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Israeli official advocates starving Iranian people.

2

Comments

  • #32
    Dirk Gently
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭Dirk Gently


    Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »
    News headline:

    "Iranian officials advocate wiping Israel off the face of the map, killing gays, treating women as second class citizen, denying the rights of religious minorities and theocratic dictatorship - all at the same time" - Shock, horror!

    sounds just like a US republican presidential campaign.


  • #33
    timothybryce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭timothybryce


    Dirk Gently wrote: »
    sounds just like a US republican presidential campaign.

    Who said that?


  • #34
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    Dirk Gently wrote: »
    sounds just like a US republican presidential campaign.

    An average US republican wouldn't exactly be against the notion of a theocracy or killing gays, more like tacit agreement.


  • #35
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    moresthepity82 wrote: »
    i dont know how Pro-Israelites can sleep at night

    the regime openly refers to the state as "Jewish".

    Which constitution is the following from, I'll delete the name so you can take a guess...
    In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
    We, the people of ****,
    Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
    Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
    And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
    Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.


  • #36
    czx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    RichieC wrote: »
    You might call it moving the goal posts, I consider it acknowledging reality.

    Israel is a massive military power whatever way you cut it. We aren't even sure what their nuclear capability is but it is suspected that they are 3rd or 4th with 250+ warheads, and a bio warfare division.

    You guys wish to paint them as a "tiny democracy" - to suit your agenda.


    Israel is far closer to being a tiny democracy than the 4th greatest military power on earth. It has a population of less than 8 million and has an area of less than half the size of Ireland. These are facts, unlike your straight up lies and speculation.


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  • #37
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    czx wrote: »
    Israel is far closer to being a tiny democracy than the 4th greatest military power on earth.
    Hardly. According to globalfirepower.com's analysis Israel is ranked 10th overall in the world on military strength.


  • #38
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nodin wrote: »
    There's no realistic prospect of any such thing happening in the short to medium term. At all.
    I would have said that there is no realistic prospect that Mossad would be posing as their supposed allies in the CIA to recruit Jundullah terrorists to kill Iranian civilians inside Iran to create tension and distrust between Tehran and Washington. I would have been wrong.


  • #39
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    JustinDee wrote: »
    I already have described more than two options.
    Whoa there, fella. I'm just describing how the machinations of economic and medical sanctions. This doesn't mean I support everything about it.
    I'm getting mixed messages from you. Could you please clarify if you are against any policy of mass starvation regardless of any real, imagined or fabricated for expediency existensial threat,

    JustinDee wrote: »
    Since Hamas came to power (early 2006 unless I'm much mistaken) there has been no opposition allowed and a number of purges have taken place at opportune moments. There is no opposition for the simple reason that Hamas won't allow it.
    Attempting to justify how Hamas run Gaza unopposed and bleat about democracy, human rights etc.
    I have no idea why you are talking about Hamas. It's wholly irrelevant. Though, FWIW, they, or more accurately their support are a good example of people being pushed towards extremism and nationalism via siege mentality when they are treated like dogs by an external enemy.

    Which is why putting the Iranian people on a diet would be counter-productive.


  • #40
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I would have said that there is no realistic prospect that Mossad would be posing as their supposed allies in the CIA to recruit Jundullah terrorists to kill Iranian civilians inside Iran to create tension and distrust between Tehran and Washington. I would have been wrong.

    A rather hare-brained comparison.

    Do please outline how a blockade of Irans food supply - to the extent that would cause food shortages - would be carried out.


  • #41
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nodin wrote: »
    A rather hare-brained comparison.
    On the contrary. Covert operations against Iran and sanctions were both two of the five pillars of action to be taken simultaneously by The US/Israel as suggested by then Mossad Chief Meir Dagan.
    Nodin wrote: »
    Do please outline how a blockade of Irans food supply - to the extent that would cause food shortages - would be carried out.
    And why would I need to that? I never suggested so. Any food shortages would arise due gaps between production/imports and consumption. The gap (food shortages) being greater the more succesful the sanctions are.

    The sanctions have already impacted the diets of primarily working class Iranian people.
    More evidence emerged of the crippling impact of new sanctions on Iran, with international traders saying Tehran is having trouble buying rice, cooking oil and other staples to feed its 74 million people weeks before an election.

    New US financial sanctions imposed since the beginning of this year to punish Tehran over its nuclear programme are playing havoc with Iran's ability to buy imports and receive payment for its oil exports, commodities traders said.

    Iran denies that sanctions are causing serious harm to its economy, but Reuters investigations in recent days with commodities traders around the globe show serious disruptions to its imports. That is having a real impact on the streets of Iran, where prices for basic foodstuffs are soaring.

    South Korean President Lee Myung-bak was in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, the latest leader of a major Asian oil importing country to visit the Middle East seeking alternative sources of oil as sanctions make it more difficult to import from Iran.

    Traders in Asia told Reuters that Malaysian exporters of palm oil - the source of half of Iran's consumption of a food staple used to make margarine and confectionary - had halted sales to Iran because they could not get paid.

