Advice on parent teacher meeting

Stewie Griffin · 24-01-2014 07:05PM #1

I'm looking for advice from any primary teachers on here.

My wife and I have been offered a time for our child's parent teacher meeting at a time that doesn't suit us, as we are both working full time. We requested a time later in the day that we could manage better (at 3p.m.) but that time doesn't suit the teacher. She offered us another time, again in a morning slot that we just can't manage.
Now what is confusing us is that we met our younger child's teacher at 3pm, without any issues.

Why would that inconsistency be there? Is it a matter for each individual teacher to arrange their parent teacher meetings as they see fit? If this is so, is there no accommodation made for houses where both parents work?

Golfwidow · 24-01-2014 07:18PM

Is this the official parent teacher meeting of the year? Under the terms of the Croke Park agreement ( now Haddington Road) we are expected to offer at least one meeting after school hours. In my own school we held them last November. On one evening the PT meeting officially began at 4pm and ended at 6 pm. The next evening - meetings were from 5pm - 7pm. Of course they lasted longer than that! I finished at about 7.30pm on the first evening and then close to 9pm on the second evening. Other meetings with parents throughout the year are organised for early morning before official school opening or after 3pm.

Golfwidow · 24-01-2014 07:25PM

I just took this from the INTO website to clarify what is expected under the terms of the Croke Park / Haddington Road Agreement:

"In respect of parent-teacher meetings Circular 14/04 states: “In each school year there will be one formal parent/teacher meeting. This meeting will normally commence at 3.15 and will end at 5.45 pm unless otherwise agreed at local level between all relevant parties.”
This existing commitment to a two and a half hour parent teacher meeting outside of tuition time also remains.
The Croke Park hours could be used to extend the duration of this meeting or to provide for formal parent/teacher meetings on more than one afternoon/evening."

Most teachers and schools do facilitate parents beyond this, however. I know that where I work myself and colleagues understand the difficulties for working parents and we will try to meet them half way ... Many of us are working parents too!!
Hope that helps!

Stewie Griffin · 24-01-2014 07:37PM

Hi and thanks for the prompt reply.

Yes, it is the one and only official parent teacher meeting for us. I would be fairly the school has not already carried out a parent teacher meeting in the evening for other classes.
Like I said, it's the inconsistency that has us mystified. We were so grateful that the other teacher met us at 3pm, but we are not sure what the problem is this time.

Is every school different in this regard? And could it be the case that there might be no agreed school policy on this?

Surely we're not the first working couple that are finding it tricky to make a p-t meeting?

Golfwidow · 24-01-2014 08:15PM

Maybe you should check out for sure whether or not this is indeed the official PT meeting of the year. If it is indeed the case - you could indeed quote the above circular to the school principal and ask why the directive is not possibly being followed in this particular school. I have to say that it annoys me to think that there are some school staffs / teachers who may not be towing the line giving a bad name to the rest of us who do!! Good luck!!

Big Bag of Chips · 24-01-2014 08:29PM

Just because that time suited one teacher doesn't mean it would suit another. In our kids' school the teachers had different times depending what suited them. Some met parents from 8am, some met parents up until, and possibly after 8pm. Some were there until only 4pm on Tuesday, but stayed until 8pm on Wednesday.

Some parents met teachers on a completely different day to the official meetings, as those days didn't suit the parents.

Call the teacher, tell them evening time after school is the only time that suits you and let her suggest what suits her.

Stewie Griffin · 24-01-2014 08:51PM

@ golfwidow. I'm reluctant to be ringing up the principal and quoting circulars but both the times offered to us have been 9.10am and no compromise has been offered. I know how the second level parent teacher meetings operate, and I was genuinely curious why it wasn't so at primary level. Your quoting of the circular seems to indicate that it is quite similar after all.
I'm reluctant because I don't want to be the parent that's ringing the school in a huff over every little issue, and I don't want to put the principal in a situation where he pulls rank on the teacher and she meets us only under duress from the principal.
I should add that I'm 100% sure that all the meetings are going on over the next few weeks on an individually arranged basis, as opposed to the general gathering in a hall or gym that would be typical at second level.

@bigbagofchips. 3pm or later suits us but this request didn't suit the teacher, and we were offered another 9.10am slot as an alternative to the first one we turned down. This correspondence has all been by a series of notes in our son's homework journal, rather than by phone. Would a phone call be any more likely to yield a better result, do you think?

Big Bag of Chips · 24-01-2014 08:56PM

Stewie Griffin wrote: »

Would a phone call be any more likely to yield a better result, do you think?

