Your view on Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill

RandomName2 · 10-07-2013 03:42PM #1

The adverts of the Youth Defence group the recent case concerning Savita Halappanavar, the protestation of TDs etc. have all been obvious in the last while - but what do people feel about the controversial bill? 35,000 marched against it the other day - but are they representative?

There's been a couple of straw polls taken about whether people supported the bill or not - but none that have asked people what they believe should be enacted.

10-07-2013 03:43PM

What are your views, OP?

wretcheddomain · 10-07-2013 03:44PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

35,000 marched against it the other day - but are they representative?

Of course not - a good deal of them were children under duress from their dinosaur parents to prop up the numbers.

The remaining adults are Ireland's resident loonies and in no way representative of the vast majority of people i.e. the normal Irish person who wants a morally progressive society and not an archaic degenerative one which the Catholic fascists would like us to descend into.

If I had the keys, I'd open the floodgates to abortion. The only good thing about the current legislation is that you get a weekend away in England.

RandomName2 · 10-07-2013 03:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What are your views, OP?

Quite neutral actually. :pac:

Sounds strange for someone posting a poll on it but I'm interested in how much coverage the aspects concerning "suicide ideation" etc. have received. Is it relevant?

krudler · 10-07-2013 03:50PM

But those marching Saturday warned that women would conspire with sympathetic doctors to fake suicide threats, putting Ireland on a slippery slope to wider abortion access. Ireland is just one of two European Union members, alongside Malta, that outlaws the practice.

Ah YD, keeping those sneaky women in place. and no the 35,000 (or 60,000 if you're to believe YD) aren't a majority representative, a huge chunk of that is kids and oap's. so people either too young or old to have kids.

Cody Pomeray · 10-07-2013 03:50PM

Full abortion with time limit. No question.

Until the stage of potential viability, I'm on the pro choice side. After the stage of potential viability, I'm on the pro life side.

Nodin · 10-07-2013 03:51PM

krudler wrote: »

Ah YD, keeping those sneaky women in place.

Like Ninjas, but with more Satan.

Teyla Emmagan · 10-07-2013 03:53PM

I don't know what you meant by 'Full abortion', but in case you meant up to 9 months I went for the first trimester option. I think it should be available up to whatever the limit is in England.

laoch na mona · 10-07-2013 03:53PM

i say go for full legislation. my personal view is that abortion should only be carried out in certain circumstances but my opinion only effects me no one else should be bound by it

10-07-2013 03:54PM

I never understood why they call it the Protection of Life.

It didn't protect Savita Halappanavar life, did it? If she had been allowed to get an abortion (and have proper medical care), then she would still be alive. One of the stories I always remember in this debate is about a young girl a few years ago who was pregnant; it was found that the baby had a defect and would essentially be born brain-dead. The girl wanted to go to England to get it aborted, but was refused when it was discovered. Where was her protection? Nowhere. She was forced to deliver this baby.

I don't agree that people should be allowed to get abortions willynilly - I'm not going to look down on someone if they decide to do so, because I'm not an obnoxious prick, but in cases where it poses a risk to the mother's life, or where the baby has absolutely no chance at life, or if there is a legitimate suicidal risk to the mother, then of course, abortion should be allowed. If people really want to do so, then it's going to be incredible hard to stop them, especially with plane tickets to England being as cheap as they are.

Instead Ireland should move into the present and realize that the 1950's attitude it has doesn't apply anymore.

Tiddlypeeps · 10-07-2013 03:56PM

I think the only reason a lot of those people are out marching is because they see this as a slippery slope. They don't want abortion on demand and they feel this is one step towards it.

The big thing I don't understand is why people get so up in arms about the suicide claus. They put forward the argument that lots of highly respected psychologist state that an abortion is unlikely to ever help a woman that is suicidal. If that is true then why is legislating for it an issue. If no psychologist will ever agree that a woman can be saved in that way by having an abortion then the legislation will never need to be used. The legislation pretty much states that IF an abortion can save a woman from suicide then she is entitled to one. If that condition is never met (and if they are right then it won't) then there is no issue. If they are wrong then a woman could die unnecessarily because the legislation won't exist to save her.

