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Retiring. Building a house. Is it possible

  • 06-11-2013 03:02PM
    #1
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭


    Me and my wife will be returning home to Ireland sometime after Christmas and have plans to build a home for us or our final years. We would only be looking to build a 2bed bungalow, just enough rooms for us and for when we have one of the grandkids staying over. The house would only be 13meters by 7, not to big for what weve seen get built in Ireland when home visiting.

    First of all, we had made plans with our 3 sons to build this house ourselves but have just been informed that this wont be possible after December this year. You see, I have worked in construction since the early 60s with my sons doing same same since they left school in the late 80s early 90s. We have planned to build this next summer(considering we got planning) and throw the house up in 4 months. Between the 4 of us we are capable of doing most of the work apart from any electric installation.

    We have a budget of £65k (excluding the site and fees) and was hoping this would complete the house. This house would have 2 beds (1 with ensuite), 1 living/dining room, kitchen and a medium sized bathroom 2.4mx3m. We were also wanting a sun room but if this isn't possible with our budget, we could live without it.

    When it comes to buying kitchens/bathrooms, we will buy ex-displayed kitchen/bathroom to keep the costs down.

    Now that iv'e have been informed this isn't possible for us to build this house with our own workmanship. Is there anyway around this. Im not asking anyway around it illegally, more like is it possible to have a registered builder/engineer look after the whole build and give us the proper paper work, so were doing everything to the book.

    Is there anywhere online that I can read up on the new regs coming into force on jan so I can see what im up against.

    Thanks
    unhappy retiree:mad:


«1

Comments

  • #2
    LennyandMo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 ✭LennyandMo


    Don't see why you wont be able to do this yourself aslong as you build it the current regulations. Anybody can build a house providing they cad do it to standard


  • #3
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    LennyandMo wrote: »
    Don't see why you wont be able to do this yourself aslong as you build it the current regulations. Anybody can build a house providing they cad do it to standard


    A few cousins informed me that this isn't possible from 2014. Don't know the ins and outs of it yet but they are adamant this isn't possible.


  • #4
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    You should probably have a read through this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056921361


  • #5
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    tonkey wrote: »
    A few cousins informed me that this isn't possible from 2014. Don't know the ins and outs of it yet but they are adamant this isn't possible.

    the builder is asked to sign a legal certificate before works which declares that his the principle / director of a building company.

    Who would the building company be in your case?


  • #6
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    You should probably have a read through this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056921361



    that thread has just confused me :confused:


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  • #7
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the builder is asked to sign a legal certificate before works which declares that his the principle / director of a building company.

    Who would the building company be in your case?

    The building company, as of now, i dont know. What i had planned was for me and my sons to build this house ourselves with hiring an engineer to pass all our works so we can get the certs to comply with the regs. Now what im getting is that all i need to do is hire a builder aswell just to cert the works so they comply with the new 2014 regs. Before i started this thread, i was told that i would need to hire a builder and he has to use his own men for the job rather than us working on it. TBH, im still clueless on whats to be done.


  • #8
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    One thing i failed to mention is that we were thinking of building a timberframe home with an outer skin of block. The reason behind this was for speed and a warmer home. The timber frame would be filled with rockwool or sheeps wool between the studs, then an air tight breathable membrane sealing the house. After this, 4 inch xtratherm plasterboard screwwed onto the studs. I dont know what the building regs are in ireland but in the UK, houses are built this way. Infact, i have worked on jobs where its just the sheepswool between the studs,breathable membrane then just plasterboard. I was hoping for more insulation to best keep the heat in as best i can. As for the heating system, maybe a wood burning stove to heat x amount of rads for a house of this size.


  • #9
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    tonkey wrote: »
    The building company, as of now, i dont know. What i had planned was for me and my sons to build this house ourselves with hiring an engineer to pass all our works so we can get the certs to comply with the regs. Now what im getting is that all i need to do is hire a builder aswell just to cert the works so they comply with the new 2014 regs. Before i started this thread, i was told that i would need to hire a builder and he has to use his own men for the job rather than us working on it. TBH, im still clueless on whats to be done.

