Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

A couple of rules of the road to clarify

  • 27-08-2012 08:31PM
    #1
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭


    I've done a couple of searches, but things like 'roundabout' and 'undertaking' are pretty common terms so it's hard to find relevant threads....

    A couple of common things I notice a lot when driving made me want to clarify the rules - I believe my understanding is correct but I just want to be sure.
    • 1. When approaching a roundabout that has 2 lanes on entrance, if the straight ahead exit (2nd exit) only has one lane (not one of the ones with 2 exit lanes that merge into one, just a simple one lane exit), it is not permitted to enter the roundabout using the right lane and then exit on the 2nd exit straight ahead. Instead, you must enter from the lefthand lane (unless that is marked for left turn only) and exit, indicating left after passing the first exit, from that lane.

      I often find people, who seem to know the roundabout and know it has one exit lane, approach in the righthand lane (when there's traffic making it slower in the left lane), and then floor it to try overtake a car in the left lane while on the roundabout and get to the 2nd exit first. When this happens to me, I yield to avoid a collision but I feel they're in the wrong - is that correct?
    • 2. When approaching a roundabout with 3 lanes on entry, if exiting from the fourth or later exit, you must enter the roundabout in the rightmost lane, indicating right until after the 3rd exit (if leaving at the 4th exit), then indicate left and exit. If exiting at the 3rd exit, you should be in the middle lane, but can you also choose to be in the rightmost lane?

      I'm thinking of the Walkinstown Roundabout in Dublin 12 here and it's generally mayhem with random stuff happening all over the place, but I drive it everyday and approach in the rightmost lane and exit at the 4th exit and I'm surprised at how often someone who has approached in the middle lane exits at the 4th exit so almost cuts me off. It would also be good to check if I'm correct when exiting at the 3rd exit that I have to be in the middle lane, and that the rightmost lane is not an option.
    • 3. What's the legality of undertaking on the M50? If you are driving at the speed limit in the leftmost lane and there is someone in the middle lane (overtaking lane 1?) doing 80Km/h and you pass them on the inside, is that permitted?

      Reason I ask is I often see someone in the rightmost lane (overtaking lane 2?) in the act of overtaking a slow moving car in the middle lane and someone absolutely bombs down the leftmost lane (almost as if they know it's a dodgy manoeuvre so want to get it done quickly) and then fly out into the rightmost lane. Two wrongs don't make a right and I think that's a very dangerous move as the person in the middle lane may decide to move into the left lane if their being overtaken makes them cop-on that they have no business being in the middle lane if they are not overtaking and are just tottering along at 80km/h.

    Thanks for any help to get definitive clarity on these questions, just want to be fully informed on these scenarios.


Comments

  • #2
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    1: Should be death penalty for going into the wrong lane to avoid a queue and flooring it past everyone else. Few make it past me.
    When going straight through a roundabout and the exit is on or before the 12 o'clock position, you use the left hand lane. 1st, 2nd exit and so on, is not really used anymore, because what if the rule states 2nd exit, but it is three quarters round the roundabout? Then people get confused.
    Use the clock system. Anything up to 12 o'clock, left lane, anything after, right lane.

    2:Walkinstown roundabout? You're on your own!

    3: If you're in a line of traffic that is moving faster in one lane than the other line that's ok.
    But overtaking on the inside is a no-no. Having said that, it seems commonplace, but get the wrong cop and...
    But maybe the Traffic Corps will decide to actually enforce some rules for a change, instead of just pointing hardriers down the road.


  • #3
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    Thanks for the response, but I know how to manage those situations in practice like you mention, what I want to do is to confirm what is technically the right and wrong thing in each situation.


    This Rules Of The Road page     is remarkably vague on exactly what the correct lane is in for each scenario.

    There's been nearly 200 views of this thread but only one response and nothing definitive - is it that people don't know the answers, it's poorly worded, or just not bothered (again, if this info is readily available elsewhere, just let me know, it's not laziness - just can't find the info for these specific cases).

    As an aside just in case it's of interest to anyone, before posting this thread I was going to ask if trailers are permitted on motorways as I thought there were not, but looking at them referenced on this page, it seems they are allowed to use the motorway, just not the rightmost lane.


  • #4
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    [QUOTE=.

