Need help with bicep exercises

faceman · 25-01-2012 11:06am #1

Seemed to have hit a wall with some of my weight training, namely my biceps.

A bit of background, due to injury I had to about 6 months off from weight training last year but I have been back in the swing of things a while now.

But I seem to have hit a wall with my arms. I dont seem to have any muscle pain the day after despite me pushing myself.

My schedule for weight training is 3 days a week with cardio days in between:

Session 1: Shoulders / Triceps
Session 2: Chest / Biceps
Session 3: Back / Legs

So on chest / bicep day at the present my workout looks something like this (after warm up and press ups)

* Bench press
* Incline bench press
* Cable crossover
* Bicep curls
* cable bicep curls
And if I have energy left I lash in concentration curls too.

Depending on availability in the gym, sometimes its with free weights, sometimes its on machines.

Essentially I do 4-5 sets per exercise, the first set being a warm up with light weight and then i increase weight per set aiming for 8 to 10 reps.

Any tips/advice/constructive help?

finfinfin · 25-01-2012 11:13am

try start with the heaviest weight for 3sets.say 3x12,then try another set,you should be feeling it now.lift slightly lighter weights for 12 reps.then drop it again for 2 more sets.this should hurt and you'll see an improvement in a few weeks.I'm no expert but i've been trying this now a few weeks and I'm noticing improvements.

start heavy til you fail,go a bit lighter for 2 sets,then lighter again for another set.should tire you out.

marathonic · 25-01-2012 11:35am

What do you do on the other days? I'm currently on a Starting Strength style routine but will be switching to a split in the next month or two.

At the moment, the only direct bicep work I do is with 0.6kg weights (also known as pints)...

Ray Mond · 25-01-2012 11:47am

Chins pull ups, heavy pulling on back day eg, bent over row bb and db, hammer curls

john_cappa · 25-01-2012 11:52am

Training program looks gash to me mate.

A full session on shoulders and triceps. Two tiny muscle groups. Then a full session on back and legs, the two biggest muscle groups?

john_cappa · 25-01-2012 11:53am

Also muscle pain (DOMs) does not equal growth or progress.

faceman · 25-01-2012 11:58am

finfinfin wrote: »

try start with the heaviest weight for 3sets.say 3x12,then try another set,you should be feeling it now.lift slightly lighter weights for 12 reps.then drop it again for 2 more sets.this should hurt and you'll see an improvement in a few weeks.I'm no expert but i've been trying this now a few weeks and I'm noticing improvements.

start heavy til you fail,go a bit lighter for 2 sets,then lighter again for another set.should tire you out.

Will give this a stab, thanks.

marathonic wrote: »

What do you do on the other days?

on the other days:

Shoulders / Triceps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj7Z1FTRMww

* "Funk Roberts Crazy 28's" (see video above, 3 sets)
* Military press
* Clean and Jerk
* Shrugs
* Cable tricep pushdown
* Cable tricep overhead extension (ironically I have no issues with my triceps, they hurt like hell the day after!)

Back / Legs
* Assisted pull up (im not strong enough to do it unassisted)
* Lat pulldown
* barbell bent over row
* Bent over row
* leg machines x3
* might throw in a bicep exercise if I have time

Days Im not doing weights Im doing cardio.

As with chest/bicep day, I generally do 4-5 sets where 1st set is light warm up.
I forgot to mention that come the 4th/5th set, I often can manage no more than 5-6 reps.

