Please sign feral cat petition

momg · 23-05-2012 12:23PM #1

Can I ask all cat lovers to please sign this petition:

<snip>

We are asking that ALL cats in Ireland, feral as well as tame, be included in the forthcoming Animal Health & Welfare Bill. There is no legitimate reason why they shouldn't be included as feral cats are the same species as tame cats and in many instances are former domestic pets that have been abandoned by their owners or are the offspring of such cats. Presently they have no protection or legislation concerning their welfare and safety and this needs to be addressed adequately in the Bill.

Thanks everyone and please share with other cat loving friends.

Bullseye1 · 23-05-2012 07:11PM

I'm a cat owner but what about or native wildlife and the effect these non-native feral cats have on it?

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 07:15PM

Bad idea and it will not happen, no matter what some people think feral cats are a problem and need to be controled

loveisdivine · 23-05-2012 08:40PM

It's crazy how as humans we have decided that certain animals are pests, and therefore we can kill them.

Why do you think there are so many ferals in the first place? Because stupid humans abandoned them or let them roam un-neutered, that's why. So the problem is ours to fix, but of course our first solution is kill them.

Yes they kill some birds. How many wild animals do humans kill every year? By destroying habitats or food sources. Oh but that's ok, nobody really cares about that.

Yes they might poo in your garden or estate, but how many landfills are filled with sh*tty nappies? Ah sure that doesn't count eh!

We've done way more damage to the planet and nature than any other animal ever will yet we don't see a problem with it. We don't restrict our breeding. We just keep multiplying.

The attitude of some people really stinks.

Petition signed, with pleasure.

super_furry · 23-05-2012 08:43PM

"Trap/neuter/return must be the 1st option considered for feral cats, not trap and kill."

Return where? Release them back into urban areas?

loveisdivine · 23-05-2012 08:44PM

^^ how exactly are they such a nuisance?

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 08:46PM

We call them a pest because they are a pest. Rabbits, foxes, cats that are let roam, mice, rats, all pests

Habitats for rare or endangered animals are protected and maintaned so these anmals can have a chance

People dont generally live or kids dont usually play on landfills so that argument is nul and void

Odelay · 23-05-2012 08:52PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

^^ how exactly are they such a nuisance?

They breed like feck and decimate bird populations and they don't just kill for food, they kill for fun too.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0907_040907_feralcats.html

While it is unplesant, they should not breed uncontroled the in the first place.

loveisdivine · 23-05-2012 08:53PM

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

We call them a pest because they are a pest. Rabbits, foxes, cats that are let roam, mice, rats, all pests

Habitats for rare or endangered animals are protected and maintaned so these anmals can have a chance

They are only pests because we deem them so. Because the interfere with our lives slightly.

So are we not destroying rainforests and fertile lands? Species aren't going extinct at an alarming rate?
I wish that was the case.

I just get a bit angry when I see people complaining about animals, when humans are way more of a "nuisance" to the planet than animals ever will be.

loveisdivine · 23-05-2012 08:57PM

Odelay wrote: »

loveisdivine wrote: »

^^ how exactly are they such a nuisance?

They breed like feck and decimate "insert any number of species here" populations and they don't just kill for food, they kill for fun too. .

Remind you of anyone? Sounds a lot like us humans to me.

Odelay · 23-05-2012 08:57PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

It's crazy how as humans we have decided that certain animals are pests, and therefore we can kill them.

How many wild animals do humans kill every year? By destroying habitats or food sources.

loveisdivine wrote: »

the average feral cat will kill far more wild life than the average human in a year. It is in the wild 24/7.

Out of interest do you consider any amimal to be a pest? Rats?

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 08:58PM

Im not destroying rainforests or letting my cat roam and breed freely, im mot letting my supposed pets go around pissing off my neighbours by ****ting in their gardens, a friend of mine only told me tonight that her fella went into the babys room and their was a cat in the crib!

