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    Nelson Mandela: Hero or Villain?

    • 23-06-2013 11:22PM
      #1
      pheno
      Closed Accounts Posts: 79
      ✭✭


      I've been hearing a lot about Nelson Mandela on the radio recently, primarily about his health, so I thought I should know more about the man.

      What I would like to know is, some consider him a hero for his fight to end apartheid (segregation) in South Africa, others say he is a terrorist and a communist.

      Now I am aware that ANC had connections with the Soviet Union but what exactly makes Mandela "good" or "bad"?

      Thanks...


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    Comments

    • #2
      Hitchens
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 Hitchens
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      still here! :)


    • #3
      dodderangler
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,203 dodderangler
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      Immortal
      The fcuker just won't die


    • #4
      hidinginthebush
      Closed Accounts Posts: 2,679 hidinginthebush
      ✭✭✭


      Maggie Thatcher saw him as a terrorist, so he's good in my books!


    • #5
      Hitchens
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 Hitchens
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      has he Irish antecedents? :pac:


    • #6
      Wacker The Attacker
      Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 Wacker The Attacker
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      He's treated as some sort of saint.

      I still haven't met anyone who has explained exactly why


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    • #7
      Fr_Dougal
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 Fr_Dougal
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      Well he played a hero in Snakes On A Plane.


    • #8
      Hitchens
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 Hitchens
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      was he ever shot by Bang Bang? :P


    • #9
      Wacker The Attacker
      Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 Wacker The Attacker
      ✭✭✭


      Hitchens wrote: »
      was he ever shot by Bang Bang? :P

      Hey hi diddly ay and out goes she


    • #10
      Busted Flat.
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 Busted Flat.
      ✭✭✭


      IMHO, he was as useful to his country, as an ashtray on a motorbike.


    • #11
      pheno
      Closed Accounts Posts: 79 pheno
      ✭✭


      I always wondered, why is he considered such a saint? I mean surely there has to be a darker side to his "holiness".


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    • #12
      Hitchens
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 Hitchens
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      will he croak in time for tomorrows episode of................'Da Lavelahn'? :D


    • #13
      thorbarry
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 thorbarry
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      Sidekick


    • #14
      super_furry
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,355 super_furry
      ✭✭✭✭


      You look at the people who slate him - Thatcher, BNP leader Nick Griffin, etc and it's pretty clear that he's a hero.


    • #15
      Buzz84
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 217 Buzz84
      ✭✭


      pheno wrote: »
      I've been hearing a lot about Nelson Mandela on the radio recently, primarily about his health, so I thought I should know more about the man.

      What I would like to know is, some consider him a hero for his fight to end apartheid (segregation) in South Africa, others say he is a terrorist and a communist.

      Now I am aware that ANC had connections with the Soviet Union but what exactly makes Mandela "good" or "bad"?

      Thanks...

      How does that make you bad?


    • #16
      Duggys Housemate
      Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 Duggys Housemate
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      Busted Flat. wrote: »
      IMHO, he was as useful to his country, as an ashtray on a motorbike.

      Yes but you know nothing Botha boy.


    • #17
      Duggys Housemate
      Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 Duggys Housemate
      ✭✭✭


      Buzz84 wrote: »
      How does that make you bad?

      He wasn't a communist but were he one he wouldn't be a hero. Same as fascism.


    • #18
      wes
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 wes
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      The man was a hero imho. Sure he wasn't perfect, but then no one is.


    • #19
      Buzz84
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 217 Buzz84
      ✭✭


      Duggys Housemate wrote: »
      He wasn't a communist but were he one he wouldn't be a hero. Same as fascism.

      Could you please explain why?


    • #20
      Duggys Housemate
      Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 Duggys Housemate
      ✭✭✭


      Major member of ANC.
      Set up the armed wing , which was a "clean" terror group targeting government buildings etc. ( although later , when he was in jail it commited some civilian attacks).
      spent 27 years in jail.
      Helped end apartheid with DeKlerk when he was released.

      Probably stopped a civil war because he was loved by white and black as president.

      Other than that - he didn't help much.


    • #21
      Duggys Housemate
      Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 Duggys Housemate
      ✭✭✭


      Buzz84 wrote: »
      Could you please explain why?

      Because communism is a necessarily totalitarian system. Since he is not one this is off topic. Set up a thread in politics and invite me in if you want to discuss political theories - though it's been done to death.


