Newly Qualified Teachers Protest

Rasheed · 24-10-2012 08:33PM #1

Was just watching the news. 2000 newly qualified teachers protested outside the Dail today about their wages.

A newly qualified teacher in 2009 started off on €41,000. Newly qualified teachers are now starting out on €32,000 due to cut backs.

Am I missing something? What in the name of Jaysis are they complaining for? Do they realise we are in a recession? €32,000 a year seem more than fair to me.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1024/breaking6.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/teachers-protest-outside-dail-over-new-wage-structure-3271780.html

some random drunk · 24-10-2012 08:35PM

I'd love to be on 32,000 a year.

VinLieger · 24-10-2012 08:36PM

Yup dont really see the issue here, also blaming to government because their unions agreed to this through croke park is ass backwards. How about the more experienced teachers, of who there are more of, take a pay cut so these teachers can get a pay rise?

jester77 · 24-10-2012 08:36PM

The unions are such hypocrites, they screwed over the new teachers by not accepting to make cuts across the board and now they have the cheek to come out and protest.

Riamfada · 24-10-2012 08:38PM

I can't get a job in what I studied in college. Don't see me protesting bad life choices, I just cry myself to sleep like a normal person.

trishasaffron · 24-10-2012 08:39PM

Be fair! having your highlights done regularly is not cheap at all.

Rasheed · 24-10-2012 08:40PM

I actually can't get over their cheek to be honest.

Complaining about €32,000 a year? After 3/4 years in college?

Again, I thought I was missing something, it seems mental that they think they are being hard done by.

prettygurrly · 24-10-2012 08:40PM

yeah, i was very surprised at the protest. Where is benchmarking when it's the other way round eh? As a science graduate you're lucky to be starting on 19K nowadays or to have a job at all. We're no more or less educated than teachers and go through our own ridiculous working hours/stress/lack of personal time etc. but we are starting on ridiculous low pay in industry. I love teachers, what they do is a vocation but to be expecting to start at 32000 regardless if you're a mature student (who left a job to go back to college, i heard this on the radio today) or a young pup at 21 is insane in this day and age. Everyone has had a pay cut and yes it's unfair to be on less pay than their counterparts but talk to doctors/nurses/everyone else and you'll find the same story. Why do teachers feel that they're different?

ShiresV2 · 24-10-2012 08:40PM

€32,000 a year is very good for a graduate salary.

Seems just another sectional interest group shouting as loud as they can except this time the government isn't going to buy them off.

Madam_X · 24-10-2012 08:41PM

Oh the lazy anti teacher brigade - unable to fathom what teachers are actually responsible for. For all the grief they get/responsibility they have, they deserve good money/holidays.
That said, 32k isn't bad. Did they definitely start on 40-odd in 2009?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · 24-10-2012 08:43PM

Some serious condescension out of them. Young scuts only out the door of St Pat's, Mary I etc. who cannot for the life of them see why they aren't going to be starting out on the ludicrous wages that are the main reason they went for teaching in the first place. Yeah its a kick in the teeth but the country is in serious trouble, we can no more afford to be paying our teachers €32k+ starting out than we can afford to be paying our consultants €200k.

If ye don't like the pay on offer lads, ye have teaching qualifications, do one.

PC CDROM · 24-10-2012 08:45PM

Typical crap that got us where we are today.

Hi there so you want to be a teacher?

Oh yes please!

Well were are paying 32,000 a year and we think you would be good.

ehhh that not enough for me.

NEXT!

Thats how it should work......

VinLieger · 24-10-2012 08:45PM

Madam_X wrote: »

Oh the lazy anti teacher brigade - unable to fathom what teachers are actually responsible for. For all the grief they get/responsibility they have, they deserve good money/holidays.
That said, 32k isn't bad. Did they definitely start on 40-odd in 2009?