Yes! At least you can talk and try to find a time that suits, rather than notes over and back. Call the school and leave a message for her to contact you at her convenience.

Stewie Griffin · 24-01-2014 09:09PM

Ok, it goes without saying that a phonecall is far more direct, but I'm reluctant to force her hand. I really don't want any situation where she is compelled to meet us.

Big Bag of Chips · 24-01-2014 09:14PM

You want to find out how your child is doing at school... The only way you will do that is by meeting with the teacher! She won't mind meeting you, and you can be sure you are not the first parents who will have to have made an appointment outside of "office hours" with her.

Stewie Griffin · 24-01-2014 09:22PM

Fair enough, that's true. Yeah, it was the seeming stubbornness that threw us, to be honest. I was just trying to get to the bottom of whether this was a common or accepted practice with primary teachers that's all.

Big Bag of Chips · 24-01-2014 09:32PM

I wouldn't say it was stubbornness on her part really, just bad communication between you!

Stewie Griffin · 24-01-2014 09:43PM

She would be aware that the two of us are working full time, so it's reluctance to oblige us, at the very least.

Not sure I would necessarily agree that its bad communication just because we can't agree on a time that works for both parties.

Anyway, like I said, I just didn't want to go in like a bull about it until I knew what was considered acceptable elsewhere.

Big Bag of Chips · 24-01-2014 11:03PM

I mean bad communication in the sense that you are sending notes over and back. She sends a note suggesting a time, it doesn't suit. You send one back suggesting another time, it doesn't suit. She sends another note suggesting a different day, it doesn't suit.

A phone call would have sorted it out much easier...

I'd also be confused as to why you think you have to go in "like a bull"?? Surely phoning the school to arrange a time to meet with your child's teacher shouldn't be a huge issue? Parents all over the country do it regularly for various reasons.

Stewie Griffin · 24-01-2014 11:13PM

Ok, like a bull might have been a touch OTT, but I wanted to be sure that I wasn't asking for something that might have portrayed me as pushy parent etc.

Anyway, thanks for the advice.

An Bradán Feasa · 25-01-2014 09:59AM

Good practice in this regard means that if a child in the school has siblings, that these teachers attempt to schedule times for these meetings as close together as possible, e.g. a teacher at the senior end of the school arranges a time, sends a note with this time to sibling's teacher lower down the classes in the school, that 2nd teacher arranges a time accordingly, and so on, and so on, until all meetings for one family are scheduled close together.

You could also consider taking some sort of leave from your job for a part of the day to attend the meeting, if this is a possibility for you. I know of a lot of parents who do this.

Outside of that, I'll just echo what other people said here - ring the school!

muckisluck · 25-01-2014 12:58PM

Surely 9.10 am is during the school day. Is the teacher not involved teaching at that time. My childrens schools have always been very strict that appointments must be made through the school offices as the teachers can't be interrupted for any reason during the school day.

Stewie Griffin · 25-01-2014 03:19PM

The school starts at 9.20. To be honest, our wish for a 3pm slot would involve getting time off work too, but it's less trouble at that time of day. Either way, it involves getting off work, but it seems it's either 9.10 or not at all as far as the teacher is concerned.

Jocelynel · 25-01-2014 03:38PM

in my own primary school, a note came home asking us what day suited us and also to indicate if we need an 8am appointment before school starts. most appointments therefore are for after 2.30 when classes end that week. i've got 2 in the same school and both teachers worked together to have both meetings on the same day with close enough times, without me even asking them...which i very much appreciated

byhookorbycrook · 25-01-2014 06:13PM

In our school we schedule siblings as close as we can time wise. I think a polite phone call is the way to go. The teacher may well have other parents who asked for 3 pm, she can't just tell them to come at a different time.

seavill · 25-01-2014 11:37PM

I was thinking the same thing, maybe there are people already booked in for 3pm, might not be anything personal just you may have been last in for a slot and just unlucky.
If you feel you cant ring a school over something like this I think its a bit mad. Even ring to talk to the secretary explain the siutation about the notes and ask them to see can they sort it knowing the story and get back to you or could the teacher ring at a time that suits them.
I think you are making a big deal out of somehting that doesn't need to be (I mean a simple phone call not the appointment)

Missyelliot2 · 25-01-2014 11:41PM

You could always ask for a phone call and discuss your child's progress over the phone. It's not ideal, but unless there's some glaringly obvious problem, there shouldn't be a problem.

Stewie Griffin · 26-01-2014 10:17AM

Thanks for all the replies.

Maybe I have given the impression that I'm afraid to ring the school. It's not that at all. All the notes for the appointments went home the same day so other parents having any 3pm slot wasn't an issue.