Parsley · 25-01-2012 12:14pm

one thing i find with working biceps is a need for high intensity - the biceps recover fairly quickly between sets, so don't take too much of a break. really hammer them (also, try hammer curls). contract and stretch them as much as possible at the ends of the ROM, flex/pose them between sets, and stretch them well after you're done. another idea would be putting them first in the session so you can put all your energy into them.

finfinfin · 25-01-2012 12:22pm

I made us this term but I really do find the "heaviest lift first and drop weights til you fail" approach brilliant.I use it in all my weight training days.i find it great.I use it for all exercises.you'll notice a little increase in what you can lift every few weeks which I find great too.for some exercise like when I do military press first I can do 5/6 sets of 8-10,then I do upright rows,usually 5sets,press behind neck,5 sets then I do Arnie presses and 3 set I'm knackered!I'd do 4/5 sets of 8 of bicep curls with a barbell but between each set I'd hold the bar down by my waist for a count of 8 before I start next set.I don't drop the weight but if you feel like you should be lifting heavier weights but you can't don't.its all about the burn and good form.I'd then do 3sets of 10 dumbell curls and 3 sets of 10 hammer curls.dropping the weights each time.

I saw the barbell curl hold between reps thing on the telly.some bodybuilding dude called Dean wish a dodgy eye was doing it and he's strong and ripped so I said I'd try it.

for the finisher1pick us a pair of resistance bands or bring a pair from home if you got them,stand on band with legs wide for a good resistance?then set the stopwatch for a minute and bicep curl them the whole way!no cheating!fully up and down for 1 min fast as you can.

this should put you in plenty of pain.try it once.

john_cappa · 25-01-2012 12:46pm

finfinfin wrote: »

this should put you in plenty of pain.try it once.

And is this a good thing?

finfinfin · 25-01-2012 12:50pm

john_cappa wrote: »

finfinfin wrote: »

this should put you in plenty of pain.try it once.

And is this a good thing?

sorry.pain was bad choice of word.you should feel the burn well into the next day.pain is never good.

john_cappa · 25-01-2012 1:52pm

finfinfin wrote: »

you should feel the burn well into the next day

DOMs is not indicative of growth or progress.

e.g.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0838.2002.10178.x/full

finfinfin · 25-01-2012 2:23pm

john_cappa wrote: »

finfinfin wrote: »

you should feel the burn well into the next day

DOMs is not indicative of growth or progress.

e.g.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0838.2002.10178.x/full

it works for me,it may work for faceman.

mannequinhands · 25-01-2012 2:35pm

I find hammer and preacher curls great. Id try get 2 3 x4 and maybe 1 3x3 exercises in on biceps if possible even if your tired and lifting lighter . Also try and avoid the cable machine if possible nothing beats free weights when it comes to the biceps ( i know this is not always possible )

BraziliaNZ · 25-01-2012 3:28pm

I find all your muscles only get bigger really in relation to everything else. Try less reps and more weight, on everything.
Like yesterday I did dumbbell bench press for chest and did 4 sets of 6,6,5,5, but it was with the heaviest dumbbells they have there, so I can feel it today.

I don't do much bicep work but from doing back work and pull ups etc I can curl quite heavy when I want to, so just try and get stronger on the core stuff like benchpress, back work, and squats, and you should see your arms getting stronger.

Doctor_Socks · 25-01-2012 4:14pm

The one thing I found helpful for arm size was weighted chinups. When you can do your bodyweight with another 20kg for 8-10 reps you should have nothing to complain about in relation to your bicep size!

d-gal · 25-01-2012 4:51pm

john_cappa wrote: »

Training program looks gash to me mate.

A full session on shoulders and triceps. Two tiny muscle groups. Then a full session on back and legs, the two biggest muscle groups?

True but it's up to the OP to decide what he wants to put most emphasis into. Majority of people going for image do not care about their legs and as you can see by his program, he doesn't put it as a priority. I woudn't call it a big session either as the legs are just a few machines. If it was deads, squats, front squat and leg press then recovery may be an issue.

john_cappa wrote: »

Also muscle pain (DOMs) does not equal growth or progress.

No but it does give a people a bit of an indication that they worked hard the day before and in a 'bodybuilding' program there will be a fair chance it will happen regularly enough

Brian? · 25-01-2012 6:09pm

You say your arms are lagging, why do you think that . I think youre being impatient Get stronger at the big lifts like chins, rows, presses etc and put on some weight.

Stop worrying about the minutae.

