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What's TCD like as a university? :)
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It's threads like this that make me really sorry I never read this forum before getting into Trinity. I'd love to be able to appreciate this stuff as an outsider.
"I wanted to find out what the atmosphere was like, but they kept getting into pointless arguments over whether or not they're pretentious, and then they started discussing American values, political leanings and the constitution.
On second thoughts lets not go to Trinity, it is a silly place."
I know. I've created a monster.Tears in Rain wrote: »their constitution after all, was created by a bunch of enlightened freethinkers who were years ahead of their time, and is, notwithstanding the amendments, a fairly minimalist affair...ours is a bloated and flawed document, created with the grim specter of Archbishop John Charles McQuaid breathing down the authors' necks at all times.
whendovescry wrote: »I hesitate saying prescient but then again I don't think you can blame Jefferson et al for not foreseeing where arms technology would be today. Providing for your family and defending one's property were a priority during the 18th century, whereas every gun manufactured today is done so with the sole purpose of killing another human being.
Indeed, it is a fine document. It has its incompatibilities with today, then again, it was written in a different time. In terms of modern stuff, the constitution rightly defends freedom of speech, but people can be too quick to think that means defending freedom of speech at all costs, which under certain circumstances can be a bad thing (eg. hate speech). I find that Americans liberals tend to value freedom of speech in a more absolute way than over here. I know its trivial, but I never quite got why reference is made to the christian god bearing in mind the writers were predominately atheists, agnostics and (at a push) deists. Interestingly, there are many on the religious conservative wing who still think they were all theists...whendovescry wrote: »I agree that most Irish students are leftist, at least the ones that can think for themselves. The conservative cohort that you mention have been unadulteratedly brainwashed by their ultraconservative parents and wouldn't recognize a new thought if it slapped them in the face!
Did I mention a conservative cohort? I don't seem to recall that...0 -
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Given, as you say, that Trinity is more academic and 'nerdy,' with people who like to study, I think its to be expected that people in Trinity will feel that their degrees are better than those from other universities.
I think there's a difference between being pretentious, and recognizing that Trinity is the best college (by many objective measures) in the country. The people who are pretentious dicks I think are in the minority, but at the same time people are (rightly) proud that they're studying in a very good university, having worked their asses off in school In order to get in.
Well as I already said, I didn't see any difference in the quality of the teaching between UCC and TCD. If someone studies hard, sure they may get a higher grade than someone who doesn't put in the same effort. However, I'm disputing the idea that a 1.1 degree in Medicine from TCD is better than a 1.1 degree in Medicine from UCC.
I think it's a bit pretentious to go around thinking you've a better degree than someone who has attained the same degree in another university simply because your degree was awarded by TCD and theirs wasn't. It's something that I wouldn't have time for and there are a lot of people that feel the same.
There are many people who are eligible to study in TCD but choose not to. A lot of TCD heads seem to think everyone hopes to get into TCD and other universities and institutes of learning are 'fallbacks'. I was asked by an undergrad student in TCD if I'd applied to do my MA there after not making the cut for the undergrad. He was rather incredulous when I told him that UCC had always been my first choice for my undergraduate study and I'd never had TCD on the CAO. I'm sure he assumed I didn't get the points for my course there and that I was trying to cover it up.
An absolutely ridiculous attitude.
I came across many fantastic students in other colleges during my college days. One girl in particular stood out. She got Student of the Year every year in UCC, never achieved below a First and recently got accepted to study for a Ph.D (in Cambridge, if that makes a difference to you :P). I'm sure though her undergraduate degree isn't as good as its TCD equivalent...after all, the best students go to TCD not UCC :rolleyes:
I am equally as proud of my degree from UCC as I am for my degree from TCD. As I said, there is more of an intellectual vibe around the place in TCD. However, not everyone chooses a college for solely that reason. And there really wasn't any difference in the quality of teaching or the quality of degree content.
What's the point of going to university if you don't enjoy studying the course you chose?