I would have liked to see another referendum on this before they passed the bill, mostly because it's been so long since the last ones. It's worrying that the government can just outright ignore than many people.

I'm very much pro choice and I think if it did go to a referendum then the legislation would have passed anyway, but it's pretty worrying that in a supposed democracy that many voices can just be ignored.

Amirani · 10-07-2013 03:58PM

Full abortion until the point in a pregnancy when the foetus is likely to be able to survive unaided outside the womb. Hence I've gone for the first trimester option.

eviltwin · 10-07-2013 04:00PM

I went for full abortion. Most abortions happen in the first trimester anyway but where does that leave someone with a pregnancy where they only find out at the 20 week scan the child has a disability or other serious condition?

I would also like to see proper pre and post abortion counselling and more open adoptions where birth parents are still allowed have an ongoing relationship with their children which might make adoption a more attractive option for some people.

I'd also like to see full sex education rolled out to every single school in the country regardless of ethos and free sexual health care so access to contraception is more accessable to people on low incomes.

uch · 10-07-2013 04:01PM

Where's the 'Atari Jaguar' or 'stick yer Poll up yer jaxie' option? not a valid AH poll without one or the other of these

jank · 10-07-2013 04:08PM

krudler wrote: »

Ah YD, keeping those sneaky women in place. and no the 35,000 (or 60,000 if you're to believe YD) aren't a majority representative, a huge chunk of that is kids and oap's. so people either too young or old to have kids.

If you put forward that weak argument than only woman of child rearing age should have an opinion on the matter.

krudler · 10-07-2013 04:14PM

jank wrote: »

If you put forward that weak argument than only woman of child rearing age should have an opinion on the matter.

Didn't say they shouldn't have an opinion on it, but they're not a majority representitive, just because YD ships busloads of them in doesn't mean they speak for the rest of the country.

jank · 10-07-2013 04:17PM

That is true but neither do those who want abortion on demand represent the wider public either as many here try to claim.

Holsten · 10-07-2013 04:22PM

Anything that moves towards fully legal abortion is good in my eyes.

Every woman should at least have the choice.

looking_around · 10-07-2013 04:22PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I think the only reason a lot of those people are out marching is because they see this as a slippery slope. They don't want abortion on demand and they feel this is one step towards it.

The big thing I don't understand is why people get so up in arms about the suicide claus. They put forward the argument that lots of highly respected psychologist state that an abortion is unlikely to ever help a woman that is suicidal. If that is true then why is legislating for it an issue. If no psychologist will ever agree that a woman can be saved in that way by having an abortion then the legislation will never need to be used. The legislation pretty much states that IF an abortion can save a woman from suicide then she is entitled to one. If that condition is never met (and if they are right then it won't) then there is no issue. If they are wrong then a woman could die unnecessarily because the legislation won't exist to save her.

I would have liked to see another referendum on this before they passed the bill, mostly because it's been so long since the last ones. It's worrying that the government can just outright ignore than many people.

I'm very much pro choice and I think if it did go to a referendum then the legislation would have passed anyway, but it's pretty worrying that in a supposed democracy that many voices can just be ignored.

Couldn't agree more with you.

I know in my case, I would top myself if I got pregnant. No way would I go through with it. It just wouldn't happen and fcuk anyone else who thinks I'm wrong/foolish/whatever.
They're not the ones who feel it's a parasite that's physically changing them and fcuking them over.

jank · 10-07-2013 04:31PM

looking_around wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with you.

I know in my case, I would top myself if I got pregnant. No way would I go through with it. It just wouldn't happen and fcuk anyone else who thinks I'm wrong/foolish/whatever.
They're not the ones who feel it's a parasite that's physically changing them and fcuking them over.

Oh FFS, here we go again... When I hear this bull**** I just have to wonder what type of human they are. Sure you can tell me go fcuk myself but I can tell you what a piece of work you are.

Tiddlypeeps · 10-07-2013 04:37PM

jank wrote: »

Oh FFS, here we go again... When I hear this bull**** I just have to wonder what type of human they are. Sure you can tell me go fcuk myself but I can tell you what a piece of work you are.

Do you believe that blood donation should be mandatory?

