Help to improve tyre grip

richfly · 30-01-2012 07:27PM #1

Hi i drive a toyota corolla saloon, can i get advice on what tyres i should use to improve grip and handling. I notice in the wet the car can slide a little on cornering. Any help would be great.

TestTransmission · 30-01-2012 07:29PM

What tyres do you currently have?How is the thread?

Vicxas · 30-01-2012 07:31PM

My Corolla slides a bit in wet weather too, and my tyres are practically new.

vectra · 30-01-2012 07:31PM

How hard are you pushing it into the corners

richfly · 30-01-2012 07:44PM

They are the stardard tyres, dont push it that much, going round a roundabout in the wet at about 20 and i can feel it slide abit.

Maybe its just me im not sure, if i put wider tyres on it would that help?

vectra · 30-01-2012 07:46PM

richfly wrote: »

They are the stardard tyres, dont push it that much, going round a roundabout in the wet at about 20 and i can feel it slide abit.

Maybe its just me im not sure, if i put wider tyres on it would that help?

You may have standard size tyres on it but what make/model are they?
Going wider and staying cheap is of no use really.
You would need to buy a premium tyre.

30-01-2012 07:47PM

TestTransmission wrote: »

What tyres do you currently have?....................

richfly wrote: »

They are the stardard tyres..........

In all fairness how are we meant to know what the standard tyres on a Corolla are? What make are they? Are are four the same? How much thread is on them?

CJhaughey · 30-01-2012 07:53PM

Wider tyres don't put any more rubber on the road, they change the shape of the contact patch from long and narrow to short and wide.
Contact patch size is a function of tyre pressure and weight.
Wider tyres can actually aquaplane more than narrow tyres.
What brand model and size of tyre do you have on the car?
What pressure are you running in them front and back?

kerten · 30-01-2012 07:53PM

RoverJames wrote: »

In all fairness how are we meant to know what the standard tyres on a Corolla are? What make are they? Are are four the same? How much thread is on them?

and have you checked pressure of tyres recently ?

richfly · 30-01-2012 07:58PM

Sorry guys just had a look: make passio 165/70 R14
All 4 in good condition

JJJJNR · 30-01-2012 07:59PM

Sounds like your rear tyres are either more worn than the front or you have sub standard ones i.e. wanli, sunny on the rears.

Senna · 30-01-2012 08:01PM

richfly wrote: »

Sorry guys just had a look: make passio 165/70 R14
All 4 in good condition

There's your problem, buy some decent tyres.

richfly · 30-01-2012 08:06PM

Sound guys thanks for help will just use till they need replacing.
Thanks again.

dar83 · 30-01-2012 08:07PM

Those tyres seem to be ridiculously cheap. I'm surprised you're getting any grip at all on them in the wet...

€30 a corner is scary cheap for a tyre.

Please Kill Me · 30-01-2012 08:08PM

Senna wrote: »

There's your problem, buy some decent tyres.

Absolutely! Problem solved! :pac:

vectra · 30-01-2012 08:11PM

richfly wrote: »

Sound guys thanks for help will just use till they need replacing.
Thanks again.

Keep going on those and it may be more than the tyres need replacing.. I hope nobody in an expensive car brakes suddenly in front of you in the wet weather..

Leprechaun77 · 30-01-2012 08:12PM

richfly wrote: »

?....will just use till they need replacing.

just make sure it's the tyres that need replacement next, and not the car...if it's slippy at 20 mph, albeit on a roundabout, what will they be like at higher speeds if you have to swerve/brake....not worth the risk IMO

richfly · 30-01-2012 08:16PM

dar83 wrote: »

Those tyres seem to be ridiculously cheap. I'm surprised you're getting any grip at all on them in the wet...

€30 a corner is scary cheap for a tyre.

How to do know they are €30?

dar83 · 30-01-2012 08:19PM

I just used a quick Google and averaged the price I found on the first page I came across...

http://ie.febishop.eu/tyres/debica/riepa-passio_3

They don't seem to have your exact size, but similar sizes seem to be just below or above €30.

Motorist · 30-01-2012 08:22PM

I'd handle reduced grip with economy tyres - just break in advance before corners, use good anticipation of other drivers , etc. But do you reckon those things are more likely to have a blow out on a motorway ? That's my nightmare situation.

richfly · 30-01-2012 08:23PM

dar83 wrote: »

I just used a quick Google and averaged the price I found on the first page I came across...

http://ie.febishop.eu/tyres/debica/riepa-passio_3

They don't seem to have your exact size, but similar sizes seem to be just below or above €30.

Ye ok they will be changed f**k sake. Bought the car with them on it.
Thanks for that.
Just out of interest can you recommend suitble tyres for this car?

ongarite · 30-01-2012 08:28PM

Something by Bridgestone, Michelin, Dunlop, Goodyear or Vredestein.