    There's been nearly 200 views of this thread but only one response and nothing definitive - is it that people don't know the answers, it's poorly worded, or just not bothered (again, if this info is readily available elsewhere, just let me know, it's not laziness - just can't find the info for these specific cases).

    .[/QUOTE]

    no its just that its been done to death....the rules are clear as a bell.


  • #5
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    corktina wrote: »
    [QUOTE=.

    There's been nearly 200 views of this thread but only one response and nothing definitive - is it that people don't know the answers, it's poorly worded, or just not bothered (again, if this info is readily available elsewhere, just let me know, it's not laziness - just can't find the info for these specific cases).

    .

    no its just that its been done to death....the rules are clear as a bell.[/Quote]

    The OP is poorly worded.


  • #6
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,597 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    FrankGrimes wrote: »
    • 1. When approaching a roundabout that has 2 lanes on entrance, if the straight ahead exit (2nd exit) only has one lane (not one of the ones with 2 exit lanes that merge into one, just a simple one lane exit), it is not permitted to enter the roundabout using the right lane and then exit on the 2nd exit straight ahead. Instead, you must enter from the lefthand lane (unless that is marked for left turn only) and exit, indicating left after passing the first exit, from that lane.

    A road user isn't necessarily going to know how many lanes are on each exit from the other side of the roundabout. Besides, you should always yield to traffic from the right, so if a two-lane roundabout is merging into a single-lane exit, you should theoretically yield to the car in the right lane.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    corktina wrote: »
    no its just that its been done to death....the rules are clear as a bell.

    Thanks. But given I've pointed out that it was difficult to find answers to these specific questions via the Search function, and I've highlighted ambiguities in the Rules Of The Road website, it'd be very helpful if you, or anyone else, could point out where these specific scenarios have been covered before?

    The very reason I'd like to clarify these points is that I feel there's some people on the roads who feel it's clear as a bell that their understanding of the rules is correct, but it's not always necessarily so. 'Don't be at yourself's post here is one example.


  • #8
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    The OP is poorly worded.

    Thanks for that. I've reworded the questions below to remove some of the extra details and additional context - I think the below now clearly explain the specific scenarios I'd appreciate help getting clarity on, but please let me know if it's still not clear.


    1.When approaching a roundabout that has 2 lanes on entrance, if the 2nd exit (straight ahead) only has one lane on exit, is it permitted to enter the roundabout by the righthand lane and exit at the 2nd exit?


    2. When approaching a roundabout with 3 lanes on entry, if exiting from the 4th exit, must you enter via the rightmost lane, or is entering via the middle lane permitted?


    3. On a motorway, if you are driving at the speed limit in the leftmost lane and there is someone in the middle lane doing 80Km/h and you pass them on the inside, is that permitted?


  • #9
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    Dont be at yourself wrote: »
    A road user isn't necessarily going to know how many lanes are on each exit from the other side of the roundabout. Besides, you should always yield to traffic from the right, so if a two-lane roundabout is merging into a single-lane exit, you should theoretically yield to the car in the right lane.

    The roundabouts that prompted me to ask this question are small enough that the driver entering it can easily see the other side so knows there's only one exit - my hunch is it's mainly drivers that know the area and looking to use the roundabout to get a jump on those in the left lane. Perrystown, Dublin 12 has a few examples.

    The below is a statement from the Rules Of The Road site here which at worst indicates your view is incorrect, at best highlights why clarifying it would be beneficial for at least one of us.

    "Sometimes a roundabout exit with two or more lanes may narrow into one lane over a short distance. Drivers in the lane which is terminated should yield to traffic in the other lane."

    The roundabouts I'm thinking of have only one lane on exit, not 2 lanes merging into one. But for cases where 2 lanes merge into one on exit, it is always the rightmost lane that terminates, which suggests the driver in the righthand lane should yield to the driver in the left, with the 'yield to the right' rule not applying in this case. For an exit with only 1 lane on exit, how can the above be read as anything other than indicating that the driver in the righthand lane should yield to the driver in the left lane, given it is the left lane that continues into the exit with the righthand lane being terminated?


  • #10
    mitosis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    FrankGrimes wrote: »
    Thanks for that. I've reworded the questions below to remove some of the extra details and additional context - I think the below now clearly explain the specific scenarios I'd appreciate help getting clarity on, but please let me know if it's still not clear.


