Why doesn't the 18:30 serve Tullamore?

Lapin · 25-06-2014 02:51PM #1

Just checking train times from Tullamore back to Galway next Saturday and noticed that the 18:30 Heuston - Galway train doesn't stop at the town at all.

Just curious as to why this might be, given the size of the town.

It serves smaller towns en route.

Timetable

forrest gump · 25-06-2014 02:55PM

It doesn't make any sense at all especially since it stops in Clara of all places.

coylemj · 25-06-2014 03:01PM

Lapin wrote: »

Just checking train times from Tullamore back to Galway next Saturday and noticed that the 18:30 Heuston - Galway train doesn't stop at the town at all.

Just curious as to why this might be, given the size of the town.

You need to get the Westport train in Tullamore at 19:06 as far as Athlone, then catch the Galway train there at 19:51

Download the Galway timetable to see all of the trains which serve the line to Athlone as it includes the Westport trains.

Lapin · 25-06-2014 03:02PM

Just wondering if it's a misprint as I regularly travel the Dublin - Galway route and can't recall ever not stopping in Tull.

coylemj · 25-06-2014 03:07PM

Lapin wrote: »

Just wondering if it's a misprint as I regularly travel the Dublin - Galway route and can't recall ever not stopping in Tull.

It's not a misprint, the 18:15 Heuston-Westport train stops in Tullamore and bypasses Clara, the 18:30 Heuston-Galway train does the opposite, it makes perfect sense.

There's even trains that bypass Portarlington, the 16:30 Heuston-Galway service for example so no town is immune from being bypassed.

Lapin · 25-06-2014 03:11PM

coylemj wrote: »

You need to get the Westport train in Tullamore at 19:06 as far as Athlone, then catch the Galway train there at 19:51

Download the Galway timetable to see all of the trains which serve the line to Athlone as it includes the Westport trains.

Can't agree Coylemj.

What doesn't make sense is asking passengers travelling from Tullamore to Galway to get on the 19:06 train to Westport, change in Athlone, and then wait 24 minutes for a train that passed through Tullamore anyway.

Not a major gripe by any means, but it seems like a lot of bother to put people through for the sake of a two minute stop.

The timetable I posted shows all trains from Heuston to Athlone.

Lapin · 25-06-2014 03:15PM

coylemj wrote: »

It's not a misprint......

I reckoned as much. But as I said, I don't recall a train ever going straight through Tullamore.

It must have come in with the most recent timetable change.

Anyway, as I said - Just curious.

corktina · 25-06-2014 03:17PM

you can't suit everyone and still stay within the constraints of the single line. Missing out some stops means you can accommodate more people overall

cgcsb · 25-06-2014 03:21PM

the Dublin Galway service is trying to ramain competitive with road, without spending any serious money on new infrastructure, an impossible task you'll agree. Skipping towns is a casualty of that policy.

coylemj · 25-06-2014 03:25PM

Lapin wrote: »

Can't agree Coylemj.

What doesn't make sense is asking passengers travelling from Tullamore to Galway to get on the 19:06 train to Westport, change in Athlone, and then wait 24 minutes for a train that passed through Tullamore anyway.

Not every train can stop in every station. The inconvenience for the few (you) means that the majority get to their destination earlier and the train uses less fuel - win/win for everyone except you.

If you study the Dublin-bound trains for the same time of the week, you'll find that every one of them stops in Tullamore so it's clearly down to passenger traffic patterns - fewer people board westbound trains in Tulllamore.

What's the big attraction in Galway anyway - apart from the hopping nightlife & loads of single women?

Lapin · 25-06-2014 03:28PM

cgcsb wrote: »

the Dublin Galway service is trying to ramain competitive with road, without spending any serious money on new infrastructure, an impossible task you'll agree. Skipping towns is a casualty of that policy.

That's probably a feasable explaination.

Shame they don't have any serious money to spend in order to compete with the motorways.

The railways were one of the great things the Victorians did for us. It's just a pity they didn't lay down double track while they were at it.

Lapin · 25-06-2014 03:35PM

coylemj wrote: »

Not every train can stop in every station. The inconvenience for the few (you) means that the majority get to their destination earlier and the train uses less fuel - win/win for everyone except you.

