Greatest coach of all time

matthew8 · 26-05-2012 12:39AM #1

The options are:
George Salas: Coached the Bears for most of the time between 1920 and 1967, collecting 6 NFL championships.

Paul Brown: The Cleveland Browns and Paul Brown stadium are named after Paul Brown, which should tell you just how good a head coach he was. Brought black players into the league. Won 4 AAFC championships and 3 NFL championships.

Vince Lombardi: Lombardi won 6 NFL championships, including 3 in a row between 1965 and 1967. Superbowl trophy of course named after him.

Bud Grant: 1 time NFL champion, but never a superbowl champion despite 4 trips.

Hank Stram: 3 time AFL winner, 1 time superbowl winner but probably best known for being microphoned in superbowl IV and celebrating the successful 65 toss power trap.

Don Shula: Led only undefeated team ever, won 2 superbowls, and was runner up 3 times in a 25 year coaching stint with the Dolphins.

Chuck Noll: Took the Steelers from perennial losers to 4 time superbowl champions.

John Madden: Second winningest coach of all time. Took the Raiders to 8 championship games, but won only once, going on to win the superbowl. Perhaps better known outside of coaching for commentating and video games.

Tom Landry: Coached the Cowboys for an impressive 28 years, going to the superbowl 5 times and winning once.

Bill Walsh: Famous for introducing the west coast offense and having massive success with Joe Montana using it, winning 3 superbowls and laying the groundwork for 2 more.

Joe Gibbs: 3 time superbowl champion with the Redskins with 3 different quarterbacks.

Marv Levy: Reached the superbowl 4 times with the Bills, losing every time.

Jimmie Johnson: 2 time superbowl champion with the Cowboys, and his team went on to win another superbowl after he went out on top.

Bill Parcells: Reached the superbowl 3 times, winning it twice.

Mike Holmgren: Dominated everywhere he went, reaching the superbowl 3 times, winning it once, though Seahawks fans will argue he would've won it twice had it not been for the guys in the stripes.

Mike Shanahan: Impressive offensive coordinator record as well as 2 time superbowl champion. Coaches the Redskins today with little success, but he did beat the Champion Giants comfortably twice this year so clearly he still knows a thing or two.

Bill Belichick: Made a name for himself as DC of the New York Giants, winning 2 superbowls with the Giants before meeting huge success with the Patriots, winning 3 superbowls while reaching 5, and has had a winning season every year since 2000.

Justin10 · 26-05-2012 01:03AM

Haha AKA the Bill Belchick appreciation thread

I aint a clue, I never seen half of their teams play.
I voted for Lombardi 6 titles....

CoachTO · 26-05-2012 01:29AM

Walsh has 3 Super Bowl wins also.

JaMarcus Hustle · 26-05-2012 02:36AM

An important addition to the Gibbs sentence should be "with 3 different quarterbacks" which is really special of you ask me.

CoachTO · 26-05-2012 02:57AM

As a Pats fan Im shocked so many have chosen Bill as the greatest of all time. For me its a toss up between Brown and Lombardi. Had Bill won the bowl in February yes ok the argument is certainly there for GOAT but I dont think he has reached that status yet. Lombardi and/or Brown then maybe Bill in the wings waiting to pounce.

mikemac1 · 26-05-2012 03:04AM

I recommend all voters watch Americas Game from 1966 to 2011 before you cast your vote

Bill Walsh for me

matthew8 · 26-05-2012 09:01AM

Looks to me like I'm the only one who loves the Raiders and John Madden's personality.

me-skywalker · 26-05-2012 10:20AM

Don't forget Lombardi's years with the Giants. 1 victory in 2 Championship games. Turned the Packers from a 1-10 to a 7-5 in 1 season then the titles, of course....

HigginsJ · 26-05-2012 10:32AM

Ammmmm what about the two time Superbowl winning coach currently in the NFL. He is also took an expansion franchise to the playoffs in only their second year.

Not saying he is the greatest but for him not to be on the list is disappointing.

eagle eye · 26-05-2012 12:47PM

CoachTO wrote: »

As a Pats fan Im shocked so many have chosen Bill as the greatest of all time. For me its a toss up between Brown and Lombardi. Had Bill won the bowl in February yes ok the argument is certainly there for GOAT but I dont think he has reached that status yet. Lombardi and/or Brown then maybe Bill in the wings waiting to pounce.

