Why would anyone want to get married??

Geomy · 31-08-2013 09:17AM

Im just about to load up the car with my surfing gear, stop off have breakfast with a single gorgeous surfer called Jane...

Then we'll hit the waves for a few hours,meet Jackie for lunch in Kinvara.

Spin back to Ballyvaughan, meet Janette for tea, back to Lahinch for another surf, then head home to my 4 bed palace.

Have supper off out again for the evening, and the great thing is I don't drink or smoke, so can drive anywhere I like. ..

Love being a selfish bas...tard ;-)

nicegirl · 31-08-2013 09:19AM

dharma200 wrote: »

Nice girl, I don't wish to offend , but your posts read like someone who has not been in a long term committed relationship. Ofcourse people change, but the key is commitment to your family and resposibilites as a mature adult. I am not sure what you mean but ' worth it' ... The outcome of a marriage is ensured by incredibly hard work in the part of each person. It is those who believe in flighting the minute there are challenges or changes in the relationship that do not get married... Because they do not commit.... That is all fine and well until you have a child or a long term financial commitment. The worth it part is self explanatory. If you walk into marriage with a risk assessment attitude then I suspect you are right in that you should never get married.

No offence taken at all. I thank you and respect your opinion.

I have been in long term relationships, and certainly did work very hard at them. It was hard work, and me and my ex in particular tried very hard for a long time to make it work, but it didn't unfortunately. As I said in my last post, (you may have missed it, as I posted it almost the same time you posted this post) as emotionally upsetting as it is to break up when you are in a long term relationship, I can imagine it to be 100 times more difficult when you are a marriage with all the additional responsibilities to each other that a marriage legally entails. I believe marriage to be a gamble, especially today with divorce rates, cheating, boredom and all the other reasons I proclaimed above, and other posters also.

Your right though, marriage is not for me, and that's my choice in life. I would be happy living with someone for the rest of my life, loving them and all that without the ball and chain of marriage.

dharma200 · 31-08-2013 09:20AM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

The practicalities of it make perfect sense but posters coming on patronising other posters with, "You wouldn't understand as you haven't truly loved" bollocks is a little infuriating. Marriage doesn't guarantee anything. It's a bigger deal because leaving one is harder but it's very possible to stay with someone forever and love deeply without making it legally/religiously official and having a massive piss up with friends.

Totally agree.. Totally possible, but I think the question that was posed in this thread didn't actually want an answer... It could have been, why would anyone not want to get married.... Etc etc.. And ofcourse everyone in different stages in their lives feels differently... I'd say in my twenties I would have been eek what are those people doing etc etc... I still see big weddings in fancy hotels with gift lists etc as completely cringe.. However it doesn't make me ask questions about marriage as I understand the pros and cons, from different points of views, not just my own, the op was really a statement on why she does not want to get married or see the point, asking the point, but not really understanding the pint from other people because she is not in that position. The position of everyone be it age or circumstances is totally different, so to ask a question, but to on,y really relate it to ones own circumstances seems a bit premature in that people's circumstances change... I wouldn't like to think of some of the sweeping statements or generalisations I made before having a family etc now, because they would make me cringe.......

nicegirl · 31-08-2013 09:23AM

PingO_O wrote: »

Really? I think it would be quite a healthy attitude to have. I'm with nicegirl here. Sometimes relationships break down and people grow apart, working at it with all the effort in the world will probably do more harm than good. Seeing when the marriage has run its course and calling time is probably one of the hardest but healthiest things we can do for ourselves and our partners.

I think some people here have the attitude that if you end your marriage you're a quitter, that's just the vibe I get, much like people who think love alone is enough to continue a relationship, it just isn't.

Well said. An excellent point you said here above also. I agree if you tried very hard in a marriage, over along period of time, then for both the husband and wife, the healthy thing to do is to call it a day. Why be stuck in a marriage and be completely miserable? There is no sense to that, and leaving it would be the correct thing to do.

Hannibal Smith · 31-08-2013 09:27AM

nicegirl wrote: »

I appreciate and respect your opinion, and thanks for your contribution. The reasons you stated are of course why many people get married, and all that, which is understandable.

I'm the opposite though. Been stuck with the one person for the rest of your life. If children come along, you are completely stuck with that person - even if you love them.

To me, its a ball and chain for life, effectively signing your life away bound legally, which also puts me off it.

I have seen far too many marriages that are in absolute despair, and many many people cheating to see its the last thing I would do in my life. My opinion anyways.

When you're in the right relationship being stuck doesn't come into...its more a case of...there's no where else you'd rather be.

