Purchasing New Car maybe Electric

patmac · 30-09-2013 09:59AM #1

Hi I am buying new in 2014, have an 07 Suzuki Swift Petrol does about 40mpg, 185,000kms on the clock. Fuel efficiency is king and am tempted to go electric(Nissan Leaf possibly) as I travel a round trip of 100km to work each day and the cost is €70 per week in petrol.
I would like to hear from Electric Car owners to see how they are fairing with their cars or would I be better off going with a new diesel. The Clio is claiming 70mpg but I am not fond of Renault.
Budget is about €20k with trade in or scrappage if it is introduced in the next budget.
Any advice would be great.

Big Nasty · 30-09-2013 10:21AM

IBM_L

galwaytt · 30-09-2013 10:33AM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

IBM_L

Lol

:pac:

keithclancy · 30-09-2013 10:41AM

For Forks Sake · 30-09-2013 11:49AM

Kudos to whichever of ye did this one up as well

HandsomeDan · 30-09-2013 12:10PM

An electric costs a lot more than the equivalent diesel. That be the one to weigh up.

Also it would need to be charged every day. So, think smartphone, but with your car

beazee · 30-09-2013 01:12PM

Irish EV Owners group seems to be the perfect place to ask. Almost 100 members so far, majority driving EVs.

30-09-2013 06:33PM

HandsomeDan wrote: »

An electric costs a lot more than the equivalent diesel. That be the one to weigh up.

Also it would need to be charged every day. So, think smartphone, but with your car

Does it ?

You can get a 2011 Leaf from the U.K for about 13-15 K with 15-30K miles. That's pretty in line with any ordinary car. It's not so outrageously priced any more.

50 euro in electric gets you around 2400 miles and don't forget free public fast charging for now.

30-09-2013 06:49PM

patmac wrote: »

Hi I am buying new in 2014, have an 07 Suzuki Swift Petrol does about 40mpg, 185,000kms on the clock. Fuel efficiency is king and am tempted to go electric(Nissan Leaf possibly) as I travel a round trip of 100km to work each day and the cost is €70 per week in petrol.
I would like to hear from Electric Car owners to see how they are fairing with their cars or would I be better off going with a new diesel. The Clio is claiming 70mpg but I am not fond of Renault.
Budget is about €20k with trade in or scrappage if it is introduced in the next budget.
Any advice would be great.

The Leaf is a really super car to drive and you'll love the power delivery, it's amazing to experience. It's no slouch either, it gives a good kick off the line much better I hear than the toned down 2013's.

As long as you know that your winter range can be as low as 60 miles and you can charge at your destination or fast charge then you're sorted.

Summer range can be around 80 miles. The heater is hungry and the battery doesn't like the cold as the internal resistance increases with the cold preventing a full charge.

The Chevy spark EV will have a heated and cooled battery and a tested 90 mile range at 100kph no heat and no a/c.

Winter range is not known yet, as the battery is heated the heater is more inefficient than the 2013 leaf with heat pump.

If you hold out long enough the spark might cost as little as 21K and give the same 0-100 kph as a 2.0L 180 hp diesel GTD Golf for a fraction of the cost to buy and run.

Disadvantage is the new fast charge standard called ccs, it's different to the leaf and causing the ESB a major headache. There will be 0 ccs chargers for a while yet and no one knows if there will be an adapter to connect to the current CHAdeMo fast chargers.

The major advantage of ccs is the 140 kw charge capability compared to 50kw for CHAdeMo. meaning charging in future ev's in 10 mins or less.

The Leaf batter seems to be holding up pretty well, rumours are that you loose the first capacity bar around 80,000 miles meaning a 15% capacity loss. but I don't think anyone in Europe has reached that yet in their Leaf and being in a cooler climate Irish/UK leafs should hold up better.