    That followed news on Monday that Iran had defaulted on payments for rice from top supplier India, and news last week that Ukrainian shipments of maize had been cut nearly in half.

    Rice is one of the main staples of the Iranian diet. With the rial currency plummeting, prices have more than doubled to $5 a kilo at bazaars in Iran from about $2 last year.

    Maize is used primarily as animal feed, and the cost of meat has almost tripled to about $30 a kilo, beyond the budget of many middle class Iranian families.
    http://www.tradearabia.com/news/FOOD_212359.html

    This is not enough for the Israeli official quoted in the YNET article.
    "Suffocating sanctions could lead to a grave economic situation in Iran and to a shortage of food," the source said. "This would force the regime to consider whether the nuclear adventure is worthwhile
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...196885,00.html

    He wants to punish the ordinary people of Iran not the regime. This is a barbaric policy.


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  • #42
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    On the contrary. Covert operations against Iran and sanctions were both two of the five pillars of action to be taken simultaneously by The US/Israel as suggested by then Mossad Chief Meir Dagan. .


    Comparing an alleged covert operation to imposing crushing food shortages and mass starvation on a large state is rather silly. I suspect you know this, and just want to start another line of discussion.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    And why would I need to that? .

    ...because in posts 19, 20, 27 and 38 you speak of it as if its a real possibility.


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    This is not enough for the Israeli official quoted in the YNET article.
    He wants to punish the ordinary people of Iran not the regime. This is a barbaric policy.

    It isn't as of yet a policy. Even if it was Israeli policy, they'd then have to get a great deal of assistance to implement it.


  • #43
    The Israeli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    A replay to the first post:

    The people in Gaza aren't starving. Proved countless times.

    Minister Liberman and the prime commander of IDF are preparing a solution to the Muslim Alawite refuges that might come to seek shelter in Israel if and when Assad falls.

    http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2012/January/Israel-Prepares-to-Shelter-Syrian-Refugees/

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4173814,00.html

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-chief-israel-ready-to-absorb-some-syria-refugees-once-assad-falls-1.406487

    I couldn't find a source in English for Liberman's words, yet.

    Israel plans to starve Iranians? What a poo..
    You have completely twisted your source's words..


  • #44
    czx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Hardly. According to globalfirepower.com's analysis Israel is ranked 10th overall in the world on military strength.

    ya nice one. It also ranks Israel ahead of Germany. Israel buys it's submarines from Germany


  • #45
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I ask again, how does anyone justify calling Israel a "democracy"?
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Stopped reading there.
    A democracy does not discriminate based on religion, nor does a democracy deliberately exclude the majority of the population from participating in democracy in order to preserve the supremacy of a particular ethnic group.
    Furthermore, a democracy does not bulldoze the homes of members of one group in order to steal their land and make room for homes of a different group.

    It's called racism.

    Either the west Bank and East Jerusalem are within the borders of the Israeli state or they're not. If they're not, the Israelis don't have a right to legal jurisdiction over a single square centimetre of them. If they are, then every Palestinian living in them should have a vote - but of course then they would outnumber the Israelis living there, and we couldn't have that now could we?

    I'd have no problem whatsoever with Israel if they weren't mucking around with their border. Expansion in 1967 was fundamentally wrong on every level, and the situation which exists now as a consequence is profoundly undemocratic.

    Either they claim sovereignty over those lands or they don't. If they do, the Palestinians, regardless of their impact on the Jewish majority, have the right to representation.

    Otherwise, Israel is not a democracy.
    There's no grey area here. Choose one or the other.


  • #46
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    czx wrote: »
    Israel is far closer to being a tiny democracy than the 4th greatest military power on earth. It has a population of less than 8 million and has an area of less than half the size of Ireland. These are facts, unlike your straight up lies and speculation.

    A malleable old reality, isn't it.


  • #47
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    czx wrote: »
    ya nice one. It also ranks Israel ahead of Germany. Israel buys it's submarines from Germany
    It's based on statistical analysis of almost fifty factors; not who buys submarines from who.


  • #48
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nodin wrote: »
    Comparing an alleged covert operation to imposing crushing food shortages and mass starvation on a large state is rather silly. I suspect you know this, and just want to start another line of discussion.

    ...because in posts 19, 20, 27 and 38 you speak of it as if its a real possibility.

    It isn't as of yet a policy. Even if it was Israeli policy, they'd then have to get a great deal of assistance to implement it.
    The comparison only served to demonstrate that from the Israeli perspective human life of an enemy is inconsequential at best. When you fund and supply terrorists to kill civilians then evidently you treat human life with disdain.

    The only person that has made any mention of a blockade in the whole thread is you. I have just explained to you that the Israeli official calls for food shortages through sanctions not a blockade.


  • #49
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    The Israeli wrote: »
    A replay to the first post:

    The people in Gaza aren't starving. Proved countless times.
    Did you read the report from Isreali human rights group Gisha? Through a freedom of information request they obtained documents that the Israeli regime were intentionally calculating the bare minimum of calories that Gazan's could survive on and only allowing this minimum of food in.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    Israel plans to starve Iranians? What a poo..
    You have completely twisted your source's words..
    Nonsense. I'll show you.

