Sleeping rough just yards from the Dail.

Judgement Day · 01-03-2013 09:59PM #1

I'm sure we're almost all immune at this stage to tales of people sleeping rough but a visit to Dublin today really rammed the message home to me. My photos show somebody sleeping rough in a doorway directly opposite Buswell's Hotel in Molesworth Street - just yards away from the Dail/National Museum and National Library. This is wrong, wrong, wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to start!

1. On a humanitarian level nobody should be allowed to sleep rough anywhere in the Republic. It should be illegal to sleep rough and it should be equally illegal for the State to allow it to continue.

2. What message does it send out to tourists/school children etc., many of whom were in the immediate vicinity of this unfortunate person's home, about the treatment of people in Irish society?

3. What does it say about our ****ing useless politicians making their way past this person on their way from the Dail Bar to Buswell's Bar.

It makes me mad!! :mad:

frag420 · 01-03-2013 10:02PM

Did you take the pictures before or after you offered to help the homeless person?

Judgement Day · 01-03-2013 10:06PM

frag420 wrote: »

Did you take the pictures before or after you offered to help the homeless person?

That's very trite. If I gave money to every homeless person I'd be joining them!

The State, the one that we all pay our taxes to, has a duty to look after all its citizens.

spank_inferno · 01-03-2013 10:33PM

To paraphrase religion: "The state will help those who help themselves"

The social welfare system is pretty plentiful in Ireland.
There is a lot of systems & supports available.

At the end of the day there are some who are beyond assistance, or simply do not want it.

frag420 · 01-03-2013 10:45PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

That's very trite. If I gave money to every homeless person I'd be joining them!

The State, the one that we all pay our taxes to, has a duty to look after all its citizens.

Maybe give a couple of euro to the ones you stop to take pictures of!!

p1akuw47h5r3it · 01-03-2013 10:54PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

[IMG]3. What does it say about our ****ing useless politicians making their way past this person on their way from the Dail Bar to Buswell's Bar. It makes me mad!! :mad:[/img]

You can't just blame politicians for this. You have no idea why this person is homeless.

I hate homelessness aswell but instead of just blaming politicians why not donate money to homeless charities or volunteer in a soup kitchen etc.

Politicians get blamed for absolutely everything in this country, some of it deserved of course.

My name is URL · 01-03-2013 10:56PM

He's a lot better off and safer there than many people around the country will be tonight... roof or no roof.

mattjack · 01-03-2013 11:02PM

spank_inferno wrote: »

To paraphrase religion: "The state will help those who help themselves"

The social welfare system is pretty plentiful in Ireland.
There is a lot of systems & supports available.

At the end of the day there are some who are beyond assistance, or simply do not want it.

There are some supports and systems in Ireland .
For some all that's available are hostels or possibly like that person a sleeping bag off an outreach team.
There's very few beyond assistance, they may need more support than is available at the moment.

GRMA · 02-03-2013 04:26PM

I've done soup runs in Dublin for a number of years, there are lots of homeless in and around Kildare street. That particular man seems to have some mental problems, he is harmless though.

For the poster who mentioned welfare, when you don't have a home/address it's nigh on impossible to get. Shelters are dangerous for many homeless people, full of drugs, drink and violence. Some shelters only have one or two workers who are supposed to "supervise" and keep order. An impossible task which I don't blame them for neglecting to do, or ignoring some incidents. It's very dangerous.

Many homeless live on the street because it is much safer there for them.

These are very vulnerable people who are often not the smartest and dont understand welfare etc. Some are drug addicts (by no means all) and others have mental issues and simply can't look after themselves. Others are people who are simply down on their luck, there are a few homeless people who are educated but have just fallen on hard times.

No one choses to be homeless. Its very hard to get out of.

Son Of A Vidic · 02-03-2013 09:17PM

frag420 wrote: »

Did you take the pictures before or after you offered to help the homeless person?