30-09-2013 06:51PM

So what if you have to plug in your car every day, could people really be that lazy that such a simple task could bother them ?

kyote00 · 30-09-2013 07:01PM

Kinda ironic that the OP doesn't want a Renault but is ok with Nissan

The green credentials for EVs are under severe scrutiny by many well respected journals -- especially when the full supply chain is included.....
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/unclean-at-any-speed

OP, might be better off with a 2-3 year old diesel and pocket the rest for your holidays....

Scortho · 30-09-2013 07:07PM

Mad_Lad im not singleing you out or anything but lets say youve an average commute of 25 miles to and from work.
Winter range is 60 miles?

so now you have around 10 miles of juice before you kind of need to charge her up again?
What happens when you get home from work, 10 minutes later you get a call to say your mother is after taking a turn for the worse and you should come into hospital straight way?
What are you to say? Tell her to hang on a while, as I have to charge the feckin car.

Or if your child is seriously ill late at night and needs to be rushed to hospital. You live 20 minutes away from crumlin but you forgot to charge the car. Theres no ambulance available due to cut backs. WHat do you do in that situation?

In the future when they can get the car charged in the same time as it takes to fill up a car with petrol and a decent mile range that allows you to go down the country without having to worry about oh **** ive ran out of electricity, 10 miles from the nearest charging point, then I can see electric cars becoming a viable alternative.
At the moment their charge times are too long and their range too short.

30-09-2013 07:25PM

kyote00 wrote: »

The green credentials for EVs are under severe scrutiny by many well respected journals -- especially when the full supply chain is included.....
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/unclean-at-any-speed

OP, might be better off with a 2-3 year old diesel and pocket the rest for your holidays....

Who cares about the green credentials ? Sure they are emissions free some more than others depending on electricity consumption.

Electrics are pretty good to drive the Leaf a lot more then zoe. The spark more than them all.

Most people care that they save money given the same price of the equivalent ice car.

2-3 year old diesel will still cost a lot with a lot of miles and cost a lot in diesel and have much higher maintenance.

Remember 50 Euro's in leccy will get you average 2400 miles.

galwaytt · 30-09-2013 07:29PM

beazee wrote: »

Irish EV Owners group seems to be the perfect place to ask. Almost 100 members so far, majority driving EVs.

...so some closet diesel-owning EV guys amongst them, eh ? :P

Scortho wrote: »

....so now you have around 10 miles of juice before you kind of need to charge her up again?.....What are you to say? Tell her to hang on a while, as I have to charge the feckin car..

You use your other car.
Unless you live in an urban area, particularly with one public transport, just remember the mantra ...'man cannot live on bread EV transport alone' .

30-09-2013 07:29PM

Scortho wrote: »

Mad_Lad im not singleing you out or anything but lets say youve an average commute of 25 miles to and from work.
Winter range is 60 miles?

so now you have around 10 miles of juice before you kind of need to charge her up again?
What happens when you get home from work, 10 minutes later you get a call to say your mother is after taking a turn for the worse and you should come into hospital straight way?
What are you to say? Tell her to hang on a while, as I have to charge the feckin car.

Or if your child is seriously ill late at night and needs to be rushed to hospital. You live 20 minutes away from crumlin but you forgot to charge the car. Theres no ambulance available due to cut backs. WHat do you do in that situation?

In the future when they can get the car charged in the same time as it takes to fill up a car with petrol and a decent mile range that allows you to go down the country without having to worry about oh **** ive ran out of electricity, 10 miles from the nearest charging point, then I can see electric cars becoming a viable alternative.
At the moment their charge times are too long and their range too short.

I've heard this one before many many times.

You are using an unlikely scenario, possible but unlikely.

What if you call an ambulance and you're dead before it gets to you ?

What if the ambulance won't start ?

What if your child is ill and you go out to your ice car and it won't start ?

Scortho · 30-09-2013 07:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've heard this one before many many times.

You are using an unlikely scenario, possible but unlikely.

What if you call an ambulance and you're dead before it gets to you ?

