Irish player ratings against France

boynesider · 04-03-2012 05:08PM #1

That was incredibly disappointing. To go an entire half without scoring at this level is very poor, especially considering the possession we had.

What cost us in the end was a combination of a terrible refereeing performance by Pearson and some woeful individual performances on the Irish team. I know it's harsh to say it but some of our players let their teammates down badly today. Here are the ratings as I see it

Kearney 9
Bowe 8
Earls 6
D'Arcy 4 (offers nothing and hasn't done for a while)
Trimble 3 (biggest let down of all)
Sexton 5 (defensively incredible but he is capable of so much more)
Murray 7

Healy 7
Best 4
Ross 6
O'Connell 7
O'Callaghan 5
Ferris 8
O'Brien 7 (he was playing really well and was rightly perplexed at being taken off)
Heaslip 5 (turnover at the end was his best contribution but was generally below par)

Subs were okay. No one stood out apart from Reddan and Ryan. For Scotland next week I would love to see a number of changes being made. And given the intensity of the match today, for once Kidney may be forced to abandon his conservatism due to the short turnaround.

Ryan and Reddan deserve to start and I will be shocked if they don't. Apart from that, wouldn't it be great to see Zebo get a shot?

Tox56 · 04-03-2012 05:09PM

Ross deserves at least an 8.

andyman · 04-03-2012 05:10PM

Sorry, but Sexton a 5? His defence alone warrents at least a 7.

Think you're being incredibly harsh on D'Arcy as well.

andyman · 04-03-2012 05:11PM

boynesider wrote: »

Ryan and Reddan deserve to start and I will be shocked if they don't. Apart from that, wouldn't it be great to see Zebo get a shot?

Just saw this, there are more people who are deserving of a shot than Zebo.

Neil3030 · 04-03-2012 05:12PM

boynesider wrote: »

Apart from that, wouldn't it be great to see Zebo get a shot?

Not particularly.

irishbucsfan · 04-03-2012 05:14PM

Trimbles defense was very important. Came in very strong.

Why exactly did Earls get a 6 but DArcy a 4? And Sexton a 5?! Haha

mystic86 · 04-03-2012 05:15PM

andyman wrote: »

Just saw this, there are more people who are deserving of a shot than Zebo.

go on...

Spudmonkey · 04-03-2012 05:16PM

With the exception of Kearney and Bowe, those numbers just seem to have been distributed randomly.

Tox56 · 04-03-2012 05:17PM

mystic86 wrote: »

go on...

D Kearney is one that is blindingly obvious.

MungBean · 04-03-2012 05:19PM

boynesider wrote: »

Kearney 9
Bowe 8
Earls 6
D'Arcy 4 (offers nothing and hasn't done for a while)
Trimble 3 (biggest let down of all)
Sexton 5 (defensively incredible but he is capable of so much more)
Murray 7

Healy 7
Best 4
Ross 6
O'Connell 7
O'Callaghan 5
Ferris 8
O'Brien 7 (he was playing really well and was rightly perplexed at being taken off)
Heaslip 5 (turnover at the end was his best contribution but was generally below par)

I'm not sure what you were watching but theres no way in hell it was the same match as the rest of us seen.

justsomebloke · 04-03-2012 05:19PM

Tox56 wrote: »

D Kearney is one that is blindingly obvious.

And luke

irishbucsfan · 04-03-2012 05:19PM

Tox56 wrote: »

mystic86 wrote: »

go on...

D Kearney is one that is blindingly obvious.

Fitzgerald is back so I'm guessing it would be him.

Zebo is miles away at this stage.

Benny Cake · 04-03-2012 05:19PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Trimbles defense was very important. Came in very strong.

Trimbles D was good for the post part, but the missed tackle on Poitreaneau in the lead up to the French try was crucial...

whatawaster · 04-03-2012 05:20PM

Tox56 wrote: »

D Kearney is one that is blindingly obvious.