I absolutely loved my undergrad course and I quite enjoyed my MA. I just don't enjoy studying. I don't think this is unusual? :P I'd much rather go out and have fun than stay in studying. I was talking about people who genuinely enjoy studying i.e. they would rather study than go out socialising etc. I obviously studied when necessary and I'm very passionate about my subject. :cool:0 -
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@ViveLaVie
I think when some people say that a degree from TCD is better, I think they may be actually trying to imply that it would be better to have a degree from TCD. As TCD has a great reputation in Ireland (or so told), it is often said that employers would see a level 8 degree of subject X in some lesser reputable college in the country, and then the same but from TCD. Not only does the whole "intellectual reputation" come into account here, but the fact that it takes a hefty amount of points for the most part to get into TCD, then employers may see this as someone having worked hard before college, and hard in college (especially the attitude I came across that "it must be harder to study in TCD" - I found quite a few people to think this).
I certainly don't think that a degree from another college is in any way inferior to a degree from TCD, but what has to be brought into consideration is what does this degree tell one about the person who owns it. TCD degree taught him A, B, C, D, F, G, & I, while the other college taught him A, B, E, & F - the degree itself may not confer extra value, but it depends what one can spout about what was learned in order to attain the degree. If TCD for the most part teaches more in certain subjects over other ones, then perhaps this is how it can be seen as having a better degree. I don't like to say this so please challenge any problems you see with this - it's just a take on what may be implied here - I'm sure there are enough people who think that regardless of particular instances, a degree in TCD is just whole-heartedly better, but I'm not one of them :P
Hmm. I agree that competition to get into TCD is higher, for the most part, than other colleges in Ireland. However, personally I have little mass on the Leaving Cert. as an indicator of intelligence. LC results can be used as a barometer to measure hard work, perhaps. However, this is not always the case either. The LC is nothing more than an exercise in memorisation and regurgitation imo.
That said, it is probable that intelligent and/or hardworking people tend to gain better results in the LC. Going on that, it may be the case that TCD has a larger percentage of intelligent and/or hardworking students than another college.
However, even if this is so, it doesn't mean that there are only unintelligent and lazy students elsewhere. Other colleges also require a hefty number of points for several courses. As well as that, someone may do poorly in school for a number of reasons, but may excel in college.
Any exams and continuous assessment submitted in college is assessed primarily by a lecturer, but further by an external examiner. The external examiners are independent of the colleges and aim to keep the standard balanced across the country. It seems likely then that a 1.1 achieved in UCC is the same as a 1.1 in TCD.
I think the perception is that TCD is better because getting in in the first place is harder. However, this has no relevance to the quality of the degree, but rather the competition for the places. The degrees are the same. I'm fairly sure content in TCD is not any more expansive or in depth than in other colleges. In my experience, it's the same. In fact, I actually preferred the teaching style in UCC
If someone looks at a CV and sees X has 500 points in the LC and a 2.1 degree in Science from UCC and Y has 500 points and a 2.1 degree in Science from TCD then I would assume they see two candidates on an equal level. They may make a judgement call further to that depending on their own perceptions i.e. they may think TCD students are more pretentious and hence prefer to hire the UCC graduate or they may think the TCD student has a better degree and prefer to hire them.
When I applied to TCD for my MA I submitted my UCC transcript, detailing what modules I had studied and a breakdown of my results. I was accepted into the course. I know of people that had the same undergrad from TCD that applied and didn't get in. In this case, TCD saw my UCC degree as having as much value as a TCD degree. Likewise, that girl I mentioned earlier got into Cambridge on the strength of her degree in UCC. I think people need to stop looking at the little black line that says TCD and start looking at the person as a whole, considering other things as well. I imagine this is what lecturers and employers do, unless they are very prejudiced.
So it would seem we agree that people assume students from TCD are intelligent and hardworking. However, I believe the same assumptions can be made from viewing results achieved in other colleges. As well as that, the assumption made about a TCD head is not always a good one. Nearly every time someone asks me where I studied and I say TCD I get judged immediately.