Trap neuter relese is a nice idea but unfortunatly it does nothing to solve the immediate problem and cats can live a long time

Odelay · 23-05-2012 08:59PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

Remind you of anyone? Sounds a lot like us humans to me.

I have to agree. Hopefully we will learn.

loveisdivine · 23-05-2012 09:02PM

Odelay wrote: »

Out of interest do you consider any amimal to be a pest? Rats?

If human life was seriously in danger because of the over population of a certain species, then probably yes. But killing them all wouldn't necessarily be my first response. It wouldn't be a decision I would be happy about.

What I don't agree with is people advocating the killing of lots of animals just because we consider them a nuisance.

I'd guarantee more species are now extinct because of humans , than because of cats. Why don't we treat ourselves with the same disgust?

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:04PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

They are only pests because we deem them so. Because the interfere with our lives slightly.

So are we not destroying rainforests and fertile lands? Species aren't going extinct at an alarming rate?
I wish that was the case.

I just get a bit angry when I see people complaining about animals, when humans are way more of a "nuisance" to the planet than animals ever will be.

They never interfere with my life only that I do notice the decrease in bird population when there is a feral cat about. Do you think I should say "one cat, dozens of birds gone, hasn't inferfered with me so....meh, not my problem?"

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 09:05PM

Humans are working to stop animals going extinct, cats are not going to go extinct even if every single stray and feral in the country were culled there would still be more than enough

cambridge · 23-05-2012 09:06PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

It's crazy how as humans we have decided that certain animals are pests, and therefore we can kill them.

Why do you think there are so many ferals in the first place? Because stupid humans abandoned them or let them roam un-neutered, that's why. So the problem is ours to fix, but of course our first solution is kill them.

Yes they kill some birds. How many wild animals do humans kill every year? By destroying habitats or food sources. Oh but that's ok, nobody really cares about that.

Yes they might poo in your garden or estate, but how many landfills are filled with sh*tty nappies? Ah sure that doesn't count eh!

We've done way more damage to the planet and nature than any other animal ever will yet we don't see a problem with it. We don't restrict our breeding. We just keep multiplying.

The attitude of some people really stinks.

Petition signed, with pleasure.

Jesus christ are you comparing feral cats to people? People litter so why can't cats wreck the place? People kill birds why can't cats? Do you want cats to be able to vote in elections as well?

Ireland's attitude to cats and dogs is beyond a disgrace. People who let their dog or cat roam free should risk having the animal destroyed as they are a menace. Feral cats unfortunately are a by-product of human neglect. It's lamentable that the original owners of these feral cats or their descendants are impossible to find, they should be punished.

Essentially all feral cats should be destroyed. Roaming cats should be destroyed. People that release cats should be punished (fine and imprisonment). All domestic pets should be spayed and neutered.

loveisdivine · 23-05-2012 09:08PM

Odelay wrote: »

They never interfere with my life only that I do notice the decrease in bird population when there is a feral cat about. Do you think I should say "one cat, dozens of birds gone, hasn't inferfered with me so....meh, not my problem?"

No but why should the solution be a death sentence for all feral cats? Do we really hold the lives of animals with such little value?

For the most part we created this problem. Now we just want to get rid of them all and forget the whole thing happened.

Browning2010 · 23-05-2012 09:08PM

Loveisdivine or whatever your name is,

You don't like humans much? The way your coming across you'd swear you wanted humans to be killed or something instead of cats.

Cats feral and domesticated kill thousands of song birds every year of course they need to be controlled and that's by filling them with lead(the feral ones).

There actually probably worse than foxes.

What about rats, do you want to see them protected aswell?..or is it just the fluffy cute animals you care about?

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:11PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

If human life was seriously in danger because of the over population of a certain species, then probably yes. But killing them all wouldn't necessarily be my first response. It wouldn't be a decision I would be happy about.

What I don't agree with is people advocating the killing of lots of animals just because we consider them a nuisance.

I'd guarantee more species are now extinct because of humans , than because of cats. Why don't we treat ourselves with the same disgust?