Grayson · 31-08-2013 09:28AM

dharma200 wrote: »

Zeno, there are many contractual agreements in life, bank accounts, employment contracts, they are all there for a reason, contracts are draughed for a reason, the whole point is it is a contract between two unrelated people who's life finances etc become legal bonded, for the many reasons outlined people do this. The ops question is why would anyone want to get married, and the contract part, I would say, is pretty high up when there is a myriad of responsibilities, I feel it is only those who do not yet have these responsibilities who see a contract as having no use, when these responsibilities become a reality then ofcourse, as in many many arrangements in life, a contract is almost necessary.

From a contractual point of view marriage isn't bad. Say i wanted to have children and wanted to settle down, a contarct is a nice way of spelling it out.

I know middle eastern countries don't have a great track record with this stuff, but they do have some good ideas. All marriages there are pre-negotiated contracts. Everything is spelled out. Right down to mandatory gifts for each person.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7275506.stm

By doing that they realise that although love etc may play a part, marriage is essentially two people forming a union for the sake of having a family. marriages can even have a fixed duration written in. So the duration can be "Until the child hits 18". At that point the marriage breaks up according to a pre determined agreement. Everyone knows what they get etc...

PingO_O · 31-08-2013 09:29AM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

When you're in the right relationship being stuck doesn't come into...its more a case of...there's no where else you'd rather be.

I think she knows this.

nicegirl · 31-08-2013 09:31AM

Geomy wrote: »

Im just about to load up the car with my surfing gear, stop off have breakfast with a single gorgeous surfer called Jane...

Then we'll hit the waves for a few hours,meet Jackie for lunch in Kinvara.

Spin back to Ballyvaughan, meet Janette for tea, back to Lahinch for another surf, then head home to my 4 bed palace.

Have supper off out again for the evening, and the great thing is I don't drink or smoke, so can drive anywhere I like. ..

Love being a selfish bas...tard ;-)

Your happy and enjoying your life, good for you!

Such a huge amount of money, time, energy, responsibility in marriage, and that increases when you have children. Not for me! If I meet someone and am happy, and hopefully in love and all that, and living together, that would make me very happy. I wouldn't feel the need to have a wedding ceremony that would cost a fortune, the need to get married, too much of a risk, cost etc.

iguana · 31-08-2013 09:35AM

zenno wrote: »

It's just an outdated contractual agreement in my opinion.

How is it outdated? It's an important legal contract that turns someone from a legal stranger into your closest living family. It means that your partner goes from a person who would not be allowed to know about your condition should you be incapacitated in the hospital to the person who makes any decisions that need to be made. They go from being nobody to you in the eyes of the law to the person who supersedes your parents and siblings.

That's too damn important a legal change for it to happen by default. It needs to be a decision made by and enacted both parties. And that enactment is made through marriage.

Legs.Eleven · 31-08-2013 09:35AM

dharma200 wrote: »

Totally agree.. Totally possible, but I think the question that was posed in this thread didn't actually want an answer... It could have been, why would anyone not want to get married.... Etc etc.. And ofcourse everyone in different stages in their lives feels differently... I'd say in my twenties I would have been eek what are those people doing etc etc... I still see big weddings in fancy hotels with gift lists etc as completely cringe.. However it doesn't make me ask questions about marriage as I understand the pros and cons, from different pints of views, not just my own, the op was really a statement on why she does not want to get married or see the pint, asking the pint, but not really understanding the pint from other people because she is not in that position. The position of everyone be it age or circumstances is totally different, so to ask a question, but to on,y really relate it to ones own circumstances seems a bit premature in that people's circumstances change... I wouldn't like to think of some of the sweeping statements or generalisations I made before having a family etc now, because they would make me cringe.......

She's still only giving her own personal perspective though. It's okay to question an institution like marriage but it's not okay to imply someone wouldn't understand TRUE love (*Big raising of the eyes to heaven for that one*) or is selfish (seriously? The only kind of love in existence is between a husband and wife?) or immature or is not a responsible adult with adult responsibilities. I'd say there's a lot more judgement being fired at nicegirl tbh.

We live in a society where marriage is the default, particularly for women and huge pressure is placed on us, particularly when you hit your 30s (like myself in a relationship) and I believe it's a good thing to question that tradition.

Again, the legal practicalities when it comes to children and property seem reasonable but the rest, in this day and age, isn't very convincing.