I think he is one of the greatest but not necessarily the greatest. Its very hard to judge coaching in different eras. Things are a lot more professional these days than they were back when Lombardi and even Brown were coaching. There is no way a team can have the same edge now as they did back then. To have this consecutive winning seasons run in this day and age is just incredible.

All three of those guys are great coaches and innovators. Shula is behind them for me despite his unbeaten season and longevity.

CoachTO · 26-05-2012 01:04PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I think he is one of the greatest but not necessarily the greatest. Its very hard to judge coaching in different eras. Things are a lot more professional these days than they were back when Lombardi and even Brown were coaching. There is no way a team can have the same edge now as they did back then. To have this consecutive winning seasons run in this day and age is just incredible.

All three of those guys are great coaches and innovators. Shula is behind them for me despite his unbeaten season and longevity.

The way I look at it there is no way to judge them by comparing the Era they played in and the type of football they played as lets face it neither coach did both. But what we can judge them on right now is cold hard facts.

Lombardi:
Win-loss record: 96-34-6
Winning ratio: .738
Games: 136

6 NFL Championships and 2 Super Bowls.

Paul Brown:

Win-Loss Record: 213–104–9
Winning %: .672
Games: 326

1 NCAA National Championship <---- College but deserves mention
4 AAFC Championships (1946–1949)
3 NFL Championships (1950, 1954–1955)

Bill Belichick:

Career record: 192–104–0
Winning Ratio: (.649)
Games: 296

3 Superbowls

Comparing eras or making excuses for the eras is pointless. Judging them on face value and the stats is the easiest way considering the difference in time. Right now for me Bill is top 3 but a 1-2 bowl wins off Lombardi. As for the consecutive wins being harder now. How can you make that assesment. That kind of is an insult to the hard work those guys did to get to where they where. Sure the game has changed but dont forget wins back then were not easy to come by including the conditions they played in the style of play and the type of game. Both now and then have their pluses and negatives but are worlds apart so its pointless comparing them.

eagle eye · 26-05-2012 01:49PM

CoachTO wrote: »

Comparing eras or making excuses for the eras is pointless. Judging them on face value and the stats is the easiest way considering the difference in time. Right now for me Bill is top 3 but a 1-2 bowl wins off Lombardi. As for the consecutive wins being harder now. How can you make that assesment. That kind of is an insult to the hard work those guys did to get to where they where. Sure the game has changed but dont forget wins back then were not easy to come by including the conditions they played in the style of play and the type of game. Both now and then have their pluses and negatives but are worlds apart so its pointless comparing them.

Just on this bit.

The biggest thing is gametape obviously. Everybody gets to see everything you do on the field in every game you coach. And while thats helpful to a great coach too it obviously means the edge is not as big for a great coach as it was back before they had it.

The game is far more professional in everyway of course. Players are better coached which means the gap between the greats and the average players is not as big as it was so again there is less of an edge than their was and less mistmatches to exploit than there was back then.

Of course you can just go by the wins and thats why I'm saying that Belichick is not clearly no.1 despite 3 Superbowls in this era. I'm not disrespecting anybody by putting BB up there. I'm just understand how difficult it is to win these days.

Btw Bill Walsh is also in the argument for me.

matthew8 · 26-05-2012 02:02PM

Coaching isn't always an easy thing to judge, there's a huge amount of coaches you can make an argument for. I chose Madden because if I wanted one guy to coach my team for a year, I'd pick John Madden. Watching 1976 America's game recently also swayed it for me (and I've watched them all and the missing rings). It was a shame he retired early, I think he would've won at least 2 more superbowls if he stayed on longer.

CoachTO · 26-05-2012 02:04PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on this bit.

The biggest thing is gametape obviously. Everybody gets to see everything you do on the field in every game you coach. And while thats helpful to a great coach too it obviously means the edge is not as big for a great coach as it was back before they had it.

The game is far more professional in everyway of course. Players are better coached which means the gap between the greats and the average players is not as big as it was so again there is less of an edge than their was and less mistmatches to exploit than there was back then.

Of course you can just go by the wins and thats why I'm saying that Belichick is not clearly no.1 despite 3 Superbowls in this era. I'm not disrespecting anybody by putting BB up there. I'm just understand how difficult it is to win these days.

Btw Bill Walsh is also in the argument for me.

I agree on many points and my apologies on the disrespecting thing. I wasnt saying having BB up there was disrespecting but comparing the ease of wins in my eyes ye know. But to each their own on how we view it. As you said limited resources when it comes to old games.