What if the ambulance won't start ?

What if your child is ill and you go out to your ice car and it won't start ?

It is an unlikely scenario, but i know at that moment Id be thinking oh **** why didnt I buy a petrol car etc instead.
Yes the petrol car mightn't start but theres a much greater chance of you not having electricity in your car to go out on another journey in case of an emergency (i can put enough petrol in my car that lets me travel 20 miles in less than 2 minutes, how long would an ev take to charge).

Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of electric cars, theyre just not feasible enough in their current form.

30-09-2013 07:40PM

Scortho wrote: »

It is an unlikely scenario, but i know at that moment Id be thinking oh **** why didnt I buy a petrol car etc instead.
Yes the petrol car mightn't start but theres a much greater chance of you not having electricity in your car to go out on another journey in case of an emergency (i can put enough petrol in my car that lets me travel 20 miles in less than 2 minutes, how long would an ev take to charge).

Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of electric cars, theyre just not feasible enough in their current form.

You could likely replace 20 miles of electric in 5 mins on a fast charger.

MuppetCheck · 30-09-2013 07:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've heard this one before many many times.

You are using an unlikely scenario, possible but unlikely.

What if you call an ambulance and you're dead before it gets to you ?

What if the ambulance won't start ?

What if your child is ill and you go out to your ice car and it won't start ?

Come off it, I can name a few instances in the last month where I had to make an unexpected journey for whatever reason after work. This kind of thing does happen. The reason you dismiss it is because it's a negative point of EVs rather than admitting it's a valid limitation.

beazee · 30-09-2013 08:23PM

galwaytt wrote: »

...so some closet diesel-owning EV guys amongst them, eh ? :P

Call them bicycle owning EV enthusiasts. Myself included

lafiamma09 · 30-09-2013 09:36PM

Will be following this thread with interest, im pretty much sold on getting an SV Leaf in January, but there are a few things i want to be happy with first. Will see if this thread answers any questions i have, if not, and so i dont hijack this one ill put up a new thread

Edit: just seen there my post count has been reset to 1. ill throw up an intro later

30-09-2013 09:38PM

lafiamma09 wrote: »

Will be following this thread with interest, im pretty much sold on getting an SV Leaf in January, but there are a few things i want to be happy with first. Will see if this thread answers any questions i have, if not, and so i dont hijack this one ill put up a new thread

Well why don't you ask a few questions, after all that's what it's about.

If I were you if getting the SV then get the upgraded 6.6 kw charger.

If you're leasing which is wise if buying new then the MK II should be out in 3 years with more range.

thecomedian · 30-09-2013 09:50PM

With the distance the Op is travelling to work it wouldn't be advisable to get an EV, unless they can charge at work. Even at that they won't have much range left when they get home.

30-09-2013 09:55PM

thecomedian wrote: »

With the distance the Op is travelling to work it wouldn't be advisable to get an EV, unless they can charge at work. Even at that they won't have much range left when they get home.

Why would he need much range ? he'll be home ?

2 hrs on charge and will probably have 30 miles or so in total maybe more and if the weather is milder probably have 75 total miles setting off in the morning in summer.

30-09-2013 09:56PM

By the way OP what's your location ? there might be fast chargers somewhere near you ?

thecomedian · 30-09-2013 10:02PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why would he need much range ? he'll be home ?

2 hrs on charge and will probably have 30 miles or so in total maybe more and if the weather is milder probably have 75 total miles setting off in the morning in summer.

People go places when they get home. Loads of reasons, go training, go see friends, go to the cinema, see parents...
Please stop defending the EVs do much.
I think it's only right for the Op.

Now I'm not having a go at the EV but I don't think it will suit in this case.

30-09-2013 10:47PM

This is where the fast chargers come in and in the future they will be much faster. Even Elon Musk has said 5 min charging isn't that far off, we'll not for tesla maybe, sure, But 5 min to charge a leaf v 30 mins would do most people.

