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Teenage girl dies on street from peanut allergy

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Comments

  • #152
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As an aside, the future of pharmacy isn't in dispensing medication. It will be about providing services such as control of chronic treatment. The big u=issue here is would irish GP's rail against giving more responsibility to pharmacists.

    I guess it would depend. It would be welcomed where I live. There is only one doctor's surgery. There used to be two doctors, but one is pretty much avoided after some mishaps since her hubbie died of cancer.
    I've often made an appointment for 9am (eg just last month for my pregnancy confirmation) and I didn't get seen until after 11. I was the first app, so I'd hate to see how many people got turned away at 5PM :eek:


  • #153
    HarpFR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 ✭HarpFR


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As an aside, the future of pharmacy isn't in dispensing medication. It will be about providing services such as control of chronic treatment. The big u=issue here is would irish GP's rail against giving more responsibility to pharmacists.
    What the main statement was, is that there's loads of pharmacies but no doctors or mental health doctors.

    Now, don't get me wrong. Of course there's doctors and mental health doctors, but are hard enough to get access to while there's so many pharmacies.

    ---
    80% pharmacies.
    20% doctors.

    If you had 100% pharmacies and 0% doctors, then of course the pharmacies would be useless.


  • #154
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    HarpFR wrote: »
    Yes, well said.

    Lets say you go to a small town (based on real town):
    It takes you 4-5 minutes to drive around the whole town and know where each (5) pharmacies are located. You could drive an hour around the town, or walk for hours around the tiny town and have no idea where a Doctor is. In that town there's [one] doctor that is rarely there but yet there is 5 pharmacies. And in the pharmacies you can buy any of the OTC items any most shops and stores, and those OTC items are pretty weak.
    If someone is in extreme pain, mental health issues, etc etc etc they are unable to access a doctor in that town and so unable to purchase and medication from those 5 pharmacies.

    Yeah, my home town is a perfect example. Main street is about 1/3rd of a mile long. There are three pharmacies on the main street - two of which are huge and very clearly marked. The doctor's office however looks like an old Georgian townhouse with a small plaque beside the door to give it away. It is not on the main street. Neither is doctor on call. It's beside my house, a 15 minute walk from the town. Knowing that a doctor was in X pharmacy every Wednesday from 9-12 (for example) for appointments or emergency walk-ins would take a lot of pressure off actual GP offices, where a lot of people might only need a simple OTC drug and not realise it.


  • #155
    ceegee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭ceegee


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    This definitely is not true. I smell shenigans. Had this prescription already been dispensed? CD prescriptions are valid for 28 days after the date it is prescribed.

    While the prescription would still be valid it wouldn't be covered on the medical card if the hospital prescription was over a day old.


  • #156
    truebluesac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 406 ✭✭truebluesac


    There are out of hour doctor services and each pharmacy would know the location and contact details of the doctors in the local .

    Pharmacies regularly ring doc surgerys for one reason or another ( usually to translate the writting on a script )


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  • #157
    Warper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭Warper


    It seems common sense to ask any preparor of food if they have nuts in it if someone has a severe nut allergy, to go blaming a pharmacist for doing their job is avoiding blame


  • #158
    truebluesac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 406 ✭✭truebluesac


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As an aside, the future of pharmacy isn't in dispensing medication. It will be about providing services such as control of chronic treatment. The big u=issue here is would irish GP's rail against giving more responsibility to pharmacists.

    Some GP's have already opposed some local pharmacies for tge new influenza vacination program . Never mind taking other services on . Its seen as taking money out of their ppockets etc ,


  • #159
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    Warper wrote: »
    It seems common sense to ask any preparor of food if they have nuts in it if someone has a severe nut allergy, to go blaming a pharmacist for doing their job is avoiding blame

    My father in law specifically insisted, twice, to a server in a very reputable establishment in Louth that he is a coeliac, and under no circumstances was he to receive croutons in his side salad. What do you know, they came out on his salad. He sent it back and asked for a fresh salad ( he can't even use the same butter as everyone else).
    They sent him out the same salad with the croutons picked off.
    Sometimes making demands with regards to food preparation gets you nowhere.


  • #160
    HarpFR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 ✭HarpFR


    Warper wrote: »
    It seems common sense to ask any preparor of food if they have nuts in it if someone has a severe nut allergy, to go blaming a pharmacist for doing their job is avoiding blame
    Yes, but the issue is that anyone at mostly any time can walk into a Pharmacy, but it is a struggle and almost like a mission to go and see a Doctor.