    Thats because these regulations are not yet enacted.
    There is no direction from CIF or HOMEBOND on this matter.

    All we have to work with is the BCA amendment act.

    Ask yourself, why would an owner of a building company agree to sign a certificate stating
    "2. I confirm that I have been commissioned by the building owner to undertake the works described above and that I am competent to undertake the works concerned. I further undertake to ensure that any persons employed or engaged by me to undertake any of the works involved will be competent to undertake such works.
    3. I undertake to construct the building works in accordance with the plans, specifications, calculations, ancillary certificates and particulars as listed in the schedule to the 7 Day Notice to which this undertaking refers and certified under the Form of Certificate of Compliance (Design) or as subsequently certified and submitted to the Building Control Authority and such other documents relevant to compliance with the requirements of the Second Schedule to the Building Regulations as shall be retained by me as outlined in the Code of Practice for Inspecting and Certifying Building Works.
    4. Having regard to the Code of Practice for Inspecting and Certifying Building Works or equivalent, I further undertake to cooperate with the inspections set out in the inspection plan prepared by the Assigned Certifier and to take all reasonable steps so as to ensure that I shall certify that the works or building is in compliance with the requirements of the Second Schedule to the Building Regulations insofar as they apply to the building works concerned


  • #10
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Thats because these regulations are not yet enacted.
    There is no direction from CIF or HOMEBOND on this matter.

    All we have to work with is the BCA amendment act.

    Ask yourself, why would an owner of a building company agree to sign a certificate stating

    Just scrolled through your link. So basically your saying above, it'll be difficult to find a builder that will put their name to my build if i do the work myself.


  • #11
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    tonkey wrote: »
    Just scrolled through your link. So basically your saying above, it'll be difficult to find a builder that will put their name to my build if i do the work myself.

    Probably...and, possibly equally difficult to get an assigned certifier too. Not impossible but certainly more difficult.


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  • #12
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    According to the homebond course I'm on, self build is pretty much dead in the water with the new building control regulations and act.


  • #13
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    ...in addition, new Health & Safety regulations to consider too! http://gallery.mailchimp.com/956021ef7d6fca71b412254ca/files/Homeowner_guide.pdf


  • #14
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    ...in addition, new Health & Safety regulations to consider too! http://gallery.mailchimp.com/956021ef7d6fca71b412254ca/files/Homeowner_guide.pdf


    Going by this link, i would have to employ someone to supervise that the site and work complies with health and safety regs. Would this person be on site daily and if so, what sort of fees would it add to the total build.


  • #15
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    kceire wrote: »
    According to the homebond course I'm on, self build is pretty much dead in the water with the new building control regulations and act.


    Is that because of these new regs or because theres no money left in ireland


  • #16
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    Starting to think now would be just be best to look for a house to buy here in the uk rather than moving home. seems so much red tape now for one to build a home. I had the chance to move home and build a house in 2002, wishing now that i had took that chance because back then, everything was so simple.


  • #17
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    tonkey wrote: »
    Starting to think now would be just be best to look for a house to buy here in the uk rather than moving home. seems so much red tape now for one to build a home. I had the chance to move home and build a house in 2002, wishing now that i had took that chance because back then, everything was so simple.

    If you think building is full of red tape, wait till you see what's involved in the 'planning' process.

    The only thing i would say on the matter is that there's no clear direction yet as to what will happen. Nobody has said that, like in your case, it could / couldnt be possible to set up a company for the duration of the build yourself.

    But anyway, yes Ireland has become an extremely bureaucratic state. the cynic in me would claim thats because public servants want to create more work for themselves to stay in jobs.....


  • #18
    prewtna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭prewtna


    It still will be (relatively) simple.

    Employ a professional to design, plan, tender, supervise and certify the project. Employ a builder to build the thing. It means building will be more expensive - plain and simple.

    As far as i can see the new legislation is trying to get rid of the black market of lads doing 'nixers' and make sure everyone is paying their taxes on all work done in the country - proper order really, as lads with legitimate businesses trying their best cannot compete with the black market.