Yep, but a fit Fitzgerald is ahead of him too. I'd also rate Gilroy higher at the moment

Tigerandahalf · 04-03-2012 05:20PM

I think zebo would add something. His defence though is still vulnerable. His pace would trouble teams. We need change in the centre. Darcy has this habit of playing poor until hes nearly dropped and then produces a couple of decent games. His counter rucking today was good.
Heaslip is out of form for a while now. Time to try POM. Also DR deserves a shot in the 2nd row.
Next week is a banana skin. Scots have as good a record in Lansdowne as we have in Cardiff.
Murray injury should mean TOL getting the nod in Munster. Funny how an injury can change fortunes. Dont think Murray did cruciate. The knee would have collapsed. Id say lateral ligaments.

Chucky Norris · 04-03-2012 05:21PM

mystic86 wrote: »

go on...

ahem Andrew Conway

:p:p

mystic86 · 04-03-2012 05:22PM

Zebo ahead of Luke and Kearney for me.

Maybe Luke ahead after he gets a couple more games back from his injury.

Tox56 · 04-03-2012 05:23PM

justsomebloke wrote: »

And luke

Wasn't fully fit so didn't know whether to include him, fully fit miles ahead of the other options.

whatawaster · 04-03-2012 05:24PM

I'd have Fitzgerald ahead of Trimble based on his form before his injury. Hopefully he can stay fit now

boynesider · 04-03-2012 05:24PM

andyman wrote: »

boynesider wrote: »

Ryan and Reddan deserve to start and I will be shocked if they don't. Apart from that, wouldn't it be great to see Zebo get a shot?

Just saw this, there are more people who are deserving of a shot than Zebo.

Possibly Dave Kearney as well. And I take no pleasure in calling for Trimble to be dropped as I would have been one of his biggest advocates during the World cup, but he made so many errors today and was at fault for the French try.

whatawaster · 04-03-2012 05:26PM

boynesider wrote: »

Possibly Dave Kearney as well. And I take no pleasure in calling for Trimble to be dropped as I would have been one of his biggest advocates during the World cup, but he made so many errors today and was at fault for the French try.

I think he's deserved his chance for so long that it would be terrible to drop him after one poor performance. It wouldn't happen to plenty of other players, and if it happens to Trimble then serious questions should be asked of management

Clegg · 04-03-2012 05:28PM

A 5 for Sexton?

As other have mentioned, his defence alone warrants a 7.

Ridiculous ratings.

04-03-2012 05:29PM

i agree with what a waster trimble has been hard done by so long that it would be unfair to drop him so quickly

Fishooks12 · 04-03-2012 05:29PM

15 Rob Kearney 9/10 Easily the best 15 in world rugby when playing like that

14 Tommy Bowe 8/10 2 well taken scores, the second of which is probably one of the best he's scored for Ireland

13/12 Earls/Darcy 7/10 Thought he and Darcy were brilliant in the first half if a little at sea when things got loose defensively

11 Trimble 5/10 Like the Italian game, two many errors and a bad missed tackle that led to the French try

10 Sexton 7/10 Unbelievable in defense but should have dropped back in the 66th minute and really should have kicked the first goal

9 Murray 7/10 Answered his critics in the first half with faster delivery and huge defense but got a bit sloppy before his injury

8 Heaslip 6/10 Got through a huge amount of work but still struggling to find much space in the loose like he used to

7 SOB 7/10 His efforts on the deck should have been more rewarded but for Pearson

6 Ferris 7/10 Huge performance again, although I felt he should have kept ball in hand a bit more when out wide

5 POC 6/10

4 DOC 7/10 His first half performance was simply immense, ran out of steam in the second

3 Ross 6/10 Stood up in terms of scrummaging ability to the French front row

2 Best 5/10 An off day, bad darts

1 Healy 6/10 Like Ross scrummaged well but was lucky not to be binned

Monty Burnz · 04-03-2012 05:30PM

We urgently need a replacement for D'Arcy. Great player, but not anymore.

