The myth of the "welfare scrounger"

Tiddlypeeps · 15-03-2013 09:17PM #1

Pretty interesting article about people on social welfare in the UK.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/03/myth-welfare-scrounger

The analysis looks at the benefit claims history, going back four years, of people who made a claim for unemployment benefit in 2010-11. For a sample group of 32-33 year olds who claimed Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) in 2010-11, 40 per cent of them had not made a claim before in that period. Sixty three per cent had spent no more than six months of the previous four years on JSA. And almost four out of five claimants had spent at least three quarters of the past four years off the dole. The idea that these claimants are 'trapped' in a 'dependency culture' is absurd.

I think we have a similar social welfare system to the UK and we definitely have a large number of vocal people here that view the social welfare system as a trap so I would like to see a similar study for people on social welfare in this country. I would imagine the results would be fairly similar but I could be very wrong.

The title of the article is fairly misleading because the stats don't really prove that welfare scroungers don't exist, they just show that they make up at most 11% of all people on Jobseekers. What it does essentially prove tho is that the social welfare system is not a trap and the vast majority of people don't get stuck.

I would most like to see a study like this done over here because if it showed that we don't have an issue with people getting trapped in the social welfare system then any resources spent on addressing that issue are misplaced. If it turned out that it is an issue over here then we should look into closer modeling our welfare system on that of the UK.

Richard Hillman · 15-03-2013 09:22PM

There is no myth, its fact. You just have to walk around Dublin City Centre to see them. NOBODY is saying that all people on welfare are scroungers. Its not even a majority.

I say that as somebody that is on Social Welfare. Go to a monthly sign on and stand in the queue for 20 mins and you will realise the percentage of scroungers to people that have fallen on bad times. Its a high percentage and the place stinks of booze. You can easily spot the scroungers and the people that are mortified to be there.

Fr_Dougal · 15-03-2013 09:24PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I think we have a similar social welfare system to the UK.

You're wrong.

senorwipesalot · 15-03-2013 09:24PM

Go for it OP,sounds like fun.

lazygal · 15-03-2013 09:25PM

Anyone know how I can get started scrounging?

Tiddlypeeps · 15-03-2013 09:25PM

senorwipesalot wrote: »

Go for it OP,sounds like fun.

That information isn't publicly available

Nodin · 15-03-2013 09:25PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There is no myth, its fact. You just have to walk around Dublin City Centre to see them. NOBODY is saying that all people on welfare are scroungers. Its not even a majority.
I say that as somebody that is on Social Welfare. Go to a monthly sign on and stand in the queue for 20 mins and you will realise the percentage of scroungers to people that have fallen on bad times. Its a high percentage and the place stinks of booze.
.......

For a second there I was worried this thread would be drowned with yet more anecdotal tales that back up their posters bias' but no.....

No more nonsense · 15-03-2013 09:28PM

Untrue, we have single mothers, scangers and god knows what other despicable creature making a living off of milking the hard working taxpayer. If I had my way these people wouldn't be allowed welfare unless I could see they were looking for a job. Get off your hole scroungers and do a descent days work like the rest of us.

Mod: Troll has been banned.

kneemos · 15-03-2013 09:29PM

The celtic tiger proved that we don't have scroungers,people want to work.The three or four percent unemployed we had during the tiger years was made up of the unemployable or those between jobs.

professore · 15-03-2013 09:30PM

I think we have a similar social welfare system to the UK

Ours is FAR more generous.

SB2013 · 15-03-2013 09:31PM

What's all this about being "trapped"? Welfare scroungers aren't trapped. They are right where they want to be. It's the genuine down on their luck people that are the trapped ones.

Logical_Bear · 15-03-2013 09:32PM

No more nonsense wrote: »

Untrue, we have single mothers, scangers and god knows what other despicable creature making a living off of milking the hard working taxpayer. If I had my way these people wouldn't be allowed welfare unless I could see they were looking for a job. Get off your hole scroungers and do a descent days work like the rest of us.

shut up

Wompa1 · 15-03-2013 09:35PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Pretty interesting article about people on social welfare in the UK.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/03/myth-welfare-scrounger

I think we have a similar social welfare system to the UK and we definitely have a large number of vocal people here that view the social welfare system as a trap so I would like to see a similar study for people on social welfare in this country. I would imagine the results would be fairly similar but I could be very wrong.

The title of the article is fairly misleading because the stats don't really prove that welfare scroungers don't exist, they just show that they make up at most 11% of all people on Jobseekers. What it does essentially prove tho is that the social welfare system is not a trap and the vast majority of people don't get stuck.

I would most like to see a study like this done over here because if it showed that we don't have an issue with people getting trapped in the social welfare system then any resources spent on addressing that issue are misplaced. If it turned out that it is an issue over here then we should look into closer modeling our welfare system on that of the UK.

Would be tough to correlate the data from the Jobseekers to number of mature students enrolling and emigration..

mattjack · 15-03-2013 09:39PM

No more nonsense wrote: »

Untrue, we have single mothers, scangers and god knows what other despicable creature making a living off of milking the hard working taxpayer. If I had my way these people wouldn't be allowed welfare unless I could see they were looking for a job. Get off your hole scroungers and do a descent days work like the rest of us.

As a tracksuit wearing single mother of four , two of whom are in prison and one of whom is the offspring of a Nigerian Prince , I would like to register my wholehearted agreement with you .My other son is a left handed taxi driving Dutch Gold drinking reprobate too.

kneemos · 15-03-2013 09:41PM

Most of the money these so called scroungers get goes back to the government in tax so iu doesn't matter.