If people want more range they can buy the merc b class ev with 115 miles real range, so we're told, EPA test shouldn't be too long. It's got tesla battery and electrics.

Though I think most people would be happy with spending 24k on a leaf v what for the merc ? 38 k maybe ? Maybe more I don't know yet.

That should be available at the end of next year here maybe, the US gets it first of course.

I think the spark ev is going to be one great car. 10 min faster charging than the leaf when the new ccs chargers become available.

30-09-2013 11:06PM

The 2013 leaf with 6.6 kw charger (option) can charge from 0-100 percent in 4 hrs though the reality is that it will most likely take less than 3 hrs as nobody will come home with a drained battery. And that's for a full charge. Need a top up on way then fast charge for free, or take advantage and do most of your charging for free.

Scortho · 30-09-2013 11:10PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The 2013 leaf with 6.6 kw charger (option) can charge from 0-100 percent in 4 hrs though the reality is that it will most likely take less than 3 hrs as nobody will come home with a drained battery. And that's for a full charge. Need a top up on way then fast charge for free, or take advantage and do most of your charging for free.

The range is what 60-80 miles and it takes 3-4 hours to fully charge that?

How come earlier on you said you can recharge 20 miles in 5 mins?
Or is this in the future?

lafiamma09 · 01-10-2013 12:08AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well why don't you ask a few questions, after all that's what it's about.

If I were you if getting the SV then get the upgraded 6.6 kw charger.

If you're leasing which is wise if buying new then the MK II should be out in 3 years with more range.

In work at the moment so have to be quick. You allready answered my question as to when the mk II leaf is coming out. Two of my main concerns are:
1. Here in ireland the esb will fit a charge point at your house, this is great if you own the house but if your renting like me or in an apartment then this isnt an option. The uk supply a lead you can plug into a household socket however we cannot use the same lead over here due to esb concerns about house fires. You can buy a compatible lead from nissan but its a €900 extra... Can you get a lead, that we can use here, cheaper? (Much!) otherwise you are confined to having to use public charge points, and these are often blocked by ICE cars which could leave a person fairly stuck.. Where i (currently but soon to change) work there is a charge point 3 min walk away, and once a week i make a 220 km round trip but there are charge points along the way: M4 Applegreen. I dont want to be drip feeding the car the whole time.

2. The lease query... As i understand it, in the uk the ev's are sold substantially cheaper. The initial cost is offset through the owner renting the batterys with a monthly cost. These batteries as it stand will not be replaced your just paying for maintenance. In ireland you pay the higher up front cost but no monthly rental. What happens the batteries? Will they still be maintained? When / if they fail as i understand it it will cost depending on who you talk to anywhere in the region of €5k-€8k. This is a massive cost to be outlaying every say 10 years or so? ( Pure stab in the dark with that figure as i cannot get a right answer anywhere on the lifetime of the batteries). Or am i totally wrong, do we pay (for example the sv) €24k + rental on top?

Ive emailed nissan twice in the last few weeks and got no reply. Just been researching and reading blogs / forum threads to get as much info as possible. My current petrol costs for the month would pretty much pay for the car. Im willing to sacrifice range and having to plan my journeys a little in order to have a car that effectively pays for itself, but i dont want to jump into a big black hole without knowing the facts and whats in store for me.

Apologies to the op, dont want to hijack your thread

Thanks for the replies

commited · 01-10-2013 01:27AM

patmac wrote: »

Hi I am buying new in 2014, have an 07 Suzuki Swift Petrol does about 40mpg, 185,000kms on the clock. Fuel efficiency is king and am tempted to go electric(Nissan Leaf possibly) as I travel a round trip of 100km to work each day and the cost is €70 per week in petrol.
I would like to hear from Electric Car owners to see how they are fairing with their cars or would I be better off going with a new diesel. The Clio is claiming 70mpg but I am not fond of Renault.
Budget is about €20k with trade in or scrappage if it is introduced in the next budget.
Any advice would be great.