Your program needs structure as well, right now it I all over the place. That lack of structure is holding you back.

Brian? · 25-01-2012 6:16pm

d-gal wrote: »

john_cappa wrote: »

Training program looks gash to me mate.

A full session on shoulders and triceps. Two tiny muscle groups. Then a full session on back and legs, the two biggest muscle groups?

True but it's up to the OP to decide what he wants to put most emphasis into. Majority of people going for image do not care about their legs and as you can see by his program, he doesn't put it as a priority. I woudn't call it a big session either as the legs are just a few machines. If it was deads, squats, front squat and leg press then recovery may be an issue.

You can't condone a program that gives a day to back and legs though surely. I know everyone has different goals but that's just stupid.

faceman · 25-01-2012 8:51pm

briankeating wrote: »

Your program needs structure as well, right now it I all over the place. That lack of structure is holding you back.

john_cappa wrote: »

Training program looks gash to me mate.

A full session on shoulders and triceps. Two tiny muscle groups. Then a full session on back and legs, the two biggest muscle groups?

I'd welcome feedback and your suggested changes on the program and structure. I'm no expert, hence my questions.

(FWIW, my current program is an evolution of one I started via a PT in the gym 2 years ago.)

john_cappa · 25-01-2012 11:23pm

faceman wrote: »

I'd welcome feedback and your suggested changes on the program and structure. I'm no expert, hence my questions.

(FWIW, my current program is an evolution of one I started via a PT in the gym 2 years ago.)

You currently train 3 days a week so what I would suggest is....

Day 1 Legs + shoulders
Either Squats or leg press 4-5 working sets
Stiff leg dead lift or machine curl 4-5 working sets
Calf raises 3 working sets

Military press or seated dumbell press 4-5 working sets
If you are able then do some of the raises you have been doing. My current favorite is side lateral with full range of motion (start my your sides and end up about your head with palms facing each other)

Day 2 Back and Bi
Deadlifts (you dont have to but they are the best mass builder IMO)
Barbell row or dumbell row 4-5 working sets
T bar row/Close grip cable row 4-5 sets
Lateral pull downs/wide grip chins 4 sets
Close grip pull downs (a fav of mine) 4 sets

Pull ups 4 sets
Then some hammer curls or what ever.

Day 3 Chest + Tri
Barbell or dumbell press 4-5 working sets
Dumbell flies 4-5 sets
Cable cross over 3 sets

Skull crushers or close grip bench 4-5 sets
Can finish with some rope push downs.

Something similar to that is what I would suggest?! Dont be afraid to change it up but keep the overall structure. A day rest between each day would be good also.

Remember your body grows as a unit. So doing loads and loads on one body part will not make it explode in size. A balance varied workout is best

d-gal · 25-01-2012 11:29pm

briankeating wrote: »

You can't condone a program that gives a day to back and legs though surely. I know everyone has different goals but that's just stupid.

It is stupid but a lot of people want to focus on chest/shoulders/arms coz that's what people see in an image. They don't care about legs and the back isn't usually a priority either.

faceman wrote: »

I'd welcome feedback and your suggested changes on the program and structure. I'm no expert, hence my questions.

(FWIW, my current program is an evolution of one I started via a PT in the gym 2 years ago.)

Usually a person that brings up biceps is more concerned about image and getting bigger. Strength is not too much of a priority.
If you want to continue with a 'bodybuilding' program then just split it into either
4 days: Chest and biceps / Shoulder and triceps / legs / back
or
3 days: Chest, shoulders and triceps / legs / back and biceps
Lower your reps to between 6-8 and it will be an improvement

You could just do a basic strength program and focus on some main lifts of bench, squat, deads, shoulder press and bent over row. Heavy reps of 3-5

PS I pray your PT is not a PT anymore.

itsallaboutheL · 25-01-2012 11:30pm

briankeating wrote: »

You say your arms are lagging, why do you think that . I think youre being impatient Get stronger at the big lifts like chins, rows, presses etc and put on some weight.