whatawaster · 04-03-2012 05:31PM

Kearney 10
Bowe 8
Earls 7
D'Arcy 6
Trimble 5
Sexton 8
Murray 6
Heaslip 7
O'Brien 8
Ferris 9
O'Callaghan 6
O'Connell 7
Ross 7
Best 6
Healy 7

lologram · 04-03-2012 05:32PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Kearney 10
Bowe 8
Earls 7
D'Arcy 6
Trimble 5
Sexton 8
Murray 6
Heaslip 7
O'Brien 8
Ferris 9
O'Callaghan 6
O'Connell 7
Ross 7
Best 6
Healy 7

Now that's more like it

Tigerandahalf · 04-03-2012 05:33PM

Sexton's defence was brilliant. He was nervy though.
Kearney was awesome. His take where he took it like a GAA player was incredible. With a wet ball as well.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 04-03-2012 05:37PM

andyman wrote: »

Just saw this, there are more people who are deserving of a shot than Zebo.

While I don't think he is really ready for international rugby, Zebo is in phenomenal form and would edge ahead of Kearney because of it. Kearney was the standout player for the Wolfhounds though. Zebo could be seen in the tunnel before the game too, which would indicate that he is the 23rd man.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 04-03-2012 05:39PM

Trimble has really disappointed me this year. He couldn't have done more to get a shot last year but, now he is playing his form has dropped off.

Kayless · 04-03-2012 05:40PM

think the team played great today all to often people criticise small mistakes but for me today France proved just how good they are (17-6 at half time) all the same, I still think we have the beating of them

CatFromHue · 04-03-2012 05:42PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Kearney 10

For the Fofana's try Kearney should have done an awful lot better. Tackling and defence has always been his weak point and it was exposed today. He played excellently in the rest of the game but should have stopped Fofana. I couldn't give him a 10 because of that.

donfers · 04-03-2012 05:42PM

kearney 9
bowe 8
earls 7
d'arcy 7 (thought he defended really well, yes he had one major screw-up when he tried to pass and dropped it but that's about all he did wrong)
trimble 6
sexton 6 (good in defense, other than that poor I'm afraid)
murray 7 (an improvement on last week)
heaslip 6
sob 7
ferris 7
doc 7
poc 7
healy 6
best 7
ross 6

scrum was ok, lineout was poor but Best was excellent around the park again

Pearson 4 - always knew he was a homer, i think he refereed us far more than france and let them seal off all day as well as engage early in the scrums.....oh and barnes and pearson cost us field position late on when they ruled incorrectly on kearney keeping the ball in while in mid-air, the Barnes Pearson double act has been quite costly to Ireland this season

shootermacg · 04-03-2012 05:43PM

Ross 9/10 and that's just because i don't like to hand out 10s!!!

Tigerandahalf · 04-03-2012 05:44PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

andyman wrote: »

Just saw this, there are more people who are deserving of a shot than Zebo.

While I don't think he is really ready for international rugby, Zebo is in phenomenal form and would edge ahead of Kearney because of it. Kearney was the standout player for the Wolfhounds though. Zebo could be seen in the tunnel before the game too, which would indicate that he is the 23rd man.

Form is the big thing. Kearney last yr wasnt half the player as he is this yr. He looks full of confidence at mo. Heaslip is the opposite. No harm to try someone else. It would be a wasted 6 nations if we didnt blood one or two players.

RoundBox11 · 04-03-2012 05:49PM

boynesider wrote: »

That was incredibly disappointing. To go an entire half without scoring at this level is very poor, especially considering the possession we had.

What cost us in the end was a combination of a terrible refereeing performance by Pearson and some woeful individual performances on the Irish team. I know it's harsh to say it but some of our players let their teammates down badly today. Here are the ratings as I see it

Kearney 9
Bowe 8
Earls 6
D'Arcy 4 (offers nothing and hasn't done for a while)
Trimble 3 (biggest let down of all)
Sexton 5 (defensively incredible but he is capable of so much more)
Murray 7

Healy 7
Best 4
Ross 6
O'Connell 7
O'Callaghan 5
Ferris 8
O'Brien 7 (he was playing really well and was rightly perplexed at being taken off)
Heaslip 5 (turnover at the end was his best contribution but was generally below par)

Subs were okay. No one stood out apart from Reddan and Ryan. For Scotland next week I would love to see a number of changes being made. And given the intensity of the match today, for once Kidney may be forced to abandon his conservatism due to the short turnaround.