OP said they were on a visit to Dublin, but I'd say the regulars who 'work' across the road, would be in a much better postion to offer assistance.

Sierra Oscar · 02-03-2013 09:31PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

OP said they were on a visit to Dublin, but I'd say the regulars who 'work' across the road, would be in a much better postion to offer assistance.

I am sure people have tried, but the fact that this particular individual is known for consistently hurling abuse and threatening those who walk by LH it makes it difficult for anyone to approach him I would imagine.

Francie Barrett · 02-03-2013 09:36PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

What does it say about our ****ing useless politicians making their way past this person on their way from the Dail Bar to Buswell's Bar.

Which bar are you off to tonight? :pac:

Judgement Day · 02-03-2013 09:39PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Which bar are you off to tonight? :pac:

And your point is?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · 02-03-2013 09:46PM

Was anybody else kinda hoping this thread was about Leo Varadkar??

Stark · 02-03-2013 09:48PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm sure we're almost all immune at this stage to tales of people sleeping rough but a visit to Dublin today really rammed the message home to me. My photos show somebody sleeping rough in a doorway directly opposite Buswell's Hotel in Molesworth Street - just yards away from the Dail/National Museum and National Library. This is wrong, wrong, wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to start!

The cheek of him!

Meauldsegosha · 02-03-2013 09:49PM

That's Reggie and he's been there for years. The staff in Leinster House keep an eye on him and give him food, tea/coffee and soup. The Garda based in LH also check on him regularly and have tried to get him help but he won't accept it.

Rafa1977 · 02-03-2013 09:53PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm sure we're almost all immune at this stage to tales of people sleeping rough but a visit to Dublin today really rammed the message home to me. My photos show somebody sleeping rough in a doorway directly opposite Buswell's Hotel in Molesworth Street - just yards away from the Dail/National Museum and National Library. This is wrong, wrong, wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to start!

1. On a humanitarian level nobody should be allowed to sleep rough anywhere in the Republic. It should be illegal to sleep rough and it should be equally illegal for the State to allow it to continue.

2. What message does it send out to tourists/school children etc., many of whom were in the immediate vicinity of this unfortunate person's home, about the treatment of people in Irish society?

3. What does it say about our ****ing useless politicians making their way past this person on their way from the Dail Bar to Buswell's Bar.

It makes me mad!! :mad:

People have been sleeping rough in that area for years, don't know why you are taking issue with this government as was happening when FF were there. In fact there was a guy that sleeps on Kildare Street right beside Kildare House for years, haven't seen him in a few months now.

Judgement Day · 02-03-2013 10:17PM

Rafa1977 wrote: »

People have been sleeping rough in that area for years, don't know why you are taking issue with this government as was happening when FF were there. In fact there was a guy that sleeps on Kildare Street right beside Kildare House for years, haven't seen him in a few months now.

Where did I say that I was taking issue with this government - they are all ****ing useless. The inability to deal with the problem of people sleeping rough is just symptomatic of the way everything is dealt with in this country whether its drugs, crime, subversion, unemployment.........Perhaps they should set-up an enquiry to look into the problem or get McKinsey & Co. to do a report on it.

Another poster stated that the individual had been sleeping there for years - he wasn't the last time that I was through Molesworth Street but be that as it may, it is clearly an undesirable situation.

P_1 · 02-03-2013 10:28PM

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

That's Reggie and he's been there for years. The staff in Leinster House keep an eye on him and give him food, tea/coffee and soup. The Garda based in LH also check on him regularly and have tried to get him help but he won't accept it.

Fair enough, if you offer somebody help and they don't accept it then there really isn't much more that anybody (TD's included) can really do.

RandolphEsq · 03-03-2013 04:59AM

P_1 wrote: »

Fair enough, if you offer somebody help and they don't accept it then there really isn't much more that anybody (TD's included) can really do.

At least now he has people 'checking on him'. Give him a home and he will be all alone devoid of human contact. There isn't much more that anyone should be doing other than the occasional crumb tossed his way so long as he persists on those steps. But if he is mentally not there then c'est la vie.