Fuel efficiency is important, but often depreciation is key. Spending €20k to save some of €3500/year is a bit of a bizarre plan.

From the above, you do about 30000km/year, with fuel costs of approximate €3500. If you were to manage to get 70mpg * <100kg CO2, that would bring your costs down to €2000/year and tax saving of €180/year. If you're spending €16k (assuming your car is worth 4k), then that's a payback period of 9 1/2 years.

Assuming you bought a 2011 Nissan Leaf for 11k (15k-4k), with electricity cost of 500/year (generous) and tax saving of 240/year, it would still take 3.5 years before you broke even and at that stage it would be out of warranty, have similar km's to your swift now and potentially require replacement batteries in the coming years.

Now of course, no car will last forever without a small bit of maintenance but any replacement car will also need maintenance and with the km's/year that you do, depreciation is heavy. Unless you're particularly hard on cars, the Swift has the potential to do 300,000kms easily so my advice would be to stick with what you have until something major goes wrong if your goal is to save money.

An investment with a good rate of return would be an LPG conversion if you have any stations near you, should save you about €20/week on fuel in your existing car.

jimmycrackcorm · 01-10-2013 01:49AM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

IBM_L

Funny that from a guy advertising part worn tyres for €25

Big Nasty · 01-10-2013 06:08AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Funny that from a guy advertising part worn tyres for €25

You see me jumping all over every tyre thread?

01-10-2013 08:15AM

Scortho wrote: »

The range is what 60-80 miles and it takes 3-4 hours to fully charge that?

How come earlier on you said you can recharge 20 miles in 5 mins?
Or is this in the future?

You can fast charge in absolute 0%-80% in 30 mins, a 5 to ok maybe 10 min fast charge would most likely get you 20 miles, it takes 30 mins for an 0-80% charge, so 5 mins would be a good average and fast charging warms up the battery on a cold winters day too meaning more range on a warmer battery.

The Spark ev has knocked 10 mins off that already, but there will be no ccs chargers for a while yet and even when they become available it will take time to build up to a level the CHAdeMo chargers are at.

The current MK I Leaf only has a 3kw charger for home charging so the first Gen will charge 0-100 in 8 hours, unfortunately, that's why I say with the Gen 1.5 order a 6.6kw charger if anyone buys new.

The Spark ev will only have a 3kw charger too but the fast charge advantage shouldn't be ignored. (it's possible Spark will have a faster on-board charger at the time of release)

Zoe will charge as fast as your house supply, that being the only limiting factor, 3 phase house supply and you can charge in 30 mins.

Zoe will also charge in under an hour to 100% form 99% of all the ESB public chargers at 22 kw. Even though there are 0 44kw 3 phase AC chargers for Zoe yet, it does have that advantage of only an hour to charge, plug in shopping if you can and it's fully charged when you come out, these chargers are in most towns, Carlow alone has 3 now, or 3 x 2 outlets.

The tech is evolving fast, I believe faster charging is more important than sheer range, ok a comfortable 150 miles at 120 kph would be nice, but 500 miles is too much to charge in any meaningful time.

BMW promise 200 miles range in 2017. meanwhile Tesla are laughing their heads off, though in fairness the model S is a gigantic car and can naturally fit a big battery. But they have the expertise that the Euro car makers don't have in battery pack building, there is no reason BMW couldn't have made a 300 mile car, it's because they don't currently know how with current battery tech.

01-10-2013 08:47AM

lafiamma09 wrote: »

1. Here in ireland the esb will fit a charge point at your house, this is great if you own the house but if your renting like me or in an apartment then this isnt an option. The uk supply a lead you can plug into a household socket however we cannot use the same lead over here due to esb concerns about house fires. You can buy a compatible lead from nissan but its a €900 extra... Can you get a lead, that we can use here, cheaper? (Much!) otherwise you are confined to having to use public charge points, and these are often blocked by ICE cars which could leave a person fairly stuck.. Where i (currently but soon to change) work there is a charge point 3 min walk away, and once a week i make a 220 km round trip but there are charge points along the way: M4 Applegreen. I dont want to be drip feeding the car the whole time.

