Is religion responsible for homophobia?

Freiheit · 05-11-2011 06:13PM #1

and to what extent? why did homophobia develope to begin with? was that it contradicted the biblical passage 'go forth and multiply' or was there other reasons for simply not liking gay people?. The most homophobic parts of the world are where religion are strongest. Africa,the Middle East,Bible belt U.S.A.. Thoughts?.

foggy_lad · 05-11-2011 06:27PM

Freiheit wrote: »

and to what extent? why did homophobia develope to begin with? was that it contradicted the biblical passage 'go forth and multiply' or was there other reasons for simply not liking gay people?. The most homophobic parts of the world are where religion are strongest. Africa,the Middle East,Bible belt U.S.A.. Thoughts?.

Many of those areas are also the poorer areas where religious groups have more power over the poor and ignorant by actually keeping them poor and ignorant! The Catholic church did the same in Ireland for decades. The only chance people had was to educate their children and the only people doing education were the church

They also banned contraception and told women it was gods will that they keep having children they could not afford or physically bear so that when the mothers died or went mad and the children were locked up for running wild they were given to the church who charged the state a furtune to care for them..........:(

Anything that was different or promoted people thinking for themselves or getting a better education to get out from under the church's foot was frowned upon and called evil and against gods will! Queers like me were never going to add to Gods little army of waifs, strays, orphans and poor little bastards, and any young woman seen to be a bit unsure or fond of enjoying life was locked away in a laundry to earn the church even more.

Religion is responsible for a lot of homophobia but I would say it is close to the least of their sins!

Alopex · 05-11-2011 07:28PM

I'd say homophobia may have been responsible for religion actually.

People who become religious in the born again way don't usually end up classically homophobic they just come out with wishy washy statements about bringing the gays to god

df1985 · 05-11-2011 07:52PM

The romans and the greeks had no problem with a bit of man on man fun, then the church came along.

Gingko · 05-11-2011 07:58PM

df1985 wrote: »

The romans and the greeks had no problem with a bit of man on man fun, then the church came along.

What about our own Celts? Anyone know what they thought? They did fight naked and paint themselves blue!

stephen_n · 05-11-2011 08:17PM

No, ignorance is responsible for homophobia!

WonderWoman! · 05-11-2011 08:59PM

stephen_n wrote: »

No, ignorance is responsible for homophobia!

He sums it up nicely

Killer Pigeon · 05-11-2011 09:01PM

Freiheit wrote: »

and to what extent? why did homophobia develope to begin with? was that it contradicted the biblical passage 'go forth and multiply' or was there other reasons for simply not liking gay people?. The most homophobic parts of the world are where religion are strongest. Africa,the Middle East,Bible belt U.S.A.. Thoughts?.

It is one cause but not the only cause.

wonderfulname · 05-11-2011 09:10PM

Religion is just used as an excuse by people who would have been homophobic regardless.

L.Jenkins · 05-11-2011 09:13PM

Alopex wrote: »

I'd say homophobia may have been responsible for religion actually...

Sounds like the age old chicken and egg scenario. Which came first, Homophobia or the Church?

Gingko wrote: »

They did fight naked and paint themselves blue!

That was used as an intimidation tactic akin to kamakazi pilots in World War 2.

As for homophobia, it seems like another social construct, which has been driven home over centuries.

northernstar · 24-11-2011 08:33PM

I think homophobia and religion are so closely linked. The Catholic Church's problem is that they believe homosexual active is in contradiction to St. Thomas Aquinas' Natural Theory. i.e. it is not natural. Its such a weak theory as homosexual active occurs in abundance in nature, something like 1500 species engaged in homosexual behaviour! This belief that its 'unnatural' has been around since the 11th century and inbred in the society that its wrong, producing generations and generations of homophobia.
And there isn't really any mention that homosexuality is wrong in the New Testament. There are some stories in the Old Testament (the one about the men of Sodem) but again they're making out that homosexuality is wrong when its could be argued its not what the story is about at all!!

Sonics2k · 24-11-2011 11:22PM

Gingko wrote: »

What about our own Celts? Anyone know what they thought? They did fight naked and paint themselves blue!

Homosexuality was pretty much a non issue in a lot of Ancient Ireland.

I do believe there was actually a Divorce clause stating that a woman or man could divorce their partner if they weren't able to sexually satisfy them, including if one of them was gay.

