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Passport renewal while Bench warrant outstanding.

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  • 07-01-2013 9:35pm
    #1
    Evocnala
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭


    Hi all,
    I am hoping somebody will be able to help me on this one. I have a bench warrant for driving offences and a public order offence. My passport is soon due for renewal and I am living in a foreign country. My question being, will I be able to apply for a renewal or what will the situation be? Will it automatically stop me because of the warrant?

    Is it possible that I may get one easier at an embassy in a foreign country?

    Need help and any of your opinions will be much appreciated.

    Thanking you,
    Evan.
    Tagged:


«13

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    #2
    Corkbah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭Corkbah


    the bench warrant will be in the system and it'll be flagged when you renew your passport .... why did you skip the country knowing you had traffic offences and public order offences pending ??

    This will let the Gardai know which country you are in...if they wish to execute the bench warrant (they can apply for an extradition order to arrest and deport you back home to face the charges...if you are in a country with an extradition agreement)


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    #3
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    If the OP is outside the state then he should renew his passport at an embassy.

    A bench warrant has no bearing on this.


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    #4
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Grass between the tracks wrote: »
    If the OP is outside the state then he should renew his passport at an embassy.

    A bench warrant has no bearing on this.

    If they cop he has a bench warrant could he not be arrested?


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    #5
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    If he was in the state yes.

    The OP states that he is abroad.


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    #6
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Grass between the tracks wrote: »
    If he was in the state yes.

    The OP states that he is abroad.

    And an embassy is not considered to be within the home country's jurisdiction?


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    #7
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    MagicSean wrote: »
    And an embassy is not considered to be within the home country's jurisdiction?
    Only if he was silly enough to apply in person.

    Also do embassies have Gardaí on duty within them? Do consular officers have authority to arrest for a bench warrant?


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    #8
    Evocnala
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Evocnala


    Thanks for the replies guys. In reply to "Corkbah": I left because I have previous road traffic and public order and feared a term of imprisonment.

    @GrassBetweenTheTracks: What is an OP and can you apply for it at an embassy without going in person or how does that work?
    I have been in this country for over a year now and certain gardai of my local station know this and I don't think an extradition would be requested due to the lack of seriousness involved with the said charges but as you said, if I were to apply in person then it more than likely would.


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    #9
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    Apply by post.


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    #10
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    MagicSean wrote: »
    And an embassy is not considered to be within the home country's jurisdiction?



    Also they might refuse to renew, which might be much cheaper than extradition.


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    #11
    Corkbah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭Corkbah


    Evocnala wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies guys. In reply to "Corkbah": I left because I have previous road traffic and public order and feared a term of imprisonment.

    @GrassBetweenTheTracks: What is an OP and can you apply for it at an embassy without going in person or how does that work?
    I have been in this country for over a year now and certain gardai of my local station know this and I don't think an extradition would be requested due to the lack of seriousness involved with the said charges but as you said, if I were to apply in person then it more than likely would.

    was it worth leaving your family and life here ? ...the fear of imprisonment.... why commit the offences if you know the possibility of going to jail was present.


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    #12
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    Is that any of your business?


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    #13
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    MagicSean wrote: »

    And an embassy is not considered to be within the home country's jurisdiction?

    It's not. It's in the other country. It is only by convention that embassys abroad are not entered by police forces.


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    #14
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Grass between the tracks wrote: »
    Only if he was silly enough to apply in person.

    Also do embassies have Gardaí on duty within them? Do consular officers have authority to arrest for a bench warrant?

    I believe there are gardaí assigned to embassy duty. In what capacity I do not know.
    Grass between the tracks wrote: »
    Apply by post.

    You need to get the photos witnessed don't you?
    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Also they might refuse to renew, which might be much cheaper than extradition.

    Seems like the best course of action if they know about the warrant.
    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    It's not. It's in the other country. It is only by convention that embassys abroad are not entered by police forces.

    Good to know.


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    #15
    Evocnala
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Evocnala


    Well what's done is done CORKBAH, it's my options regarding my passport renewal I am worried about but thanks for your concern.

    Grassbetweenthetracks: Do you know that is a safe option or are you speculating that it'd be good to go? Just worried about it all messing with my career in the country I am in.


    Thanks again


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    #16
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    Are you an Irish citizen? That I am not clear on.


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    #17
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    Evocnala wrote: »
    Well what's done is done CORKBAH, it's my options regarding my passport renewal I am worried about but thanks for your concern.

    Grassbetweenthetracks: Do you know that is a safe option or are you speculating that it'd be good to go? Just worried about it all messing with my career in the country I am in.


    Thanks again
    Your chances of being arrested in a foreign country - even in an embassy - are pretty slim I'd imagine (how can they arrest you and then retain you without legal authority while they transport you through and out of the foreign country in which you are in?), but it's highly likely that they will revoke your current passport, whether you apply in person or by post, and refuse to issue you with another one ever again until such time the warrant is executed. That warrant is with you until the day you die, unless you face up to it.

    Is there any possibility you could return home, face the consequences and be done with it then?


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    #18
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,438 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Do some posters here seriously think that every Irish embassy around the world has an up to date list of outstanding bench warrants?

    So let's say they do, the OP walks in to renew his passport and they arrest him on the basis that he is standing on Irish 'soil'. What happens next? Is there a cell in the embassy? Don't they still need to get him from the embassy to the nearest airport to fly him home to answer the warrants in which case their jurisdiction (to arrest him on an Irish warrant) lapses because they are back on the host country 'soil'. And doesn't that mean that the instant they step over the embassy boundary they have to release him?

    The suggestion is so full of holes, it's laughable.


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    #19
    Dubwat
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Dubwat


    If he applies by post, he'll be giving the Irish Govt/system his new address. If 'they' really wanted him (unlikely), they could give his new address to the local police and ask them to arrest him & extradite etc?