    Probably the building control amendment regulations / health and safety aspect, was just a way of Revenue maximizing their income as well as the government being able to say - 'look we have reacted to Priory Hall and the evil building industry and evil immoral building professionals will never shaft Joe soap again'.

    It would be better if they were at least honest with us, but we can read between the lines. Rant over. Day over!


  • #19
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    If you think building is full of red tape, wait till you see what's involved in the 'planning' process.

    The only thing i would say on the matter is that there's no clear direction yet as to what will happen. Nobody has said that, like in your case, it could / couldnt be possible to set up a company for the duration of the build yourself.

    But anyway, yes Ireland has become an extremely bureaucratic state. the cynic in me would claim thats because public servants want to create more work for themselves to stay in jobs.....



    What is the process of setting up a company and to get insured in Ireland. Is it thr same as the UK.


  • #20
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    prewtna wrote: »
    It still will be (relatively) simple.

    Employ a professional to design, plan, tender, supervise and certify the project. Employ a builder to build the thing. It means building will be more expensive - plain and simple.

    As far as i can see the new legislation is trying to get rid of the black market of lads doing 'nixers' and make sure everyone is paying their taxes on all work done in the country - proper order really, as lads with legitimate businesses trying their best cannot compete with the black market.

    Probably the building control amendment regulations / health and safety aspect, was just a way of Revenue maximizing their income as well as the government being able to say - 'look we have reacted to Priory Hall and the evil building industry and evil immoral building professionals will never shaft Joe soap again'.

    It would be better if they were at least honest with us, but we can read between the lines. Rant over. Day over!



    What happened to one building their own home. Don't you think this goes against ones human rights.

    You say get a builder, i'll be more expensive etc... you see, We only have a set budget for this build. We are coming at the end of our lives and wouldn't want to take out loans to pay for something were capable of doing ourselves.


  • #21
    mikehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 621 ✭✭✭mikehn


    You would have other options for example around my area there a number of properties in a serious state of disrepair going for small money, these are crying out for a buyer with the ability to carry out the bulk of the work in renovating them themselves. Alternativley since you are thinking along the lines of a wooden frame there are a number of firms that will supply and erect the frame on site again at very reasonable money, there is one in Monaghan where you can view the plans, technical drawings etc on their site and get a quote also online.
    There would be still a bit of work for you in the groundwork, cladding etc to make it cost effective


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  • #22
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    tonkey wrote: »
    What happened to one building their own home. Don't you think this goes against ones human rights.

    You say get a builder, i'll be more expensive etc... you see, We only have a set budget for this build. We are coming at the end of our lives and wouldn't want to take out loans to pay for something were capable of doing ourselves.

    building has become a lot more scientific and technical since 1990's.

    A level of competence is required to building in accordance with regulations.
    Thermal bridging, air tightness, thermal mass DEAP, psi value, g value, U value, MHRV etc are all common terminology which impact lots of aspects of building today, and unless a tradesperson have a real working understanding of the science behind the regulations then its only right that there should be a restriction on what they can do.


  • #23
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    tonkey wrote: »
    Don't you think this goes against ones human rights.

    It's all about the common good and protecting people from themselves! :p


  • #24
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    tonkey wrote: »
    Is that because of these new regs or because theres no money left in ireland

    It's because of the new regs.
    You have to have a competent builder on site. If you put yourself down as the competent builder there's no comeback.

    Also you have to assign a professional certified BEFORE you start works in site and they must also supervise the build and certify that it will be built in a professional manner.

    On a smaller note, whoever told you there was no money left in Ireland was telling porkies. There is still wealth here, people are just a lot more savvy with splashing it about!


  • #25
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    If you think building is full of red tape, wait till you see what's involved in the 'planning' process.

    The only thing i would say on the matter is that there's no clear direction yet as to what will happen. Nobody has said that, like in your case, it could / couldnt be possible to set up a company for the duration of the build yourself.

    But anyway, yes Ireland has become an extremely bureaucratic state. the cynic in me would claim thats because public servants want to create more work for themselves to stay in jobs.....