    Lots of pharmacies but not many doctors.


  • #161
    ceegee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭ceegee


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    Yeah, my home town is a perfect example. Main street is about 1/3rd of a mile long. There are three pharmacies on the main street - two of which are huge and very clearly marked. The doctor's office however looks like an old Georgian townhouse with a small plaque beside the door to give it away. It is not on the main street. Neither is doctor on call. It's beside my house, a 15 minute walk from the town. Knowing that a doctor was in X pharmacy every Wednesday from 9-12 (for example) for appointments or emergency walk-ins would take a lot of pressure off actual GP offices, where a lot of people might only need a simple OTC drug and not realise it.

    The law as it stands would make this pretty much impossible to implement as there needs to be a seperation from the prescribing and dispensing processes.


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  • #162
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ceegee wrote: »
    While the prescription would still be valid it wouldn't be covered on the medical card if the hospital prescription was over a day old.
    So, the issue is the guy wouldn't pay for the medication for his wife. I work in Scotland so am not sure if this is the case in Ireland.


  • #163
    Toto Wolfcastle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    Warper wrote: »
    It seems common sense to ask any preparor of food if they have nuts in it if someone has a severe nut allergy, to go blaming a pharmacist for doing their job is avoiding blame

    In this case, as it was a buffet, there was a sign saying it contained nuts so there was no need to ask anyone.


  • #164
    Gyalist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    Warper wrote: »
    It seems common sense to ask any preparor of food if they have nuts in it if someone has a severe nut allergy, to go blaming a pharmacist for doing their job is avoiding blame

    Read this - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88093726&postcount=143


  • #165
    ceegee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭ceegee


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So, the issue is the guy wouldn't pay for the medication for his wife. I work in Scotland so am not sure if this is the case in Ireland.

    Most pharmacies would just give a few days on loan to a regular patient until they get a gp script, or charge the patient for the meds and refund when they bring in the gp script.

    It may be that the pharmacist just sent them to the gp to save the hassle of someone arguing over having to pay when they had a medical card. Poor practice if this is the case


  • #166
    ZeroBarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭ZeroBarry


    seamus wrote: »
    You don't know it was an obvious emergency though.

    We'd all like to think that we'd spot it straight away, but if the girl didn't look like she was specifically in need of an epipen, then the pharmacist (let's be honest it could have been an 18 year old behind the counter) can't really risk handing out an epi shot lest it make her condition worse.

    It's especially difficult given the location, I'm sure pharmacies on O'Connell St spend their days fending off very convincing attempts by junkies to scam medication.

    What's probably required is some form of alert system, like medic alert bracelets where someone with an allergy can present a card at a pharmacy and the pharmacist will administer the shot.

    A difficult tragedy alright, especially given how avoidable it was.

    Great reply, I was just thinking that "Medical alert bracelets/ dog tags/ watches etc already exist". http://www.identifyyourself.com/

    However I'm not aware of any legislation in our country that officially supports the use of these in emergency situations such as this unfortunate event. Are these common in our country? Do medical technicians (doctors/nurses/other) look for these forms of identification before acting?

    It is definitely something that should be investigated, drafted and/or revised immediately (depending on whether legislation exists or not) in order to save the lives of our citizens.

    This year has brought some trivial medical situations and I offer my condolences to any/all parties involved in any such situations.

    May those that have been lost, rest in peace.


  • #167
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    If it were my child I would have armed myself with the nearest sharp object (scissors, razor blades etc) and told the pharmacist to hand over the adrenalin. There surely wouldn't be professional consequences for the pharmacist if they handed something over to meet the demands of an armed person.

    Any later consequences, including prison time, would be well worth it so long as the child lived.


  • #168
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    I like to think that I'm a good judge of character and of situations. I've worked with heroin addicts and to be brutally honest, I'd like to think that I'd be able to tell the difference between someone in genuine and dire need, and an addict chancing their arm.

    I don't know the protocol in pharmacies so I'm not going to have a go. It's just....I don't know, if I was in that situation I would have folded and given what was needed. Easy for me to say without knowing what the consequences would be though.

    Horrible tragedy for all involved, pharmacists included.