I'm in a long-term relationship and am in it for the long haul. This is the man I want to grow old with but I've no wish to get married. To be told I don't really understand love and I will run away from him the minute things get rough is unfair and hugely presumptuous. Marriage isn't for everyone and I respect other's choices but I'll still question them....I just won't go out of my way to insult them as has been done by a few posters here.

Splendour · 31-08-2013 09:36AM

nicegirl wrote: »

I'm the opposite though. Been stuck with the one person for the rest of your life. If children come along, you are completely stuck with that person - even if you love them.

To me, its a ball and chain for life, effectively signing your life away bound legally, which also puts me off it.

I have seen far too many marriages that are in absolute despair, and many many people cheating to see its the last thing I would do in my life. My opinion anyways.

All of the above can happen even if a couple don't get married so no no difference really.

myshirt wrote: »

For example, when a couple get divorced, the man has to pay his ex-wife a share of his future earnings, but the woman doesn't have to do the man's future housework?

Tell me how that is right. Disgraceful.

Don't know what country you're living in but in Ireland a man has responsibility toward his children-not his wife. My ex has to pay a small amount of maintenance for our children until they reach 18.

Legs.Eleven · 31-08-2013 09:36AM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

When you're in the right relationship being stuck doesn't come into...its more a case of...there's no where else you'd rather be.

But marriage has nothing to do with that.

nicegirl · 31-08-2013 09:49AM

iguana wrote: »

How is it outdated? It's an important legal contract that turns someone from a legal stranger into your closest living family. It means that your partner goes from a person who would not be allowed to know about your condition should you be incapacitated in the hospital to the person who makes any decisions that need to be made. They go from being nobody to you in the eyes of the law to the person who supersedes your parents and siblings.

That's too damn important a legal change for it to happen by default. It needs to be a decision made by and enacted both parties. And that enactment is made through marriage.

I agree entirely with what you are saying, and thank you for your point.

If I have a significant other, and we are not married, and I end up in hospital, critically ill, I would allow that person to make the decisions on my behalf - I believe this can be done when someone is critically ill legally, I am not certain on this one. If not, then I would hand those decisions over to my family. My other half would still be there in hospital and just as involved even though we were not married. I don't see it as being much of a big deal, as someone would be there to make decisions on my behalf. Married or not that wouldn't matter to me, just knowing they were there, and loved me would be all I would be concerned about!

I respect and appreciate your post, thanks

dharma200 · 31-08-2013 09:53AM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

She's still only giving her own personal perspective though. It's okay to question an institution like marriage but it's not okay to imply someone wouldn't understand TRUE love (*Big raising of the eyes to heaven for that one*) or is selfish (seriously? The only kind of love in existence is between a husband and wife?) or immature or is not a responsible adult with adult responsibilities. I'd say there's a lot more judgement being fired at nicegirl tbh.

We live in a society where marriage is the default, particularly for women and huge pressure is placed on us, particularly when you hit your 30s (like myself in a relationship) and I believe it's a good thing to question that tradition.

Again, the legal practicalities when it comes to children and property seem reasonable but the rest, in this day and age, isn't very convincing.

I'm in a long-term relationship and am in it for the long haul. This is the man I want to grow old with but I've no wish to get married. To be told I don't really understand love and I will run away from him the minute things get rough is unfair and hugely presumptuous. Marriage isn't for everyone and I respect other's choices but I'll still question them....I just won't go out of my way to insult them as has been done by a few posters here.

I do agree, sometimes posts can read as insulting but aren't meant that way , other times posts are just purely insulting.... I do often write a reply on threads in boards, then not post it because a lot of the time threads turn pretty nasty pretty quick, people get seriously defensive or seriously into the point they are trying to make eh.... The thing is, if a question is posed the ofcourse you are going to get answers from across the board of opinions etc. the question was way would anyone want to get married though, which I think has been fairly well answered, thenfactbthatbthe op or me or anyone else hasn't or doesn't want to get married does not take away any if the legitimate reasons for getting married... Thus a never ending circle of an opinion or life choice against some else's opinion or life choice.... We can also look towards the lgbt community and the fight they are fighting to allow them to be married... Why would anyone want toget married, well a good place to start is to ask those who are denied that right, as opposed to those who have the privelidge of choice..... X

nicegirl · 31-08-2013 09:56AM

Splendour wrote: »

All of the above can happen even if a couple don't get married so no no difference really.

Don't know what country you're living in but in Ireland a man has responsibility toward his children-not his wife. My ex has to pay a small amount of maintenance for our children until they reach 18.

