RaboDirect Pro 12 - General Season Discussion

profitius · 20-02-2012 11:50PM

Looking at the Pro 12 league table there are some surprise stats. One stand out stat is that in 15 games the Ospreys have picked up 1 bonus point!

Zuffer · 21-02-2012 02:44AM

I wouldn't like to see the Rabo go above 12 teams. The fixture list - between internationals, H Cup and league - is already congested. I don't see where the extra games would fit. The French top 14 runs into June to accommodate the extra fixtures and top 6 playoff. I doubt anyone on here thinks that doing the same for the Rabo would be a good idea.

Digifriendly · 21-02-2012 12:22PM

Idea of expanding the Rabo league is simply not on due to more games having to be fitted in and hence even more travel. Welsh regions are already feeling the squeeze and in tight economic times best to leave alone.

mareegoo · 21-02-2012 02:21PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

Thought about this before. I think the Irish Exiles could be included and based in London. Traditionally it has been a "5th" province, and even briefly competed in the inter-provincial championship (and not to be confused with London Irish - a completely seperate entity).

With the mass exodes of Irish emegration, there could be a decent fan base in London and surrounding area, and if the IRFU are so concerned with making the current set-up play Irish players with crazy regulations of at least 3 in every position (which happens in most cases anyway, but instead of vetoing signings in a certain position, which they already had the power to do, the new rules are completely over the top...)

Also, there is room for another Irish team, Connacht have not been financially viable for some time, and hence were not given full province stature for a while, which seems to be changing, a London team could, in theory, be financialy viable and could sign up many of the Irish players who are released and / or head of to the Aviva premiership to build an initial squad, with maybe 4 players released from Leinster, Munster and Ulster to help them initially, and make sure to keep as many Irish players playing and under IRFU player management control.... just an idea..

I also think that there is further scope for another Scottish team and in a number of years, 2 more Italian teams.

I don't think there's any scope for another Welsh team at the moment though, they are in quite a mess in many respects as it is...

Definitely room for expansion down the line though. I think the 5th Irish team could be really interesting though...

Connacht were left behind discriminately as they never got equal footing whilst the other provinces pillaged us and established and grew their own brand we are only catching up now and pretty much off our own bat I might add. Connacht will be a viable financial entity.

pixelburp · 21-02-2012 02:41PM

If the Rabo expanded, it wouldn't just be a question of the fixture list, but the subject of some form of promotion & relegation would surely become very relevant once it hit the 14/16/18 size. And that would knock expansion on its head because you'd have turkeys voting for Christmas then. Couldn't see the Italian or Scottish unions voting for that. Or even the Welsh.

My own suggestion would be that the knockout stages were extended into a quarter-semi-final format, with the 4 extra teams coming from a 'B' league of sorts, made up of invited & selected teams from Spain, Georgia, Russia et al. That way the smaller nations' clubs get a shot at glory, with the best having a chance against the top league. At the same time, for those in the Rabo who make the knockouts it just means one extra game to schedule, and that wouldn't seem as crazy as catering for 3/4 extra rounds of matches.

Ok in reality you could get some scary mismatches, but I'd say over time you'd see a core group of 'super' teams from the B league, which could make the Rabo that bit more competitive.

phog · 21-02-2012 02:51PM

mareegoo wrote: »

Connacht were left behind discriminately as they never got equal footing whilst the other provinces pillaged us and established and grew their own brand we are only catching up now and pretty much off our own bat I might add. Connacht will be a viable financial entity.

There's more than a grain of truth in your post, the other 3 provinces certainly got a bigger slice of the cake. They were also lucky in that they were better established for the Celtic League as they had a couple of seasons in the H/Cup and had built a fan base on the H/C which is still far more attractive to the supporters.

It's not that many years back when Munster V Leinster in an Interpro game in Garryowen attracted fewer supporters than the average AIL games back then.

I hope that Conancht will become a real 4th province and be competitive in both the Pro12 and H/Cup, imagine Munster, Ulster and Leinster fighting out for the last Irish spot in the Pro12 table to ensure a passage to the H/C.

Winters · 21-02-2012 02:57PM

I would like to think that the likes of Spanish, Portuguese, German, Georgian and Russian clubs should all be accommodated in the Challenge Cup.

Given the size of Italy and its playing numbers could we not expect to see it outgrow their two professional teams in the next 5 years? If the Pro 12 were to expand I can only imagine that's where we'll see it.