    Some public servants are against these new regs and see them as only producing more of a paper trail and are not 100% happy with them ;)

    Also worth bearing in mind that the DOE (civil servants) came up with these new regs based on a forum set up that private sector, RIAI, EI etc all had input into.


  • #26
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    tonkey wrote: »
    What happened to one building their own home. Don't you think this goes against ones human rights.

    You say get a builder, i'll be more expensive etc... you see, We only have a set budget for this build. We are coming at the end of our lives and wouldn't want to take out loans to pay for something were capable of doing ourselves.

    Health, safety, sustainable and proper building takes precedence over building for yourself. I think we all agree that construction does need slightly more stricter regulation.


  • #27
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    kceire wrote: »
    Some public servants are against these new regs and see them as only producing more of a paper trail and are not 100% happy with them ;)

    Also worth bearing in mind that the DOE (civil servants) came up with these new regs based on a forum set up that private sector, RIAI, EI etc all had input into.

    I'm not referring specifically to the bca amendment act , if anything that just turns bco's into librarians.

    It's all the other bureaucratic hoops that need to be jumped through on the way...


  • #28
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    I'm not referring specifically to the bca amendment act , if anything that just turns bco's into librarians.

    It's all the other bureaucratic hoops that need to be jumped through on the way...

    As in planning?
    Is our system that different from other similar countries around the world?

    What way could it be improved in your opinion?


  • #29
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    kceire wrote: »
    As in planning?
    Is our system that different from other similar countries around the world?

    What way could it be improved in your opinion?

    It's all the little things. .. I'll give you a for instance. ..

    I had an application last year where a client wants to put three roof lights to the front of a dormer. In an FI the council wanted the effluent system opened, inspected and certified by an independent agent. The house is three years old.
    The cost of the proposed works was around 1000 euros. The cost that the FI would have incurred was almost equal to this.
    The client didn't answer the FI and is just going to install the rooflights anyway. If they make an issue of it I have advised him to argue 4 1 h. Lee them take him to court over it.

    Bureaucracy gone mad.


  • #30
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    It's all the little things. .. I'll give you a for instance. ..

    I had an application last year where a client wants to put three roof lights to the front of a dormer. In an FI the council wanted the effluent system opened, inspected and certified by an independent agent. The house is three years old.
    The cost of the proposed works was around 1000 euros. The cost that the FI would have incurred was almost equal to this.
    The client didn't answer the FI and is just going to install the rooflights anyway. If they make an issue of it I have advised him to argue 4 1 h. Lee them take him to court over it.

    Bureaucracy gone mad.

    Good example. Common sense should prevail there and if the system is under a certain age, then a declaration by the installer that if was installed only 3 years ago should be good enough for a planner that in all honesty will just file the results in a folder somewhere.

    I had one recently. Planning permission granted for a large extension to a spar shop. Extension completed and now a Separate application then for a 5m high illuminated signage pole on the land to the front.

    The land to the front was being paved with new slabs exactly where the pole would be as per the initial aplication.

    Commencement notice lodged for the pole. BCO inspected the site and realise the sub structure was in for the pole in advance of the 14 days notice given on the CN form.

    Common sense prevailed that it was silly to pave the area then dig it back up for the poles foundation pad.


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  • #31
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    kceire wrote: »
    It's because of the new regs.
    You have to have a competent builder on site. If you put yourself down as the competent builder there's no comeback.

    Also you have to assign a professional certified BEFORE you start works in site and they must also supervise the build and certify that it will be built in a professional manner.

    On a smaller note, whoever told you there was no money left in Ireland was telling porkies. There is still wealth here, people are just a lot more savvy with splashing it about!


    When you say no comeback, can you elaborate that more for me


  • #32
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    tonkey wrote: »
    When you say no comeback, can you elaborate that more for me

    You build it yourself.
    You then move in.

    Things break, not done correctly.
    No builder to persue as you don't it yourself so have to bear the costs yourself.


  • #33
    J DEERE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭J DEERE


    Would you mind giving a break down of costs tonkey in your estimate?