Qualitymark · 03-03-2013 06:31AM

People no longer remember that this is a modern problem. It started shortly after Thatcher's 'cardboard cities' in Britain.
With the house littered with ghost estates, there is absolutely no reason anyone needs to be sleeping on the street, other than the fact that our society doesn't care enough to stop this - like the man sleeping in a doorway in Bray who died of the cold last month, the week he was due to finally move into a flat he and his social workers had been fighting for for months.

murphaph · 03-03-2013 09:17AM

Judgement Day wrote: »

The State, the one that we all pay our taxes to, has a duty to look after all its citizens.

I don't know the individual circumstances of the person you photographed (and nor do you as you didn't speak to them) but some people refuse or are beyond help.

If a person refuses to come off drugs or stop drinking a litre of cheap vodka a day, there's only so much the state (or any individual) can do.

I do believe the state fails miserably at drug rehabilitation and prevention. I think better facilities in this regard would not only be better for the individuals concerned but for society as a whole as drugs account for a very large proportion of overall crime (the mother was mugged years ago around Christchurch by a junkie, not an uncommon event)

However, to suggest that nobody should ever sleep rough is too far. People sleep rough in every country in the world I should imagine. Some people truly do not want to have anything to do with society or the institutions of state. They will refuse to cooperate with any such institutions and at some point, you have to cut them loose. In Germany it goes further...whilst the state will guarantee a roof over the head of anyone who cooperates (ie, goes for job interviews, or attends retraining etc. or does compulsory community work if nobody will give them a real job) they will ultimately remove ALL BENEFITS from people who refuse to engage the system, this doesn't happen in Ireland. We in Ireland will continue giving dole to people who refuse to give anything back. This needs to change too.

Qualitymark · 03-03-2013 09:31AM

Aaaaannnnd the thread predictably swings to the loony right.

Of course there are people who want to sleep out. There were in the 1960s too. But 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of rough sleepers don't want to sleep out. They want a safe, secure, warm place to sleep.

99.999999999999999999999999999999% of hopeless drunks on the street are there for two reasons:

1) They're hopeless drunks because of the utter failure of the State to help them when they were children in need of care and love.

2) They cannot get housing.

Judgement Day · 03-03-2013 09:35AM

murphaph There's a lot of truth in what you say but I'm coming at this from all sorts of different angles and, excluding the unfortunate individual from the equation, it is not in the best interests of Ireland Inc. to have people lying/sleeping about the streets in various doorways. The same day that I photographed the man in Molesworth Street I was accosted by numerous people begging in a short walk from South Great Georges Street to Kildare Street. It's a serious problem that, in everybody's interest, needs urgent attention.

johnam · 03-03-2013 09:56AM

TV3 ( I think..) did a programme on Homelessness a few years back, with one of their presenters sleeping rough over a few days, possible longer. Anyway..IIRC he slept rough on that very spot one of the nights as it was the safest place to sleep. Hostels are dangerous, and at least there outside the Dail there is a 24 hour Garda presence.

murphaph · 03-03-2013 10:21AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Aaaaannnnd the thread predictably swings to the loony right.

Of course there are people who want to sleep out. There were in the 1960s too. But 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of rough sleepers don't want to sleep out. They want a safe, secure, warm place to sleep.

99.999999999999999999999999999999% of hopeless drunks on the street are there for two reasons:

1) They're hopeless drunks because of the utter failure of the State to help them when they were children in need of care and love.

2) They cannot get housing.

I presume you mean me with you loony right remark but I'll let it slide...pointless comment however.

I don't think you really know what you are talking about. My cousin died 6 months ago of an alcohol related illness. He was born into a happy Dublin family and got all the love and care a boy could need. His siblings are proof of that. He took to the bottle for reasons nobody can really say and refused help for most of his life, dying at 42 in a bedsit in France. He must be the
0.00000000000000000000000000001% though, according to your made up statistics above.