/ontopic
I'd say Religion certainly can contribute to homophobia, but largely people will use it as an excuse to hate homosexuality. With that said I know a few agnostics who are homophobic just because they're arseholes.

[Rasta] · 24-11-2011 11:26PM

stephen_n wrote: »

No, ignorance is responsible for homophobia!

You could argue that people's ignorance is due to religion to a certain extent. It surely almost took 2000 years for people to finally realise religion isn't particularly useful in any way. It has generally been used to cause more harm than good.

wonderfulname · 24-11-2011 11:38PM

[Rasta] wrote: »

You could argue that people's ignorance is due to religion to a certain extent. It surely almost took 2000 years for people to finally realise religion isn't particularly useful in any way. It has generally been used to cause more harm than good.

You could argue that people's religion is due to ignorance, as knowledge increases, religion changes to suit and/or loses it's grip.

I would say homophobia also stems from ignorance, which is why levels homophobia and religious belief tend to correlate, I really don't think one causes the other, and I think people extract the homophobic passages from religious texts in order to validate an existing opinion, rather than extracting that opinion from the religious texts.

[Rasta] · 24-11-2011 11:46PM

wonderfulname wrote: »

You could argue that people's religion is due to ignorance, as knowledge increases, religion changes to suit and/or loses it's grip.

I would say homophobia also stems from ignorance, which is why levels homophobia and religious belief tend to correlate, I really don't think one causes the other, and I think people extract the homophobic passages from religious texts in order to validate an existing opinion, rather than extracting that opinion from the religious texts.

Yea I agree.. it would be hard to tell anyway, and I'm just shooting an idea out of the blue here. But I'm just wondering where would people get this homophobic ignorance opinion from then, if not directly from religion?

wonderfulname · 25-11-2011 12:32AM

[Rasta] wrote: »

Yea I agree.. it would be hard to tell anyway, and I'm just shooting an idea out of the blue here. But I'm just wondering where would people get this homophobic ignorance opinion from then, if not directly from religion?

Well, another idea shot out of the blue then, a standard utterance by a homophobe is that being gay is "not normal", where you find ignorance and conservative religious beliefs you also tend to find fear or resistance to anything different or unknown, anything outside of gender norms takes a particularly hard hit there and being gay would be a part of that.

I don't think homophobia is particularly different as far as "phobias" are concerned, you wouldn't blame religion for xenophobia or racism for example, but you would blame it for giving a degree of validation to racist beliefs during segregation in America or apartheid in South Africa.

[Rasta] · 25-11-2011 10:24AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

Well, another idea shot out of the blue then, a standard utterance by a homophobe is that being gay is "not normal", where you find ignorance and conservative religious beliefs you also tend to find fear or resistance to anything different or unknown, anything outside of gender norms takes a particularly hard hit there and being gay would be a part of that.

Where does that idea come from though, its obvious homophobes think its not normal, but you aren't born with that idea in your head, it has to come from somewhere.

I just think its due to religion over time. I mean religion has been strong up until now, so they would have had a huge influence on how people think and shaping their beliefs... so religion would be responsible for instigating homophobia, if not entirely creating it.

stephen_n · 25-11-2011 01:59PM

Ignorance is inherent, it's a social thing that organised religions choose to take advantage of it.

25-11-2011 03:34PM

It is hard to say how homophobic the world would be without religion. It would be a losing battle to try and suggest is has nothing to do with it, but at the same time getting people to hate those different from themselves is not all that hard to do. Especially in the areas of sex and race.

That said – in a relationship with two girls – I do find the ones that do accost me or them in public or in bars having copped our dynamic are almost invariably religious or throw religious nonsense at us when doing it.

So if religion is not the dominant cause of homophobia, those being homophobic in it’s name are at least intent on making it appear that it is.

wonderfulname · 25-11-2011 07:11PM

[Rasta] wrote: »

Where does that idea come from though, its obvious homophobes think its not normal, but you aren't born with that idea in your head, it has to come from somewhere.

I don't know about that, it's not normal for their culture, that doesn't have to come from anywhere but the fact that different relationships are normal.

Donnaghm · 25-11-2011 08:56PM

I think it comes from a range of sources.

General stupidity and ignorance.
Fear of the unknown - isolated rural communities.
Fear of change and anything different.
Macho cultures - Africa, Italy, Eastern Europe
Self loathing closeted homosexuals who project their self hatred onto other gays - so many GOP politicians who preach family values have been caught using rent boys.
Miserable people who want to make everyone as miserable as themselves.
And why almost all religions are anti gay to some extent is beyond me.