Yes currently for renting this poses a problem. The only thing you can do is public charge on the normal 22kw ac chargers, buy the leaf with 6.6kw charger and public charge for free in 3-4 hrs max depending on your charge level. Or fast charge, I presume you live in Dublin so there are a few scattered around. If you're getting work charging then that solves a lot of your charging woes. And you can have the advantage of a fully heated or cooled cabin when you get in !

There is no easy solution to work charging though, this won't change without EU directive, our Government wouldn't have the brains to think of a solution like that. As I said before I would pay a rental fee for the public chargers as I don't expect them to be free nor the upkeep, this way the ESB own the chargers and not the company and you get billed on your electric bill and their is no winging by companies.

However, there needs to be a bit of cop on and only install chargers as needed and only allow people to charge that are registered that absolutely need the (company) chargers to save on installing thousands of unnecessary chargers. The public chargers obviously anyone can charge at. But it would address one issue for apartment owners/renters and home owners that can't charge at home.

The other thing is as batteries become better and charging gets faster in the future it could make a lot of public chargers obsolete.

Leaf II will have an induction charging option also which would allow apartment owners to charge where otherwise pluging in isn't practicle, though you'll still have the problem of (what do I do with the charger when I move) This is why there needs to be a rental option for those who can't own chargers.

But perhaps have a chat with the ESB and see if they can make a deal that they can remove your old charger and install it in your new house, though this won't work if the landlord or management companies won't allow it. Again have a chat with the relevant people.

To answer your question about the portable charger or (e.v.s.e) you can get one in Ireland and I'll see if I can dig up the name of the company, or if someone else can ? it will charge much slower though and you need a proper socket in the location you wan't to charge, a proper extension lead is do-able provided it's fully extended which can cause it's own problems if people are walking around.

lafiamma09 wrote: »

2. The lease query... As i understand it, in the uk the ev's are sold substantially cheaper. The initial cost is offset through the owner renting the batterys with a monthly cost. These batteries as it stand will not be replaced your just paying for maintenance. In ireland you pay the higher up front cost but no monthly rental. What happens the batteries? Will they still be maintained? When / if they fail as i understand it it will cost depending on who you talk to anywhere in the region of €5k-€8k. This is a massive cost to be outlaying every say 10 years or so? ( Pure stab in the dark with that figure as i cannot get a right answer anywhere on the lifetime of the batteries). Or am i totally wrong, do we pay (for example the sv) €24k + rental on top?

You're correct there is no battery rental option for Ireland, it should have been an option as why not allow the person decide ? However if you are a higher mileage driver and if you add up the rental charges per month over 3-5 years you'll find that if you do need to replace the battery you'll have paid for it regardless.

Nissan will only repair modules where Renault have said that their rental program means they will replace the whole pack once it reaches 75%. Though make sure this is in black and white. So if the battery worries you then the Zoe might be the better option, but again you'll have paid for the new battery anyway and if you sell the car, there goes your money. So I can only see the Renault battery rental good if you keep your car for 10 years, or for 2nd hand buyers. But not for new buyers.

So if you buy new on say a PCP plan, you dish up a deposit, say 8-9 grand. Pay x amount for 3 years (usually much lower monthly payments than a personal loan) or whatever then either pay it off and keep the car or use the Guaranteed future value they give you at the start to pay off the car, you then use any remaining value as a deposit for a new Leaf at the end of the lease and you don't worry about the battery.

lafiamma09 wrote: »

Ive emailed nissan twice in the last few weeks and got no reply. Just been researching and reading blogs / forum threads to get as much info as possible. My current petrol costs for the month would pretty much pay for the car. Im willing to sacrifice range and having to plan my journeys a little in order to have a car that effectively pays for itself, but i dont want to jump into a big black hole without knowing the facts and whats in store for me.