Do you believe that donation of non vital organs (like a kidney) should be mandatory?

eviltwin · 10-07-2013 04:37PM

jank wrote: »

Oh FFS, here we go again... When I hear this bull**** I just have to wonder what type of human they are. Sure you can tell me go fcuk myself but I can tell you what a piece of work you are.

No wonder people feel that the legislation is totally unworkable when someone who admits a pregnancy would make them feel suicidal gets this kind of reply.

looking_around · 10-07-2013 04:39PM

jank wrote: »

Oh FFS, here we go again... When I hear this bull**** I just have to wonder what type of human they are. Sure you can tell me go fcuk myself but I can tell you what a piece of work you are.

feel free :rolleyes:
But you're not in my body with my life...

10-07-2013 04:44PM

Women should not have to travel to the UK to abort babies that will die upon birth. I think that's a disgrace and something that needs looked at.

FG are gutless conservatives.

uch · 10-07-2013 05:02PM

Surely to God this is all the fault of the Public servants and their great pensions again.

jank · 10-07-2013 05:02PM

looking_around wrote: »

feel free :rolleyes:
But you're not in my body with my life...

I am objecting to the term that an unborn child is termed a parasite, thus we can reach a moral equivalence that we can legitimately terminate them without any moral dilemmas whatsoever. I do not understand this aggression against pregnancy. Saying that I have only really seen it on this board during the latest abortion debate and its probably more keyboard warrior speak than anything else.

krudler · 10-07-2013 05:09PM

jank wrote: »

I am objecting to the term that an unborn child is termed a parasite, thus we can reach a moral equivalence that we can legitimately terminate them without any moral dilemmas whatsoever. I do not understand this aggression against pregnancy. Saying that I have only really seen it on this board during the latest abortion debate and its probably more keyboard warrior speak than anything else.

from wiki:

Parasitism is a non-mutual relationship between organisms of different species where one organism, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the other, the host

It's an apt description whether you like it or not. Some women simply don't want to be pregnant, shouldn't that be enough of a reason? it's not all sunshine and rainbows its a life changing condition for a lot of women. Months of sickness, weight gain, hormonal effects, the birth itself and subsequent complications to her health and body etc etc.

wretcheddomain · 10-07-2013 05:15PM

Great news to see 71% polled so far are in favour of abortion, either full or up to the first trimester.

To all you fanatics out there, I've got a message for you, clear and loud - You've Lost - your waffle means precious little any more and the percentage of folks in favour of abortion will rise and rise as the older moral dinosaurs die out.

+ 1 to everyone who voted as part of the 71%.

This is a massive kick up the arse to the anti-women brigade and hopefully their ilk will die off quickly alongside their archaic moral positions.

matthew8 · 10-07-2013 05:19PM

I guess I'd legalise it but I really don't care about abortion, and I'd imagine most of the population aren't too bothered either way as well.

eviltwin · 10-07-2013 05:21PM

jank wrote: »

I am objecting to the term that an unborn child is termed a parasite, thus we can reach a moral equivalence that we can legitimately terminate them without any moral dilemmas whatsoever. I do not understand this aggression against pregnancy. Saying that I have only really seen it on this board during the latest abortion debate and its probably more keyboard warrior speak than anything else.

I don't see any aggression towards pregnancy. Pregnancy can be great if its something you really want and I don't see anyone not supporting women who go ahead with a crisis pregnancy. But it can also be a time of great worry and stress for some women, its a huge decision to have a child, one of the biggest anyone will ever make and you're earlier post sounds like you are telling women who feel its the end of the world to cop themselves on and just deal with it.

looking_around · 10-07-2013 05:21PM

jank wrote: »

I am objecting to the term that an unborn child is termed a parasite, thus we can reach a moral equivalence that we can legitimately terminate them without any moral dilemmas whatsoever. I do not understand this aggression against pregnancy. Saying that I have only really seen it on this board during the latest abortion debate and its probably more keyboard warrior speak than anything else.

I have always felt this way!
And people who know me, know my aversion to pregnancy. It is what I feel. And you're allowed disagree with me.
The same way I'm allowed to despise the idea of getting pregnant.

A pregnancy would be equal to parasite to me, hence the term. Yeah it often shocks people that I feel this way, but again. They're not in my body, with my life.!

Your view on Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill

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