Stop worrying about the minutae.

Your program needs structure as well, right now it I all over the place. That lack of structure is holding you back.

I have no arms and i've always benched/rowed/pulled blah blah blah

Moar Curlz

d-gal · 25-01-2012 11:33pm

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I have no arms and i've always benched/rowed/pulled blah blah blah

Moar Curlz

True if you want bigger biceps then do biceps, simples

TheStickyBandit · 26-01-2012 12:50am

I find if you do some "21's" or "super sevens" (I've heard them been called all kinds of things) at the end of a bicep workout you really feel the burn. I try to do them as much as I can as they still shock the life outta me, plus if you're concerned about having the 't-shirt' muscles doing this excercise gives you an insane pump in your arms.

Either use an EZ bar or a straight bar on a cable machine.
Sometimes I'd do drop sets on a cable machine i.e 21x6plates,21x4plates,21x2plates (this is awesome for getting a serious pump)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTPso5wTS8E

Brian? · 26-01-2012 1:00am

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

briankeating wrote: »

You say your arms are lagging, why do you think that . I think youre being impatient Get stronger at the big lifts like chins, rows, presses etc and put on some weight.

Stop worrying about the minutae.

Your program needs structure as well, right now it I all over the place. That lack of structure is holding you back.

I have no arms and i've always benched/rowed/pulled blah blah blah

Moar Curlz

You know well I didnt say no curls. I do curls, everyone who wants decent arms should. I just meant that spending too much time doing curls is a waste of time.

Hanley · 26-01-2012 9:34am

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I have no arms and i've always benched/rowed/pulled blah blah blah

Moar Curlz

100% this.

Heavy tricep work is fantastic for general arm size too.

john_cappa · 26-01-2012 11:18am

Hanley wrote: »

100% this.

Heavy tricep work is fantastic for general arm size too.

Tricep work is far more fun as well.

Skull crushers, Close grip bench, tricep dumbell press, dips!

Have been done alot of skull crushers lately. Gonna start back on some CGBP if my wrists allow it.

Duck's hoop · 26-01-2012 1:38pm

What do you guys reckon on working arms three times a week, at the end of a session?

If I've time I've recently been throwing in a few sets of curls and dips after chest and back, with more varied and extended movements/sets on a shoulder day.

Is this counter-productive?

john_cappa · 26-01-2012 2:03pm

Your arms are worked in every session anyway unless you do a legs exclusive day.

You can do all the variations of curls and rope push downs you want but to build a decent set of arms you need plenty of pressing (bench pressing, overhead pressing, close grip pressing) and plenty of pulling (all types of rows and pulls ups).

Duck's hoop · 26-01-2012 2:09pm

I do all the pushing and pulling I'm able for. Just recently been throwing in more direct arm work.

Dohnny Jepp · 26-01-2012 2:13pm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/incline-dumbbell-curl

I've only started doing these recently, and i get serious burn in my biceps

dario28 · 26-01-2012 3:00pm

TheStickyBandit wrote: »

if you're concerned about having the 't-shirt' muscles

Classic stuff

Deffo - Phrase of the week award , "Hi , I like your tshirt muscles !"

JJayoo · 26-01-2012 3:57pm

I have never experienced bicep doms

papa L am i broke

rubadub · 26-01-2012 5:33pm

JJayoo wrote: »

I have never experienced bicep doms papa L am i broke

I think I have only got bicep DOMS from doing weighted negative only chinups. I have done negative only curls a fair few times but no real DOMS from them. Maybe I just was pushing myself further with the chins, negative only reps can be disturbingly easy to do, and negatives generally give more doms.

Brian? · 26-01-2012 6:25pm

rubadub wrote: »

I think I have only got bicep DOMS from doing weighted negative only chinups. I have done negative only curls a fair few times but no real DOMS from them. Maybe I just was pushing myself further with the chins, negative only reps can be disturbingly easy to do, and negatives generally give more doms.