Nissan themselves don't really know much about the car, When I test drove it in December they didn't even know the MK 1.5 was coming this summer or that it would have a more efficient heat pump heater and a faster charging option etc.

They are only interested in sales and in fairness not many dealers know the technical ins and outs of any car they sell.

[/QUOTE]

September1 · 01-10-2013 08:59AM

100 km can require compromises on most adverse weather, obviously less so than old LEAFs. Can you charge at destination?

patmac · 01-10-2013 09:48AM

Deleted User wrote: »

By the way OP what's your location ? there might be fast chargers somewhere near you ?

Ballinasloe to Clara Co Offaly, would have free electricity at work as we generate our own, but how would I charge the car would the ESB install a point at work and at home? I am slowly going off the idea, I read through the other thread and I am thinking about the charge issue, we fly out of Dublin Airport a couple of times a year how would that work travelling 160kms, we would could use the second car (wife's 99 starlet), I suppose . The range is too short me thinks, I would be interested in a Hybrid maybe.

September1 · 01-10-2013 10:14AM

Certainly there is no issue going on Ballinasloe to Dublin Airport, that is well within LEAF capabilities - I did it countless times. I think ESB would only install one point, but if you live near charging point in Ballinasloe or work near one in Clara then you might be good. Having said that, you do not need destination charging if you are ok with short stop in Athlone during colder days. That is basing on my 1gen LEAF which has much much worse heating than yours would have.

Idbatterim · 01-10-2013 11:19AM

you could probably have the below imported and vrt for 20k...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309309025103/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-age/up_to_2_years_old/fuel-type/diesel/model/5_series/make/bmw/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/bt39jp?logcode=p

01-10-2013 11:21AM

patmac wrote: »

Ballinasloe to Clara Co Offaly, would have free electricity at work as we generate our own, but how would I charge the car would the ESB install a point at work and at home? I am slowly going off the idea, I read through the other thread and I am thinking about the charge issue, we fly out of Dublin Airport a couple of times a year how would that work travelling 160kms, we would could use the second car (wife's 99 starlet), I suppose . The range is too short me thinks, I would be interested in a Hybrid maybe.

If you have a 2nd car then you can use that for the days that leccy driving is not possible.

I think it's possible to fast charge along route, maybe twice. maybe 20 mins each time.

I don't have the data yet as to how much the heat pump saves range over the MK I.

You can wait for the BMW I3, it should have more range and there is the option of range extender though the range extender option will mean VRT will be charged adding greatly to the cost of the car.

The other car then at the and of 2014 or so would be the Mercedes B class electric. It will certainly have more range than the Leaf at a premium, said to be 115 miles real range, no data yet.

The question is do you need to pay the premium for the few trips a year or can fast charging meet 98% of your needs ? Take the starlet ?

A Prius is an option and you could convert to LPG, however the Leaf is a far better car to drive, The Prius is not bad by any means but when you experience instant throttle response and all that torque i don't think you would go back.

Regarding charging, you would have to get a contractor to install the charger at work or just use the portable evse and use an extension lead fully extended and rated for the current of course. That's the cheapest option.

Do you say you have a 100 km round trip ? if you can do that then there would be no problem, I do think 100kms in the MK 1.% would leave you with more range at the end of the day, however, it's always better to keep it topped up so you can have more range at home should you need it.

If I were you I'd rent a Leaf for a weekend to see how you get on. Maybe get a loan of a portable evse from this company.

http://www.jtmpower.ie/

I'm sure they did their own portable evse, I think it was rated at something like 1800 watts, so it would charge a lot slower, maybe 10-12 hrs. So if you get home at 6 it would be charged by 6am, this is only using the portable evse. It's ideal for work charging leaching off a spare socket.