I don't advocate killing animals for no reason, however under certain circumstances a cull can be required as a last resort. Any good animal welfare person say this. It would be preferred not to have to do so, would be better if breeding was controlled but we are not in a perfect world.

Yes more species are extinct because of human activity than because of cats. I believe you are right here. I do treat some humans with discust.

boomerang · 23-05-2012 09:12PM

Odelay wrote: »

They breed like feck and decimate bird populations and they don't just kill for food, they kill for fun too.
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Just like the pet cat population, then. It's not that they kill for fun - that's anthropomorphism. Domestication has removed the need to hunt for survival, but the instinct is still there.

Feral cats like to have their food handed to them, like any pet cat. If they're not getting fed by someone, they'll hunt mice and shrew, but don't like to eat rat. Their third preference is for small birds, as these are harder to hunt.

I often hear people say feral cats decimate bird populations, but where is the evidence, other than on isolated environments such as Tory island?

There's no clear line between pet cat and feral cat. Many cats we consider feral are actually tame to the people that feed them, and in fact, become even tamer still once neutered. Many stray cats that have become wary of people are confused with true ferals - which are relatively rare. It's such a grey area. How can you justify shooting a cat that is owned, healthy and neutered, simply because of its fear of people? How do you even identify a feral at fifty paces? They're not all snot-nosed bags of bones! The neutered, cared-for ones I've seen are indistinguishable from tame cats, and many tame cats that are neglected could be mis-identified as feral.

I agree that un-neutered feral cats can be a terrible nuisance in built-up areas, but the idea of a blanket cull is unworkable, not to mention unpalatable to the general public. It'll never happen.

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:15PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

For the most part we created this problem. Now we just want to get rid of them all and forget the whole thing happened.

How do you suggest we stop them killing birds for fun? Honestly I'm open to any sugestions, I'd love to see this problem sorted.

loveisdivine · 23-05-2012 09:16PM

Browning2010 wrote: »

Loveisdivine or whatever your name is,

You don't like humans much? The way your coming across you'd swear you wanted humans to be killed or something instead of cats.

Cats feral and domesticated kill thousands of song birds every year of course they need to be controlled and that's by filling them with lead(the feral ones).

There actually probably worse than foxes.

What about rats, do you want to see them protected aswell?..or is it just the fluffy cute animals you care about?

It's more that I don't like a lot of the actions of humans, more than humans themselves.

I have already said that I agree with culling if there is a genuine threat to human life but not just because they annoy some people.

I would stand up for any animal, whether fluffy or not, if I felt they were being dealt a poor hand in life.

I think a lot of people roll out the "cats kill all the birds" line because it's a convenient way of not having to say that they just don't like cats.

It just amazes me the contempt we have for other animals, compared to how lazily we react to our own negative actions.

I don't want to get into a big debate, I just don't think killing everything is always the answer.

super_furry · 23-05-2012 09:17PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

Remind you of anyone? Sounds a lot like us humans to me.

Grand so. Well if the cats want to evolve and become the dominant species on this planet then they can debate the ethics of trapping, neutering and releasing us.

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 09:17PM

An organised cull will not happen you are right about that bit neither will what the patition is calling for so culls in certain areas will continue to happen

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:20PM

boomerang wrote: »

Odelay wrote: »

They breed like feck and decimate bird populations and they don't just kill for food, they kill for fun too.
[/url]

Just like the pet cat population, then. It's not that they kill for fun - that's anthropomorphism. Domestication has removed the need to hunt for survival, but the instinct is still there.

Feral cats like to have their food handed to them, like any pet cat. If they're not getting fed by someone, they'll hunt mice and shrew, but don't like to eat rat. Their third preference is for small birds, as these are harder to hunt.

I often hear people say feral cats decimate bird populations, but where is the evidence, other than on isolated environments such as Tory island?