  • #34
    Chisler2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭Chisler2


    kceire wrote: »
    You build it yourself.
    You then move in.

    Things break, not done correctly.
    No builder to persue as you don't it yourself so have to bear the costs yourself.

    Surely the point Tonkey is making is that he and his two sons are highly experienced, capable builders! The man is building himself a very modest retirement home. It will be built safely and to high standards.........his standards in the light of his and his sons' experience.

    Is it not an option for Tonkey as a 'self-builder' to 'certify' his work. The 'certification' is surely an underwriting of the quality.

    I mourn the missed opportunity by the DoE to put in place an inspection system which would raise building standards in Ireland.

    An experienced builder like Tonkey with sophisticated knowledge of the systems he works with and co-ordinates (he specifically notes they don't do electricity!) can presumably (if this is not specifically prohibited) certify and underwrite the quality and standard of his own work/build?:confused:


  • #35
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Chisler2 wrote: »
    Is it not an option for Tonkey as a 'self-builder' to 'certify' his work. The 'certification' is surely an underwriting of the quality.


    An experienced builder like Tonkey with sophisticated knowledge of the systems he works with and co-ordinates (he specifically notes they don't do electricity!) can presumably (if this is not specifically prohibited) certify and underwrite the quality and standard of his own work/build?:confused:

    No he cannot.

    That's the way the regulations are set

    Read them above, the are quite clear that the builder must be a director of a building company.
    Is my understanding that there will be a voluntary registrar of builder next year, with a compulsary registry after.
    These builders will be required to hold all necessary instances including professional indemnity.
    In order to obtain professional insurance you will need to show that you are a professional builder, wHich means in effect that you are an established builDing contractor.

    This is only my opinion


  • #36
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the builder is asked to sign a legal certificate before works which declares that his the principle / director of a building company.

    Who would the building company be in your case?
    Tonkey couldnt you just set up
    tonkey wrote: »
    The building company, as of now, i dont know. What i had planned was for me and my sons to build this house ourselves with hiring an engineer to pass all our works so we can get the certs to comply with the regs.
    you're experienced, you name the sons as directors, you get insurance, you put your name on the register, then hire H&S, eng, arch consultants and build your house


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  • #37
    newbie2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭newbie2013


    are these new amendments not going to kill the self employed trades. Looking at these changes, they would all have to work under a builder instead of taking their own jobs on.


  • #38
    newbie2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭newbie2013


    What is it that one needs to be to be able to register as a builder. Would Joe public just be able to regiester as a builder and get insurance without any qualifications behind him. I know quite a few builders that would fall into this category yet still be very good at what they do.


  • #39
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    newbie2013 wrote: »
    What is it that one needs to be to be able to register as a builder. Would Joe public just be able to regiester as a builder and get insurance without any qualifications behind him. I know quite a few builders that would fall into this category yet still be very good at what they do.

    we do not know yet


  • #40
    tonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭tonkey


    J DEERE wrote: »
    Would you mind giving a break down of costs tonkey in your estimate?

    Sitework 5k
    Foundations 8_10k but expect less
    Blockwork/lintels/Dpc 6k
    Roof trusses/felt/batters/roof tiles 5k.
    Insulation 5-7k
    Heating system/plumbing. 6-8k
    Kitchen 1.5k
    Barroom/ensuite 1.5k
    Screed floor 1k
    Plasterboard/skim 4k
    Windows /doors 4k
    Electrics 5k
    Septic tank/ all outside pipe work 8-10k
    Internal doors/door frames 1k

    £61-£69k and 14-6k for contingency.

    This is just a quick break down of costs and take into consideration that this is just for materials. Imo, this is a fair estimate and could quite possibly see it coming under budget..

    We would also have materials left over from other jobs we've completed here in the UK with old bathroom suites/plumbing materials to name a few that some folk where throwing away.


  • #41
    newbie2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭newbie2013


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    No he cannot.

    That's the way the regulations are set

    Read them above, the are quite clear that the builder must be a director of a building company.
    Is my understanding that there will be a voluntary registrar of builder next year, with a compulsary registry after.
    These builders will be required to hold all necessary instances including professional indemnity.
    In order to obtain professional insurance you will need to show that you are a professional builder, wHich means in effect that you are an established builDing contractor.