Do you have any concrete examples of degrees in TCD that explore more of the subject than their equivalents in other colleges? Feel free to challenge anything I said also! I think I got the gist of your post but do say if I misinterpreted and went off in a tangent! :cool:0 -
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Hmm. I agree that competition to get into TCD is higher, for the most part, than other colleges in Ireland. However, personally I have little mass on the Leaving Cert. as an indicator of intelligence. LC results can be used as a barometer to measure hard work, perhaps. However, this is not always the case either. The LC is nothing more than an exercise in memorisation and regurgitation imo.
That said, it is probable that intelligent and/or hardworking people tend to gain better results in the LC. Going on that, it may be the case that TCD has a larger percentage of intelligent and/or hardworking students than another college.
However, even if this is so, it doesn't mean that there are only unintelligent and lazy students elsewhere. Other colleges also require a hefty number of points for several courses. As well as that, someone may do poorly in school for a number of reasons, but may excel in college.
Any exams and continuous assessment submitted in college is assessed primarily by a lecturer, but further by an external examiner. The external examiners are independent of the colleges and aim to keep the standard balanced across the country. It seems likely then that a 1.1 achieved in UCC is the same as a 1.1 in TCD.
I think the perception is that TCD is better because getting in in the first place is harder. However, this has no relevance to the quality of the degree, but rather the competition for the places. The degrees are the same. I'm fairly sure content in TCD is not any more expansive or in depth than in other colleges. In my experience, it's the same. In fact, I actually preferred the teaching style in UCC
If someone looks at a CV and sees X has 500 points in the LC and a 2.1 degree in Science from UCC and Y has 500 points and a 2.1 degree in Science from TCD then I would assume they see two candidates on an equal level. They may make a judgement call further to that depending on their own perceptions i.e. they may think TCD students are more pretentious and hence prefer to hire the UCC graduate or they may think the TCD student has a better degree and prefer to hire them.
When I applied to TCD for my MA I submitted my UCC transcript, detailing what modules I had studied and a breakdown of my results. I was accepted into the course. I know of people that had the same undergrad from TCD that applied and didn't get in. In this case, TCD saw my UCC degree as having as much value as a TCD degree. Likewise, that girl I mentioned earlier got into Cambridge on the strength of her degree in UCC. I think people need to stop looking at the little black line that says TCD and start looking at the person as a whole, considering other things as well. I imagine this is what lecturers and employers do, unless they are very prejudiced.
So it would seem we agree that people assume students from TCD are intelligent and hardworking. However, I believe the same assumptions can be made from viewing results achieved in other colleges. As well as that, the assumption made about a TCD head is not always a good one. Nearly every time someone asks me where I studied and I say TCD I get judged immediately.
Do you have any concrete examples of degrees in TCD that explore more of the subject than their equivalents in other colleges? Feel free to challenge anything I said also! I think I got the gist of your post but do say if I misinterpreted and went off in a tangent! :cool:
Oh not at all! You got what I was saying, and I agree with everything you say too (especially the leaving cert and college examiners grading etc.)! I was just pointing out what others may think, and I think we're both right that in the end it will just depend on people's attitude, and you make a good point that TCD can easily stimulate a negative response (e.g., if people do believe it is for all the yuppies and that they would be arrogant). As for some concrete examples, psychology is a good example of being different in particular colleges. As far as I am aware, TCD psychology focuses more on neuroscience, while Maynooth is more behaviourist (a friend of mine studied psychology in Maynooth). I may be wrong in classifying which college is more inclined towards, but there is some difference, at least in other colleges too. I'm not too sure of the details, but there is a difference somewhere :PNearly every time someone asks me where I studied and I say TCD I get judged immediately.
Yup same here, some people even assumed it must be very expensive to get into TCD (as well as one of those sarcastic sounding "whooo" noises at the beginning) :P when in fairness if it wasn't for a grant, I'd never be in college!
