'Racist ' Comments

Nodster · 18-07-2013 11:08AM

Suppose it's not kosher to say I'm off for a Barry White the next time I'm off to the loo?

Duckjob · 18-07-2013 11:29AM

My definition of racism is having an unfounded negative opinion of a different race.

When I was in school I had an argument with our civics teacher who said that even acknowledging any difference between you and another race made you rascist. A 13-yr-old Duckjob told her her viewpoint was ridiculous and part of the problem

18-07-2013 11:34AM

Nodster wrote: »

Suppose it's not kosher to say I'm off for a Barry White the next time I'm off to the loo?

Well it's certainly not polite. Saying you're "off to the loo" is usually sufficient, once there you can have a 'peddle & crank', a 'Jimmy Riddle' or indeed a 'Barry White', though I have to say that rhyming slang is far more diverse and open to interpretation than it ever was, if you must use colour and rhyme in reference to your feces why not namecheck another singer of songs from the 70's namely, Barry Blue, as in Blue=Poo.
Besides, I truly believe that the late great Walrus of Love deserves more respect then to be compared to your sh1te.
Have some manners please.

jimgoose · 18-07-2013 11:38AM

9959 wrote: »

Well it's certainly not polite. Saying you're "off to the loo" is usually sufficient, once there you can have a 'peddle & crank', a 'Jimmy Riddle' or indeed a 'Barry White', though I have to say that rhyming slang is far more diverse and open to interpretation than it ever was, if you must use colour and rhyme in reference to your feces why not namecheck another singer of songs from the 70's namely, Barry Blue, as in Blue=Poo.
Besides, I truly believe that the late great Walrus of Love deserves more respect then to be compared to your sh1te.
Have some manners please.

You'll find that the correct term is "Efan", as in Efan Ekoku.

Crooked Jack · 18-07-2013 11:38AM

Davidth88 wrote: »

With a major story line appearing in Coronation St where someone uses the phrase

' Play the White man '

and this is taken as racist.

What do people think, my understanding is that this turn of phrase came from the black/white movies , esp westerns , where the 'goodie' always wore a white hat, so is not actually racist per se.

To me ( a middle aged bloke ) , it's amazing what's now taken as racist, apparently if you are watching a kids football game and the only black player is very good and you turn round and say ' who is the black kid , he is good ' , that's now racist. Why ? To me you are only using a distinguishing feature such as ginger hair or tall/short.

I always understood racisim as if you act differently towards someone of a different race purely because of their race

last year the British secretary of state (at the time) Owen Paterson came to Newry to launch some business venture. It was around the time of the fiscal treaty and when he was questioned on it he said "well, Britain has always stood by Ireland in Europe and played the white man."
I questioned him and his office on it and they refused to answer.
But yes, i looked it up for the story I was doing and it's an old, colonial, racist term.

wadacrack · 18-07-2013 11:39AM

Davidth88 wrote: »

With a major story line appearing in Coronation St where someone uses the phrase

' Play the White man '

and this is taken as racist.

What do people think, my understanding is that this turn of phrase came from the black/white movies , esp westerns , where the 'goodie' always wore a white hat, so is not actually racist per se.

To me ( a middle aged bloke ) , it's amazing what's now taken as racist, apparently if you are watching a kids football game and the only black player is very good and you turn round and say ' who is the black kid , he is good ' , that's now racist. Why ? To me you are only using a distinguishing feature such as ginger hair or tall/short.

I always understood racisim as if you act differently towards someone of a different race purely because of their race

It is a touch racist tho.If It was said play the black man in an american tv show there would be no doubt. The phrase is using an old stereotype which is just stupid and backdated

Irish Guitarist · 18-07-2013 11:54AM

Years ago in Eastenders Dot Cotton went to one of the market stalls and asked for some 'nigger brown' wool. They would never get away with that now. Also the Indian residents were referred to as pakis.

wp_rathead · 18-07-2013 11:55AM

My house mate was telling me about time he was playing astroturf and when team were deciding who was in goals he immediatly touched his nose and went "nigs" (Not In Goals). Now there were players on the other team who happened to be black and took great offence.to him saying this - not believing that it had no racial connotation as it sounded similar to the "N" word.