    This is only my opinion

    What do you mean when you say a voluntary registrar then a compulsory the year after.

    Another question, how can one show they are a professional builder or building contractor. Would there some sort of course/ test so that joe public or the dodgy builder doesn't just turn up and register as one.


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  • #42
    newbie2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭newbie2013


    tonkey wrote: »
    Sitework 5k
    Foundations 8_10k but expect less
    Blockwork/lintels/Dpc 6k
    Roof trusses/felt/batters/roof tiles 5k.
    Insulation 5-7k
    Heating system/plumbing. 6-8k
    Kitchen 1.5k
    Barroom/ensuite 1.5k
    Screed floor 1k
    Plasterboard/skim 4k
    Windows /doors 4k
    Electrics 5k
    Septic tank/ all outside pipe work 8-10k
    Internal doors/door frames 1k

    £61-£69k and 14-6k for contingency.

    This is just a quick break down of costs and take into consideration that this is just for materials. Imo, this is a fair estimate and could quite possibly see it coming under budget..

    We would also have materials left over from other jobs we've completed here in the UK with old bathroom suites/plumbing materials to name a few that some folk where throwing away.



    That quote would all depend on what size of percolation area you have because it could range from 2000-10000 for this. Ive worked on some per areas in my time and some are small and others are quite large and can take quite alot of percolation stone then the special soil with the right amount of T values and that dont come cheap.

    I cant see anything wrong with your quotes but im not sure about coming under budget but in saying that, its all guess work because we dont know what the site or house would be like. What im going on is that me and my cousin worked on a job for his mother only this was a modest 3 bed house and it came in at 78000 euro and this was with a new kitchen and bathrooms bought up in northern ireland.


  • #43
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    newbie2013 wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say a voluntary registrar then a compulsory the year after.

    Another question, how can one show they are a professional builder or building contractor. Would there some sort of course/ test so that joe public or the dodgy builder doesn't just turn up and register as one.

    Firstly i will preface this with
    "THERE IS NO DIRECTION YET FROM GOVERNMENT OR ANY CONSTRUCTION BODY REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTING OF THESE NEW REGULATIONS"
    so until then everything is supposition.

    There is a requirement in the regulations to have a "CODE OF PRACTISE" formulated to deal with all these issues. This code of practise is not yet published so we dont know what will be required.

    But this is what is currently being proposed
    The Construction Industry Federation, in response to an earlier invitation from the Minister, is devising proposals in collaboration with the Department on a voluntary scheme of registration for builders and contractors with the intention of transitioning this to a statutory scheme over time when it is proven to be a quality registration scheme and operating effectively in practice
    from here


  • #44
    Chisler2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭Chisler2


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    No he cannot.

    That's the way the regulations are set

    Read them above, the are quite clear that the builder must be a director of a building company.
    Is my understanding that there will be a voluntary registrar of builder next year, with a compulsary registry after.
    These builders will be required to hold all necessary instances including professional indemnity.
    In order to obtain professional insurance you will need to show that you are a professional builder, wHich means in effect that you are an established builDing contractor.

    This is only my opinion

    A number of posters here who are familiar with/involved with the evolving regulations and standards report that the envisaged changes are merely a "document gathering/tax-generating" exercise and make diddly-squat difference to building standards and quality.

    OK.

    If Tonkey-the-Self-Builder goes ahead and does (post March 2014) what Every(woman)-the-Self-Builder did pre-March 2014 then what difference does that make.............given the dearth of inspection, plus the diminished responsibility of the CoCo's/building regulators posters here believe the new framework introduces?

    I am struggling to understand. Are we confusing the "map" with the "territory"?:confused: If Tonkey and his sons attend a pre-planning meeting with his intended local CC and discusses his build what happens AT THAT STAGE which is different to what happens now?