Previous owner must have been really skimping on maintenance by putting them on.

http://camskill.co.uk/m4b0s386p0/Car_Tyres_-_MPV_Tyres_-_People_Carrier_Tyres_-_14%5C_inch_R14_inch_-_165_70_14_165_70_R_14

Looking at £40-45 pounds a tyre for the quality brands.

kerten · 30-01-2012 08:29PM

richfly wrote: »

Sorry guys just had a look: make passio 165/70 R14
All 4 in good condition

165mm wide tyre for corolla seems too narrow. I would expect at least 175 mm wide tyres even with smallest engine.

Can anyone confirm this size if it is correct for the car or not.

I changed 155/80/13 tyres to 175/65/14 ones on a yaris and it improved car's grip limits dramatically.

I expect similar effect on your car if you go for 185 mm wide tyres(proper brand of course) for this kind of tyre. 185/60/14 or 185/65/14 wouldn't affect speedometer reading and have similar diameter.

dar83 · 30-01-2012 08:29PM

If you're on a tight budget i'd even consider giving Tyreland a shout and getting some part worns off them for the time being.

Otherwise just check out www.eiretyres.com and avoid the cheap Chibese tyres. A decent set of lower end premium tyres won't be that much more expensive for the size you're after and they'll be a whole lot better in the wet.

veetwin · 30-01-2012 08:31PM

Motorist wrote: »

I'd handle reduced grip with economy tyres - just break in advance before corners, use good anticipation of other drivers , etc. But do you reckon those things are more likely to have a blow out on a motorway ? That's my nightmare situation.

Ok your nightmare situation is blowing out on a motorway where you have a good chance of avoiding any serious harm to anyone. But you can handle the reduced grip and plough into the next pedestrian/motorist who does something unpredictable for the sake of a few quid?

OK I hate people on high horses but FFS buy some decent tyres..they don't have to be top of the range firestones but there are plenty half decent tyres around for a small bit more than the cheap Chinese shoite!

SilverBell · 30-01-2012 08:32PM

richfly wrote: »

Ye ok they will be changed f**k sake.

Down boy!

richfly wrote: »

Just out of interest can you recommend suitble tyres for this car?

The KrusT 5000s are good. Highly recommended.

Leprechaun77 · 30-01-2012 08:35PM

Motorist wrote: »

I'd handle reduced grip with economy tyres - just break in advance before corners, use good anticipation of other drivers , etc. But do you reckon those things are more likely to have a blow out on a motorway ? That's my nightmare situation.

What about emergency stops...the ones you cannot plan for?.....especially in the wet.

I had to brake suddenly last week at 100kph when a load of pipes fell off a lorry and scattered all over the road....probably would have smashed into them if I had poor tyres.

richfly · 30-01-2012 08:39PM

kerten wrote: »

165mm wide tyre for corolla seems too narrow. I would expect at least 175 mm wide tyres even with smallest engine.

Can anyone confirm this size if it is correct for the car or not.

I changed 155/80/13 tyres to 175/65/14 ones on a yaris and it improved car's grip limits dramatically.

I expect similar effect on your car if you go for 185 mm wide tyres(proper brand of course) for this kind of tyre. 185/60/14 or 185/65/14 wouldn't affect speedometer reading and have similar diameter.

Would most of you guys recommend doing what this guy has done?

-Corkie- · 30-01-2012 08:42PM

richfly wrote: »

Would most of you guys recommend doing what this guy has done?

Ya definitley.

mullingar · 30-01-2012 08:43PM

There is only 1 rule about buying tyres. Don't buy cheap sh1te.

Seriously, only ever fit premium brands, part-worn premium brands are a great cheap alternative

richfly · 30-01-2012 08:47PM

Last question guys, in Galway where's the best place to get tyres?
I have gone to fastfit in the past.

Senna · 30-01-2012 09:07PM

richfly wrote: »

Last question guys, in Galway where's the best place to get tyres?
I have gone to fastfit in the past.

Phone around and get prices, most places will just give out the price of the cheapest tyre they have in that size, so ask them what make they are, then ask what premium bands they have.

Then go to www.eiretyre.ie, you'll see thread pattern, cost and a link to reviews. Or just buy some off eiretyre and get them fitted locally. Allow €40 for fitting.

30-01-2012 09:18PM

richfly wrote: »

Last question guys, in Galway where's the best place to get tyres?
........

http://cloonbootyres.com/

I can recommend that chap

CiniO · 30-01-2012 09:21PM

Senna wrote: »

There's your problem, buy some decent tyres.

I assume they are Debica Passio.
They are not the top brand tyres, but anyway they are way better than most Chineese crap.
Shouldn't make car skid at 20km/h on roundabout on wet.

OP - did you check tyre pressure?
How old are your tyres? (you can find a 4 digit symbol on them with manufacture week and year).