With regard to the reasons I stated in my post you quoted, if you are married, and say are caught cheating, and then divorce begins. There is huge cost, the issue of the family home, possible some of your own money taken from you and split with your husband or wife, a whole lot of time, energy involved if you are married. However, if you are in a long term relationship, and someone cheats then there is none of this, as you are not legally bound to each other, and can walk away from the situation, without the time, cost and energy of divorce. Dissolving a marriage is alot more difficult I believe, than if you are just in a long term relationship. I hope I am getting my point across, some other posters are better at explaining alot of this than me!

MakeEmLaugh · 31-08-2013 09:59AM

nicegirl wrote: »

To me, its a ball and chain for life, effectively signing your life away bound legally, which also puts me off it.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about mortgages and owning your own property? The same way?

nicegirl · 31-08-2013 10:01AM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about mortgages and owning your own property? The same way?

I am looking into and hoping to buy my own apartment over the next year or so. Something I am very much looking forward to

Legs.Eleven · 31-08-2013 10:06AM

nicegirl wrote: »

With regard to the reasons I stated in my post you quoted, if you are married, and say are caught cheating, and then divorce begins. There is huge cost, the issue of the family home, possible some of your own money taken from you and split with your husband or wife, a whole lot of time, energy involved if you are married. However, if you are in a long term relationship, and someone cheats then there is none of this, as you are not legally bound to each other, and can walk away from the situation, without the time, cost and energy of divorce. Dissolving a marriage is alot more difficult I believe, than if you are just in a long term relationship. I hope I am getting my point across, some other posters are better at explaining alot of this than me!

I suppose when you enter any relationship you don't think those things will happen. Fact of the matter is any relationship is a gamble but most people, when in love, get into them presuming theirs will be different and that goes goes for those who choose to marry and those who don't.

Ghost Buster · 31-08-2013 10:07AM

nicegirl wrote: »

I never want to. Any other girls or guys agree with me? The thought of it turns my stomach!

Turns your stomach. Really.? You may need to seek help.

dharma200 · 31-08-2013 10:08AM

I am afraid you are wrong in that there are some legal obligations if you have been cohabiting for five years, or two years with children.
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15044:family-law-unmarried-cohabiting-couples-rights-and-entitlements&catid=90:life-advice&Itemid=100170

The Bill proposes to create new Law governing co-habitants allowing them to apply for various Orders including Maintenance, Property and Pension Adjustment Orders. The Bill when published will fundamentally change Law in relation to non married couples in Ireland. It will have a profound effect on both same sex and opposite sex co-habiting couples.

http://www.mcsolicitors.ie/mcsolicitors/main/Co-Habitation_Agreements.htm

Also wanted to add if you have children and are not married, and you split, it can get really messy really quickly.... Especially if you are a man who has not applied for legal guardianship....

If you have a family home the. I would presume both parties paid the mortgage wether married or not, to have joint mortgage I would presume means signing contracts from both parties. Tis leads to the same outcome as if not married, although can be very messy if the parent who wishes to remain in the house to raise children finds they have no rights to remain in the family home due to not being married.

I suppose in this way the civil partner ship thing means that same sex couples have to pretend they have the same rights as married couples, and non married couples can have the same rights without having to be married lol...

If you are cohabiting long term the. It seems there is some legal redress if everything goes bad x

iguana · 31-08-2013 10:11AM

nicegirl wrote: »

If I have a significant other, and we are not married, and I end up in hospital, critically ill, I would allow that person to make the decisions on my behalf - I believe this can be done when someone is critically ill legally, I am not certain on this one. If not, then I would hand those decisions over to my family. My other half would still be there in hospital and just as involved even though we were not married. I don't see it as being much of a big deal, as someone would be there to make decisions on my behalf. Married or not that wouldn't matter to me, just knowing they were there, and loved me would be all I would be concerned about!

Depending on your illness what you want to happen may not be legal. If you are incapacitated your partner will not even be told your condition, never mind be allowed to be with you. Maybe just knowing that in that situation they'd be out in the corridor extra heartbroken at not being allowed any nearer to you is enough for you, it's not for most people. I've been in that situation when my husband was critically ill and it was made very clear to me a that being married was the difference between getting to sit by his bedside and hold his hand in what might have been his final hours and being in the corridor outside the ICU knowing nothing. Passing up on those legal rights to someone who you consider your closest family, just because of some childish notion about wanting to prove that their your love doesn't need a piece of paper to prove it, is foolhardy. Because the simple fact is that over the course of a lifetime the odds of one or both of you becoming seriously ill are very high.