Ryan and Reddan deserve to start and I will be shocked if they don't. Apart from that, wouldn't it be great to see Zebo get a shot?

What a complete load of utter rubbish!!

These boards player ratings thing are annoying enough as it is but having so many wanabe george hooks just makes it worse.

Ireland but in a great performance. Their intesity dropped a bit in the second half but they still defended brilliantly. First half was immense also.

Such a negative outlook also, what game were you watching?

Leinster7 · 04-03-2012 05:49PM

SOB = 9 , shouldnt have been subbed off. Looked like McCaw today. Excellent.

Fireball07 · 04-03-2012 05:53PM

I'll have a go, didn't agree with the OP at all, I'm sure others have posted scores closer to reality but:

Kearney- 9 - Phenomenal. No other way to describe it. Man of the match for the 3rd game in a row.
Bowe- 8 - Took both his tries really well.
Earls- 7 - Great hands to set up the 2nd try, strong in defence.
D'Arcy- 6 - Again, mixing good with bad. Wouldn't mind seeing McFadden start here.
Trimble- 5 - Bit disappointing really.
Sexton- 8 - Absolutely massive in defence, absolutely brilliant. Still standing a bit too deep for my liking and had one or two poor kicks out of hand. Still, an excellent performance.
Murray- 7 - Much better than last week, seemed to be slipping back into bad habits in the 2nd half before he went off.
Heaslip- 6 - Not as good as last week.
O'Brien- 8 - Superb performance. Maybe a bit strange he was taken off.
Ferris- 8 - Another monster. Unbelievable in defence.
O'Connell- 7 - Bit quieter than usual.
O'Callaghan- 7 - Thought he played very well. Came off at the right time though, he was beginning to tire.
Ross- 8 - Excellent performance. Scrum was very steady in general.
Best- 6 - Somebody's got to take the blame for a poor lineout, he was still excellent in the loose.
Healy- 7 - Pretty good, good in the scrum, got around in the loose too.

Ryan- 7 - Again brought ferocity to the pitch when he came on.
POM- 6 - Didn't get much chance to shine really. Did okay.
Reddan- 6 - Sped it up a small bit but really didn't get as much chance to show what he can do as you would have liked.
O'Gara- 6 - Grand, like. Didn't really get to kick the ball.
McFadden/Court/Cronin- Can't really judge on them.

irishbucsfan · 04-03-2012 05:56PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

I'll have a go, didn't agree with the OP at all, I'm sure others have posted scores closer to reality but:

Kearney- 9 - Phenomenal. No other way to describe it. Man of the match for the 3rd game in a row.
Bowe- 8 - Took both his tries really well.
Earls- 7 - Great hands to set up the 2nd try, strong in defence.
D'Arcy- 6 - Again, mixing good with bad. Wouldn't mind seeing McFadden start here.
Trimble- 5 - Bit disappointing really.
Sexton- 8 - Absolutely massive in defence, absolutely brilliant. Still standing a bit too deep for my liking and had one or two poor kicks out of hand. Still, an excellent performance.
Murray- 7 - Much better than last week, seemed to be slipping back into bad habits in the 2nd half before he went off.
Heaslip- 6 - Not as good as last week.
O'Brien- 8 - Superb performance. Maybe a bit strange he was taken off.
Ferris- 8 - Another monster. Unbelievable in defence.
O'Connell- 7 - Bit quieter than usual.
O'Callaghan- 7 - Thought he played very well. Came off at the right time though, he was beginning to tire.
Ross- 8 - Excellent performance. Scrum was very steady in general.
Best- 6 - Somebody's got to take the blame for a poor lineout, he was still excellent in the loose.
Healy- 7 - Pretty good, good in the scrum, got around in the loose too.