My name is URL · 15-03-2013 09:42PM

professore wrote: »

Ours is FAR more generous.

For some it's relatively more generous, but that's down to poor administration etc more than anything else. The UK pumps a lot more money into areas departmentally unrelated to yet intrinsic to social 'welfare' as a whole.

mlumley · 15-03-2013 09:46PM

No more nonsense wrote: »

Untrue, we have single mothers, scangers and god knows what other despicable creature making a living off of milking the hard working taxpayer. If I had my way these people wouldn't be allowed welfare unless I could see they were looking for a job. Get off your hole scroungers and do a descent days work like the rest of us.

And if you live in a rural area, or an area of high unemployment and people in your areaare getting laid off, (240 where I live just got notice of their jobs going), where are the jobs???????

By f**k, I'd love one. But who is going to employ a 62 y.o man with no trade.

If jobs are so plentifull, go find me one, I can start Tuesday.

Cuddlesworth · 15-03-2013 09:48PM

I'd like to see a similar study across the age ranges.

Tiddlypeeps · 15-03-2013 10:02PM

kneemos wrote: »

Most of the money these so called scroungers get goes back to the government in tax so iu doesn't matter.

What? I know tax is high, but I wasn't aware it had hit 100% just yet.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'd like to see a similar study across the age ranges.

Ye I would like to see that too. I'm not sure why the study only looks at such a small age group.

I'm thinking maybe it's because that age group might be considered the most employable? (don't even know if that's true) So it isolates the study to people who are the most likely to have jobs available too them. Showing that when people have jobs available to them the vast majority will take them. Maybe? Just a guess.

stunmer · 15-03-2013 10:09PM

kneemos wrote: »

Most of the money these so called scroungers get goes back to the government in tax so iu doesn't matter.

How so?

bleg · 15-03-2013 10:11PM

kneemos wrote: »

Most of the money these so called scroungers get goes back to the government in tax so iu doesn't matter.

Ah sure that's grand. I suppose that covers the cost of their medical card yea?

steddyeddy · 15-03-2013 10:19PM

4-5% of the workforce were unemployed during the celtic tiger. I believe in evidence not general feelings and the evidence says there are very very few welfare scroungers. They are certainly not responsible for the recession in Ireland.

kneemos · 15-03-2013 10:22PM

stunmer wrote: »

How so?

Tax on beer and tobacco if you believe what some here seem to think,granted there are some in every area that spend their dole on drink but are a tiny minority of those unemployed.

joebloggs32 · 15-03-2013 10:24PM

kneemos wrote: »

The celtic tiger proved that we don't have scroungers,people want to work.The three or four percent unemployed we had during the tiger years was made up of the unemployable or those between jobs.

There was over 150k on the dole in the boom and we had to import labour from all over Europe to fill gaps in the workforce. I would say that amounts to quite a lot of scroungers in this small country. I know a certain amount would have been between jobs, but it wasn't hard to find one at the time if you really wanted one.

Pushtrak · 15-03-2013 10:27PM

As expected, people posting here who buy into the Poor Law rhetoric.

Munstermissy · 15-03-2013 10:28PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There is no myth, its fact. You just have to walk around Dublin City Centre to see them. NOBODY is saying that all people on welfare are scroungers. Its not even a majority.

I say that as somebody that is on Social Welfare. Go to a monthly sign on and stand in the queue for 20 mins and you will realise the percentage of scroungers to people that have fallen on bad times. Its a high percentage and the place stinks of booze. You can easily spot the scroungers and the people that are mortified to be there.

Not everybody is mortified to be there, it's s fact of life in this day and age. I have spent the last 15 months on the dole after having worked the last 23 years. Im not a scrounger and certainly was not mortified signing on.

Glad to say, I signed off two weeks ago and back working again. Happy bloody days:)

hatrickpatrick · 15-03-2013 10:46PM

The anti-dole venom in the Irish media at the moment is very similar to the public vs private sector "civil war" - it's all a concocted campaign of "divide and rule" by the politicians and the financial sector to distract us from attacking the people who actually deserve it.
There are people around here who have more disdain for their fellow ordinary citizens than they do for corrupt politicians and banksters, which is all the evidence you need that this campaign has worked. And while the people continue to swallow these cues and battle eachother, people like Bertie are still getting money from the exchequer, bankers are still being paid six figure bonuses from the exchequer, Noonan & Kenny are still personally overriding salary caps for their political advisors, paid by the exchequer, and nobody is doing a f*cking thing about it.
Meanwhile anyone who tries to start any form of protest against this continued atrocity is dismissed as a hippy, a crank, and so on. :mad:

RayM · 15-03-2013 10:54PM

joebloggs32 wrote: »

There was over 150k on the dole in the boom and we had to import labour from all over Europe to fill gaps in the workforce.

Only a fraction of those people were long-term unemployed.

Chuck Stone · 15-03-2013 10:54PM

Even when it was the bears I knew it was those black, Arab, single mother, Travellers with their pram schemes.

Geuze · 15-03-2013 11:04PM

In many studies, NESC have found high rates of dependency on means-tested social transfers in Ireland.

It's not a myth.

The numbers of JSB/JSA may have fallen during the strong econ expansion of 1994-2006, but the numbers on disability and OPFP increased.

See here:

http://files.nesc.ie/nesc_reports/en/NESC_113.pdf

NESC report 113

In particular, see page 2

Also see graph 3.2 on p53.

Dwork · 15-03-2013 11:05PM

lazygal wrote: »

Anyone know how I can get started scrounging?

Walk around filling station forecourts asking "Sorry, do you speak english?" Take it from there.:)

The myth of the "welfare scrounger"

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