If you study the Dublin-bound trains for the same time of the week, you'll find that every one of them stops in Tullamore so it's clearly down to passenger traffic patterns - fewer people board westbound trains in Tulllamore.

Ah come on. Don't bring this down to a personal thing. It's not about me at all. In fact it doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever. I just spotted it in the timetable and was just curious about it.

coylemj wrote: »

What's the big attraction in Galway anyway - apart from the hopping nightlife & loads of single women?

ME

cgcsb · 25-06-2014 03:36PM

Actually the Dublin to Galway line used to be completely double track end to end, as can be seen from any of the older over bridges along the line, double the width they need to be for a single line.

The second track was ripped up to save maintenance costs.

SeanW · 25-06-2014 03:36PM

Lapin wrote: »

The railways were one of the great things the Victorians did for us. It's just a pity they didn't lay down double track while they were at it.

Actually they did - the main line to Galway was to Broadstone, it ran Galway > Athlone > Mullingar > Clonsilla > Broadstone (& Connolly).

Double track the whole way.

Lapin · 25-06-2014 03:45PM

SeanW wrote: »

Actually they did - the main line to Galway was to Broadstone, it ran Galway > Athlone > Mullingar > Clonsilla > Broadstone (& Connolly).

Knew that bit. And when Broadstone closed, the Galway trains then terminated at Pearse (Westland Row).

It's a shame Broadstone ever shut down. That whole part of Dublin went into decline since and it's a very central location.

SeanW wrote: »

Double track the whole way.

Never knew that bit. You'd have to question the motives of those who sanctioned the removal of the other line.

Losty Dublin · 25-06-2014 03:47PM

The main reason for some peak hour trains not serving some stations en route is to free up space for passenger who are traveling longer distances while getting them home that bit quicker. While space on board trains wouldn't be as much of an issue on a Saturday, it is an issue on a Mon-Fri.

As to why the 18:30 stops in Monastervan, it may well be that it provides a connection to both the Westport and Galway services, albeit a convuluted one, with Limerick and Tralee via the 16:20 ex Cork.

Losty Dublin · 25-06-2014 03:54PM

Lapin wrote: »

Never knew that bit. You'd have to question the motives of those who sanctioned the removal of the other line.

The Dublin-Galway line was singled in 1926 as an economy measure. Back then the line was owned privately by the Great Southern Railways. The recovered track was used to relay some of the GSR's branch lines around the country.

Portarlington-Athlone was built as a single track though it has space and bridge turrets to accomodate a double line railway bar for the cutting outside Tullamore station. Tullamore station itself was a single platformed station until the early 70's when the bulk of the western traffic was diverted towards the south.

LXFlyer · 25-06-2014 05:01PM

The 18:30 was an additional train added in the last timetable change. It is designed as a semi-fast service. The company is trying to spread peak loadings across several trains and as such stopping patterns vary from train to train.

The Galway route suffers from a number of issues:
1) It's single track all the way from Portarlington to Galway, which means that the more trains that operate, the more trains have to cross one another at passing loops.
The 18:30 has to clear Athlone Midland at the time it does to allow the train from Westport a clear run into Athlone, and it has to pass the 19:20 from Galway at Ballinasloe. Adding an extra stop would delay these trains and have knock-on effects on other trains as well.

2) The route is indirect compared to the M6 - the more stops you have, the less competitive the train is compared to the coaches on Dublin/Galway.

Frankly what is needed is a complete timetable recast out of Heuston in terms of stopping patterns, with the commuter stops taken out of prime Intercity services and reduce pressure on loads on certain trains. The Galway route badly needs an evening peak 2 hour 10 minute service to Galway to balance out with the morning service. That ought to be stopping at Athlone and Athenry only. The evening Westport service should also be non-stop to Athlone, with stopping services feeding into both.

IE are trying to do everything with too few trains, and are diluting the Intercity product, particularly to Galway, Westport and Waterford by giving in to requests for additional stops at commuter stations. This needs to change as part of measures to re-establish the attractiveness of the train as a long distance product.