Gillgalad · 02-12-2011 10:00PM

I don't really know about Ireland and catholic church, but in Russia - the church is responsible. Religious people hate gays and claim they all will be in Hell (also they say that God is Love))).

DinaRaven · 03-12-2011 02:08AM

Religion is part of the problem.

The church advocates hatred of homosexuals and teaches thus to young children while they are the most impressionable. It's passed down through generations and religion does nothing but reinforce the ideas.

Of course, it's not religion alone at fault. I've seen plenty of Atheists and Agnostics being just as disagreeable as the religious folk, but not as many. The other part in ignorance and stupidity.

To be honest, before I came to live in Ireland, I was expecting Ireland to be full of religious fundamentalists. That's how Ireland is portrayed to outsiders with it's Catholic majority. It's nothing like America's Bible Belt or similar places which is a pleasant surprise. (:

OldNotWIse · 06-12-2011 11:42AM

No. Religion is a scapegoat for homophobia.

DubArk · 06-12-2011 11:55AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

No. Religion is a scapegoat for homophobia.

Explain you point?

OldNotWIse · 06-12-2011 12:00PM

DubArk wrote: »

Explain you point?

A lot of people who are homophobic will say they have an issue with being gay because religion says it is wrong when the truth is they just simply do not like gays. It explains why so many people revert to the Bible for justifying their condemnation of homosexuality, being able to even quote passages where it says gayness is wrong... yet they ignore the rest of the the Bibles "teachings" and let all other "wrongs" slide...

stephen_n · 06-12-2011 01:10PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

A lot of people who are homophobic will say they have an issue with being gay because religion says it is wrong when the truth is they just simply do not like gays. It explains why so many people revert to the Bible for justifying their condemnation of homosexuality, being able to even quote passages where it says gayness is wrong... yet they ignore the rest of the the Bibles "teachings" and let all other "wrongs" slide...

But that's most religious people's attitude to everything!

DubArk · 06-12-2011 02:25PM

It's easy for them to call on their imaginary friends for moral guidance when it suits...
But at least I can prove I love a real person and respect real people while living on this real planet! F*k religion!

*I’ll go to hell for that one*

DaveDaRave · 07-12-2011 11:29PM

Most of the homophobic people you'd meet in day to day life are anything but religious

DubArk · 07-12-2011 11:43PM

DaveDaRave wrote: »

Most of the homophobic people you'd meet in day to day life are anything but religious

Really! Explain?

Pilotdude5 · 08-12-2011 01:53PM

Thought this was interesting, the amount of dislike's put a smile on my face!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAJNntoRgA&feature=player_embedded

wonderfulname · 12-12-2011 12:44AM

"Adding comments has been disabled for this video."

That's disappointing, I'm sure there would have been some great ones!

EDIT: There's a remix, ah, that's much better;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkU4Ahd8zPA

opinionated3 · 13-12-2011 10:47AM

DubArk wrote: »

It's easy for them to call on their imaginary friends for moral guidance when it suits...
But at least I can prove I love a real person and respect real people while living on this real planet! F*k religion!

*I’ll go to hell for that one*

Interesting.....so its ok for you to openly bash those of us who have faith and try to live good lives....

13-12-2011 10:53AM

opinionated3 wrote: »

Interesting.....so its ok for you to openly bash those of us who have faith and try to live good lives....

I thought the same.

To some it's not ignorance or religion, homosexuality to many folk seems as unnatural as someone tucking into a plate of horse manure for dinner when there's roast beef available.

baby and crumble · 13-12-2011 11:08AM

opinionated3 wrote: »

Interesting.....so its ok for you to openly bash those of us who have faith and try to live good lives....

Firstly, gay people live 'good lives' as well.

Secondly, while I may not agree with the sentiment "f*ck religion", I do have a problem with religion when people are using THEIR beliefs to stifle MY rights. That's the issue here.

For the record, I agree with Perry that the whole "Happy Holidays" thing has gotten out of hand. But everything else he spews is pretty much bong water, frankly.

opinionated3 · 13-12-2011 11:21AM

baby and crumble wrote: »

opinionated3 wrote: »

Interesting.....so its ok for you to openly bash those of us who have faith and try to live good lives....

Firstly, gay people live 'good lives' as well.

Secondly, while I may not agree with the sentiment "f*ck religion", I do have a problem with religion when people are using THEIR beliefs to stifle MY rights. That's the issue here.