There's no clear line between pet cat and feral cat. Many cats we consider feral are actually tame to the people that feed them, and in fact, become even tamer still once neutered. Many stray cats that have become wary of people are confused with true ferals - which are relatively rare. It's such a grey area. How can you justify shooting a cat that is owned, healthy and neutered, simply because of its fear of people? How do you even identify a feral at fifty paces? They're not all snot-nosed bags of bones! The neutered, cared-for ones I've seen are indistinguishable from tame cats, and many tame cats that are neglected could be mis-identified as feral.

I agree that un-neutered feral cats can be a terrible nuisance in built-up areas, but the idea of a blanket cull is unworkable, not to mention unpalatable to the general public. It'll never happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

Not asking for a blanket cull, just asking that the law does not change they are untouchable and uncontrolled.

cambridge · 23-05-2012 09:24PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

It just amazes me the contempt we have for other animals, compared to how lazily we react to our own negative actions.

I don't want to get into a big debate, I just don't think killing everything is always the answer.

You obviously haven't thought about this much. You can't get into a big debate because you have no logical rationale for your opinion. It's pure misplaced sentimentality.

You are aware that if you don't pay your TV licence you get a fine and risk imprisonment. you are aware that if you dump rubbish on the street you risk a fine and and imprisonment. you are aware that if you steal things from other people you risk imprisonment. You are aware that if you kill people you risk imprisonment.

Bullseye1 · 23-05-2012 09:24PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

I think a lot of people roll out the "cats kill all the birds" line because it's a convenient way of not having to say that they just don't like cats.

I don't want to get into a big debate, I just don't think killing everything is always the answer.

But since you have brought it up what about those of us who do like cats but elect to keep them inside so that they don't destroy our native wildlife. If you chose to keep a cat you are responsible for its actions including if it kills birds. It's in their nature to hunt. If people took more responsibility we wouldn't be talking about feral cats. But since they are not native wildlife we have a responsibility to protect our native wildlife.

Cork boy 55 · 23-05-2012 09:27PM

What is the estimated Feral and tame cat population of Eire?

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:30PM

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

What is the estimated Feral and tame cat population of Eire?

"estimated one million strong feral cat population in Ireland"

http://kildarevet.ie/2010/10/15/trap-neuter-return-irelands-feral-cats/

boomerang · 23-05-2012 09:33PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

Wikipedia doesn't convince me. All that article provides is a reference from an ornithologist's report of 1916 (Ornithologist - biased much?) problems with European mammals introduced to New Zealand and Oz from the old world, and the problems for vulnerable species in small island populations.

Where's the data to show us the effect of feral cats on Irish bird populations?

If it's out there and it's un-biased, I do want to see it. I'm not blind to the fact that un-controlled populations of feral cats can cause problems.

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 09:35PM

An unneutwres breeding pair of feral cata can become i think about 200,000 in a decade!

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:37PM

boomerang wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

Wikipedia doesn't convince me. All that article provides is a reference from an ornithologist's report of 1916 (Ornithologist - biased much?) problems with European mammals introduced to New Zealand and Oz from the old world, and the problems for vulnerable species in small island populations.

Where's the data to show us the effect of feral cats on Irish bird populations?

If it's out there and it's un-biased, I do want to see it. I'm not blind to the fact that un-controlled populations of feral cats can cause problems.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/feral-cat-US.html#cr

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:43PM

boomerang wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

Wikipedia doesn't convince me. All that article provides is a reference from an ornithologist's report of 1916 (Ornithologist - biased much?) problems with European mammals introduced to New Zealand and Oz from the old world, and the problems for vulnerable species in small island populations.

Where's the data to show us the effect of feral cats on Irish bird populations?

If it's out there and it's un-biased, I do want to see it. I'm not blind to the fact that un-controlled populations of feral cats can cause problems.

If that food supply consists of an endangered small mammal or bird, the effect of feral cats on the environment can be devastating.

http://www.knowyourcat.info/lib/feralcats.htm

boomerang · 23-05-2012 09:45PM

The feral cat population is believed to roughly equal that of the pet cat population.