My point is that sometimes things can be lost in translation as racism is such an emotive issue.. i

FTA69 · 18-07-2013 11:57AM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Years ago in Eastenders Dot Cotton went to one of the market stalls and asked for some 'nigger brown' wool. They would never get away with that now. Also the Indian residents would be referred to as pakis.

If Eastenders was realistic half of the cast would be from Bangladesh.

kylith · 18-07-2013 12:03PM

Davidth88 wrote: »

To me ( a middle aged bloke ) , it's amazing what's now taken as racist, apparently if you are watching a kids football game and the only black player is very good and you turn round and say ' who is the black kid , he is good ' , that's now racist. Why ? To me you are only using a distinguishing feature such as ginger hair or tall/short.

We were talking about it in work yesterday, and basically in Ireland 'Black person' is usually ok, though some people prefer to be identified by nationality or as 'African' (and lets face it if you said you were looking for 'the African man' people would know who you meant). In the US 'black' is racist and African American is preferred. I don't like the term African American as it implies that the person sees themselves as African, but then many Americans are all hell-bent on self identifying with a nationality their family left decades if not centuries ago.

I always understood racisim as if you act differently towards someone of a different race purely because of their race

That'd be the textbook definition all right, and the one I'd go by. Of course these days people (probably white ones) are going around defining everything from 'black-hearted' to 'blackboard' as racist.

oldyouth wrote: »

I saw that in Corrie. I never heard the phrase before and can't figure out the racist context myself.

It's really only racist if you are unaware of the origin of the phrase; in westerns the good guy would wear a white hat and the baddie would wear a black hat so that they could be easily told apart on a black and white telly.

major bill · 18-07-2013 12:06PM

Think Irish humor sometimes is misinterpreted for racism,

major bill · 18-07-2013 12:09PM

kylith wrote: »

We were talking about it in work yesterday, and basically in Ireland 'Black person' is usually ok, though some people prefer to be identified by nationality or as 'African' (and lets face it if you said you were looking for 'the African man' people would know who you meant). In the US 'black' is racist and African American is preferred. I don't like the term African American as it implies that the person sees themselves as African, but then many Americans are all hell-bent on self identifying with a nationality their family left decades if not centuries ago.

That'd be the textbook definition all right, and the one I'd go by. Of course these days people (probably white ones) are going around defining everything from 'black-hearted' to 'blackboard' as racist.

It's really only racist if you are unaware of the origin of the phrase; in westerns the good guy would wear a white hat and the baddie would wear a black hat so that they could be easily told apart on a black and white telly.

Talking to an ex pat in Scotland that said the word Blackboard can't be said cos its not politically correct, Silly stuff

FTA69 · 18-07-2013 12:09PM

kylith wrote: »

In the US 'black' is racist and African American is preferred. I don't like the term African American as it implies that the person sees themselves as African, but then many Americans are all hell-bent on self identifying with a nationality their family left decades if not centuries ago.

I don't think it is. I'd say that "black" is more common parlance in the US than "African American" in everyday discourse. It is in my experience anyway. It's also a bit of a silly catch all term. If you called a Jamaican "African American" he'd be rightly p*ssed off.

kylith · 18-07-2013 12:15PM

FTA69 wrote: »

I don't think it is. I'd say that "black" is more common parlance in the US than "African American" in everyday discourse.

Maybe so, but I don't think I've heard it used on telly for a good while

It is in my experience anyway. It's also a bit of a silly catch all term. If you called a Jamaican "African American" he'd be rightly p*ssed off.

That's the problem I have with it alright. Show someone from the US a picture of Lenny Henry and they'd probably say that he was African-American, when he is neither, he's British. I don't mean that they'd consider all black people worldwide African American, but that if they didn't know who he was they would probably assume, and I try to make as few assumptions as possible about people.

sbsquarepants · 18-07-2013 12:18PM

FTA69 wrote: »

It isn't a case of "ridiculousness", rather that you can't accept the pretty blatant fact that there is a huge difference between a black person using the term as a greeting or reference and a white person using it as a derogatory and supremacist term.