Ryan- 7 - Again brought ferocity to the pitch when he came on.
POM- 6 - Didn't get much chance to shine really. Did okay.
Reddan- 6 - Sped it up a small bit but really didn't get as much chance to show what he can do as you would have liked.
O'Gara- 6 - Grand, like. Didn't really get to kick the ball.
McFadden/Court/Cronin- Can't really judge on them.

Pretty much agree 100%. Very harsh on Rob Kearney though

MungBean · 04-03-2012 06:01PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Trimble has really disappointed me this year. He couldn't have done more to get a shot last year but, now he is playing his form has dropped off.

Tends to happen when you realise no matter what you do a place is awarded when Kidney either likes you or he has no choice. He was ignored for a world cup starting place despite playing out of his skin at every opportunity because the place was never up for grabs. Now Earls has moved to 13 the place is his regardless of how anyone else plays behind him. Nobody is vying for position, those who are behind will remain behind and those ahead will remain ahead. Kidney is slowly sucking all ambition out of the players.

That said I think he was good against Wales and Italy and he wasnt bad today. A couple of errors and all his work is over looked. In comparison with Earls who's many errors tend to get over looked in favour of highlighting his few attributes. Darcy is also getting hung by a lot of people despite a good performance. He was rock solid in defence, made a lot of ground when on the attack. Best getting hung because of a couple bad throws despite being immense in the loose same as before the world cup. When he got his throws right people called him the greatest player of the world cup squad. Now he misses a couple and he's back to being crap. Same old story really.

shootermacg · 04-03-2012 06:01PM

The irish scrum was bloody awesome today, front row take a bloody well deserved bow! What I was really happy with was court coming in and annihilating his opposite number, way to go court! Ross was immense for 80 minutes, best missed some darts today, but still one of the best if not the best hookers in the game at the moment as far a loose play goes.

Tigerandahalf · 04-03-2012 06:02PM

Fair play to Tom Court. How many of us thought he might give away a penalty at the last scrum?
Murray was bit better today but some of his passes were poor. Sexton picked the ball off his laces at one stage. Im glad at least that Murray stopped that box kicking.

boynesider · 04-03-2012 06:06PM

People seem to think my ratings are very harsh but I think some of the alternative ones are slightly too generous.

For me an average performance deserves a 5, and if a player is below average then he deserves less than that.

There were a number of below par performances in green shirts today, and I'm not sure why people can't see that.

Kayless · 04-03-2012 06:16PM

boynesider wrote: »

People seem to think my ratings are very harsh but I think some of the alternative ones are slightly too generous.

For me an average performance deserves a 5, and if a player is below average then he deserves less than that.

There were a number of below par performances in green shirts today, and I'm not sure why people can't see that.

Cause its taken us 27 years to do what we did today

Cpt_Blackbeard · 04-03-2012 06:23PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

I'll have a go, didn't agree with the OP at all, I'm sure others have posted scores closer to reality but:

Kearney- 9 - Phenomenal. No other way to describe it. Man of the match for the 3rd game in a row.
Bowe- 8 - Took both his tries really well.
Earls- 7 - Great hands to set up the 2nd try, strong in defence.
D'Arcy- 6 - Again, mixing good with bad. Wouldn't mind seeing McFadden start here.
Trimble- 5 - Bit disappointing really.
Sexton- 8 - Absolutely massive in defence, absolutely brilliant. Still standing a bit too deep for my liking and had one or two poor kicks out of hand. Still, an excellent performance.
Murray- 7 - Much better than last week, seemed to be slipping back into bad habits in the 2nd half before he went off.
Heaslip- 6 - Not as good as last week.
O'Brien- 8 - Superb performance. Maybe a bit strange he was taken off.
Ferris- 8 - Another monster. Unbelievable in defence.
O'Connell- 7 - Bit quieter than usual.
O'Callaghan- 7 - Thought he played very well. Came off at the right time though, he was beginning to tire.
Ross- 8 - Excellent performance. Scrum was very steady in general.
Best- 6 - Somebody's got to take the blame for a poor lineout, he was still excellent in the loose.
Healy- 7 - Pretty good, good in the scrum, got around in the loose too.