Even if I actively disliked feral cats and agreed with shooting them, I'd still think it wrong that anyone can shoot at what they believe to be a feral cat. Granted most feral cats that get shot are in rural areas, and it's known that they are not owned. In a lot of cases the farmer has un-neutered yard cats and wants to cut down the numbers.

In suburban and urban areas, where you find most feral cats, it is much more difficult to distinguish them from pet cats and stray cats. I can't imagine it'll ever be acceptable for people to shoot cats in built-up areas.

I do think feral cats deserve better status. I have had small families of cats (say, 4-5) health-checked, wormed and neutered and provided with proper food and shelter. In some cases they've been relocated to farms, where they're doing a good job of pest control. These cats have become increasingly tame to the people they see everyday.

As it stands, there is nothing to prevent these cats being shot by someone on a whim. Strictly speaking it is illegal to poison them, but that goes on all the time too. I've seen them writhing in agony and have brought them to the vet to be put out of their misery.

I don't believe there should be un-controlled, un-regulated killing of any species, pest or not.

Spunk84 · 23-05-2012 09:48PM

Its never going to happen pure and simple:D their feral so no one owns them, its like having a wolf population in donegal and the sheep farmers saying its ok..... just another waste of a thread that will be closed in time

cambridge · 23-05-2012 09:49PM

boomerang wrote: »

In some cases they've been relocated to farms, where they're doing a good job of pest control. As it stands, there is nothing to prevent these cats being shot by someone on a whim.

If they live on a farm, they should be considered the property of the farmer. Feral cats are not the property of the farmer, therefore these cats are not be considered feral, despite them living ferally. Hunters would have no right to shoot on the farmers lands without permission, when giving permission he should explain that the cats are his and not to be shot.

Cork boy 55 · 23-05-2012 09:49PM

What is European union policy?
What examples are available elsewhere in EU to deal with this infestation?

boomerang · 23-05-2012 09:51PM

Odelay wrote: »

If that food supply consists of an endangered small mammal or bird, the effect of feral cats on the environment can be devastating.

http://www.knowyourcat.info/lib/feralcats.htm

I totally agree Odelay, but I do want hard facts for Ireland and the UK. You'll find some feral cat welfare groups making claims that feral cats do insignificant damage to wildlife, and you'll also have nature lovers and the shooting/hunting fraternity saying that feral cats decimate wildlife. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle and very much depends on the location of the cats.

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:52PM

boomerang wrote: »

The feral cat population is believed to roughly equal that of the pet cat population.

Even if I actively disliked feral cats and agreed with shooting them, I'd still think it wrong that anyone can shoot at what they believe to be a feral cat. Granted most feral cats that get shot are in rural areas, and it's known that they are not owned. In a lot of cases the farmer has un-neutered yard cats and wants to cut down the numbers.

In suburban and urban areas, where you find most feral cats, it is much more difficult to distinguish them from pet cats and stray cats. I can't imagine it'll ever be acceptable for people to shoot cats in built-up areas.

I do think feral cats deserve better status. I have had small families of cats (say, 4-5) health-checked, wormed and neutered and provided with proper food and shelter. In some cases they've been relocated to farms, where they're doing a good job of pest control. These cats have become increasingly tame to the people they see everyday.

As it stands, there is nothing to prevent these cats being shot by someone on a whim. Strictly speaking it is illegal to poison them, but that goes on all the time too. I've seen them writhing in agony and have brought them to the vet to be put out of their misery.

I don't believe there should be un-controlled, un-regulated killing of any species, pest or not.

True, willy-nilly killing is not required, I agree. However if domesticated cats wore a bell (would also alert birds) then it would be easier to distinguish domestic from feral in most cases.

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 09:54PM

Lollers wrote: »

Well said, unfortunately some people have an almost psychopathic desire to murder cats.