01-10-2013 11:25AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

you could probably have the below imported and vrt for 20k...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309309025103/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-age/up_to_2_years_old/fuel-type/diesel/model/5_series/make/bmw/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/bt39jp?logcode=p

That's the 520 those are known to wreck engines by the timing chain breaking, it's certainly a car I would avoid, it's rampant.

I'd imagine it's hard to find a bmw not clocked these days too.

patmac · 01-10-2013 12:42PM

Non the wiser now! In winter what speed would I need to be going at to get the 100 km range wouldn't be one for travelling at 80 km/h on the motorway.
According to SEAI's website these are the top 10 fuel efficient cars
http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Getting_Around/HCIYC/Top10

beazee · 01-10-2013 12:53PM

patmac wrote: »

In winter what speed would I need to be going at to get the 100 km range

It's not only about speed. It's the temperature, wind speed and direction, no of passengers and amount of cargo, whether the road is hilly or not. I'd imagine 95 - 105 kph leaves you on the safe side.

01-10-2013 12:59PM

patmac wrote: »

Non the wiser now! In winter what speed would I need to be going at to get the 100 km range wouldn't be one for travelling at 80 km/h on the motorway.
According to SEAI's website these are the top 10 fuel efficient cars
http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Getting_Around/HCIYC/Top10

Those consumption figures are the manufacturer figures based on the farcical NEDC test. An in reality no one gets anywhere near those figures.

I get 60-64 mpg in the MK II Prius and that's genuine per tank with me driving. It does take a bit to learn.

But I think from going by owner reviews, the speeds will be 100kph to get that 60 miles. As I said you're best off to rent it for a weekend and see how you get on and use the battery bars and not the range estimator or guess-O-meter as it's called in the Leaf world.

September1 might give you a bitter figure based on our climate ?

Failing that why not get a cheap Prius for 5k with 100k miles on the clock and convert to gas and use the savings to put off a large deposit for an ev in a few years ?

01-10-2013 01:03PM

beazee wrote: »

It's not only about speed. It's the temperature, wind speed and direction, no of passengers and amount of cargo, whether the road is hilly or not. I'd imagine 95 - 105 kph leaves you on the safe side.

Speed will have a large impact, for instance travel at 80 kph on back roads and get maybe 70-100 miles winter summer V 100kph 60-80 miles etc.

Charge in between and this is not as much of an issue.

Again, the 2013 MK 1.5 has a much more efficient heater and so the range won't be as low as the MK I, but I can't give you any accurate data yet as that will only start to come in when the weather gets colder.

Bluefoam · 01-10-2013 01:08PM

Get yourself an Alfa Mito Quadrifiglio Verde, it has real world fuel consumption of 36+mpg & has the added bonus that you will soil yourself every time you look at it...

Wossack · 01-10-2013 01:10PM

cute car

01-10-2013 01:11PM

Nice cars alright and great engine options, huge price though considering it will depreciate like a stone.

Bluefoam · 01-10-2013 01:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nice cars alright and great engine options, huge price though considering it will depreciate like a stone.

Actually, the residuals are quite high... Better than a Golf: Source

01-10-2013 01:27PM

Bluefoam wrote: »

Actually, the residuals are quite high... Better than a Golf: Source

What about Irish sources ?

I'd rather have a Golf though, I just prefer VAG interiors. Alfa's tend to date a lot quicker, the Golf for instance doesn't change much, probably one of it's advantages.

Bluefoam · 01-10-2013 01:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What about Irish sources ?

I'd rather have a Golf though, I just prefer VAG interiors. Alfa's tend to date a lot quicker, the Golf for instance doesn't change much, probably one of it's advantages.

Off topic...

01-10-2013 01:42PM

Bluefoam wrote: »

Off topic...

It wasn't when you brought it up ! :P

Purchasing New Car maybe Electric

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