From what I can gather, she is not making any 3pm slot available. I suspected that the Haddington Road agreement meant she had to. Maybe she doesn't. One of golf widows replies suggests she has that wriggle room.

If it's a case that she is obliged to meet us after 3pm, we wanted her to volunteer for it rather than us force her into it.

We just didn't want to be the ones that called her out on how strictly she is adhering to HR, in the interests of harmony and everyone getting along in a small country school.

Bananatop · 26-01-2014 03:50PM

Fair play to you for showing a bit of thought : ). Sometimes it's hard to know the etiquette in these situations! But I'd echo other posters about ringing, it'll be far easier to sort out a time that suits you all.

byhookorbycrook · 26-01-2014 04:57PM

She actually doesn't have to take parents at 3pm at all. She could go 3.30 to 5.30 if she wanted to over a number of days.

muckisluck · 29-01-2014 10:38PM

I think that is incorrect. Schools are obliged to offer one formal parent teacher meeting per year. The duration of this should be 2 and a half hours. 3.30 to 5.30 wouldn't meet the obligation on the school to provide 2 1/2 hours.

Big Bag of Chips · 29-01-2014 10:47PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

She could go 3.30 to 5.30 if she wanted to over a number of days.

If its over a number of days it would be more than the 2.5 hours you mention...

muckisluck · 30-01-2014 03:59PM

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

If its over a number of days it would be more than the 2.5 hours you mention...

It's more than the 2.5 hours but but it wouldn't be one meeting.

Big Bag of Chips · 30-01-2014 08:50PM

I think you are misinterpreting the "one" meeting... Or maybe I am!

I read it as the school has to offer "one meeting" per academic year... Meaning one batch of parent teacher meetings, which could be spread out over 3 days, but is still considered the one parent/teacher meeting for that year.

What if the school stuck rigidly to one parent teacher meeting of 2.5 hours, and a number of parents didn't get a slot, and the school didn't budge on times... Because they only have to offer one block of 2.5 hours? I'm sure there would be uproar!!

Maybe I'm understanding it wrong, though.....

muckisluck · 30-01-2014 09:02PM

Circular 14/04 from the DES is the circular which covers parent teacher meetings and certainly the text there indicates one formal meeting of 2 and a half hours with a proviso that parents should be catered for outside of the formal meeting time if they cannot make it. There is local flexibility on starting and finishing times but the expectation is that the meeting itself should be 2 and a half hours. All the primary schools in my town offer this arrangement to parents. Some do it straight after school. Others come back in at night.

byhookorbycrook · 30-01-2014 09:07PM

The 2.5 hours is the time laid down by the DES, it doesn't specify what actual times HAVE to be used. In reality, if it were only 2.5 hours in total, parents of children in classes of 30 would be getting much less than ten minutes each, never mind before delays set in, parents don't show/come on the wrong day or whatever.

From the DES site:
2. Parent/Teacher meetings

There are differences between the post-primary and primary sectors which make it appropriate to apply a different model in respect of parent/teacher meetings in the primary sector than that applicable in the post-primary sector. These factors include the age of the children, the pattern of attendance of parents at primary schools, and that children at primary level are taught by a single teacher.

Having regard to the overall circumstances of children at primary level:

1. The parties acknowledge and accept that a parent should be able to have a formal meeting with a teacher at a suitable and convenient time. If such a meeting cannot be facilitated at a formal parent/teacher meeting then the parent will be offered a suitable and convenient appointment for same.

2. In each school year there will be one formal parent/teacher meeting held in each primary school. This meeting will normally commence at 3.15 pm and will end at 5.45 pm unless otherwise agreed at local level between all relevant parties. In any event the parent/teacher meeting will not take place during the school tuition period. The school will close 15 minutes early on the day of the formal parent/teacher meeting.

paleo muinteoir · 30-01-2014 09:45PM

In my school we ran our p/t meetings over two days - which means with 34 in the class, that's 17 slots on each day of 10 mins each - starting after a school day, as per HR. Not an easy day for any teacher.
We went painstakingly down through the school to arrange for sibling meetings to be one after the other. This isn't always an easy feat.
I got requests from parents asking to change to x, y z time. I was unable to accomodate as others were already scheduled for every 10 min slot and putting them out puts out the meetings of all of their children and so affects other teachers, and in turn the other parents they meet.
I think it important that parents remember - you are only arranging to be available for your child's meeting - teachers have to make arrangements for 30+ meetings. 'Obliging' you, as the OP put it, isn't always that black and white.
I don't know about other schools but we provide the academic year calendar the previous June with the p/t dates marked on. To me, with 6 months advance notice, it shouldn't be horrendously difficult for parents to make themselves available at the allocated slots.