    1.When approaching a roundabout that has 2 lanes on entrance, if the 2nd exit (straight ahead) only has one lane on exit, is it permitted to enter the roundabout by the righthand lane and exit at the 2nd exit?

    Not normally. If the road markings instruct it, but the right lane is usually for going round more than halfway on the roundabout. How do I know there is only one exit lane?

    2. When approaching a roundabout with 3 lanes on entry, if exiting from the 4th exit, must you enter via the rightmost lane, or is entering via the middle lane permitted?

    Grey area, but rightmost would seem more correct.

    3. On a motorway, if you are driving at the speed limit in the leftmost lane and there is someone in the middle lane doing 80Km/h and you pass them on the inside, is that permitted?

    No

    My beliefs based on experience and instruction.


  • #11
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    mitosis wrote: »
    FrankGrimes wrote: »
    Thanks for that. I've reworded the questions below to remove some of the extra details and additional context - I think the below now clearly explain the specific scenarios I'd appreciate help getting clarity on, but please let me know if it's still not clear.


    1.When approaching a roundabout that has 2 lanes on entrance, if the 2nd exit (straight ahead) only has one lane on exit, is it permitted to enter the roundabout by the righthand lane and exit at the 2nd exit?

    Not normally. If the road markings instruct it, but the right lane is usually for going round more than halfway on the roundabout. How do I know there is only one exit lane?

    2. When approaching a roundabout with 3 lanes on entry, if exiting from the 4th exit, must you enter via the rightmost lane, or is entering via the middle lane permitted?

    Grey area, but rightmost would seem more correct.

    3. On a motorway, if you are driving at the speed limit in the leftmost lane and there is someone in the middle lane doing 80Km/h and you pass them on the inside, is that permitted?

    No

    My beliefs based on experience and instruction.

    +1


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    im invisible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭im invisible


    1. no, but...
    2. yes, but...

    3. NO!


  • #13
    MrDerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 999 ✭✭✭MrDerp


    Not to be smart or anything, but what difference do the rules of the road make to the behaviour of other drivers?

    In the case of 1, drivers do either lane. Just be wide and get on with it, it's working for the most part as people avoid crashes.
    I've a roundabout on my commute where drivers take a 3 o clock exit (which im also planning to take) from the left lane to avoid queuing and cut me off. Pain in the hole.

    Walkinstown roundabout was once part of my life. I used to get in the inside at your peril, watch for dive bombers from the inside to the exit you're passing, go from middle to outside one exit before yours, have 360 ninja vision.
    My point here is, there's too many drivers who can't handle a simple roundabout to be worrying about correctness on a magic one.

    M50 and middle hoggers? Be safe, check your mirrors and blind spots, and do what your conscience and mood tells you to do. The correct thing is to sit behind in the middle lane and wait for a safe opportunity to get into the right lane and overtake. Sometimes, for me, it's safer to go into the left lane, as the speed diff between middle and right is too great and cars behind me are beating me to the punch


  • #14
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    Thanks for the replies folks - confirms my understanding was pretty much correct, though there's still plenty of grey area.

    Mr Derp, in reality you're dead right, knowing what's technically right and wrong won't affect other drivers' behaviour, but if it can at least be certain that what I'm doing myself is correct, that's worth clarifying. Knowing that the driver effectively trying to overtake using the rightlane and get to the 2nd exit first is in the wrong wouldn't mean that I suddenly start cutting him off aggressively. It'd just mean I'd know I didn't need to yield to him, unless my not yielding was to put one of us at risk of collision.

    I'm plenty wide on the roads, but, still, these are every day scenarios so it should be possible to get definitive clarity. I've copied and pasted my questions to the RSA address on the rules website so I'll see what I get back and post it here if it might be helpful to anyone else.

    It would seem that a sticky clarifying commonly misunderstood rules of the road might be no bad thing?


  • #15
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,565 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    From the point of view of actual law (not the rules of the road), roundabouts are just very curvy regular roads! The only mention of roundabouts in the road traffic acts is to say that you must go around clockwise and yield to traffic coming from the right. Exactly the same as approaching a junction with a one-way major road.

    If you apply the method of dividing the roundabout into into small sections of regular straight road, or indeed imagine it straightened out, it helps to make sense of most situations, the major exception being that you indicate right if you're going greater that 180 degrees or past the second exit or whatever. Just follow the road markings and it should (depending on the road marking crew) make sense.

    218785.jpg


Advertisement