So they claim. Btw i dont think teachers are lazy and they deserve to be well paid but when the fvck are people in the public serviuce gonna cop on an realise theres no money to pay them? And as i said above blaming the government cus their unions screwed them 4 years ago is ridiculous

Toby Take a Bow · 24-10-2012 08:45PM

deccurley wrote: »

If ye don't like the pay on offer lads, ye have teaching qualifications, do one.

I guess when they started their course the pay that was on offer was the higher end.

Boombastic · 24-10-2012 08:46PM

the only thing issue here is that long time teachers wages and allowances haven't been cut aswell

Wanderer2010 · 24-10-2012 08:48PM

They are protesting about 32,000 because they are in a civil service mindset and are comparing their salary to that of other public service workers who earn a hige salary for example senior teachers at over 60k, consultants, government employees etc. In their eyes its unfair that they are joining the public sector at the 'low' wage of 32,000 when their colleagues are causing such controversy with their huge salaries and perks, its more an anger that they cant be included into that clique than it is trying to justify such a low wage. They dont feel solidarity with the private sector, they are mourning the old gravy train of boom-days teacher lifestyles.

Pilotdude5 · 24-10-2012 08:49PM

No sympathy for them really, Alot of pilots end up paying to work just so they can get experience.:( I am not in favour of that either

ted1 · 24-10-2012 08:51PM

Great graduate wage especially for someone with zero real world experience. 8 years under dept of education in primary school, 6 year under dept. Of education on secondary schools, 3 years under dept. Of education in college. Straight to work, under dept. Of education.

They should be on way less and be made learn real world skills. Like how buisness actually works.

Hootanany · 24-10-2012 08:51PM

All the rest of them should be brought down to 32k simple no more marches.

vamos! · 24-10-2012 08:52PM

some random drunk wrote: »

I'd love to be on 32,000 a year.

Go for a it! You will need a degree (3-4) years, a PGDE (1 year, 6k) and probably an MA to match the qualifications of other candidates. Warning though: 32k is for full time staff (I actually thought it had been cut to 27.5k). I don't know any new graduates on full hours. Be prepared to sub, move all over the country and if you are lucky to get your own hours, you may be expected to live on 8 or 10 hours work- over 5 days of course. Divide 32k or 27.5k by 22 and multiply by 8 or 10 for your wages.

Develop a thick skin. You may not need it in order to deal with 29 teenagers,some of whom will have learning and/or behavioural difficulties and little or no extra help but you will need it when Joe public starts to go on about how easy you have it and how you should be lucky to be paid at all. Imagine all those taxpayers paying your wages so you can read a few books between snoozes and lunches!!!

Enjoy your short hours and amazing holidays. Don't worry about planning. You can just open the book and read from it. You could give the odd test when you're hungover. Don't worry about correcting said test. Sure nobody cares. If you must insist on doing a bit of marking, make sure to do it during class. The little angels in your care will just read on quietly. If they don't you could belt them with a duster or kick them out of class. Sure that's what our teachers did when we were in school and we all lived.

I forgot to mention extra curricular. You may want to odd training session, orgainse a few debates and school trips. You can do all this extra work during class time of course, as you couldn't possibly stay past 3. You will have 32k to spend!

Best of luck!

prettygurrly · 24-10-2012 08:52PM

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

I guess when they started their course the pay that was on offer was the higher end.

We were all PROMISED amazing salaries on qualification. Speak to anyone in the private sector under the age of 30 and you'll see them on nothing like what the teachers are paid. I'm sorry but i just don't have any sympathy for them.

Rasheed · 24-10-2012 08:52PM

Madam_X wrote: »

Oh the lazy anti teacher brigade - unable to fathom what teachers are actually responsible for. For all the grief they get/responsibility they have, they deserve good money/holidays.
That said, 32k isn't bad. Did they definitely start on 40-odd in 2009?

I wouldn't be a teacher for all the holidays in the world. I completely understand the responsibility that the job entails, some of my best friends are teachers.