You can't force help on people and you can't take a person and set them up in a cosy little flat and think "job done". The alcoholic will remain an alcoholic in his little flat (which will quickly become squalid in many cases) and will still need money to fund his alcoholism (or drug addiction or whatever).

There is no magic wand that can be waved to magic away all these unfortunates into cosy flats and little jobs. It is not a problem restricted to Dublin or Ireland. I live not far from a homeless shelter here in Berlin. The lads have a warm place to bed down but continue to drink themselves into oblivion outside the nearby Lidl starting at 8:00AM every single day when I'm on my way to work and still being there at 18:00 when I come home. Some folks are beyond help or don't see the problem in the first place.

There has to be a bit of give and take. People have to want to improve their lot and make an effort to do so. It is not society's job to get people off drugs etc. it is society's job to provide the facilities to do so for those that want to.

elfy4eva · 03-03-2013 10:39AM

You'll see homelessness everywhere unfortunately, it's not confined to Dublin or Ireland. I would be of the opinion that it's very hard to get to the stage of sleeping rough given all the welfare and charity services that are available.

Much as I'd love to play the blame game here, I feel there are many more factors that lead to homelessness on the streets. Also his proximity to the dail is meaningless as the dail is less than 5 minutes walk from grafton street which is a rough sleeping hotspot.

Qualitymark · 03-03-2013 02:30PM

I'm very sorry to hear about your cousin, murphaph.

What I'm saying is that cutting the dole and forcing people to do useful work like sweeping the streets is not going to solve the problem of homelessness. Most homeless people would accept a home. And most of those who are ridden by alcohol or drugs would be able to live in their own home with help.

P_1 · 03-03-2013 02:32PM

The thing is though that one person's norm is another persons idea of something gone horribly wrong.

For whatever reason some people prefer to sleep rough than to use shelters etc.

As far as I know they're not breaking any laws by sleeping rough so nothing says that they have to use the homeless shelters etc.

Solair · 03-03-2013 02:42PM

spank_inferno wrote: »

To paraphrase religion: "The state will help those who help themselves"

The social welfare system is pretty plentiful in Ireland.
There is a lot of systems & supports available.

At the end of the day there are some who are beyond assistance, or simply do not want it.

There are also a % of people who may be unable to access the system.

The Irish social welfare system tends to be very generous if you're capable of negotiating the hurdles you have to go through to get onto it and its also slow and bureaucratic which means a claim can take months to process (unless you kick up a stink).

Some people who end up homeless are depressed and/or may be just not quite able to deal with those systems etc etc

In many cases you're put in a position where you've basically got to beg for assistance from a community welfare officer while a claim is being processed and some people can't do that / will just have no idea what to do and end up sitting on the street.

It's very easy to assume supports exist. They're often not nearly as accessible as you might think!

We need a one stop shop combination of social welfare combined with social workers to help the homeless. They need more than charity. they need practical help to get their lives back on track.

The reality of it is that a % of people can't get it together and lack the family support / friends / networks to help.

Then you've also got addicts who are also not getting sufficient help. I seriously think we need to look at compulsory treatment for drug addicts. It's ridiculous to just allow someone to destroy themselves and also potentially become a risk to society in terms of crime etc

We tend to wring our hands and hope the problem will go away or offer meaningless charity interventions.

Homelessness needs SERIOUS political, public policy and other interventions and structural change !

narddog · 03-03-2013 02:44PM

spank_inferno wrote: »

To paraphrase religion: "The state will help those who help themselves"

The social welfare system is pretty plentiful in Ireland.
There is a lot of systems & supports available.

At the end of the day there are some who are beyond assistance, or simply do not want it.

Very true.
Instead of expecting the state to look after us, how about we look after ourselves? How many homeless people are in their predicament due to the following reasons?