  • #45
    newbie2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭newbie2013


    tonkey wrote: »
    Sitework 5k
    Foundations 8_10k but expect less
    Blockwork/lintels/Dpc 6k
    Roof trusses/felt/batters/roof tiles 5k.
    Insulation 5-7k
    Heating system/plumbing. 6-8k
    Kitchen 1.5k
    Barroom/ensuite 1.5k
    Screed floor 1k
    Plasterboard/skim 4k
    Windows /doors 4k
    Electrics 5k
    Septic tank/ all outside pipe work 8-10k
    Internal doors/door frames 1k

    £61-£69k and 14-6k for contingency.

    This is just a quick break down of costs and take into consideration that this is just for materials. Imo, this is a fair estimate and could quite possibly see it coming under budget..

    We would also have materials left over from other jobs we've completed here in the UK with old bathroom suites/plumbing materials to name a few that some folk where throwing away.




    Just noticed that you have sterling down for your budget. Im sure you'd get a house finished for this and maybe even add another bedroom. Would it be just the 4 of you on site working the whole time or hiring in some labour from others.


  • #46
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    newbie2013 wrote: »
    Just noticed that you have sterling down for your budget. Im sure you'd get a house finished for this and maybe even add another bedroom. Would it be just the 4 of you on site working the whole time or hiring in some labour from others.
    here we go! where's KK today?


  • #47
    newbie2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭newbie2013


    Worst case scenario i see is that tonkey and his sons build the house, hires a registered builder who holds the proper insurance etc.., gets the builder to look over the work at certain stages,gives him a grand or 2, the builder signs a few bits of paper and everything becomes legal. Not that this will be against the rules, it just means if ever the house was sold and any major problems, then the buck stops with the builder whos just signed the paper work. All this legalization is is that there needs to be someone who can take the fall if any problems arises, thats my take on it anyway.


  • #48
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    newbie2013 wrote: »
    Worst case scenario i see is that tonkey and his sons build the house, hires a registered builder who holds the proper insurance etc.., gets the builder to look over the work at certain stages,gives him a grand or 2, the builder signs a few bits of paper and everything becomes legal. Not that this will be against the rules, it just means if ever the house was sold and any major problems, then the buck stops with the builder whos just signed the paper work. All this legalization is is that there needs to be someone who can take the fall if any problems arises, thats my take on it anyway.

    The buck doesnt stop with the builder at all. It stops at the architect / engineer.

    if people are going to flout the law, they wont bother half flouting it ;)


  • #49
    martinn123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭martinn123


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    No he cannot.

    That's the way the regulations are set

    Read them above, the are quite clear that the builder must be a director of a building company.
    Is my understanding that there will be a voluntary registrar of builder next year, with a compulsary registry after.
    These builders will be required to hold all necessary instances including professional indemnity.
    In order to obtain professional insurance you will need to show that you are a professional builder, wHich means in effect that you are an established builDing contractor.

    This is only my opinion

    I Disagree,

    exerpt from the Notice of Assignment of Builder
    As the building owner, I have assigned the following person as Builder of the
    works and I am satisfied that they are competent to undertake the works so
    assigned on my behalf.
    Builder’s Name: ................................................................................................................
    Address: .............................................................................................................................
    .............................................................................................................................................
    Tel.: ................................ Fax: ........................... Email: .................................

    also from the Undertaking By Builder
    Signature:......................................................................... Date: ......................................
    (to be signed by a Principal or Director of a building company only)

    Now a ''Person'' can be self employed OR a Director of Ltd Co

    A Principal, could also be self employed OR a Director. It says building Company, not Limited Company.

    My Opinion, awaiting the Final Draft of the Requlations.


  • #50
    newbie2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭newbie2013


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    The buck doesnt stop with the builder at all. It stops at the architect / engineer.

    if people are going to flout the law, they wont bother half flouting it ;)

    I didnt mean to flout the law, everything will be by the book. Its just youll need a builder to look over the build along with an engineer. Thats my take on it anyway.


  • #51
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    newbie2013 wrote: »
    I didnt mean to flout the law, everything will be by the book. Its just youll need a builder to look over teh build as long as an engineer. Thats my take on it anyway.

    No it doesnt, please read my post #9 again


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