Murder? :rolleyes:

boomerang · 23-05-2012 09:55PM

cambridge wrote: »

If they live on a farm, they should be considered the property of the farmer. Feral cats are not the property of the farmer, therefore these cats are not be considered feral, despite them living ferally. Hunters would have no right to shoot on the farmers lands without permission, when giving permission he should explain that the cats are his and not to be shot.

That gave me a pain in my head, not sure I follow you.

How do we define living ferally? These cats sleep in the haybarn and are fed daily.

Feral cats are not to be considered feral, in some situations? Say, where they perform a function?

Odelay · 23-05-2012 09:57PM

boomerang wrote: »

I totally agree Odelay, but I do want hard facts for Ireland and the UK. You'll find some feral cat welfare groups making claims that feral cats do insignificant damage to wildlife, and you'll also have nature lovers and the shooting/hunting fraternity saying that feral cats decimate wildlife. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle and very much depends on the location of the cats.

Fair point boomerang, I'll have a look tomorrow and see what i can find. I appreciate your hunt for honest/relevant information.

boomerang · 23-05-2012 09:58PM

I agree Odelay, universal enforcement of mandatory identification such as tattooing, microchipping or even ear-tipping would offer cats more protection.

Ultimately I hope there is a situation where owners are required to keep their cats on their property, but that is probably a long, long way down the road.

To the hunting folk, would it make a difference to you if the cat was ear-tipped to show it is neutered and part of a managed-colony?

Odelay wrote: »

True, willy-nilly killing is not required, I agree. However if domesticated cats wore a bell (would also alert birds) then it would be easier to distinguish domestic from feral in most cases.

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 09:59PM

Lollers wrote: »

Sorry not murder, I meant putting a bullet in their brain or poisoning them and letting them die in agony.

Shooting is humane no matter what anyone thinks they die instantly. Poisioning on the other hand is wrong and should not be done

dodderangler · 23-05-2012 10:02PM

Kildare.17hmr I know exactly what u mean
As a fellow hunter we seem to be able to spot a feral cat from a mile therefore can take them out now obviously we'd ask the farmer are they a problem if so then they are shot
Trappin them I don't agree with why trap a problem and release it to be someone else's problem
Some farmers may approve of 1 or 2 feral cats to keep rats and mice at bay but they then breed and can be quite dangerous aswell what bout farmers has grand kids visit and young child sees the cat thinks its ordinary cat and next thing gets scraped bitten whatever and ends up in bad way with no way of tellin what disease it had

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 10:05PM

boomerang wrote: »

To the hunting folk, would it make a difference to you if the cat was ear-tipped to show it is neutered and part of a managed-colony?

it would really depend on the area they are in and the land owners wishes. I wouldnt like to shoot someones pet but imo if its a pet it should be kept on the owners property

Spunk84 · 23-05-2012 10:13PM

A dog can be legally shot when found on land harassing livestock,so why cant a cat be shot for harassing protected species such as birds?

foxer3640 · 24-05-2012 07:39AM

As someone who is involved in hunting for the last 20 years i really dont see feral cats as a problem. I spend a lot of time on the land through my work and i scarcely ever see cats. Who wants to shoot a cat that may be some old ladys pet. When i was growing up we always had cats around the farm. They were all pets but yet they had the run of the place. Would this make them feral? If your that desperate to fire at something put up some targets and leave the cats alone. Just my opinion dont want to piss anyone off

kildare.17hmr · 24-05-2012 07:45AM

I understand what your saying foxer, they are obviously not a problem in your area, there was a feckin huge colony on a sheep farm i shoot, all scraby dirty things and when the farmer started to have ewes aborting he asked for a total cull. There is a few around now the odd time but they are not a problem atm and the phesent numbers are way up on previous years which is good because the are all wild in this area because no gun club nearby relesing them

Curly Judge · 24-05-2012 08:01AM

I think that it's not only feral but also well fed house cats who go hunting through the hedgerows at night in search of a little extra curricular activity.
House cats should be locked in at night by the Moggy brigade.

Please sign feral cat petition

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