For the record, I agree with Perry that the whole "Happy Holidays" thing has gotten out of hand. But everything else he spews is pretty much bong water, frankly.

My point was that the poster said ''F religion''......what about those who are openly gay but still practise their faith? Note to all....gays do not own all moral high ground....as much as they like to give that impression.

baby and crumble · 13-12-2011 12:01PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

My point was that the poster said ''F religion''......what about those who are openly gay but still practise their faith? Note to all....gays do not own all moral high ground....as much as they like to give that impression.

I don't think anyone said 'gays do not own the moral highground', just as religious people don't.

I also think the problem is individuals within organised religions who use faith and religion as weapons to dominate over minorities- you can't argue that that hasn't happened throughout history. When religion is the main tool used to stop rights as a human coming to fruition, then I can understand peoples frustration, which often is expressed through expletives. Nothing new about that.

stephen_n · 13-12-2011 01:24PM

RoverJames wrote: »

I thought the same.

To some it's not ignorance or religion, homosexuality to many folk seems as unnatural as someone tucking into a plate of horse manure for dinner when there's roast beef available.

Probably as unatural as it seems to many people to believe that a so called loving god would preach hatred of those that he supposedly created!

Oh and religious people don't hold the rights to god either even though they try to claim! Religion is a man made concept!

DubArk · 13-12-2011 01:38PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

Interesting.....so its ok for you to openly bash those of us who have faith and try to live good lives....

I make no apologies for what I said. I have absolutely no time for organised religion. I’m talking about the collective, not the individual in this matter. Been gay is not a religion, it’s just a fact, bases on the truth, that one is attracted to the same sex.
Religious groups have and still do, as a collective, constantly take the higher moral ground bases on faith. Especially christian based beliefs. I deal in facts myself. I am sorry if you are offended.

Oh by the way I live a good life too….

opinionated3 · 13-12-2011 04:14PM

DubArk wrote: »

I make no apologies for what I said. I have absolutely no time for organised religion. I’m talking about the collective, not the individual in this matter. Been gay is not a religion, it’s just a fact, bases on the truth, that one is attracted to the same sex.
Religious groups have and still do, as a collective, constantly take the higher moral ground bases on faith. Especially christian based beliefs. I deal in facts myself. I am sorry if you are offended.

Oh by the way I live a good life too….

glad to hear it....i would argue though that if you dismiss organised religion as a collective (as you stated) that you also dismiss the individual who follows that religion. So do you eventually dismiss the gay individual who chooses to believe in a loving God....or is he to be lumped in with heterosexual faithful who apparently are incapable of dealing in fact?? I find it a pity that this thread exists (no offence to the op) because as a practising Catholic myself i was never told/brainwashed to believe that gay people were abnormal or to be hated and vilified. Neither did my parents try to enforce any such belief. I totally admit there are aspects of my religion that do not sit comfortable with me....the non acceptance of homosexuality and women priests is to be abhorred. However there are other aspects which I am extremely proud of. I was lucky to grow up in a parish that had fantastic priests who led by example and had a very positive influence on our community. I believe that someday we will see women priests - i also sincerely hope that one day we will see total acceptance of all persons irrespective of their sexuality. However until that day it would be nice if the religion bashing was set to one side. I see the effect it has on decent hardworking priests and even my parents. I would hope that posters here would not vilify me for being proud of my faith...

stephen_n · 13-12-2011 04:37PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

glad to hear it....i would argue though that if you dismiss organised religion as a collective (as you stated) that you also dismiss the individual who follows that religion. So do you eventually dismiss the gay individual who chooses to believe in a loving God....or is he to be lumped in with heterosexual faithful who apparently are incapable of dealing in fact?? I find it a pity that this thread exists (no offence to the op) because as a practising Catholic myself i was never told/brainwashed to believe that gay people were abnormal or to be hated and vilified. Neither did my parents try to enforce any such belief. I totally admit there are aspects of my religion that do not sit comfortable with me....the non acceptance of homosexuality and women priests is to be abhorred. However there are other aspects which I am extremely proud of. I was lucky to grow up in a parish that had fantastic priests who led by example and had a very positive influence on our community. I believe that someday we will see women priests - i also sincerely hope that one day we will see total acceptance of all persons irrespective of their sexuality. However until that day it would be nice if the religion bashing was set to one side. I see the effect it has on decent hardworking priests and even my parents. I would hope that posters here would not vilify me for being proud of my faith...