If the money was there, pay them well, BUT it's not. The country is up the shiiter and they are complaining about getting paid € 32,000 a year??

Its pure solid cheek in my opinion.

The outlaw · 24-10-2012 08:53PM

prettygurrly wrote: »

yeah, i was very surprised at the protest. Where is benchmarking when it's the other way round eh? As a science graduate you're lucky to be starting on 19K nowadays or to have a job at all. We're no more or less educated than teachers and go through our own ridiculous working hours/stress/lack of personal time etc. but we are starting on ridiculous low pay in industry. I love teachers, what they do is a vocation but to be expecting to start at 32000 regardless if you're a mature student (who left a job to go back to college, i heard this on the radio today) or a young pup at 21 is insane in this day and age. Everyone has had a pay cut and yes it's unfair to be on less pay than their counterparts but talk to doctors/nurses/everyone else and you'll find the same story. Why do teachers feel that they're different?

Also Trainee Accountants would be on that type of salary as well unless you get a job at a multinational maybe 25/26. So a teacher earns at least 28% more than that. Do teachers work 30% more than Accounting/Science Grads? - of course they don't

Boombastic · 24-10-2012 08:55PM

€32,000 for 36 weeks work. €888.888/week, Isn't that close to what the sergeant in the Gardai was earning??

poeticseraphim · 24-10-2012 08:56PM

People give out when there is no protest..then they give out when there is....it is always the unions who bring an end to austrity and hold govt to account.

People wanted protest...the unions are the only ones whoever do it with any organization or power.

They may be doing ok...but it is industrial action that changes regimes..unless you want the occupy everything hippie brigade who will achieve nothing.

When unions say no to austerity govts listen.....they can't push this through indefinitely...you want people protsting at austerity....there you go

The best way to get the govt to listen as a nation is to join them...seriously..you back the unions you have some power as people

ITS A CHEEK THOUGH YES

But seen wisely it is oppertunity.

Unless we are better off obeying and being the steady piig...and maybe we are ..i dunno..we shall see

PC CDROM · 24-10-2012 08:57PM

vamos! wrote: »

Go for a it! You will need a degree (3-4) years, a PGDE (1 year, 6k) and probably an MA to match the qualifications of other candidates. Warning though: 32k is for full time staff (I actually thought it had been cut to 27.5k). I don't know any new graduates on full hours. Be prepared to sub, move all over the country and if you are lucky to get your own hours, you may be expected to live on 8 or 10 hours work- over 5 days of course. Divide 32k or 27.5k by 22 and multiply by 8 or 10 for your wages.

Develop a thick skin. You may not need it in order to deal with 29 teenagers,some of whom will have learning and/or behavioural difficulties and little or no extra help but you will need it when Joe public starts to go on about how easy you have it and how you should be lucky to be paid at all. Imagine all those taxpayers paying your wages so you can read a few books between snoozes and lunches!!!

Enjoy your short hours and amazing holidays. Don't worry about planning. You can just open the book and read from it. You could give the odd test when you're hungover. Don't worry about correcting said test. Sure nobody cares. If you must insist on doing a bit of marking, make sure to do it during class. The little angels in your care will just read on quietly. If they don't you could belt them with a duster or kick them out of class. Sure that's what our teachers did when we were in school and we all lived.

I forgot to mention extra curricular. You may want to odd training session, orgainse a few debates and school trips. You can do all this extra work during class time of course, as you couldn't possibly stay past 3. You will have 32k to spend!

Best of luck!

Here is the thing we have all forgotten. Demand and supply. The basics of economics.

You'd be safer telling all you colleagues to fuk off into other jobs. Then you will be in demand due to a skills shortage.

ching..ching...

vamos! · 24-10-2012 08:58PM

The outlaw wrote: »

Also Trainee Accountants would be on that type of salary as well unless you get a job at a multinational maybe 25/26. So a teacher earns at least 28% more than that. Do teachers work 30% more than Accounting/Science Grads? - of course they don't

Teachers paid 6k to teach for free during their dip. They are not trainees. They are highly qualified individuals with quite a bit of responsibility and deserve to be paid as such. Also, very few secondary teachers start on full hours. Most work less than half hours, spread over 5 days and come out with about 16k or so.