GerardKeating · 25-06-2014 07:52PM

cgcsb wrote: »

Actually the Dublin to Galway line used to be completely double track end to end, as can be seen from any of the older over bridges along the line, double the width they need to be for a single line.

The second track was ripped up to save maintenance costs.

SeanW wrote: »

Actually they did - the main line to Galway was to Broadstone, it ran Galway > Athlone > Mullingar > Clonsilla > Broadstone (& Connolly).

Double track the whole way.

Not exactly true, It was Double Track Broadstone > Clonsilla > Mullingar > Athlone > Ballinasloe.

Then it was single to Athenry, then double to Oranmore, Single to Lough Atalia and double the last new meters into Galway

efb · 25-06-2014 08:02PM

Monesrtervin and Clara were added after the prov timetable

Jamie2k9 · 26-06-2014 12:53PM

The Galway route badly needs an evening peak 2 hour 10 minute service to Galway to balance out with the morning service. That ought to be stopping at Athlone and Athenry only. The evening Westport service should also be non-stop to Athlone, with stopping services feeding into both.

The 18.30 was that 2h10m service but that didn't go to well and to be honest I believe before they made some changes to the timetable the 18.30 used to have to stop in Tullamore most evenings as the next line section wasn't cleared because of delays.

The 17.20 out of Galway needs to be terminated at Athlone, there would be a 4 hour gap from Galway to Dublin but its the only option if they want the proposed workable timetable which was made in 2013 to have any chance of working. They could advance the 18.15 out of Westport by 30-45 minutes to reduce the gap between Athlone and Dublin as the current set up is (18.15/19.20) towards Dublin are 10-15 minutes apart and serve the same stations. Complete madness when numbers at stations don't justify such a service.

In general I question the need for the 18.30 as it had very low usage (not sure if still the case) and a few years ago the 16.30 to Galway was the almost non stop (2h20m) at the time, first class, seat catering etc.

They should target the 17.30 for this type of service in future as if you look at Cork the 17,00 is the main service so how did they conclude that the 18.30 service would appeal most to customers.

Monesrtervin and Clara were added after the prov timetable

Monestervin was added to waste some time waiting for the delayed 17.20 ex Galway and Clara to do the same because of the 18.15 to Westport.

Banjoxed · 26-06-2014 01:17PM

Lapin wrote: »

That's probably a feasable explaination.

Shame they don't have any serious money to spend in order to compete with the motorways.

The railways were one of the great things the Victorians did for us. It's just a pity they didn't lay down double track while they were at it.

They did for the most part on the original route via Mullingar - it was cheese paring after independence that did for double track on the Galway line. And the Lycrists are ensuring today that Mullingar-Athlone can't be used for its intended purpose.

"So what have the Romans done for us?" comes to mind.

efb · 26-06-2014 01:43PM

The 5.30 6.15 do be full when I'm on them

efb · 26-06-2014 01:44PM

No train from 6.15 to 7.35 to Tullamore is a curse for the commuter. Late in work at all sees you not home till 8.35

LXFlyer · 26-06-2014 02:20PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The 18.30 was that 2h10m service but that didn't go to well and to be honest I believe before they made some changes to the timetable the 18.30 used to have to stop in Tullamore most evenings as the next line section wasn't cleared because of delays.

The 17.20 out of Galway needs to be terminated at Athlone, there would be a 4 hour gap from Galway to Dublin but its the only option if they want the proposed workable timetable which was made in 2013 to have any chance of working. They could advance the 18.15 out of Westport by 30-45 minutes to reduce the gap between Athlone and Dublin as the current set up is (18.15/19.20) towards Dublin are 10-15 minutes apart and serve the same stations. Complete madness when numbers at stations don't justify such a service.

In general I question the need for the 18.30 as it had very low usage (not sure if still the case) and a few years ago the 16.30 to Galway was the almost non stop (2h20m) at the time, first class, seat catering etc.

They should target the 17.30 for this type of service in future as if you look at Cork the 17,00 is the main service so how did they conclude that the 18.30 service would appeal most to customers.

Monestervin was added to waste some time waiting for the delayed 17.20 ex Galway and Clara to do the same because of the 18.15 to Westport.