Any person using it as a derogatory and supremacist term is wrong plain and simple - the colour of their skin is absolutely immaterial, or at least it should be. If descrimination on the grounds of race is wrong (which i for one believe it is) then it is wrong across the board.
You can't say something is only permitted for white people, so why can you say it's permitted only for black people - that's racism in a nutshell, however well intentioned.
So i'm with kaiser here, the word is either acceptable or it's not - end of.

Frank Lee Midere · 18-07-2013 12:19PM

In the US black used in normal conversation and on tv shows showing normal conversation even in the states. News reports would say African American as they would say Caucasian.

In normal convo that's black and white.

Davidth88 · 18-07-2013 12:29PM

I hate the term African American TBH

I worked with a South African White guy , he did some work in the US and had to fill in a form with his ethic origin , he ticked African and was told he couldn't be African because he wasn't black !!

FTA69 · 18-07-2013 12:42PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Any person using it as a derogatory and supremacist term is wrong plain and simple - the colour of their skin is absolutely immaterial, or at least it should be. If descrimination on the grounds of race is wrong (which i for one believe it is) then it is wrong across the board.

But when blacks use the word it isn't in a derogatory or supremacist manner. That's the point. It's only used by white people in that sense.

You can't say something is only permitted for white people, so why can you say it's permitted only for black people -

First of all most black people don't use the term. Second of all, white calling black a "n*gger" is racist. Black calling black a "n*gger" isn't. The situations are different. How is that so hard to comprehend?

gramar · 18-07-2013 12:47PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Years ago in Eastenders Dot Cotton went to one of the market stalls and asked for some 'nigger brown' wool. They would never get away with that now. Also the Indian residents were referred to as pakis.

Why are they called Pakis if they're from India?
If it's used to identuify someone in a non-offensive way then I don't see the problem.

People use my nationality all of the time to identify me but it's not offensive.

major bill · 18-07-2013 12:55PM

FTA69 wrote: »

sbsquarepants wrote: »

But when blacks use the word it isn't in a derogatory or supremacist manner. That's the point. It's only used by white people in that sense.

First of all most black people don't use the term. Second of all, white calling black a "n*gger" is racist. Black calling black a "n*gger" isn't. The situations are different. How is that so hard to comprehend?

If I said to a black person I knew, alright ****** in the same attitude used by Black people towards one another, it would be seeing as racist, I have no problem with Black people calling each other **** but a White person can't say it in the same context cos its seen as racist thats what I can't accept. Black comedians continuously using the term white boy or grouping white people because of their skin yet a white comedian can't dare mention or stereotype the Black male

Words are words, they don't hurt nor bother me but we are now living in a world where sensitivity is so high peoples careers and lively hoods are been destroyed over the littlest of things

sbsquarepants · 18-07-2013 01:02PM

FTA69 wrote: »

But when blacks use the word it isn't in a derogatory or supremacist manner. That's the point. It's only used by white people in that sense.

That's absolute nonsense - you can't presuppose someones intent based only on their skin colour.

FTA69 wrote: »

First of all most black people don't use the term. Second of all, white calling black a "n*gger" is racist. Black calling black a "n*gger" isn't. The situations are different. How is that so hard to comprehend?

Same as above - you're making assumptions based purely on the colour of a persons skin. That just doesn't make any sense.

Frank Lee Midere · 18-07-2013 01:05PM

major bill wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

If I said to a black person I knew, alright ****** in the same attitude used by Black people towards one another, it would be seeing as racist, I have no problem with Black people calling each other **** but a White person can't say it in the same context cos its seen as racist thats what I can't accept. Black comedians continuously using the term white boy or grouping white people because of their skin yet a white comedian can't dare mention or stereotype the Black male

Words are words, they don't hurt nor bother me but we are now living in a world where sensitivity is so high peoples careers and lively hoods are been destroyed over the littlest of things

I am far from being PC but this is nonsense. An Irish man calling a group "Paddies" is not the same as an Englishman.

And American blacks use the N word with an a at the end.

Nodin · 18-07-2013 01:10PM

Davidth88 wrote: »

With a major story line appearing in Coronation St where someone uses the phrase

' Play the White man '

and this is taken as racist.

...because it is. As is "not playing the white mans game".

FTA69 · 18-07-2013 01:10PM

Right so give me some examples when a white person calls a black person a n*gger in a non-racist sense? The word was used by white society as a form of oppression, that was the whole purpose of the word. It was a tool of white oppression and the vast, vast majority of times a white person used it was to remind blacks of their inferior social standing.

