20% protein ration for heifers

Sam Kade wrote: »

I saw an ad on the journal today for a 20% p nut for heifer weanlings with lower weights to get them up to target. I know they need protein to grow but is there any advantage in the 20% protein ration?

I woudn't believe the time of day from that company , not alone take advise from their nutritionist

bbam wrote: »

What form of calcium do you feed?
And how much per kg body weight ?
Thanks

Sam Kade wrote: »

Cubical lime does the trick someone might know the amount as I saw it on here before.

Sam is right cubicle lime is the best source of calcium 20 grams/100kgLW I am a big fan of it also minerals a good quality beef mineral should do 20 grams/100kgsLW again. across the top of the silage allow for any minerals in any ration you give. 3% is general so that30 grams/kg. If you feed calcium you need to feed minerals as it leeches them out of the body.

jomoloney wrote: »

I woudn't believe the time of day from that company , not alone take advise from their nutritionist

Funny that I don't rate any of Arrabawn/doc nuts bar 2 one been that 20% heifer reader and second been suckler mate.protein is absolutely critical for young dairy stock in particular .they need good grass,high dmd silage and high protein ration even at only 1 to 2 kg per day.you need them to grow a frame when young and not lay down layers of pudgy fat which low protein poor quality ration will do.its often commented to me that you've a cracking bunch of heifers but are you not worried that there a but thin even though they are bang on ,big frame and a adequate level if fat cover..
As for the nutritionist if its the guy I'm thinking of he is really good and knows his stuff extremely well but I think he just has a budget and ingrident list to work with which is limited.that breeder max nut anyone I know that used it last year has nothing only good things to say about it.

bbam wrote: »

thanks lads... going to give this a go..
Last winter we fed powdered minerals on the silage and thought stock looked great, gained well and kept healthy.. Will add the lime this year and see how it goes.

Does the same advice hold for suckler weanlings as for HO weanlings. We would be trying to get them gaining the .6/.7 but without putting on too much condition. More about frame than weight. It's also more about grammes of protein than % also quality. We used to feed .5 kg of soya with 1-1.5 kgs wheat, .5-1kg of straw and silage to appetite after that(75+ DMD). They could do the weight gain without the soya but wouldn't put on frame and just start laying down fat.

towzer2010 wrote: »

Have a look at the powdered minerals ingredients because the one I feed has calcium in it already. I am open to correction but my vet told me it contained all I needed but I don't know for sure. Here is the list of ingredients.

Does anyone think there is something important missing?

Vitamins?

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Thinking of purchasing an IBC of this stuff this year, to feed to heifers, instead of concentrates.http://www.premiermolasses.ie/images/stories/Nutrithrive_spec_DM.pdf

Quite a good product. however above 20% of total DM diet can cause scour, Is over priced this year I think. Soya is the best source of protein as it is highly digestible( we should look at soluble protein not crude). A vet is not a nutritionist yes what is in the bag may be adequate but will it drive cattle to there max potential. Buying a special bag at 300/ton is crazy. You have to balance the total diet. Test your silage see how it tests and then balance your protein 70+DMD silage with right minerals. lime and protein will give over 0.5kgs/day and you will grow frame as well I feed Friesian stores bullock this in the shed with a kilo of my finishing ration no soya and boy do they grow. They go to grass big hungry stores after gaining 50-60kgs in the shed and after going through 6 weeks silage only for compensatory growth at grass.

Robson99 wrote: »

What minerals do you use Pudsey?

Last year bought from dairy gold U think it was Superchoice was the name on the bag however have also bough from Liffy Mills. Liffy Mils are always very compeditive for bag minerals. I just but a general purpose beef mineral

Any thoughts on just feeding rolled barley say 3 kg per day with good silage to 500 kg good quality red lim bullocks to get them over the winter indoors

Ya might just do that how much soya to the 3 kgs barley ?

Sam Kade wrote: »

For 15% protein you would feed 2.57kg barley and .43kg soya
or 30 parts barley and 5 parts soya

That is just to balance the ration part of the diet we should be balancing the total diet

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's true Pudsey. How would he work it out sample silage and figure it out with starting weight and desired weight gain?

If silage is 12% protein you then decide the desired total diet protein. If total diet is 15% protein. In general cattle eat 2% of body weight. If animals are 300kgs LW then they require 6Kg/day DM . Say you decide your silage is goo enough or you want to keep costs down so you want to feed minimum ration Then using Soya is the easiest option it is 46%P I think.

46/6=7.66.

Now you need approx. 4 units of protein 4/7.66 = 0.53.