Marrying someone doesn't mean you love your partner any more than someone who isn't married. It is ridiculous to think otherwise, marriage isn't really any big proof of love. Marriage (and to a lesser extent, civil partnership) is a legal arrangement that makes you a family in the eyes of the law and that arrangement affords the couple numerous very important protections that are not otherwise available.

nicegirl · 31-08-2013 10:16AM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Turns your stomach. Really.? You may need to seek help.

darced · 31-08-2013 10:16AM

This post has been deleted.

Ghost Buster · 31-08-2013 10:17AM

nicegirl wrote: »

I'm really happy to hear you have been married for so long and are happy. Many people who get married wish, and hope and do all they can to achieve what you have, so you are a lucky lady

There are so many complications with marriages these days, the husband or the wife changing within some of the years of marriage, or many of the other reasons I have mentioned.

Its a huge issue I guess. With so very many reasons surrounding marriage, it is taking a huge chance with just one other person for the rest of your life, and so many young people are aware of all the complications and difficulties of marriages, and yes they get married, as they are happy and love each other. I just don't believe its all worth it.

Perhaps happily married people feel a tad aggrieved at some of your comments re having your stomach turned and soul sold etc..

MonstaMash · 31-08-2013 10:17AM

bizmark wrote: »

Cause you love someone if you dont understand that then i feel deeply sorry for you

I don't see why I, through the act of matrimony, need confirmation & approval from a government I have nothing but contempt for, or a church that is basically a paedophile cult that ruled this country, in the not so distant past through fear & intimidation, to confirm that I have a life long commitment to my partner...thank you very much :eek:

I do however respect the right of all others to do as their conscience/beliefs demands, without judgement & without imposing my beliefs upon them & expect to be accorded the same courtesy

CommanderC · 31-08-2013 10:20AM

ted1 wrote: »

Unmarried fathers have no rights what so ever to their kids . If you have or plan to have kids this is reason enough to have kids, if only one partner works then you benefit from tax credits. If one person has assets then its worth getting married to gain rights to these.

It's also a commitment to each other that I think partners deserve to make to each othet

Wouldn't it be better to start to work towards addressing this issue in itself, rather than just continuing with the solution of entering into a marriage. If someone needs to get married for fear of losing their rights surely that undermines marriage and all people to whom marriage is so important.

nicegirl · 31-08-2013 10:22AM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Perhaps happily married people feel a tad aggrieved at some of your comments re having your stomach turned and soul sold etc..

I do apologise if I gave that impression to anyone who is married, or getting married, certainly not my intention at all, just how I feel about it though.

Splendour · 31-08-2013 10:22AM

nicegirl wrote: »

With regard to the reasons I stated in my post you quoted, if you are married, and say are caught cheating, and then divorce begins. There is huge cost, the issue of the family home, possible some of your own money taken from you and split with your husband or wife, a whole lot of time, energy involved if you are married. However, if you are in a long term relationship, and someone cheats then there is none of this, as you are not legally bound to each other, and can walk away from the situation, without the time, cost and energy of divorce. Dissolving a marriage is alot more difficult I believe, than if you are just in a long term relationship. I hope I am getting my point across, some other posters are better at explaining alot of this than me!

As dharma has said, regardless to the fact if you're married or not,there are still implications to sort and it's not just as easy as 'walking away'. If you don't want to be stuck with someone for the rest of your life the best thing is to not have children with them because if you will always be involved with them at some level.
The house, the car, the dog-whatever, can be sorted but kids-now that's a different matter altogether...

dharma200 · 31-08-2013 10:23AM

Fathers can go for legal guardianship. Quite simple to do. However differing second names etc can be problematic, as can differing nationalities etc....

There are a lot of things that can be better legislated for etc. I would suggest any unmarried man who is expecting a child get legal guardianship sorted on the day of birth.

Once again though, it is a reason for people to get married, which answers the ops question.

Hannibal Smith · 31-08-2013 10:25AM

nicegirl wrote: »

I appreciate and respect your opinion, and thanks for your contribution. The reasons you stated are of course why many people get married, and all that, which is understandable.

I'm the opposite though. Been stuck with the one person for the rest of your life. If children come along, you are completely stuck with that person - even if you love them.

To me, its a ball and chain for life, effectively signing your life away bound legally, which also puts me off it.

I have seen far too many marriages that are in absolute despair, and many many people cheating to see its the last thing I would do in my life. My opinion anyways.

When you're in the right relationship being stuck doesn't come into...its more a case of...there's no where else you'd rather be.

Why would anyone want to get married??

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