- Alcoholism
- Refusing offered accommodation
- Unwillingness to modify behaviour to live in sheltered housing

Before I get jumped on by others, I know that ther are tragic cases, who through the vagaries of life find themselves on the streets, but please don't tell me every single homeless person has a right to blame the powers that be for the situation they're in.

03-03-2013 02:48PM

We should get him elected to the dail.

narddog · 03-03-2013 02:51PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

People no longer remember that this is a modern problem. .

Nonsense. As much as I dislike Thatcher, blaming her for homelessness is ridiculous. The homeless, like the poor, have always been with us. Arthur Guinness has more culpability than Maggie.

Qualitymark · 03-03-2013 03:03PM

narddog wrote: »

Nonsense. As much as I dislike Thatcher, blaming her for homelessness is ridiculous. The homeless, like the poor, have always been with us. Arthur Guinness has more culpability than Maggie.

Well, I was an adult in the 1960s and 1970s; there weren't great flocks of people sleeping in doorways in Dublin. It's possible that this is because they were incarcerated in asylums, and that the epidemic of street sleeping started when the asylums were opened and the tall walls were taken down, but I don't think so - it happened here a few years after it happened in England.

murphaph · 03-03-2013 03:17PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'm very sorry to hear about your cousin, murphaph. .

Thanks, I'm not looking for sympathy or anything. I wasn't close to him personally as he lived in France for many years but his story was relevant: he didn't want help or didn't try hard enough. It was offered on many occasions by many parties.

Qualitymark wrote: »

What I'm saying is that cutting the dole and forcing people to do useful work like sweeping the streets is not going to solve the problem of homelessness. Most homeless people would accept a home. And most of those who are ridden by alcohol or drugs would be able to live in their own home with help.

I don't think they can. I have other family experience of drug addiction that I don't really want to go into in detail but here's the truth: drug addicts will sell their own mother for the next fix. They will sell every stick of salable furniture in their flat and they will often allow their flat to be used by others to inject etc. Do you want that guy living next to you and your family?

They have to get clean before they can be set up in a flat or whatever (and I'd suggest that is going too far unless they are at least doing work in the community to pay for their roof). The facilities for getting drug addicts clean are a shocking disgrace in Ireland with long waiting lists and weird rules (many places are church run) and ultimately society pays the price through increased crime. It's still seen as an urban problem (incorrectly so) by many politicians and there's no popular support for drug treatment facilities.

The state needs to provide these facilities to help people off drugs. The state should engage with people who want to improve themselves. The state cannot however force help onto an unwilling individual. These people can only be cut loose.

murphaph · 03-03-2013 03:28PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Well, I was an adult in the 1960s and 1970s; there weren't great flocks of people sleeping in doorways in Dublin. It's possible that this is because they were incarcerated in asylums, and that the epidemic of street sleeping started when the asylums were opened and the tall walls were taken down, but I don't think so - it happened here a few years after it happened in England.

It's not new at all though and I dare say we have far fewer people sleeping rough in 2013 Dublin than we did during the famine, for example.

The very acts which made (in England still make) living rough and begging illegal go back to the Napoleonic Wars. Interestingly in 2007 the High Court in 2007 declared these paragraphs unconstitutional in Ireland.

I'd say the homeless in the 60's had to hide themselves from the Gardai tbh. but I'm sure they were there.

narddog · 03-03-2013 04:33PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

We should get him elected to the dail.

Why not. He already spends more time around the Dail than any TD.

narddog · 03-03-2013 04:45PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Well, I was an adult in the 1960s and 1970s; there weren't great flocks of people sleeping in doorways in Dublin. It's possible that this is because they were incarcerated in asylums, and that the epidemic of street sleeping started when the asylums were opened and the tall walls were taken down, but I don't think so - it happened here a few years after it happened in England.

I grew up in the late 70's, and there was homelesness then, as there is now. Not too sure what you mean by "great flocks of people", but relative to the general population, and certainly when judged against other parts of the world, we do not have an epidemic of homelessness. We have people on the margins of society, who find themselves on the streets. Some through misfortune, some because they prefer to piss away their lives. To those who want help, I would agree we should, as a society, do what we can to help them. To those who choose otherwise, they will have to live with the consequences.