But getting annoyed at a teacher for 'not obliging' you is a little harsh - you're not the only parent they're dealing with and they are more often than not are trying to work to the other teachers' timetables as well as their own. We're not miracle workers.

Stewie Griffin · 31-01-2014 09:03AM

In your rush to defend the teacher, you seem to have missed that my point that she is simply not scheduling any meetings for after school hours, HR or not HR.

I should add that the meeting has finally been arranged- for a 9.10am slot.

I reiterate that we met another teacher in the school after 3pm.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how a request to meet two working parents at 3pm makes me seem harsh. You say it might not be black and white- if she is not arranging any 3pm meeting, and the fact that the meeting is finally arranged for a morning slot, makes me think that it actually is fairly straightforward after all.

byhookorbycrook · 31-01-2014 09:41AM

Are you saying none of her meetings are outside class contact hours?

Stewie Griffin · 31-01-2014 03:47PM

No. They are all ten minutes before school starts, so obviously she is outside school time. I genuinely don't have a problem with that. It just doesn't suit us.

muckisluck · 31-01-2014 05:19PM

I would think its not the teachers fault but rather the school. It is much more convenient for parents of primary school children to visit the school on one day and see all their children's teachers at the same meeting. Its ok for parents with only one child to do this before school meeting whenever suits but a its very poor service if thats all the school offers. It's also in breach of DES rules.

byhookorbycrook · 01-02-2014 01:28AM

muckisluck wrote: »

I would think its not the teachers fault but rather the school. It is much more convenient for parents of primary school children to visit the school on one day and see all their children's teachers at the same meeting. Its ok for parents with only one child to do this before school meeting whenever suits but a its very poor service if thats all the school offers. It's also in breach of DES rules.

How is it breach of DES rules ???

muckisluck · 01-02-2014 09:30AM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

How is it breach of DES rules ???

Circular 14/04 states that all schools should have one formal meeting per year lasting 2 and a half hours. Slotting parents in over a period of time for 10 mins before school is not compatible with this circular.

Kathnora · 02-02-2014 08:32AM

As a little tangent to this discussion ....it always amuses me how almost all parents can turn up in school at perhaps 11am on the morning of a school play or other performance and that some of these same people can never agree to a suitable time to meet the teacher for a P/T meeting. Some of our teachers often take the opportunity to "nab" the parent on these occasions as it can often be the only time we get a chance to meet them!

byhookorbycrook · 02-02-2014 06:02PM

muckisluck wrote: »

Circular 14/04 states that all schools should have one formal meeting per year lasting 2 and a half hours. Slotting parents in over a period of time for 10 mins before school is not compatible with this circular.

Formal meeting outside of school hours ,local arrangements. The 2.5 hours is notional, in that if it were ONLY 2.5 hours, most parents would be getting 5 mins a year.

muckisluck · 02-02-2014 06:52PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Formal meeting outside of school hours ,local arrangements. The 2.5 hours is notional, in that if it were ONLY 2.5 hours, most parents would be getting 5 mins a year.

The 2.5 hours is most certainly not notional. Anything over 2.5 hours can be counted as part of the Haddington Rd agreement that teachers have signed up to. I know some schools run 2.5 hours one day and the same again another day with the 2nd day coming from Haddington Rd. Others do 2 hours on two different days with 1.5 hours out of Haddington Rd. These are local arrangements that allow parents more than the 5 mins per child you referred to. However they in no way take away from the fact that 2.5 hours is expected from every school in the country for parent teacher meetings.

byhookorbycrook · 02-02-2014 07:49PM

Yes ,the 2.5 hours must be done, but it is not stated anywhere that they HAVE to be done after school. Outside of school hours means before or after school.

muckisluck · 02-02-2014 09:27PM

You're partly right they could be done in a 2 and a half hour block before school (if that is what everyone involved wishes)- not 10 minute meetings over a period of time. I am really surprised that a moderator on an education site flaunts the circulars as if they don't count. Parents have rights in schools as well as teachers. Most people presume that moderators have superior knowledge and will give the right answers. Not for the first time have I found advice on this particular forum very dubious.

byhookorbycrook · 02-02-2014 10:05PM

Explain exactly how I am flouting the circular please. If you have a problem with my posts, feel free to report them.

killbillvol2 · 02-02-2014 10:38PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Explain exactly I am flouting the circular please.

Maybe flouting (or even flaunting) circulars on message boards is banned under HRA? :eek:

Advice on parent teacher meeting

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