[Jackass] · 21-02-2012 03:54PM

mareegoo wrote: »

Connacht were left behind discriminately as they never got equal footing whilst the other provinces pillaged us and established and grew their own brand we are only catching up now and pretty much off our own bat I might add. Connacht will be a viable financial entity.

Rubbish.

Connacht received lesser funding as they were a team running in the red since the turn of professionalism who never made a cent profit and had average crowd numbers of about 1,000 at games. It's a business, not a charity.

The IRFU have taken Connacht a lot more seriously lately, and they've signed some very good players, and as for pillaged your players (my personal pet pieve statement from Connacht fans), Connacht lived off the talent (and to a certain extent still does) of the other 3 provinces, and if those provinces call some of their players home after a number of years of quality service to Connacht, that's something to be grateful for, not being "pillaged".

andrewdcs · 21-02-2012 04:24PM

Winters wrote: »

I would like to think that the likes of Spanish, Portuguese, German, Georgian and Russian clubs should all be accommodated in the Challenge Cup.

Given the size of Italy and its playing numbers could we not expect to see it outgrow their two professional teams in the next 5 years? If the Pro 12 were to expand I can only imagine that's where we'll see it.

I think it'd be bad news for all, 12 is pretty much the perfect size for a Rugby league, in terms of games per season etc. given the crazy numbers of international games that are on as well...

andrewdcs · 21-02-2012 04:25PM

phog wrote: »

There's more than a grain of truth in your post, the other 3 provinces certainly got a bigger slice of the cake. They were also lucky in that they were better established for the Celtic League as they had a couple of seasons in the H/Cup and had built a fan base on the H/C which is still far more attractive to the supporters.

It's not that many years back when Munster V Leinster in an Interpro game in Garryowen attracted fewer supporters than the average AIL games back then.

I hope that Conancht will become a real 4th province and be competitive in both the Pro12 and H/Cup, imagine Munster, Ulster and Leinster fighting out for the last Irish spot in the Pro12 table to ensure a passage to the H/C.

What was the latest on the sportsground season tickets? Its all about the weekly turnstile,

First, you get the money, then you get the weeemon then you get the pooower.

andrewdcs · 21-02-2012 04:34PM

justsomebloke wrote: »

Given that some Welsh teams are already playing 32 games, with a possibility of 39 games if they reach the finals of the Rabo, HC and LV cup I can't really see there being any scope to expand the league any more

The BnI and LV cups are really for the academy tho no? but agree waaay to much rugby at present, the S15 T14 etc. are already 2 teams to big.

Also, relegation and rugby is a complete disaster. Pro12 "franchising" is the only way to go, relegation in england and france ruins great clubs.

profitius · 21-02-2012 05:08PM

andrewdcs wrote: »

The BnI and LV cups are really for the academy tho no? but agree waaay to much rugby at present, the S15 T14 etc. are already 2 teams to big.

Also, relegation and rugby is a complete disaster. Pro12 "franchising" is the only way to go, relegation in england and france ruins great clubs.

I agree about there being too many teams. I disagree about relegation. Take the Dragons as an example. They've no fear of relegation and always look to build for the future but their lack of success means they're losing their best players.

Also the top English sides are not concerned in the least about relegation. Relegation does however make the league more interesting from a sponsorship point of view. It also allows the league below the main league to have something big to aim for so its a big help to the second tier of teams.

Podge_irl · 21-02-2012 05:29PM

andrewdcs wrote: »

The BnI and LV cups are really for the academy tho no?

LV cup is technically first teams, but realistically A teams given it takes place during international windows. The English don't much care about it, but the Welsh have some kind of fetish for playing English teams.

I disagree about relegation. Take the Dragons as an example. They've no fear of relegation and always look to build for the future but their lack of success means they're losing their best players.

I don't understand this point. If they were in danger of relegation (or actually were relegated) they'd be losing their best players a damn sight quicker.

It's an utterly pointless conversation though seeing as there is no second tier competition that could feed into the Rabo and there never will be.

profitius · 21-02-2012 05:43PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't understand this point. If they were in danger of relegation (or actually were relegated) they'd be losing their best players a damn sight quicker.

It's an utterly pointless conversation though seeing as there is no second tier competition that could feed into the Rabo and there never will be.

The point was that they're losing players anyway. There are pros and cons for relegation.