Qualitymark · 03-03-2013 05:29PM

If you look back to the last couple of years of the Press Group you'll find stories "People sleeping on Dublin streets!!!!" It wasn't the norm then.

mattjack · 03-03-2013 05:38PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

If you look back to the last couple of years of the Press Group you'll find stories "People sleeping on Dublin streets!!!!" It wasn't the norm then.

I think theres been homeless counts since the 90's and rough sleeper counts since 2008 or so.

Qualitymark · 03-03-2013 06:23PM

Yes, it was in the 1990s it started, I think.

Of course there are people who don't want to come in - a man around the corner from where I live refused to sleep inside in the deep snow of last year and the whole neighbourhood was demented bringing him around soup and dinners and keeping an eye on him. He seems to have disappeared now; wonder what happened to the poor old guy.

But an awful lot of those who are sleeping out really would like to be housed, and could pull their lives together if they were.

Even with drugs and drink, there's a wide variation between the recreational user and the raddled and hopeless person who'd sell their grandmother's wedding ring to get the next drink/fix. And plenty of those on the street are near enough to the former end that if they can get into a home of their own, they can progress to a better, saner, safer life. I was going to say "and get a job", but of course in the current climate that's not necessarily an option.

RealExpert · 03-03-2013 06:33PM

deccurley wrote: »

Was anybody else kinda hoping this thread was about Leo Varadkar??

I was too.It be a nice sight to see Varadkar or any td sleeping on the steps of Leinster house and the rest of the goons wiping their feet on him on the way in............and out cos that place must be full of sh*t

mattjack · 03-03-2013 06:37PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Yes, it was in the 1990s it started, I think.

Of course there are people who don't want to come in - a man around the corner from where I live refused to sleep inside in the deep snow of last year and the whole neighbourhood was demented bringing him around soup and dinners and keeping an eye on him. He seems to have disappeared now; wonder what happened to the poor old guy.

But an awful lot of those who are sleeping out really would like to be housed, and could pull their lives together if they were.

Even with drugs and drink, there's a wide variation between the recreational user and the raddled and hopeless person who'd sell their grandmother's wedding ring to get the next drink/fix. And plenty of those on the street are near enough to the former end that if they can get into a home of their own, they can progress to a better, saner, safer life. I was going to say "and get a job", but of course in the current climate that's not necessarily an option.

One of things you might want to have a look at , if you're interested , is the criteria for homelessness and then the amount counted as rough sleepers.

Lapin · 03-03-2013 06:50PM

He's actually sleeping slightly closer to the Seanad.

Qualitymark · 03-03-2013 10:19PM

mattjack wrote: »

One of things you might want to have a look at , if you're interested , is the criteria for homelessness and then the amount counted as rough sleepers.

Interesting point - I would like to look at that.

What I'm remembering is purely the fact that you didn't see people sleeping on the streets - at least, certainly not in prosperous parts of the city; it may have existed in some part of Dublin I didn't know.

jank · 03-03-2013 11:51PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Well, I was an adult in the 1960s and 1970s; there weren't great flocks of people sleeping in doorways in Dublin. It's possible that this is because they were incarcerated in asylums, and that the epidemic of street sleeping started when the asylums were opened and the tall walls were taken down, but I don't think so - it happened here a few years after it happened in England.

That’s an interesting point. As our society has become more liberal we don't lock people up any more because they seem a little off or crazy. This practice would have been widespread not only in Ireland but throughout the western world. I suppose they took the attitude that putting them into the Looney bin was the best thing for them and society rather than having them wander about the place talking or shouting at themselves for years on end. This theory has cropped up in the US as well where there has been a marked increase in random crazy people going on a shooting spree. The theory is that before these people would often be locked up in some institution and not wandering about the place where easy access to guns enables them to carry out mass killings. Just a theory.