    This is what the Israeli official said:
    "Suffocating sanctions could lead to a grave economic situation in Iran and to a shortage of food," the source said. "This would force the regime to consider whether the nuclear adventure is worthwhile
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...196885,00.html

    This is the relevant definition of starve:
    transitive verb
    1
    a : to kill with hunger b : to deprive of nourishment c : to cause to capitulate by or as if by depriving of nourishment

    2
    : to destroy by or cause to suffer from deprivation

    3
    archaic : to kill with cold

    To cause to capitulate by depriving of nourishment is exactly what the Israeli official suggests.


  • #50
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    The comparison only served to demonstrate that from the Israeli perspective human life of an enemy is inconsequential at best. .


    .....which makes them much the same as everyone else, really.

    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    The only person that has made any mention of a blockade in the whole thread is you. I have just explained to you that the Israeli official calls for food shortages through sanctions not a blockade.

    ...and thats somehow more likely?


  • #51
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nodin wrote: »
    .....which makes them much the same as everyone else, really.
    Well no. In the two examples I have spoken of - the forced starvation of the Gazan population and the posing as Americans to fund and train Sunni terrorists to murder innocent Iranians put's them in a league with other war criminals which is not "the same as everybody else".
    Nodin wrote: »
    ...and thats somehow more likely?
    Yes. As I've already pointed out the sanctions are already leading to food shortages in Iran.


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  • #52
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    ...............



    Yes. As I've already pointed out the sanctions are already leading to food shortages in Iran.

    ......there are not people starving, however.

    Are we to get a thread every time a likud coalition member comes out with something controversial? Just as a matter of interest. We might need a sub-forum.


  • #53
    czx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It's based on statistical analysis of almost fifty factors; not who buys submarines from who.


    population and economy size must be far down that list so


  • #54
    Foghladh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭Foghladh


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    To cause to capitulate by depriving of nourishment is exactly what the Israeli official suggests.


    To harp back to an earlier point here... you're continuing to use an unnamed official of unknown position to underscore your central points.


    Incidentally I notice in the same online gazette that Irans Deputy Defence Minister Ahmad Vahidi has stated that 'Irans warriors are ready and willing to wipe Israel off the map'

    How does that rhetoric strike you?


  • #55
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Foghladh wrote: »
    To harp back to an earlier point here... you're continuing to use an unnamed official of unknown position to underscore your central points.
    I'm aware. I have read the article.
    Foghladh wrote: »
    Incidentally I notice in the same online gazette that Irans Deputy Defence Minister Ahmad Vahidi has stated that 'Irans warriors are ready and willing to wipe Israel off the map'

    How does that rhetoric strike you?
    As irrelevant.


  • #56
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    czx wrote: »
    population and economy size must be far down that list so
    Your labouring this point now. They just run the numbers. Population and economy are factors they take into account. They specifically claim to be unbiased and I can see no indication to suggest otherwise. Israel is ranked 10th in world military strength and that is without Israel's substantial illicit nuclear weapons arsenal and the unconditional support - political and military aid of their number 1 ranked, the US.


  • #57
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nodin wrote: »
    ......there are not people starving, however.
    The point is that there is food insecurity already from the existing sanctions. The Israel official has called for further crippling sanctions above and beyond what already exists and this in the mind of the Israeli official is what will lead to people starving.
    Nodin wrote: »
    Are we to get a thread every time a likud coalition member comes out with something controversial? Just as a matter of interest. We might need a sub-forum.
    I don't read tea leaves so I can't answer that.


  • #58
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    The point is that there is food insecurity already from the existing sanctions. The Israel official has called for further crippling sanctions above and beyond what already exists and this in the mind of the Israeli official is what will lead to people starving.


    ...........

    ....when the UN enacts those sanctions, I'll worry.


  • #59
    brimal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭brimal


    This thread is a complete non-starter and you are milking it to the last.

    Even the threads you start in the CT forum have more substance than this.

    Any more info on this unnamed 'official'?


  • #60
    czx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Your labouring this point now. They just run the numbers. Population and economy are factors they take into account. They specifically claim to be unbiased and I can see no indication to suggest otherwise. Israel is ranked 10th in world military strength and that is without Israel's substantial illicit nuclear weapons arsenal and the unconditional support - political and military aid of their number 1 ranked, the US.

    And they must be pretty far down the list. Whatever world you choose to live in, I rank Germany's ability to wage war ahead of Israel's. It has ten times the population and a huge industrial base. In absolute terms, Israel is a small country.


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  • #61
    Jaafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    czx wrote: »
    And they must be pretty far down the list. Whatever world you choose to live in, I rank Germany's ability to wage war ahead of Israel's. It has ten times the population and a huge industrial base. In absolute terms, Israel is a small country.

    While the above is true, if you wish to take it into account you must also consider likely opponents. German only possible opponent in the medium term is Russia (though still very unlikely). Israels likely opponents are the same as always, Egypt,Jordan,Syria etc.

    Germany fairs far worse against Russia alone, than Israel would against even 3 Arab states combined.


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