But your faith and your religion although intertwined are seperate entitys. Your religion specifically abhors homosexuality and says it is wrong but seemingly for the rest of your post your faith doesn't concur?

DubArk · 13-12-2011 04:54PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

glad to hear it....i would argue though that if you dismiss organised religion as a collective (as you stated) that you also dismiss the individual who follows that religion. So do you eventually dismiss the gay individual who chooses to believe in a loving God....or is he to be lumped in with heterosexual faithful who apparently are incapable of dealing in fact?? I find it a pity that this thread exists (no offence to the op) because as a practising Catholic myself i was never told/brainwashed to believe that gay people were abnormal or to be hated and vilified. Neither did my parents try to enforce any such belief. I totally admit there are aspects of my religion that do not sit comfortable with me....the non acceptance of homosexuality and women priests is to be abhorred. However there are other aspects which I am extremely proud of. I was lucky to grow up in a parish that had fantastic priests who led by example and had a very positive influence on our community. I believe that someday we will see women priests - i also sincerely hope that one day we will see total acceptance of all persons irrespective of their sexuality. However until that day it would be nice if the religion bashing was set to one side. I see the effect it has on decent hardworking priests and even my parents. I would hope that posters here would not vilify me for being proud of my faith...

I would argue in fact then you’re not a Catholic.

How could you call yourself a Catholic if in fact you don’t believe in their rules, the club rules in fact?
The Catholic Church is very clear on its attitude towards Gays and therefore you. Hence I spoke about the collective and not the individual, as in the case of your good self and your parents.

floggg · 13-12-2011 05:18PM

I hate this high horse nit picking bull**** that some atheists go on with. Who cares whether somebody fits your or anybody else's definition of "catholic". If somebody wants to identify as catholic let them.

I also hate how some people go out of their way to say how much they hate religion and openly ridicule it, yet get excited if religious types criticise gays.

Im a gay atheist but I don't care a damn about somebody else's religion as long as they don't try and use it as justification to interfere with my life. Similarly my being gay doesn't affect their life so they should let me be.

Now, if people cross that line - a la Rick Perry - we as a society are perfectly justified in pointing out the hypocrisy and intolerance which he espouses. That doesn't mean we are entitled to ridicule their faith.

On the one hand we say how dare they be so intolerant of others and yet we have no qualms about putting down their religious views.

And yes, I know the pope espouses some crappy and harmful things about gays and condoms etc. Those views should be rightly challenged where they lead to harm to others.

But otherwise, let's treat others beliefs and views with some dignity and respect. The same dignity and respect we expect from them.

Freiheit · 15-12-2011 12:52PM

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/15/mohawks-shaved-off-indonesia_n_1150304.html

Islamic motivated persecution of gays and punks in Indonesia,all because a 6th century madman prescribed such. Why in 2011 are vast stretches of the world governed on this basis?.

I think religion is responsible for more prejudice that anything else.

Even where the people themselves are not religion,religion is often a fall back position to support their position.

Islam is the least tolerant of major faiths.

floggg · 15-12-2011 02:50PM

Gays weren't mentioned once in the article.

Freiheit · 15-12-2011 02:56PM

Does it not somewhere mention execution by stoning for homosexuality in that province?.

roryj123 · 15-05-2012 11:50PM

Yes,I think they are responsible for Catholics that think 'Gay's are going to hell' If the catholic church disagrees with it they should speak about it,because they are still responsible even though they don't talk about it.

Pedant · 16-05-2012 01:16AM

Religion is one of the main proponents, but not the only. A lot of homophobia stems from people who aren't comfortable accepting their own sexuality for fear of being isolated by their peers. This is the case particularly among men, where homosexuality is viewed, wrongly, as an attack on masculinity.

whattotdo · 16-05-2012 09:32AM

While religion is responsible for homophobia to some extent the main factor imo,as I've said in another thread,is that homosexuals are a minority group so are an easy target.To give an example,I was the victim of homophobic abuse when I was a member of a local soccer team,the rest of the lads were 'straight'...if the majority of the lads were homosexual you can guarantee I wouldn't of been bullied.
Religion isn't important to most people and most only attend funerals,communions,confirmations,weddings yet homophobia is still prevalent.

OldNotWIse · 16-05-2012 09:33AM

No. It's a scapegoat for homophobia.

roryj123 · 16-05-2012 07:24PM

I put it this way people aren't born with hate.

Is religion responsible for homophobia?

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