Very big fan of Walsh. He would be up there for me also. So many of the coaches today are in some way related to Walsh and his methods. In fact I think wiki actually has a really cool breakdown and hierarchy of coaches related to Walsh directly or indirectly. The man was a legend and sometimes gets over looked in a lot of conversations. What he done for the game is tremendous. I have some old coaching tapes he done over the years and they are fantastic watching material even if you are not a coach.

Speaking of Walsh I dont know if you have ever seen tape on Sid Gillman. Gillman is a another guys who revolutionised the game and the man who brought us spreading the football and sending it long. I have an old vhs here of some of his stuff and yet to find a proper copy online. Gillman like Walsh was a huge influence in a lot of the great including Walsh. He would for me would be in the Top 25 Coaches of all time. Where I couldnt tell you so many awesome coaches over the years.

Justin10 · 26-05-2012 07:15PM

This reminds me when I was in America talking to a Jets fan. His knowledge was amazing, anyway when he found out I supported the Chargers he said that Don Coryell was the greatest coach of all time.

I was kind of shocked because his record isnt amazing but he is no Norv Turner either

Anyway talking away and he though Coryell was thinking years ahead and changed the game to what it is today.

My point is that in some peoples opinions winning doesn't mean that there the best coach. For example current day Chargers coach I think is very poor manager of players but he is one of the best offensive coaches ive seen in modern times.

Could work that thinking to Josh McDaniels, horrible head coach, New England offensive was very effective with him, I dont know off hand was there much of a difference after he left.

CoachTO · 26-05-2012 07:27PM

Rochey18 wrote: »

This reminds me when I was in America talking to a Jets fan. His knowledge was amazing, anyway when he found out I supported the Chargers he said that Don Coryell was the greatest coach of all time.

I was kind of shocked because his record isnt amazing but he is no Norv Turner either

Anyway talking away and he though Coryell was thinking years ahead and changed the game to what it is today.

My point is that in some peoples opinions winning doesn't mean that there the best coach. For example current day Chargers coach I think is very poor manager of players but he is one of the best offensive coaches ive seen in modern times.

Could work that thinking to Josh McDaniels, horrible head coach, New England offensive was very effective with him, I dont know off hand was there much of a difference after he left.

Interesting you mention Coryell. He learned a lot from Gillman. When Coryell was HC at SDSU. He used to model his team on the Chargers at the time coached by Gillman. He used to bring his students to the Chargers practice to watch the Chargers practice. In a 6 degrees of seperation type way Coryell was an influence on Joe Gibbs then. Gibbs was Coryells OC in San Diego and both he and Coryell used a lot of Gillmans influence in their offense.

Bros father in law one night gave me a unique insight into the Chargers and their coaches one night big chargers fan from San Diego. Interesting how Gillman and Coryell had influenced so many other coaches.

jack presley · 26-05-2012 07:30PM

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

An important addition to the Gibbs sentence should be "with 3 different quarterbacks" which is really special of you ask me.

And it wasn't like they were of the Montana, Elway, Brady caliber either

CoachTO · 26-05-2012 07:35PM

The guy who runs Smartfootball.com writes some excellent posts on some of the old school coaches one of many websites I like to read great for his breakdowns also.

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/04/sid-gillman-father-of-modern-passing.html <---- His old blog

His new one

http://smartfootball.com/

If you use the custom google search with some of the coaches names you find articles relating them to the modern game. There is a few more out there also.

Edit: read a couple of pieces from this book coming out in August about Gillman looks to be a cracking read.

http://www.amazon.com/Sid-Gillman-Father-Passing-Game/dp/1578605059/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp

themont85 · 26-05-2012 10:30PM

Walsh.

The creation of his West Coast offence and his success with it makes him the GOAT imo. Other aspects too of course (motivation ect) but I think he is the greatest because of this. That system has won a lot of Championships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9TcFkDRJso

27-05-2012 05:24AM

Knut Rockne
Paul Bear Bryant

Lothaar v2 · 29-05-2012 11:44AM

As CoachTO says, Gillman was hugely influential to a lot of other coaches and his system (for which the term 'West Coast Offense' was originally coined, btw) gave us the most productive offenses of all time.

For me, Gillman was one of the most innovative coaches ever. Was he the best? Hard to say. There's more to coaching than schemes and systems. Walsh had schemes and innovations AND managed to get everything else right throughout his very successful career. It's very hard to see past him.

Greatest coach of all time

Who is the greatest coach of all time? 41 votes

Comments