Motorist · 30-01-2012 09:23PM

veetwin wrote: »

Ok your nightmare situation is blowing out on a motorway where you have a good chance of avoiding any serious harm to anyone. But you can handle the reduced grip and plough into the next pedestrian/motorist who does something unpredictable for the sake of a few quid?

OK I hate people on high horses but FFS buy some decent tyres..they don't have to be top of the range firestones but there are plenty half decent tyres around for a small bit more than the cheap Chinese shoite!

Whats with this needless attack suggesting I am in some way endangering other road users?

My tyres are just fine. Yes I can handle reduced grip. Just because it is reduced compared to premium tyres doesnt mean it is dangerously low. I've dealt with plenty of unpredictable motorists/pedestrians over the last year and still maintain a 7 year accident free period. The car went through the NCT also with these tyres.

Bit of cop on, good anticipation, adjusting speed for traffic and weather conditions goes along way you know.

CiniO · 30-01-2012 09:29PM

CJhaughey wrote: »

Wider tyres don't put any more rubber on the road, they change the shape of the contact patch from long and narrow to short and wide.
Contact patch size is a function of tyre pressure and weight.
Wider tyres can actually aquaplane more than narrow tyres.
What brand model and size of tyre do you have on the car?
What pressure are you running in them front and back?

I wouldn't agree that wider tyres don't put any more rubber on the road.
Of course on wider tyres will be shorter, but not as much shorter as tyre is wider.

However your point is fair, that wider tyres, won't give you any more grip really. It's because friction between tyre and surface remains the same, no matter what is the contact patch size.

mm_surf · 30-01-2012 09:33PM

CiniO wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that wider tyres don't put any more rubber on the road.
Of course on wider tyres will be shorter, but not as much shorter as tyre is wider.

However your point is fair, that wider tyres, won't give you any more grip really. It's because friction between tyre and surface remains the same, no matter what is the contact patch size.

Contact patch size is exactly the same, regardless of width.

If the car's weight & tyre pressures are unchanged, the contact patch is exactly the same.

M.

Motorist · 30-01-2012 09:37PM

Leprechaun77 wrote: »

What about emergency stops...the ones you cannot plan for?.....especially in the wet.

I had to brake suddenly last week at 100kph when a load of pipes fell off a lorry and scattered all over the road....probably would have smashed into them if I had poor tyres.

The tyres I have are legal. I trust that the minimum standards put in place in law are sufficient, that the NCT testers who I paid good money to who passed the car are competent and professional and that the well- known retailer who put the tyres on is equally professional. I cant mitigate for situations any further outside of that.

"What if" situations always arise in every area of life - you do what you can to reduce risk level to an acceptable level. You could equally have been wearing a motorcycle crash helmet also and only been travelling at 10kmp/h - but you chose to travel at 100kmp/h and accept some risk from a practical standpoint and accept the inherent risk that comes with that.

If premium tyres have such a dramatic impact on accident risk compared to economy tyres (my tyres were around 55 euro each), why don't insurance companies reduce premiums for having premium tyres?

CiniO · 30-01-2012 09:42PM

Motorist wrote: »

The tyres I have are legal. I trust that the minimum standards put in place in law are sufficient, that the NCT testers who I paid good money to who passed the car are competent and professional and that the known retailer who put the tyres on is equally professional. I cant mitigate for situations any further outside of that.

Did you know that Titanic also had more than legally required amount of lifeboats onboard?

Unfortunatelly it wasn't sufficient even for half amount of passengers ;(

CiniO · 30-01-2012 09:46PM

mm_surf wrote: »

Contact patch size is exactly the same, regardless of width.

If the car's weight & tyre pressures are unchanged, the contact patch is exactly the same.

M.

I don't have anything to prove it, but I really doubt it.

Just take extreme situations for example.
Put a racing bicycle wheel on a car from one side, and something like 405/25 - R20 tyre on the other side.
Put them both to the same pressure.
There is no chance they will both have the same contact patch area.

Motorist · 30-01-2012 09:49PM

CiniO wrote: »

Did you know that Titanic also had more than legally required amount of lifeboats onboard?

Unfortunatelly it wasn't sufficient even for half amount of passengers ;(

There were around 5 major contributing factors to the loss of life on Titanic. No accident has just one major contributing factor.

Maritime law was subsequently changed to increase lifeboat capacity along with several other key recommendations relating to how ships operate at night, in adverse weather conditions, use of telegram machines, sending out of mayday signals, safety protocols etc. Similarly the Road Traffic Act's have also continuously evolved from analysis of accidents, studies carried out, expert recommendations, best practice, etc and they will continue to evolve.

30-01-2012 09:50PM

Hi I know I'm late to the game here, but I have the same car as the OP and the front does slip quite easily in the wet. Though the upgrade in tyres will help, on this particular model, it will still slip more than most.