Anyway, I feel I should answer the OP's question too.
When I started off in my first year, I knew nobody at all. I even transferred straightaway to a smaller class where everyone knew each other at that point and I still pretty much knew no one bar the odd person or two I could say hi to but never really get a chance to engage with much. Even before I knew anyone, I felt comfortable around the college. Whether walking around campus, the Arts Block or in the library for examples, I always felt like there was this nice atmosphere - as if a security around campus. Then when I actually got to know people well, then naturally enough, college was that bit better. How did I get to know them? I felt comfortable talking to them (as shy as I was back then), and they approached me too - I have never come across so many nice people bundled together in one place!
Of course, I'm sure not everyone is pleasant, and that goes for the lecturers too. Once you find your friends though, then this college may start to feel homely - it has that nice vibe to it. I'm sure other colleges have it too, but at least I can say that from my own experience, that can happen. I cannot account for many students though, (about 16,000?
) but I'm sure there are those who would say similar. And as I point out, even before you find your friends, you may feel quite comfortable being here. 
I cannot vouch much for the societies and clubs. Just finding your feet in college is important, and as I write here, I'm glad to tell you OP (from my experience at least), TCD is a comfortable ground to settle on.
(No Father Jack moments: "Are those my feet!?")0 -
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Commenting on the social life in Trinity without joining any clubs or socs is more than a little misleading.
Trinity's social life - perhaps more than any other college in Ireland - is heavily based in societies and clubs. I got involved in 2 in my first year and I had 2-3 events to attend nearly every week. And there are societies for everything with a ton of active, enthusiastic members and plenty of events. There is far too much great stuff (From debates, plays and comedy nights to good old-fashioned piss-ups and parties) on in a given week for anybody to go to. Haven't even mentioned the awesome range of ssports clubs but that's more because I've just eaten a take-away and more than hate myself for not going to the gym more last year. Anywho, Trinity's active societies and clubs are one of its strongest selling points and are a great way to meet new friends who like the same stuff you do.
To the OP, Trinity is a great university to go to. The campus is beautiful, not too big and you are right in the centre of the city which really can't be underestimated. As mentioned above the social life is fantastic if you get involved in wider college life, not just your course/year. The people are great too, a complete breath of fresh air from where I came from myself. There's a great, open/liberal, fun-loving atmosphere and a real pro-learning/intellectual culture that you may not have had if you are coming from a big state school like I did.
Some courses can be pretty demanding but feck it if you won't go out on the tear regularly anyway. Work hard, play hard. (Unless studying for schols in which case: Work hard, hate yourself)
I pretty much agree with everything in this post.0 -
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Hmm. I agree that competition to get into TCD is higher, for the most part, than other colleges in Ireland. However, personally I have little mass on the Leaving Cert. as an indicator of intelligence. LC results can be used as a barometer to measure hard work, perhaps. However, this is not always the case either. The LC is nothing more than an exercise in memorisation and regurgitation imo.
That said, it is probable that intelligent and/or hardworking people tend to gain better results in the LC. Going on that, it may be the case that TCD has a larger percentage of intelligent and/or hardworking students than another college.
However, even if this is so, it doesn't mean that there are only unintelligent and lazy students elsewhere. Other colleges also require a hefty number of points for several courses. As well as that, someone may do poorly in school for a number of reasons, but may excel in college.
Any exams and continuous assessment submitted in college is assessed primarily by a lecturer, but further by an external examiner. The external examiners are independent of the colleges and aim to keep the standard balanced across the country. It seems likely then that a 1.1 achieved in UCC is the same as a 1.1 in TCD.