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    • #22
      [Deleted User]
      Posts: 0 [Deleted User]
      ✭


      Duggys Housemate wrote: »
      Major member of ANC.
      Set up the armed wing , which was a "clean" terror group targeting government buildings etc. ( although later , when he was in jail it commited some civilian attacks).
      spent 27 years in jail.
      Helped end apartheid with DeKlerk when he was released.

      Probably stopped a civil war because he was loved by white and black as president.

      Other than that - he didn't help much.

      You forgot to add what seems to have happened after: where under Mandela SA becomes a practical one party state with some of the most corrupt leaders in the world, who Mandela not only endorses, but uses his own personal cash to prop them up.

      I can see why the Irish establishment love him, at least.


    • #23
      T-Maxx
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,270 T-Maxx
      ✭✭✭


      Busted Flat. wrote: »
      IMHO, he was as useful to his country, as an ashtray on a motorbike.

      Love him or hate him, at least educate yourself before you make comments like this.


    • #24
      Busted Flat.
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 Busted Flat.
      ✭✭✭


      T-Maxx wrote: »
      Love him or hate him, at least educate yourself before you make comments like this.

      I have, and I would like to hear of some of his achievements, after he became president and his country was so called liberated. Besides the corruption.


    • #25
      Duggys Housemate
      Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 Duggys Housemate
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      Rojomcdojo wrote: »
      You forgot to add what seems to have happened after: where under Mandela SA becomes a practical one party state with some of the most corrupt leaders in the world, who Mandela not only endorses, but uses his own personal cash to prop them up.

      I can see why the Irish establishment love him, at least.

      He's a member of the ANC. Two problems there

      1) the ANC may be corrupt ( I really don't know) but it's not a racist anti democratic force oppressing a minority which is also corrupt. That's progress. Making things better is not the same as making things perfect. The first is possible, the second is idealism.
      2) it's a one party state because people vote that way. Eventually newer parties will take over.

      Things might get worse from now but that will be because Mandela is gone.


    • #26
      Duggys Housemate
      Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 Duggys Housemate
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      Busted Flat. wrote: »
      I have, and I would like to hear of some of his achievements, after he became president and his country was so called liberated. Besides the corruption.

      He ended apartheid, Botha boy. It wasn't so-called liberated it was actually liberated.

      Is this hatred of Mandela because the typical Irish mediocrity is anti all politicians now , or is there something more sinister going on.


    • #27
      T-Maxx
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,270 T-Maxx
      ✭✭✭


      Duggys Housemate wrote: »
      He ended apartheid, Botha boy. It wasn't so-called liberated it was actually liberated.

      Is this hatred of Mandela because the typical Irish mediocrity is anti all politicians now , or is there something more sinister going on.

      I think you nailed it there.


    • #28
      Busted Flat.
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 Busted Flat.
      ✭✭✭


      Duggys Housemate wrote: »
      He ended apartheid, Botha boy. It wasn't so-called liberated it was actually liberated.

      Is this hatred of Mandela because the typical Irish mediocrity is anti all politicians now , or is there something more sinister going on.

      Childish abuse is not necessary. Your comment is not worthy of a reply.


    • #29
      Celly Smunt
      Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 Celly Smunt
      ✭✭✭


      More of a poster boy for the new movement than anything else.There were more effective figures pulling his strings behind the scenes.


      Just to clarify I don't mean that in a crazed conspiricy theorist kind of way.He was a puppet used by his own,and no harm really.


    • #30
      grizzly
      Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 grizzly
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      Busted Flat. wrote: »
      I have, and I would like to hear of some of his achievements, after he became president and his country was so called liberated. Besides the corruption.

      One of the biggest achievements was simply keeping everything together. SA could have been torn apart with people taking revenge for years of oppression. Mandela showed tremendous forgiveness towards the people who made his life hell.


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    • #31
      Duggys Housemate
      Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 Duggys Housemate
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      Busted Flat. wrote: »
      Childish abuse is not necessary. Your comment is not worthy of a reply.

      I'm calling you that because you mistook DeKlerk for Botha in the other thread but were certain as to why "Botha" was doing a deal. Strong statements need people to know what they are talking about and you seem to have no clue on Mandela, just a taxi driver rant on the lines of "they're all the same".


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