My name is URL · 24-10-2012 09:00PM

Most of them seem to be against the idea that teachers already employed won't be subjected to the reduction in salary. Only those entering the profession will be. They want 'equal pay for equal work', which seems fair enough to me. Salaries shouldn't just be based on whether or not you 'got in' before the cutbacks.

Having said that, there was a girl on the radio earlier that was moaning about how €32,000 per year was pittance and hardly worth bothering for. I would have punched her in the gee if she was sitting next to me at the time.

Benicetomonty · 24-10-2012 09:00PM

PC CDROM wrote: »

Here is the thing we have all forgotten. Demand and supply. The basics of economics.

You'd be safer telling all you colleagues to fuk off into other jobs. Then you will be in demand due to a skills shortage.

ching..ching...

Demand for teachers has never been higher - our population is rising in case you haven't noticed. Basic demographics.

krudler · 24-10-2012 09:02PM

32 grand a year before tax? isnt all that much tbh ,I used to be of the "ah shure they get all summer off" brigade until I knew a teacher and she works a lot, a LOT of hours she doesnt get paid for. How many people here would take work home from their office or job and sit there most of the evening and do it for no extra money? I sure as sh1te wouldnt.

Not to mention all the crap they put up with from kids, parents, interfering government bodies, these days if a kid is being bold and not doing their work its not the kids or parents fault, its the teachers,so they get screwed in every facet of their job.

a fat guy · 24-10-2012 09:02PM

You people don't seem to understand that everyone takes what they have for granted, and I'd bet a tenner that you all took your previous jobs for granted too before the recession kicked in. I'm not judging anyone, I'm just stating what I think is true, by the way.

If you were in their place, you would behave the same way.

After all, who wouldn't protest against cuts? We ARE in a recession after all! Everyone wants/needs more money!

vamos! · 24-10-2012 09:04PM

Boombastic wrote: »

€32,000 for 36 weeks work. €888.888/week, Isn't that close to what the sergeant in the Gardai was earning??

I get 100 more than that a fortnight, with allowances (old system) and an MA. I worked part-time (not by choice!) last year and earned less than I did as a student working for the summer in Dunnes. I wasn't working 35 hour weeks but had a hell of a lot of responsibility and 6 years University behind me, including an expensive Dip. Divide and conquer is working exceptionally well. The only major flaw, is the total loss of respect for teachers, Gardai and nurses, to some degree. We will suffer for this in the future when we have a generation of young adults with no values or boundaries. They might just be literate though, after RQs fantastic literacy drive

supernova84 · 24-10-2012 09:06PM

Newly qualified teachers should only be on 25 large starting off and if they don't like it go find another career. Fact.

PC CDROM · 24-10-2012 09:06PM

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Demand for teachers has never been higher - our population is rising in case you haven't noticed. Basic demographics.

Then hang in there and be needed rather than be seen as needy.

Basic economics.

I trained as an aluminium welder because I saw a need for them and realised there were very little in the country, years ago. I creamed the large for about 7 years. I mean mental money. Swimming pool in my house type money.

How was I to know some pr1ck would invent robots to di it?

Did I strike and moan about it? No.

Almaviva · 24-10-2012 09:06PM

jester77 wrote: »

The unions are such hypocrites, they screwed over the new teachers by not accepting to make cuts across the board and now they have the cheek to come out and protest.

