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The Mark Duggan trial.

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Comments

  • #152
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    end of the road wrote: »
    he didn't live by the sword, he was shot over a gun, 2 completely different things

    Let's face it, he could have been pointing a sawn off shotgun at them and you'd still find something to moan about.


  • #153
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    walrusgumble wrote: »
    Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.

    taking delight in someones child being shot is the lowist of the low in fairness, your probably no better by the sounds of your attitude
    walrusgumble wrote: »
    pure filth.
    maybe, but thats life.
    walrusgumble wrote: »
    society should shun them.
    why? nobody is forcing you to hang around with them.
    walrusgumble wrote: »
    no doubt on the social welfare.
    and? nothing to do with this man being shot dead in fairness.
    walrusgumble wrote: »
    That man got everything he deserved.
    why? because his family is "pure filth, and is on the social wellfare"?

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #154
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    seamus wrote: »
    People are deliberately misinterpreting what was decided here.
    don't agree.
    seamus wrote: »
    Nobody is saying that he was shot with a gun in his hand.
    the officers involved or at least one of them did.
    seamus wrote: »
    The shooting was ruled lawful because the police officer(s) who fired were determined by a civilian jury to have had reasonable cause to believe that he was holding a gun at the time and was a real and imminent threat.
    the officers couldn't prove it though, so that ruling is rather stupid in fairness.
    seamus wrote: »
    It doesn't actually matter whether he was holding the gun or not, and rightfully so.
    it very much matters, and not rightfully so at all, its lowering the burdin of proof on the part of the police
    seamus wrote: »
    What's missed is that the jury did find that the entire incident could have been avoided with better preparation by the force(s) involved. So the police haven't been found completely blameless, just that the firing of shots was legal and justifiable.
    they got it badly wrong by allowing someone suspected of carrying a fire arm to get into a taxi in the first place, shambles

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #155
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    It's tragic when there's a loss of life. Duggan was armed with a gun just prior to his death. He had intent, there is no doubt about that. Was he worried about the law or rules of society? Not at all. The family are upset at the verdict, but they must accept he went out that day armed and paid the consequences.


    I do not like the fact that a person can be shot, even unarmed. What sort of person wants to be a police marksman, knowing that he/she will have to kill at some time on the future? Odd people IMO.
    i don't buy the idea that nobody who becomes a police marksman or a soldier doesn't want to kill somebody at some stage, why do those jobs then, you know that it could be part of the job description, i'd agree their odd people.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #156
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    end of the road wrote: »
    i don't buy the idea that nobody who becomes a police marksman or a soldier doesn't want to kill somebody at some stage, why do those jobs then, you know that it could be part of the job description, i'd agree their odd people.

    That's one seriously stupid statement ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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  • #157
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    These careful tactics have significantly reduced gun crime'
    apparently

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #158
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    old hippy wrote: »
    You suggested that those of us who question deaths in custody or fatal shootings are somehow anti-law. Let's address that for starters.

    I mentioned nothing about deaths in custody so stop your lying sidetracking right there.

    Those of you who so blindly defend dangerous criminals, who would gladly kill both police and citizens, in such a mock-innocent manner are to be despised. You don't "question", you endlessly needle and cajole those who strive for justice and protection against the lying murdering thieving raping scum you so disgustingly defend.

    You need to pick a side; the fact is is that your comments here reveal you to be a moral coward who would defend a criminal against a policeman. And none of this bullshít about "oh but some police are corrupt!!" Of course corruption exists, deal with it like an adult and let justice take its course in the courts.


  • #159
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Pudders wrote: »
    Blair Peach

    Colin Roach

    Harry Stanley

    Charles de Menzes

    Ian Tomlinson

    these are all cases that the Met Police should answer about.
    they won't though, they will just come out with the usual "we've learned from our mistakes" or make out that "everyone is out to get us or against us"

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #160
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    seamus wrote: »
    Giving armed officers the individual power to make an educated judgement call as to whether or not they should fire, is essential to the safe operation of an armed unit.
    not at all
    seamus wrote: »
    Requiring them to wait for an order or absolute 100% solid proof that the person is about to pull the trigger, endangers lives.
    their lives most likely, its what their payed for

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #161
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    I thought Mark Duggan (RIP) was dead. What is he being tried for?