    Assuming he's in Europe, does he need an up-to-date passport to travel around? Or would a (new country) driving licence/ID suffice to travel by ferry/train. I think most airlines now ask for a passport?

    (P.S. I'm not a lawyer)


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    #20
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    Under what legal authority could they revoke a passport?


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    #21
    Evocnala
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Evocnala


    Yeah i'm an Irish citizen. It is Australia I am in now and would love to know for sure what to do :(


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    #22
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Grass between the tracks wrote: »
    Under what legal authority could they revoke a passport?



    It's written on the passport that it is the property of the state and must be surrender on demand.


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    #23
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    You will not be arrested if you present yourself at an Irish embassy abroad. Contrary to popular belief they are not considered Irish territory.

    You may, however, be refused a renewal of your passport. In general there's a right to travel abroad, and a concomitant expectation that the state will issue you a passport so as not to frustrate that right, but this is not an absolute obligation on the state, and their are circumstances in which the state can decline to issue a passport. There's a case from 1979 (State (M) v A-G 1979 IR 73) which suggests that your being under an obligation to attend court in Ireland to be tried for an offence may be sufficient reason not to issue you with a passport.

    On a practical level, I don't know whether the Dept of Foreign Affairs systems are good enough to connect the dots between your passport application and your unsatisfied bench warrant but, if they are, my guess is that you will not be able to get your passport renewed.


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    #24
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    Is there a requirement to be of good character to obtain a passport?


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    #25
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Grass between the tracks wrote: »
    Is there a requirement to be of good character to obtain a passport?
    No. The default position is that a citizen is entitled to a passport unless there is some definite reason for not issuing one. There is no exhaustive list of the reasons which justify refusing a passport, but having skipped the country while on a bench warrant is certainly one.


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    #26
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    You'll have another charge now as well of failing to appear/estreatment of bail !!

    What type of Visa are you in Australia on?
    Presumably this will expire sooner or later which could cause even more problems for you in the longer term.
    I would imagine that all passports re-issued by Embassies are first matched against the Irish database, whether or not anybody has bothered to flag your warrants against this is anybodies guess.

    For what it's worth - (Not an attack on you personally BTW) - I think that you were foolish to run away from it. When your time over there is up you'd be as well to come home and face the music before you go off anywhere else. Do it on your terms though. Contact the local Gardaí before you come back and arrange to meet them by appointment rather than have them looking for you again. This will 100% go in your favour in court.


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    #27
    qwertypop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭qwertypop


    How did you get into oz with outstanding cases due. My brother went there last year and it was a nightmare trying to get the visa cause he had a nasty motoring offence. Are you there illegaly.

    My honest answer to you is just to hand yourself in. It's no life having to run away and always watching your back. Ya it might be the case that they'll never execute the warrant while your in oz but if the oz'ies ever find out then your in deep waters


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    #28
    Grass between the tracks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 122 ✭✭Grass between the tracks


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    No. The default position is that a citizen is entitled to a passport unless there is some definite reason for not issuing one. There is no exhaustive list of the reasons which justify refusing a passport, but having skipped the country while on a bench warrant is certainly one.
    Surely the embassy would issue a document to allow the OP travel to Ireland to hand himself in?


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    #29
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    You'll have another charge now as well of failing to appear/estreatment of bail !!
    Allowing your passport to expire without renewal is not an offence. Nor is applying for renewal and being refused.
    twowheelsonly wrote: »
    What type of Visa are you in Australia on?
    Presumably this will expire sooner or later which could cause even more problems for you in the longer term.
    Regardless of what type of Australian visa it is, it does not lapse merely because the holder's passport has expired. So, if the OP does not renew his passport, he will not become liable to deportation from Australia. But he will, of course, be unable either to leave Australia or to enter any other country or to return to Australia without a passport.

    If he's on a time-limited visa, when it does expire he will be unable to get a replacement visa without having a valid passport, and at that stage he will become liable to deportation.

    If he's deported to Ireland in those circumstances the Irish authorities will, of course, be notified in advance, so when he arrives they'll likely be waiting for him to enforce the warrant.

    So this is not a situation which is going to improve with time. The OP can try to live quietly in Australia, never leaving the country and hoping never to attract attention to his eventually undocumented status. But if he doesn't want to do that, or fears that he may not be able to carry it off successfully, then his best option is to return to Ireland voluntarily, contacting the guards beforehand to come to the best terms he can with regard to facing up to the outstanding charges.


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    #30
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Grass between the tracks wrote: »
    Surely the embassy would issue a document to allow the OP travel to Ireland to hand himself in?
    Of course, yes, if that's what he agrees to do. But the document would not necessarily be a passport, but rather some kind of temporary single-use document to get him back to Ireland. Or it might be a very limited passport, good for only a short time, and specifically endorsed that it was not to be used to enter any country other than Ireland. I don't see them issuing him with the usual five-year unrestricted passport.


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    #31
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,300 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    qwertypop wrote: »
    How did you get into oz with outstanding cases due. My brother went there last year and it was a nightmare trying to get the visa cause he had a nasty motoring offence. Are you there illegaly.
    Firstly, if he was there illegally, he wouldn't really need the passport. Secondly, your bro most likely has a motoring conviction, as opposed to a motoring offence. From my understanding, the OP (Original Poster) left the country before he got the conviction, and thus that is probably why he was able to get into Oz.

    I'm guessing the OP got caught drink driving or something like that, feared he wouldn't have gotten a visa with such a conviction, and skipped the country before any convictions could be brought against him.
    MagicSean wrote: »
    You need to get the photos witnessed don't you?
    Yes, but an Australian Police Officer should be fine for that.


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