Podge_irl · 21-02-2012 05:49PM

profitius wrote: »

The point was that they're losing players anyway. There are pros and cons for relegation.

I don't see any pros unless you have a viable second tier competition, which we don't. And given the make up of the league never will in all likelihood. I really don't think it benefits any of the teams that are currently in the league with no relegation.

It adds a degree of excitement to the close season sometimes. It's much more common that the team to be relegated is known well in advance. It also tends to be the same teams yo-yoing in and out of the top tier. And it contributes to (though is by no means the sole reason for) the turgid rugby plated with great regularity in England and France.

I don't think relegation is a "disaster" by any means, but I think we're better off without it.

justsomebloke · 23-02-2012 05:29PM

For anyone bored this evening scarlets V treviso is on S4C, 7.35 KO

Tox56 · 23-02-2012 05:38PM

justsomebloke wrote: »

For anyone bored this evening scarlets V treviso is on S4C, 7.35 KO

The cure is worse than the disease.

GerM · 23-02-2012 08:57PM

Treviso off to a flyer. 14-0 up.

thomond2006 · 23-02-2012 09:01PM

GerM wrote: »

Treviso off to a flyer. 14-0 up.

wow

.ak · 23-02-2012 09:18PM

14 all going into HT...

Tox56 · 23-02-2012 09:20PM

Scarlets team who played Leinster last week are a really niggly team, now they're in it, they will almost certainly win it.

.ak · 23-02-2012 09:22PM

17-14 to Treviso HT

Big Nelly · 23-02-2012 09:49PM

.ak wrote: »

17-14 to Treviso HT

Scarlets just got try!!!

GerM · 02-03-2012 10:01PM

Jackson misses the last kick of the game to allow Ospreys an undeserved losing BP. Glasgow the better side got screwed by the referee. Played last 10 minutes pretty much with 13 men after 2 men in the bin the second of which for a dangerous tackle that was completely legitimate and the player was put to ground perfectly, completely parallel to the ground. Glasgow scrum then destroyed Ospreys on the last put in of the game and drove Ospreys right back with their scrum splintering. Referee didn't penalise but did give penalty on next phase from a trickier spot.

Good win for Glasgow though and Ospreys are looking very wobbly for the play offs now.

phog · 02-03-2012 10:12PM

Will it be three Irish in the semis this year?

profitius · 02-03-2012 10:15PM

phog wrote: »

Will it be three Irish in the semis this year?

Its looking like it. Ospreys just 2 pts ahead of Munster now for the second place spot. Munster have 2 games in hand. Ulster look like making the top 4 too.

CatFromHue · 02-03-2012 10:18PM

phog wrote: »

Will it be three Irish in the semis this year?

I think Leinster and Munster will get there all right.

Ulster have a home and an away game against the Italian teams up next followed by 3 interpros where they have to go to both Connacht and Munster. It could well go down to the last game for them whether they get in the Semis. Surely they can't win for a second time in Thomond this season though :P

durkadurka · 02-03-2012 10:37PM

Funnily enough Leinster aren't home and hosed yet. If Munster can win at the dragons and aironi then beat Leinster in thomond, then it's game on for number one seeding.

GerM · 02-03-2012 10:44PM

durkadurka wrote: »

Funnily enough Leinster aren't home and hosed yet. If Munster can win at the dragons and aironi then beat Leinster in thomond, then it's game on for number one seeding.

Yeah, pretty much think the same. Dragons winning tomorrow will make me feel a lot more comfortable but if Munster win tomorrow they're in with a great chance. They've a much easier run in and we have to go to Thomond. Losing away to Ulster and Dragons cannot be ruled out especially if we're still in the HEC and trying to focus on that. I think we'll lose in Belfast and Limerick. If Leinster top the pile, I can't see it by being more than 4 or 5 points.

phog · 02-03-2012 10:46PM

GerM wrote: »

Yeah, pretty much think the same. Dragons winning tomorrow will make me feel a lot more comfortable but if Munster win tomorrow they're in with a great chance. They've a much easier run in and we have to go to Thomond. Losing away to Ulster and Dragons cannot be ruled out especially if we're still in the HEC and trying to focus on that. I think we'll lose in Belfast and Limerick. If Leinster top the pile, I can't see it by being more than 4 or 5 points.

You mean Leinster could well lose twice in Thomond Park this season

RaboDirect Pro 12 - General Season Discussion

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