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  • #162
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    end of the road wrote: »
    not at all
    Are you going to elaborate on that?
    their lives most likely, its what their payed for

    And they have a right to defend their lives. Plus there's also the possibility of other people being in the area that could be hit by fire, intentional or not.


  • #163
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    kuntboy wrote: »
    Scumbag lived by the sword.
    not good enough, that comment is usually written by little children who think their big by condoning the death of someone or who think their making people believe their desensidized to death when their not.
    kuntboy wrote: »
    How many people did he terrorise and brutalise with his gun previously? I am sick to death of scumbag wannabe "gangsta" knob-jockeys and their thug gangsta "culture" that is all over the place nowadays. Prancing around thinking they are hard with their guns and pitbulls trying to intimidate everyone, and with their stupid souped-up hotrods with spoilers blasting out dubstep. If they only knew how ridiculous they looked, they all think they're in a US rap video, its pathetic.
    and this has what to do with mark duggan?
    kuntboy wrote: »
    de Menzes should have stopped when told to by the cops, instead he ran onto a train chased by them a few days after an attack- what an idiot, what did he expect would happen?
    why do you and others pedal this **** in relation to the de Menzes case? he was not told to stop, nor did he jump any railings, it was found to be lies, he was not an idiot, but an innocent man murdered because of incompitent commanders and trigger happy idiots

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #164
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    there was a huge amount of criticism for the tame, hands-off approach by the UK police to the subsequent riots
    yeah, some would have liked to see fire arms officers shooting dead rioters on the streets, no the way they handled the riots was actually very good, if they had been heavy handed they could have made things 10 times worse

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #165
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Honestly, to judge the policemen that shot JC De Menezes you had to be living or working in London at the time. Two attacks on the tube in the space of a week and the atmosphere in the city could be cut with a knife. My heart goes out to his family, but I also have a lot of sympathy for the policemen involved as well. As far as they were concerned, he was a suicide bomber.
    oh come on, they told lies about it, even a picture of JC De Menezes was apparently doctored to look like one of the bombers

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #166
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.
    If in doubt take him out
    oh dear, some dangerous people here IMO

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #167
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    catallus wrote: »
    I mentioned nothing about deaths in custody so stop your lying sidetracking right there.

    Those of you who so blindly defend dangerous criminals, who would gladly kill both police and citizens, in such a mock-innocent manner are to be despised. You don't "question", you endlessly needle and cajole those who strive for justice and protection against the lying murdering thieving raping scum you so disgustingly defend.

    You need to pick a side; the fact is is that your comments here reveal you to be a moral coward who would defend a criminal against a policeman. And none of this bullshít about "oh but some police are corrupt!!" Of course corruption exists, deal with it like an adult and let justice take its course in the courts.
    lol, people are entitled to question the polices actions, they work for us after all, having an opinion that something the police does is wrong is not equal to siding with criminals

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #168
    Pug160
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Pug160


    end of the road wrote: »
    not at all

    their lives most likely, its what their payed for

    Do you mind if I ask what age you are? Because it seems as though you don't quite understand the reality of these situations. These are not computer games, this is real life where people get hurt or even killed, and all in the blink of an eye. These people are violent criminals who have very little regard for human life, so you have to bear that in mind and step into a police officer's shoes. From reading your posts it just seems as though you're some kid who has lived a life wrapped in cotton wool or something.