Isnt this the nub of the issue? I am sure the govt would happily pay new teachers a higher salary. And pay new teachers the same as more experienced ones. But the experience teachers wont wear a pay cut for themselves - "I'm all right Jack, screw the new teachers and leave my salary alone". What happened to union solidarity when its really needed ?

phoenix999 · 24-10-2012 09:09PM

Lot of people presume these new teachers are getting the full salary. They are not. Most are lucky to get half that salary as they are paid pro rata. Full time jobs especially in the secondary sector are very hard to come by these days. Most are working part-time on temporary contracts and you can forget holiday pay. Primary teachers are a different story.

Chips Lovell · 24-10-2012 09:10PM

I suspect the those who complain about teachers salaries would be the same people who'd be up in arms about standards in education if their kids we're being taught by minimum wage drones. You get what you pay for.

Having said that, I thought it was a terrible decision to slash salaries for new entrants. Either cut everyone's pay or nobody's. They've created a two tier system and that's hardly going to do much good for the motivation of those who find themselves on the lower rung.

PC CDROM · 24-10-2012 09:11PM

krudler wrote: »

How many people here would take work home from their office or job and sit there most of the evening and do it for no extra money? I sure as sh1te wouldnt.

Not to mention all the crap they put up with "work"

Quite a lot of people bar, people who do "manual" labour like working in a warehouse etc

Hard to drive a forklift around your house for no reason.

Benicetomonty · 24-10-2012 09:12PM

PC CDROM wrote: »

Then hang in there and be needed rather than be seen as needy.

Basic economics.

I trained as an aluminium welder because I saw a need for them and realised there were very little in the country, years ago. I creamed the large for about 7 years. I mean mental money. Swimming pool in my house type money.

How was I to know some pr1ck would invent robots to di it?

Did I strike and moan about it? No.

Teachers are needed. Do you really believe raising the student teacher ratio in order to make a couple hundred teachers redundant is not having an effect on the quality of students' education?

I sympathise with you because you're in a job where new technology put (and will continue to put) you in a precarious position but you gambled on your career when you decided what to study (as we all do) and it simply didn't work out. Education is a right. Aluminium isn't.

vamos! · 24-10-2012 09:14PM

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Teachers are needed. Do you really believe raising the student teacher ratio in order to make a couple hundred teachers redundant is not having an effect on the quality of students' education?

I sympathise with you because you're in a job where new technology put (and will continue to put) you in a precarious position but you gambled on your career when you decided what to study (as we all do) and it simply didn't work out. Education is a right. Aluminium isn't.

Even as a teacher on my amazing salary, I can't actually afford to buy and the only swimming-pool style feature of my life is my leaking car roof.

Rasheed · 24-10-2012 09:17PM

krudler wrote: »

32 grand a year before tax? isnt all that much tbh ,I used to be of the "ah shure they get all summer off" brigade until I knew a teacher and she works a lot, a LOT of hours she doesnt get paid for. How many people here would take work home from their office or job and sit there most of the evening and do it for no extra money? I sure as sh1te wouldnt.

Not to mention all the crap they put up with from kids, parents, interfering government bodies, these days if a kid is being bold and not doing their work its not the kids or parents fault, its the teachers,so they get screwed in every facet of their job.

Nobody is doubting how hard teachers work, or how much they do post school hours. Fact is, everybody needs to take some pain because of the recession.

I'm a nurse, I qualified in 2009. When I began my training, you could walk into a a permanent HSE job when qualified, not so in 2009.

Our starting salary, IF you got permanent in HSE was circa €30,000.

That was staying on extra hours due to understaffing, bringing documentation home due to time poverty in the hospital. On top of abusive patients, families, doctors etc.

Teachers work hard. So do most public sector newly qualified workers.

Fact is, the country is broke. We are all working piss hard for less money, sad but true.

We could all march until we are blue in the face, it won't manufacture money.

mikemac1 · 24-10-2012 09:17PM

What happened solidarity and unions fighting hardest for the weakest members

Duiske · 24-10-2012 09:19PM

poeticseraphim wrote: »

The best way to get the govt to listen as a nation is to join them...seriously..you back the unions you have some power as people

Hang on. It was the unions who negotiated the €32k starting pay for new teachers, under the Croke Park deal. Fcuk the unions and their protesting against pay scales that they themselves agreed to.