Ryan- 7 - Again brought ferocity to the pitch when he came on.
POM- 6 - Didn't get much chance to shine really. Did okay.
Reddan- 6 - Sped it up a small bit but really didn't get as much chance to show what he can do as you would have liked.
O'Gara- 6 - Grand, like. Didn't really get to kick the ball.
McFadden/Court/Cronin- Can't really judge on them.

I'd agree with most of it but would still make a couple of changes.

Sexton - 7.5 - Fantastic in defence but not great otherwise. One or two mistakes and should have lined up for a dg at ~70minutes.
SOB - 7 - Had a good game and looked much more like a 7. He didn't carry with any vigor when the opportunity arose and still tends to be a penalty magnet though. Clear signs that he is starting to adapt though.
Ferris - 9 - I'd give him another point because he was devastating in defense. Must have made 15 tackles and most of them were huge hits.
POC - 8 - He wasn't as standout as recently but was still everywhere in defense. Like Ferris, he must have made ~15 tackles.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 04-03-2012 06:27PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'd agree with most of it but would still make a couple of changes.

Sexton - 7.5 - Fantastic in defence but not great otherwise. One or two mistakes and should have lined up for a dg at ~70minutes.
SOB - 7 - Had a good game and looked much more like a 7. He didn't carry with any vigor when the opportunity arose and still tends to be a penalty magnet though. Clear signs that he is starting to adapt though.
Ferris - 9 - I'd give him another point because he was devastating in defense. Must have made 15 tackles and most of them were huge hits.
POC - 8 - He wasn't as standout as recently but was still everywhere in defense. Like Ferris, he must have made ~15 tackles.

Exactly right
One off 14

boynesider · 04-03-2012 06:28PM

Kayless wrote: »

boynesider wrote: »

People seem to think my ratings are very harsh but I think some of the alternative ones are slightly too generous.

For me an average performance deserves a 5, and if a player is below average then he deserves less than that.

There were a number of below par performances in green shirts today, and I'm not sure why people can't see that.

Cause its taken us 27 years to do what we did today

Yes but with the best group of players we've ever had in that period. We are capable of so much more than what we are achieving at the moment.

Tigerandahalf · 04-03-2012 07:03PM

I don't think we are. Today we played to our current limit and we couldn't win. France played poor and once their A game failed they seemed unable to do anything else. They showed themselves to be limited as well.
I still think we are physically not big enough in the collision areas. We never have been. We struggle consistently to get over the gainline. The top teams like France, S Africa, N Zealand and even England always have bigger packs than us.
Somehow the Wallabies had the class to get over their physical weaknesses. However, even now they are struggling. We are short 2 or 3 big players. A beast of a 2nd row is needed to complement O'Connell. We don't produce them tough. We also need size in the centre to get over the gainline.
Our scrum is improving but still vulnerable to coughing up soft penalties. If it keeps improving it should help us.

irishbucsfan · 04-03-2012 07:29PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

A beast of a 2nd row is needed to complement O'Connell. We don't produce them tough.

We certainly do produce them, there's one pottering about in Belfast tonight.

RoundBox11 · 04-03-2012 07:39PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We certainly do produce them, there's one pottering about in Belfast tonight.

Yeah youre right there.

I don't think our pack is any smaller than the French/NZ etc. If you look at the pack weights anyway.

As far as beast 2nd rows apart from Tuohy..... I'd definitely consider all 6ft 10 and 19 stone of Devin Toner to be a beast. If we were to go back 5 years ago id be saying how Bob Casey is a beast too. That ship has long sailed unfortunately

Tox56 · 04-03-2012 07:50PM

Surely if most people agree Ryan should start, Tuohy would be a better bench option than DOC? Tuohy coming off the bench would make a significant impact compared to anyone, not least compared to DOC.

Irish player ratings against France

Comments