Regarding individual cases if the person cant help themselves or are unwilling to do so what really can be done apart from the use of force? I don’t think anyone would advocate the use of force to lock people up in institutions because they are a drug addict or have a drink problem, yet there is only so much the state can do. Blaming the state or society is really a cop out. Blame more often then not should be apportioned to the individual in question in 'most' cases. Here in Sydney there is a massive amount of homelessness, junkies looking like death wandering about the place and lots of mental people having a huge argument with an invisible friend. I would imagine that services for these types of people are better than Ireland seeing as Australia is one of the most wealthy countries on earth yet, there is only so much the state can do short of locking these people up until 'they get better'. No easy fix to individual choice even if that choice is to drink themselves to death over a number of years.

Slydice · 04-03-2013 12:03AM

I wonder if he stays there because it's a decent location for a homeless person to sleep. He's not the only homeless person sleeping rough around Dublin.

I can't remember for sure but the idea that some people don't like the temporary solutions to homelessness which the state provides is in my head. Something about ending up in multibed shared hostel rooms with people injecting stuff or violent people creeping them out.

Anyway, I think one big deal for most people is security. After you've bedded down for the night, you like to feel secure. There's a garda over at the entrance to Leinster House. There's probably a bit of a feeling of more security than not having a garda nearby if you sleep close to Leinster House.

Qualitymark · 04-03-2013 03:05AM

A life in an asylum provided food and shelter, at the cost of freedom. And still does, for many people sectioned there. It's still a dangerous moral question.

Certainly today, there are some mentally ill people sleeping rough. But it's not a good idea, I think, to assume that all rough sleepers are people who have chosen to spend their nights in a sleeping bag in a doorway, padded against the icy pavement with cardboard from packing boxes, and if you're lucky with a dog tucked in with you to provide heat and guarding.

Most rough sleepers would jump at the chance of their own home. The man who died in Bray, for example, was due to move into sheltered housing, where he would have been assisted to live.

Edit: you might like to glance through this very interesting British pamphlet on poverty, produced by the Baptists, Methodists, Church of Scotland and United Reformed Church http://www.jointpublicissues.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Truth-And-Lies-Report-smaller.pdf

A Primal Nut · 04-03-2013 10:34AM

All this outrage is great but any chance of some solutions. Do you think if you were in government there would be no more homeless people - how would you fix that?

Qualitymark · 04-03-2013 10:50AM

Peter McVerry probably knows more about the subject than anyone in Ireland, having been working in the area of homelessness since the 1970s. Here's a podcast interview:

http://ip.podcast-directory.co.uk/episodes/solutions-to-homelessness-peter-mcverry-sj-14235015.html

Apanachi · 04-03-2013 02:43PM

murphaph wrote: »

It is not a problem restricted to Dublin or Ireland. I live not far from a homeless shelter here in Berlin. The lads have a warm place to bed down but continue to drink themselves into oblivion outside the nearby Lidl starting at 8:00AM every single day when I'm on my way to work and still being there at 18:00 when I come home. Some folks are beyond help or don't see the problem in the first place.

I have to agree with murphaph here at least as far as Berlin is concerned, there really is no reason why anyone in Germany should be homeless, there is plenty of places they can go to for help, but they choose not to (I know alcoholism is an illness and's it not easy to just stop, but if people really want to, they can.

I know a guy who is an alcoholic, was in and out of jail through his teens and twenties, he lived on the streets for years and had no income apart from wht he got from begging and stealing, he could have got help way back then, but preferred to live on the streets and drink.

Now years later, he has a family, is off the drink, has a nice appartment (he can't work, because he is disabled (has nothing to do with the drink though), but he climbed out of the huge hole he had dug himself into and is living a good life, everyday is a struggle, but he gets up and fights that battle on a daily basis - if you want it hard enough, you can get out of it.

Sleeping rough just yards from the Dail.

Comments