To prove 46/0.53 = 24.4 units of P

Now as this will replace 0,5kgs silage total intake will be

5.5X12 + 24.5 = 90.5?6+15% diet.

It is not exactly right as the soya is only 85%DM approx. and storish cattle may compensate by eating extra. However it will not be way out either. On goodish silage 65dmd weanlings should do 0.4+kgs on good silage they should do 0.5kgs.

It a pretty raw method but I find that it will get you near the total diet.

Another method if short of silage and you want to feed 3KGs of ration if cattle are 300kgs then at85%DM a ration will provide 2.5Kgs og diet so ration would idealy need to be about 19%p to balance

18.5X2.5 +(12X 3.5) =89.5 units of P so again total diet is 15%

You just need to know the P figures of your feedstuffs.

Robson99 wrote: »

Just starting do figures on best value in rations for the coming winter. Have previously used Hi Maize nut or ration with approx 30% maize for finishing heifers. Was considering using just rolled barley and soya this year. What are yeer experiences on this? Would be feeding approx 10kgs/day + ad lib silage & straw +minerals. 90 day finishing period

Would the following be correct
10 kgs barley + 1kg soya = 13.5% protien


For weanlings over the winter is the following correct and would it be adequate along with minerals and ad lib silage if fed at 2.5kg/day
10 kgs barley + 2kg soya = 16% protien

On the first mix 10kgs barley= 105 unitsP while soya=48 total is 153/11= 13.9.P soya is a very good quality source of P so you may only need 13% as opposed to using rapeseed so you sould cut back on soya 0.75kgs soya would give a 13.1P ration.

The second is equivlent to nearly 17%p I think that barley is 10.5%P so that is the figure I am working off. 1.75kgs soya to 10 barley is about 16P.

Make sure cattle are getting required minerals finishing heifers about 100grams/head and weanlings 20grams/100kgs

Robson99 wrote: »

Thanks for the above Pudsey. I am still undecided whether to include some maize into it for the finishing heifers. Always find it good for getting cover on them. The downside is its approx € 60/ton dearer than barley. Maybe will just introduce the maize for the last 30 days

At taht price difference I would not bother I would just increase feeding by a kg.

1chippy wrote: »

Ive a pen of light heifers, a few are late calves and a few i picked up to make up a pen. they are around 250-260 mark. i was hoping to move them on in march of next year. whats the best mix to get the most out of them. they are on 1.5kg of a 15% ration and ad lib 74%dm silage.

If the silage is that good I would forget about nuts balance it with 0.6 kgs of soya bean meal ( presuming silage is about13%P) I would not increase it as they grow, you would also have to feed about 50grams/head/day of a general purpose beef mineral and I would also feed 50grams of limestone flour( feed quality cubicle Lime).

You sould only need nuts if you wanted to reduce amount of silage they eat.

1chippy wrote: »

i have the mineral blocks from mayo healthcare with them and they are getting a small shake of seaweed aswell. would this cover the necessary minerals? what would be a realistic weight gain with these? would i be over optimistic to say i could have them out at 320-340 kilo.

What price and weight are these mineral blocks as a matter of interest. I would imagine with that quality silage 0.5kgs/day would be minimum if fed as I said. Approx 140 days to St Patricks day so 70kgs+ gain. So that should get you there. Pricing bale silage at 23/bale and a dry matter of 25% bales weighing 750kgs. A bale would provide 37 days feeding per heifer so 62c/day for silage, 30c/day for soya and 8c/day for minerals lime and that shagging weed it will cost 1 euro/day to overwinter. It will climb a bit as they get heavier but should average at less than 1.1euro/day about 155 euro to next march.

Will you make a profit if they sell at 2.6/kg

1chippy wrote: »

e14.50 per block, just got them this evening. Im hoping they will pay anyways. between bought and whats there they would be valued at an average of 580 a piece. if i can get 2.60 at 320 kg thats e832 minus the cost of e155 it will leave 97, thats not allowing for dosing,vet (hopefully not) and all the other little hidden costs. there are very few weanling heifers making 2.60 around here at the moment. the arse just start falling out of them hard the last week and a half. everyone wants them over 400kg round here at the moment.
Have you any better suggestions on what you might do. ive a batch of bulls and two batches of cows and a batch of bullocks so i dont really want another group running. i'll hopefully be cutting down to 2 batches after next year, it should make things a little easier.

14.60/block sounds expensive presume that they are 10 or 12kg blocks. Bagged Mins cost about 16.50 in Dairygold am told it is a good blend. Tight business what you are doing. Might have been better to offload you own sometimes it is better to take a hit now. My costs may be a bit out had an discussion with a lad lately and he taught that my costing for bale silage was high