  • #169
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Pug160 wrote: »
    Do you mind if I ask what age you are? Because it seems as though you don't quite understand the reality of these situations. These are not computer games, this is real life where people get hurt or even killed, and all in the blink of an eye. These people are violent criminals who have very little regard for human life, so you have to bear that in mind and step into a police officer's shoes. From reading your posts it just seems as though you're some kid who has lived a life wrapped in cotton wool or something.

    a fire arms officer is payed to put his life on the line and risk his life, its what he is payed for, his job

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #170
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    end of the road wrote: »
    a fire arms officer is payed to put his life on the line and risk his life, its what he is payed for, his job

    Actually he/ there not paid to risk the lives there paid and trained to protect the public from armed scum bags
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #171
    smurgen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    You don't go buying an illegal handgun for no reason. He was a menacing character and courted the dangerous lifestyle.the consequences of which are there to see.we lost no cure for cancer when he died


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  • #172
    Limecube
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭Limecube


    From my perspective, its a really good thing that a police shooting in the EU comes under such scrutiny. Its makes the EU safer for everyone. If this had happened in much of Asia or South America, there wouldn't be nearly as much publicity and investigation.

    As someone in Ireland who carried an firearm as part of my job (rare enough in this country), I know that SO19 are very well respected internationally. They are not trigger happy video game heads.

    Everyone knows that a fatal shooting is a tragedy for everyone involved. Because of my past experiences, I could write for ages on the intricacies of the implications of have a job where firearms are involved. None of it really makes a difference.

    What I'm most surprised about is the people on this forum, on newspapers and in general, are so fixated on the aspect that the suspect was not armed at the time. Remember, this was an targeted, intelligence lead stop. Getting rid of a firearm (secretly) six seconds before being killed and running away from SO19, is not the natural reaction of an innocent member of the community.

    Lots of folks write that the suspect had "surrendered" by secretly throwing away his firearm before SO19 had secured the scene. Saying that would be like saying that its wrong to hit me, if I unprovoked, ran at you on the street with a large knife and seconds from reaching you, stopped running and threw the knife on the ground. If your reaction was to defend yourself, than that's understandable. Many posters on this forum are suggesting that under that circumstance, nothing should happen as the knife was dropped at the last second. That's simply not the way the world of armed conflict works.

    I guess, at the end of this, at least nobody doing an honest days work was killed during this incident.


  • #173
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    end of the road wrote: »
    a fire arms officer is payed to put his life on the line and risk his life, its what he is payed for, his job

    This statement is utter stupidity and does not reflect well on you.


  • #174
    Limecube
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭Limecube


    Zambia wrote: »
    This statement is utter stupidity and does not reflect well on you.

    Actually, a lot of people think this. A lot of people in Ireland think that the police can only fire if they are themselves shot; which is not true. Police can discharge a firearm if they believe that their life or the life of another person is at immediate risk.


  • #175
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Zambia wrote: »
    This statement is utter stupidity and does not reflect well on you.
    so be it, i'm still sticking to the statement and i still agree with it hense writing it

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #176
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    end of the road wrote: »
    so be it, i'm still sticking to the statement and i still agree with it hense writing it

    You're wrong though. Why would somebody be employed to risk their life? What's the point in that?


  • #177
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,854 ✭✭✭cml387


    Armed officers have split second decsions to make.

    We as society put them in the line of fire.


  • #178
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,481 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    You're wrong though. Why would somebody be employed to risk their life? What's the point in that?
    ehh, to save others? you think a soldier or a fire fighter isn't payed to risk their lives? no their just payed to stand there doing nothing i suppose

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #179
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    end of the road wrote: »
    ehh, to save others?
    Now you've got it. They're paid to protect other people, not to risk their lives.
    you think a soldier or a fire fighter isn't payed to risk their lives? no their just payed to stand there doing nothing i suppose
    Maybe you haven't got it after all. No, they're paid to protect people. Risking their lives naturally comes with the job, but that isn't their job.


  • #180
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    A timely reminder to those of you who dare not question police integrity

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-scotland-yards-rotten-core-police-failed-to-address-endemic-corruption-9050224.html

    A former senior officer, who recently retired from Scotland Yard, told The Independent: “Nothing has changed. The Met is still every bit as corrupt as it was back then.”


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  • #181
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    Duggen is no loss to the world why people are defending this scumbag I will never understand.


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