I think the perception is that TCD is better because getting in in the first place is harder. However, this has no relevance to the quality of the degree, but rather the competition for the places. The degrees are the same. I'm fairly sure content in TCD is not any more expansive or in depth than in other colleges. In my experience, it's the same. In fact, I actually preferred the teaching style in UCC
If someone looks at a CV and sees X has 500 points in the LC and a 2.1 degree in Science from UCC and Y has 500 points and a 2.1 degree in Science from TCD then I would assume they see two candidates on an equal level. They may make a judgement call further to that depending on their own perceptions i.e. they may think TCD students are more pretentious and hence prefer to hire the UCC graduate or they may think the TCD student has a better degree and prefer to hire them.
When I applied to TCD for my MA I submitted my UCC transcript, detailing what modules I had studied and a breakdown of my results. I was accepted into the course. I know of people that had the same undergrad from TCD that applied and didn't get in. In this case, TCD saw my UCC degree as having as much value as a TCD degree. Likewise, that girl I mentioned earlier got into Cambridge on the strength of her degree in UCC. I think people need to stop looking at the little black line that says TCD and start looking at the person as a whole, considering other things as well. I imagine this is what lecturers and employers do, unless they are very prejudiced.
So it would seem we agree that people assume students from TCD are intelligent and hardworking. However, I believe the same assumptions can be made from viewing results achieved in other colleges. As well as that, the assumption made about a TCD head is not always a good one. Nearly every time someone asks me where I studied and I say TCD I get judged immediately.
Do you have any concrete examples of degrees in TCD that explore more of the subject than their equivalents in other colleges? Feel free to challenge anything I said also! I think I got the gist of your post but do say if I misinterpreted and went off in a tangent! :cool:
You're not gonna like this, but: I had a friend in UCC science, and we often compared notes. The stuff he was doing in 3rd year, I had done in 2nd. The stuff he was doing in 4th year, I had done in 3rd, and his course was more specialised than mine. That's purely an anecdote and it's not possible to make inferences based on that, but really, if you think for a second that UCC is as academic a university as Trinity, you're fooling yourself. You said it yourself: TCD attracts people who love to study. It's far more academic, the standard is higher, and that's why it's always top of the rankings. That's just how it is. There's nothing pretentious about stating a fact. Is Cambridge not a better university than Glasgow? And does Cambridge's being better mean that Glasgow is somehow bad? The same applies to Trinity and UCC - nobody's saying it's bad, but Trinity is better.0 -
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How can you admit on the one hand that Trinity is the best university in Ireland, but then go on to say that that has no baring whatsoever on the quality of degree that you get. A first from Trinity is better than a first from a less well ranked college, in the same way that a first from Oxford is better than a first from Trinity, and a first from Cambridge is better than a first from anywhere else. The idea that a degree is a degree amounts to the idea that all colleges are the same and it doesn't matter where you go ignores the vast differences between colleges, which you've already admitted exist.
And in no way to external examiners keep the quality of firsts uniform between colleges, there's simply no mechanism in place in order to ensure that's the case. It's not like there's a marking conference they all attend.
Fixed your post
I don't think there is a big difference in the quality of degree. I think Trinity is harder to get into. I think Trinity has a better reputation historically. Trinity is ranked better than the other colleges in Ireland for more than the quality of its teaching.
Put it another way. Is a 2.1 degree in Trinity better than a 1.1 in another university? I would say no. There are people who would say I'm wrong, that any degree in TCD is better than any degree elsewhere in Ireland. This is the kind of elitism I don't have time for.
All colleges are the same in that they award the same degrees. These degrees have national and international standards. It might be more difficult to get into a 'better' college but the opportunity to fully engage with your discipline is the same everywhere. What is it that makes TCD degrees better? The lecturers? The content? The marking standard?I don't see how the heck an entire extra year of education and the associated 60 credit hours could have no impact on someone's degree. That's literally impossible, unless either) all a 4 year course did was take a 3 year course and split the final year into two or b) 3 year courses manage to squeeze 120 credit hours into 3 year, which isn't what happens. All your acceptance into a postgrad course over people from Trinity indicates is that one's degree isn't everything, and that a number of factors went into determining who got places in that postgrad course.