I've gotten it from "running the rack" on a cable machine., basically drop sets. Starting with heavyest weight I can do for 12 reps, drop the weight and immediatly do max reps with that weight repeated down to lowest weight on the stack.

Did that once a week for a couple of months, can't say it did much though.

link_2007 · 26-01-2012 6:37pm

briankeating wrote: »

I've gotten it from "running the rack" on a cable machine., basically drop sets. Starting with heavyest weight I can do for 12 reps, drop the weight and immediatly do max reps with that weight repeated down to lowest weight on the stack.

Did that once a week for a couple of months, can't say it did much though.

I do the same but with dumbells and find it helps.

Hanley · 26-01-2012 8:51pm

I find when I pour petrol on my arms and lash a match at them I get a great burn in my biceps.

Mellor · 27-01-2012 5:06am

faceman wrote: »

But I seem to have hit a wall with my arms. I dont seem to have any muscle pain the day after despite me pushing myself.

Forget about muscle pain, its not an indicator of anything other than sore muscles. I only get it after a new movement or one i haven't used in a while.

Session 1: Shoulders / Triceps
Session 2: Chest / Biceps
Session 3: Back / Legs

This is something I'd switch around too. Back and legs are both v.draining, I wouldn't like them together.
I'd personally do tri's with chest, as they are a synergist in a lot of chest movements.
Similarly, a lot of back pulling movements are involving biceps also.
That leaves shoulders and legs together, which can be completely isolated from each other, or trained together with push press, thrusters, jerks etc

john_cappa · 27-01-2012 11:25am

Mellor wrote: »

Forget about muscle pain, its not an indicator of anything other than sore muscles. I only get it after a new movement or one i haven't used in a while.

This is something I'd switch around too. Back and legs are both v.draining, I wouldn't like them together.
I'd personally do tri's with chest, as they are a synergist in a lot of chest movements.
Similarly, a lot of back pulling movements are involving biceps also.
That leaves shoulders and chest together, which can be completely isolated from each other, or trained together with push press, thrusters, jerks etc

You mean that leaves legs and shoulders!

drdeadlift · 27-01-2012 11:48am

Been doing chest and shoulder together for the past few months.Savage gains..

Mellor · 27-01-2012 12:06pm

john_cappa wrote:

You mean that leaves legs and shoulders!

Yeah, thats what I meant. Which is why I said thruster etc

Doing that all day.

BraziliaNZ · 27-01-2012 12:26pm

drdeadlift wrote: »

Been doing chest and shoulder together for the past few months.Savage gains..

But if I did bench press and then incline bench press for e.g., I would barely be able to lift anything on shoulder press. Why would you do them together?

BlueIsland · 27-01-2012 12:33pm

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/incline-dumbbell-curl

I've only started doing these recently, and i get serious burn in my biceps

Is there anyway certain words be banned from forum...particularly BURN!?

drdeadlift · 27-01-2012 12:34pm

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But if I did bench press and then incline bench press for e.g., I would barely be able to lift anything on shoulder press. Why would you do them together?

Honestly im happier training three days per week,i make good gains and im not in constant recovery mode.Aswell as this my shoulder training isnt exactly superhardcore as im training carefully as not to piss off any tendons in my right shoulder.

john_cappa · 27-01-2012 12:40pm

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But if I did bench press and then incline bench press for e.g., I would barely be able to lift anything on shoulder press. Why would you do them together?

It is a popular split. Not one I like though.

Ideally you should alternate each week which you do first direct shoulders work or direct chest work so neither are getting neglected.

john_cappa · 27-01-2012 12:41pm

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah, thats what I meant. Which is why I said thruster etc

Doing that all day.

Thats is my preferred split also. Though I train each separately in any session. .

drdeadlift · 27-01-2012 12:47pm

john_cappa wrote: »

It is a popular split. Not one I like though.

Ideally you should alternate each week which you do first direct shoulders work or direct chest work so neither are getting neglected.

I don't see the need to alternate.

Need help with bicep exercises

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