Blacks don't use the word in the same manner. And even then many black people hate the use of the word. "N*gger" in a white context is inherently racist, black people use it in a different sense. Unless of course they're being racist against themselves? :rolleyes:

sbsquarepants · 18-07-2013 01:27PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Right so give me some examples when a white person calls a black person a n*gger in a non-racist sense? The word was used by white society as a form of oppression, that was the whole purpose of the word. It was a tool of white oppression and the vast, vast majority of times a white person used it was to remind blacks of their inferior social standing.

Blacks don't use the word in the same manner. And even then many black people hate the use of the word. "N*gger" in a white context is inherently racist, black people use it in a different sense. Unless of course they're being racist against themselves? :rolleyes:

Look at it this way.
In your opinion, how black does the speaker have to be before the racism is dissapated. Do you need 2 black parents? Would 1 suffice? What if you only had 1 black grandparent? At what exact point does the level of melanin exactly counter balance the level of racism?
Cos if that point doesn't exist, then either does yours.

kylith · 18-07-2013 01:47PM

Id see black people using the N word as similar to 'I can call my brother a useless waster, but no-one outside my family can'.

FTA69 · 18-07-2013 01:50PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Look at it this way.
In your opinion, how black does the speaker have to be before the racism is dissapated. Do you need 2 black parents? Would 1 suffice? What if you only had 1 black grandparent? At what exact point does the level of melanin exactly counter balance the level of racism?
Cos if that point doesn't exist, then either does yours.

You really are overthinking this. First of all people are different, there is no concrete catch all for the "acceptability" of the term, many if not most black -people themselves have an issue with the word.

But for the millionth time, the CONTEXT is different between a white person saying it and a black person. The historical and social connotations are massively different. In essence what you and other posters are saying is that ye feel hard done by that ye're not allowed to call blacks "n*ggers" because "sure don't they say it themselves."

As another poster said, I can laugh at my Mayo friend on site all I want, it's different when an English foreman starts off with the Paddy stuff. Instead of inventing convoluted nonsense you'd be better off just acknowledging the fact that there can never be parity on this particular issue due to the contexts involved.

sbsquarepants · 18-07-2013 02:01PM

I'm not overthinking it.
You said it is racist when a white person does it, and it's not racist when a black person does - i'm simply saying that is not true, you can't assume intent based on skin colour.
I personally wouldn't call anyone it, for the simple reason that they would probably take offence. If i had closer black friends maybe that would be different. But to simply say it's a word that i'm forbidden to use because i could only ever use it as a racial slur, due solely to my skin pigmentation simply doesn't make any sense.
Ans as for the context being different - that applies to every time the conversation occurs, context is unique to the moment and the people involved. What is perfectly fine today between me and you for example, could be an insult tomorrow, the meaning is largely in the speaker, not the word itself.

crockholm · 18-07-2013 02:03PM

FTA69 wrote: »

You really are overthinking this. First of all people are different, there is no concrete catch all for the "acceptability" of the term, many if not most black -people themselves have an issue with the word.

But for the millionth time, the CONTEXT is different between a white person saying it and a black person. The historical and social connotations are massively different. In essence what you and other posters are saying is that ye feel hard done by that ye're not allowed to call blacks "n*ggers" because "sure don't they say it themselves."

As another poster said, I can laugh at my Mayo friend on site all I want, it's different when an English foreman starts off with the Paddy stuff. Instead of inventing convoluted nonsense you'd be better off just acknowledging the fact that there can never be parity on this particular issue due to the contexts involved.

Genuinely interested in this topic,and I'm aware that you cannot de facto speak for "the black community", but would the "N" word,because of it's historical and social connotations therefore be less barbed were it 1) said by a Chinese man, 2) said about a black person who was not the descendant of Slaves ?

Please don't take this as a sort of"I want to be able to say it too" spiel.

FTA69 · 18-07-2013 02:04PM

The word is the epitome of white supremacy, that's why white people can't use it. White supremacy can't be divorced from the word. In what possible context could a white person call a black person "n*gger" in a non-racist sense?

If i had closer black friends maybe that would be different.

Eh, no it wouldn't.