I think it makes you more knowledgeable in a specialised area but I don't think that the skills you have acquired are any better than those acquired in a shorter degree. Someone could have a 1.1. degree in History from UCC and be absolutely brilliant, as is the girl I mentioned in an earlier post. Equally somebody might have a 1.1 degree in History from TCD but might not be half as brilliant. Does the second person have a better degree? I don't think so.
Colleges take other factors into consideration when accepting postgraduate applications because they recognise that the modules studied and the length of the degree are not everything. The other factors involved in my application were a sample of my writing and references from my lecturers. What do they indicate? How you apply the skills you learned, the level to which you engage critically with a topic and how you have contributed to classes with your lecturers. How you use the skills acquired in a degree is perhaps more important than having studied an extra sixty credits of Medieval History.0 -
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Fixed your post
I don't think there is a big difference in the quality of degree. I think Trinity is harder to get into. I think Trinity has a better reputation historically. Trinity is ranked better than the other colleges in Ireland for more than the quality of its teaching.
Put it another way. Is a 2.1 degree in Trinity better than a 1.1 in another university? I would say no. There are people who would say I'm wrong, that any degree in TCD is better than any degree elsewhere in Ireland. This is the kind of elitism I don't have time for.
All colleges are the same in that they award the same degrees. These degrees have national and international standards. It might be more difficult to get into a 'better' college but the opportunity to fully engage with your discipline is the same everywhere. What is it that makes TCD degrees better? The lecturers? The content? The marking standard?
I'm not saying that, it might be true when comparing some institutions, but i wouldn't say it's true generally. I'll I'm saying is, all other things being equal, a 2.1 TCD degree is better than a 2.1 degree from any other Institution. All of the factors you mentioned make TCD degrees better, plus some other ones, like the undermentioned fact that TCD is harder to get into, and so you're competing against people who, on average, are more intelligent and/or harder working.I think it makes you more knowledgeable in a specialised area but I don't think that the skills you have acquired are any better than those acquired in a shorter degree. Someone could have a 1.1. degree in History from UCC and be absolutely brilliant, as is the girl I mentioned in an earlier post. Equally somebody might have a 1.1 degree in History from TCD but might not be half as brilliant. Does the second person have a better degree? I don't think so.
At absolute minimum, it makes you more knowledgeable in a given subject, more so than with a 3 year course. So even if it doesn't make you any more skilled (which it plausibly does) it's still 'better' by virtue of the fact that you simply learn more. And yeah, I'd say the second person does have a better degree. That doesn't preclude the UCC person from being smarter, but just looking at their degree and nothing else, the TCD one is better.Colleges take other factors into consideration when accepting postgraduate applications because they recognise that the modules studied and the length of the degree are not everything. The other factors involved in my application were a sample of my writing and references from my lecturers. What do they indicate? How you apply the skills you learned, the level to which you engage critically with a topic and how you have contributed to classes with your lecturers. How you use the skills acquired in a degree is perhaps more important than having studied an extra sixty credits of Medieval History.
You're right, and I don't think anyone is arguing that TCD students are better in every way. All people mean when they say that Trinity is a better college is what I said above; all else being equal, a Trinity degree is (pretty much always) better than a comparable degree from any other Irish university, in terms of the competence gained by a student in the subject which they study.0 -
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Precisely: what does the extra 1 stand for in '1.1'? As Kwekubo said double firsts exist elsewhere, such as Oxford and Cambridge, but to use it when talking about a UCC or TCD degree is just wrong.
I had assumed that a '1.1.' was shorthand for a First. I apologise for using an incorrect signifier. I suggest you extend your pedantry to your own posts.FFS there's no such thing as a '1.1' degree. It's a First, or do they not teach you that in UCC?
I find this incredibly condescending. This is an example of the elitist attitude I eschew.I'm not saying that, it might be true when comparing some institutions, but i wouldn't say it's true generally. I'll I'm saying is, all other things being equal, a 2.1 TCD degree is better than a 2.1 degree from any other Institution. All of the factors you mentioned make TCD degrees better, plus some other ones, like the undermentioned fact that TCD is harder to get into, and so you're competing against people who, on average, are more intelligent and/or harder working.