CiniO · 30-01-2012 09:53PM

Motorist wrote: »

Do you think passengers shouldn't travel on boats that meet legal requirements?

There were around 5 major contributing factors to the loss of life on Titanic.

Maritime law was subsequently changed to increase lifeboat capacity along with several other key recommendations relating to how ships operate at night, in adverse weather conditions, use of telegram machines, sending out of mayday signals, safety protocols etc. Similarly the Road Traffic Act's have also continuously evolved from analysis of accidents, best practice, etc.

The message here is, that this Road Traffic Act which you are talking about, permits anyone to drive on cheapest Chinese made tyres with only 1.6mm thread left on them in any weather condition including snow.

I had a chance to put a set of Chinese tyres into my car, and I know they provide very very very little grip in virtually any conditions.

Surprisingly since then I'm using Debica tyres on my car, and the grip is way better.
That's why I asked OP if he's sure that his tyres are allright with tyre pressure or if they aren't just too old.

Motorist · 30-01-2012 09:56PM

CiniO wrote: »

The message here is, that this Road Traffic Act which you are talking about, permits anyone to drive on cheapest Chinese made tyres with only 1.6mm thread left on them in any weather condition including snow.

I had a chance to put a set of Chinese tyres into my car, and I know they provide very very very little grip in virtually any conditions.

Surprisingly since then I'm using Debica tyres on my car, and the grip is way better.
That's why I asked OP if he's sure that his tyres are allright with tyre pressure or if they aren't just too old.

Any tyre will have dramatically reduced grip in snow. If you drove around at the speed limit in some snow conditions you could be prosecuted for dangerous driving or careless driving. Once again you adjust your driving to the conditions, same as you slow down dramatically in wet conditions.

You're exceeding legal requirements to reduce what your perceive as unacceptable risk. Equally you could choose to only drive after 8 hours sleep, reduce your speed by 20%, only drive during day light hours and dry conditions, avoid driving at weekends when accident rates are higher, etc.

sean1141 · 30-01-2012 10:01PM

Motorist wrote: »

Any tyre will have dramatically reduced grip in snow. If you drove around at the speed limit in some snow conditions you could be prosecuted for dangerous driving or careless driving. Once again you adjust your driving to the conditions, same as you slow down dramatically in wet conditions.

have you ever driven the same car with premium tyres and then driven it with cheap chineese tyres?

Motorist · 30-01-2012 10:03PM

sean1141 wrote: »

have you ever driven the same car with premium tyres and then driven it with cheap chineese tyres?

The tyres I have were 55 each and 220 for the lot. The particular guy I went to said his cheapest were 40 euro each and the premium ones were 80 each which was too much for me.

I havent driven with the cheapest Chinese tyres.

sean1141 · 30-01-2012 10:05PM

Motorist wrote: »

The tyres I have were 55 each and 220 for the lot. The particular guy I went to said his cheapest were 40 euro each and the premium ones were 80 each which was too much for me.

I havent driven with the cheapest Chinese tyres.

what brand are your tyres as a matter of interest?

Masi · 30-01-2012 10:07PM

Sacramento wrote: »

Hi I know I'm late to the game here, but I have the same car as the OP and the front does slip quite easily in the wet. Though the upgrade in tyres will help, on this particular model, it will still slip more than most.

Have you guys thought about changing the car????;);)

30-01-2012 10:08PM

kerten wrote: »

Can anyone confirm this size if it is correct for the car or not.

Corolla should have 175/65

CiniO · 30-01-2012 10:12PM

Motorist wrote: »

Any tyre will have dramatically reduced grip in snow. If you drove around at the speed limit in some snow conditions you could be prosecuted for dangerous driving or careless driving.

I wouldn't call it dramatically.
If you have proper winter tyres, you can get very descent grip on snow.
Keeping 80km/h on snow should not be a problem with good winter tyres and bit of skills.

Leprechaun77 · 30-01-2012 10:29PM

Motorist wrote: »

The tyres I have are legal. I trust that the minimum standards put in place in law are sufficient, that the NCT testers who I paid good money to who passed the car are competent and professional......

These tyres are indeed 'legal'. It is my personal opinion that the minimum standards set down in law at the moment are insufficient, particularly the area to do with tread depth. At one stage it was 'legal' to drive without a seatbelt....this did not make it safe. As time goes by, laws change when data becomes available to show the change is warranted.

It has been proven for example that braking distances increases significantly once tread depth goes below 3.0mm. It has also been proven in many recent independent tests that premium tyres outperform budget tyres in all areas from handling to stopping distances (with the very odd exception). I believe it is only a matter of time before these rules are amended.

I am not saying everyone should have Michelins on their car, but with due regard to affordability I think you should research which tyres suit your car and driving style and not be the miser when it comes to this.

Help to improve tyre grip

Comments