Icepick · 24-10-2012 09:20PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I suspect the those who complain about teachers salaries would be the same people who'd be up in arms about standards in education if their kids we're being taught by minimum wage drones. You get what you pay for.

nonsense
Best paid teachers and one of the worst results.

unkel · 24-10-2012 09:22PM

32k is a very decent starting salary for a teacher. I wouldn't be surprised if that is still well over the EU average

In the private sector when someone is on 50k and the company can now only afford to pay them 32k, that's what they'll get (or get made redundant if they don't voluntarily accept). That has happened to hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland. Going down 30-40% is hard but those people are coping

We can not afford to pay teachers 50k plus anymore. Why can't they all go back to 32k? Croke park agreement is invalid as our economic circumstances have significantly changed since then (clause 1.28 - inability to pay - borrowing from Peter does not make you able to pay Paul)

Is there no politican / party out there with the balls to push this through? Sure they'll lose the vote of many a pulic servant, but I'd say they would win the next election

PC CDROM · 24-10-2012 09:23PM

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Teachers are needed. Do you really believe raising the student teacher ratio in order to make a couple hundred teachers redundant is not having an effect on the quality of students' education?

I sympathise with you because you're in a job where new technology put (and will continue to put) you in a precarious position but you gambled on your career when you decided what to study (as we all do) and it simply didn't work out. Education is a right. Aluminium isn't.

You see... you are perceiving it wrong.

It's not about education or aluminium. It is about you and what you want. Let society decide what's valuable. Not a load of d1kheads around a table at a dinner party (I'm throwing that out there)

You look after yourself.

Thinking that Education is right is a bad mindset. Good for society but not a great way to make a living.

gosplan · 24-10-2012 09:24PM

This is a load of bullsh1t in that everyone seems to be missing the point.

Pain is fine, higher tax is fine (if it gets us out of this mess) ... but it must be equal. You can't have two people working side by side doing the same job for very different pay.

The Unions are sh1tting it now because they screwed over the NQTs and now they realise that no-one really wants to sign up to a Union that sold them out before they even got the job.

Shameful display from them.

Zulu · 24-10-2012 09:25PM

Yeah, they should all get automatic, non proformance related pay rises this year aswell...

phoenix999 · 24-10-2012 09:25PM

unkel wrote: »

32k is a very decent starting salary for a teacher. I wouldn't be surprised if that is still well over the EU average

In the private sector when someone is on 50k and the company can now only afford to pay them 32k, that's what they'll get (or get made redundant if they don't voluntarily accept). That has happened to hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland. Going down 30-40% is hard but those people are coping

We can not afford to pay teachers 50k plus anymore. Why can't they all go back to 32k? Croke park agreement is invalid as our economic circumstances have significantly changed since then (clause 1.28 - inability to pay)

Is there no politican / party out there with the balls to push this through? Sure they'll lose the vote of many a pulic servant, but I'd say they would win the next election

Why can't all civil servants go back to 32000k at that rate. I've met a lot of pen pushers working in government departments who do feck all work and get paid ridiculous amounts.

unkel · 24-10-2012 09:27PM

gosplan wrote: »

This is a load of bullsh1t in that everyone seems to be missing the point.

Pain is fine, higher tax is fine (if it gets us out of this mess) ... but it must be equal. You can't have two people working side by side doing the same job for very different pay.

The Unions are sh1tting it now because they screwed over the NQTs and now they realise that no-one really wants to sign up to a Union that sold them out before they even got the job.

Shameful display from them.

Exactly. Well at least if this two tier system prevails, the silver lining is that there will no longer be any teachers in any union in a decade or two from now

gosplan · 24-10-2012 09:27PM

Icepick wrote: »

nonsense
Best paid teachers and one of the worst results.

Do go on.

Newly Qualified Teachers Protest

Comments