Perhaps you're right. I am just saying that personally I think how effectively someone engages with their discipline is more important. I think that somebody who brilliantly engages with their subject matter at a 'bad' university can outstrip somebody who doesn't possess the skill to engage at a high level with their subject at a 'good' university. Third level education should foster independent thinking and originality. It's perfectly possible for somebody to write an absolutely ground-breaking dissertation at UL but their degree may not be seen as equal to a degree from TCD. That is narrow-minded.At absolute minimum, it makes you more knowledgeable in a given subject, more so than with a 3 year course. So even if it doesn't make you any more skilled (which it plausibly does) it's still 'better' by virtue of the fact that you simply learn more. And yeah, I'd say the second person does have a better degree. That doesn't preclude the UCC person from being smarter, but just looking at their degree and nothing else, the TCD one is better.
I think the problem is that people generally don't see it like that though. They think a TCD head is better regardless of mitigating circumstances. They see the person as better.You're right, and I don't think anyone is arguing that TCD students are better in every way. All people mean when they say that Trinity is a better college is what I said above; all else being equal, a Trinity degree is (pretty much always) better than a comparable degree from any other Irish university, in terms of the competence gained by a student in the subject which they study.
Some people do argue this though. I have come across this attitude numerous times.To echo Andrew above, the extra year of study that is part of a Trinity degree is an extra year of higher-level study, as in the fact that you get a third and a fourth year means that you will have spent two years studying the more specialised, demanding material that you encounter in modules pitched at 3rd/4th year students, versus someone who has only one year of such experience from a 3-year degree. To use your example of history, the extra year means that you get to take another of what are known as 'List 1' courses, which are heavily primary source-based and demand a lot of original research as part of their assessment. Now, I don't think you learn any extra skills from taking this extra course (because you will have taken such a course in third year, and been introduced to the skills of source analysis), but the extra year allows you to really deepen your level of engagement with primary sources, as well as encounter different types of sources: for instance my third year course involved a lot of early printed (16th century) material, whereas my fourth year one introduced me to lots of legal documents (along with the necessary skills to interpret them), something that you wouldn't get to do with a three year degree. Even Cambridge, your lauded example, only study one of these courses, in their third year, and the university regularly bemoans the fact that they cannot offer them earlier, but the students simply don't have the source analysis skills to tackle them in their second year. I should know because I'm at Cambridge now, and my source interpretation and knowledge has been a consistent area of praise, probably because I had more exposure to it as part of my undergrad training.
I don't think I 'lauded' Cambridge anywhere
You and Andrew have pointed out that the increased knowledge afforded by an additional year of study at undergraduate level is beneficial and advantageous. I can concede that a graduate of a four year course is in a slightly better position than a graduate of a three year one (although I still firmly believe that the latter could surpass the former in terms of skill application).
Do you think your TCD undergraduate degree is better than its Cambridge equivalent? If not, why? Cambridge is the number one university in the world at the moment. How could you be in a better position than a Cambridge graduate? If we're going by ranking and reputation, a Cambridge graduate would surely be at an advantage over you. And yet a less prestigious university has trained you better in source interpretation than Cambridge could have.
This is what my argument boils down to. People look blindly to the institution awarding the degree and instantly award a prestige to the degree based on that without considering course content, teaching quality, student participation, independent thinking displayed by the student, the student themselves etc.
A good example of this is an engineering degree. Universities are considered to be more academically prestigious than Institutes of Technology. Yet engineering degrees from ITs are usually of a higher quality than those awarded by universities. Consistently people will argue that Civil Engineering in UCC is better than its equivalent in CIT precisely because it is awarded by a university. The quality of a degree is not solely determined by its awarding institution in my opinion.0 -
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![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
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