  • #169
    Simi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Simi


    I've felt awful since I read this. You can come at it from any angle you like. But you cannot escape the fact that a child died because of the inaction of the pharmacist. They could have saved her life and by not acting directly contributed to her death.

    A child who is dying trumps any rule, regulation or law. Anyone who can't see that is inhuman.


  • #170
    wandatowell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    "A doctor was passing and had tried to help and put her into the recovery position. Ambulance and fire brigade men worked on her. But she was gone."


    That last paragraph was tragic to read.


  • #171
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Pharmacy fails to give epipen - girl dies - pharmacy at fault.
    Pharmacy gives out epipen - girl gets worse - pharmacy at fault.
    Pharmacy gives out epipen - girl fine - pharmacy loses license.


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  • #172
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Simi wrote: »
    I've felt awful since I read this. You can come at it from any angle you like. But you cannot escape the fact that a child died because of the inaction of the pharmacist. They could have saved her life and by not acting directly contributed to her death.

    A child who is dying trumps any rule, regulation or law. Anyone who can't see that is inhuman.

    Well yeah but if you're gonna look at it like that then you can also say that the parents did by not ensuring she had the epipen, that she did by not checking the food, that whoever suggested the restaurant did... you see where I'm going with this. The pharmacists hands were tied as far as they were concerned and as far as we know she didn't even know the severity/full details of what was going on. The parents would have known the full details of the child's allergy and how to be fully prepared should anything happen. People who can see all sides of the argument despite the fact that's its a huge tragedy aren't inhumane, they just know it isn't always black and white, and trying to point the blame at someone doing their job is just making a heartbreaking situation worse. Its not like the rules are there for ****s and giggles.


  • #173
    Simi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Simi


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Pharmacy fails to give epipen - girl dies - pharmacy at fault.
    Pharmacy gives out epipen - girl gets worse - pharmacy at fault.
    Pharmacy gives out epipen - girl fine - pharmacy loses license.
    A child is dead. Nothing that could have happened to the pharmacist could even come close to that.


  • #174
    ceegee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭ceegee


    Simi wrote: »
    I've felt awful since I read this. You can come at it from any angle you like. But you cannot escape the fact that a child died because of the inaction of the pharmacist. They could have saved her life and by not acting directly contributed to her death.

    A child who is dying trumps any rule, regulation or law. Anyone who can't see that is inhuman.

    A child who the pharmacist did not see and had no way of telling if she was in fact having an allergic reaction (or even existed)


  • #175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Simi wrote: »
    A child is dead. Nothing that could have happened to the pharmacist could even come close to that.

    The pharmacist probably didn't have all the details.


  • #176
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,192 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Simi wrote: »
    I've felt awful since I read this. You can come at it from any angle you like. But you cannot escape the fact that a child died because of the inaction of the pharmacist. They could have saved her life and by not acting directly contributed to her death.

    A child who is dying trumps any rule, regulation or law. Anyone who can't see that is inhuman.

    Always has to be someone else's fault doesn't it?


  • #177
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »
    Its unfair to expect a pharmacist to have that kind of information off the top of their head though. Its a terribly sad thing to happen, and so close to christmas as well.

    It's not unfair at all. Anaphylaxis and the actions of adrenaline are basic knowledge for anyone with a pharmacy degree.

    The problem is the law. Pharmacists can already give people adrenaline injections both on and off premises but only if their anaphylaxis is the result of the flu vaccination.


  • #178
    amdublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    So so sad.

    Ultimately the pharmacists hands were tied here.


    The poor girl. What a tragedy. RIP


  • #179
    Simi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Simi


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Always has to be someone else's fault doesn't it?
    If someone hits a child who runs out in front of their car that's an accident. Someone who denies life saving treatment to a child to protect their livelihood is inhuman.


  • #180
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Simi wrote: »
    A child is dead. Nothing that could have happened to the pharmacist could even come close to that.
    Very true. But I dont blame the pharmacy for the death. Nor do I blame the mother for failing to carry the medication or screening the food. If I had to blame someone it would be anyone who has ever filed a frivolous lawsuit against someone who was just trying to do the right thing and thus created a culture where business are terrified of their own customers
    Some times people die.


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  • #181
    Simi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Simi


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The pharmacist probably didn't have all the details.
    They could have gone outside & looked ffs.


This discussion has been closed.
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