To correct you - the Monasterevin stop was in the timetable from the start of the 18:30 service. It was not added later, nor did this train ever stop at Tullamore. The only changes to the stopping pattern of this train since it started in January 2013 were adding stops at Clara and Oranmore, along with the sectional running times.

I'm not saying that the 18:30 should be the fast service - in fact I don't think it should be. But there badly needs to be one introduced from Dublin to Galway. The fast train should really be the 16:30. Trying to slot in a fast at 17:30 really would be tricky as the volume of trains dramatically increases.

But added to that there is a need for an extra stopping service to Athlone to feed into that train and fill the consequent gap.

As I've said before a recast of the whole evening service is badly needed.

I wouldn't agree with curtailing the 17:20 ex-Galway - the punctuality issues have diminished significantly since the last timetable change. Sure, it is slower, due to the number of crossings with other trains that it has to make, but it does fill a gap. Four hours would be ridiculous.

Jamie2k9 · 26-06-2014 08:39PM

To correct you - the Monasterevin stop was in the timetable from the start of the 18:30 service. It was not added later, nor did this train ever stop at Tullamore. The only changes to the stopping pattern of this train since it started in January 2013 were adding stops at Clara and Oranmore, along with the sectional running times.

Was not very clear but Monasterevin as a stop is only there to waste a few minutes to allow the 17.20 to cross at Portarlington, They schedule the 18.30 between Heuston and Portarlington for 43 minutes when it could actually do the journey in 36 minutes non stop.

When I said stop at Tullamore it was for signalling reasons and not passenger, probably doses not happen since the changes last July.

I wouldn't agree with curtailing the 17:20 ex-Galway - the punctuality issues have diminished significantly since the last timetable change. Sure, it is slower, due to the number of crossings with other trains that it has to make, but it does fill a gap. Four hours would be ridiculous.

They have improved however 2h35m for most services isn't good. Even the 18.10 peak commuter service from Galway to Athlone takes just short of 90 minutes when all other services take 60.

They have limited options but something has to be done to improve services.

Julius Seizure · 26-06-2014 11:00PM

Waterford lime used to be doubled as far as Carlow, line was ripped up to lay the castlecomer branch I think, closed now. Shame, as Waterford line could really do with it.

While I understand the need for skipping stations, it would be good if connection were planned a bit better. It's fairly awkward changing from Waterford/Galway/Cork now that some stop in New bridge, some in Kildare, and Galway and Cork only stop in Portarlington and Portlaoise respectively. Even if the stopper service connecting them was timed better the amount of changes wouldn't be so bad, but going from Galway>Thurles or Kilkenny on a winters night isn't a nice trip at all

Jamie2k9 · 27-06-2014 03:35AM

Julius Seizure wrote: »

Waterford lime used to be doubled as far as Carlow, line was ripped up to lay the castlecomer branch I think, closed now. Shame, as Waterford line could really do with it.

While I understand the need for skipping stations, it would be good if connection were planned a bit better. It's fairly awkward changing from Waterford/Galway/Cork now that some stop in New bridge, some in Kildare, and Galway and Cork only stop in Portarlington and Portlaoise respectively. Even if the stopper service connecting them was timed better the amount of changes wouldn't be so bad, but going from Galway>Thurles or Kilkenny on a winters night isn't a nice trip at all

Waterford does not need it doubled, while it would be good its not necessary. The whole line to Thomastown could be doubled with minimum cost almost all bridges allow for double tracking. Would prefer to see changes to allow increased speeds.

The current connections work very well and there is really no improvement to be made as its an hourly service which meets the 3 main routes at 3 different stations for the majority of services. Remember the majority of rail traffic is point to point and this will be priority.

end of the road · 27-06-2014 07:26PM

i don't know why athlone isn't the first and last stop between dublin for galway/westport services, same with kildare for waterford services, and port arlington for cork/limerick/tralee services. there are to many stops on intercity services and seeing as there is a portlaoise long distance commuter using intercity trains rather then commuter trains may as well extend them

Julius Seizure · 27-06-2014 07:58PM

What about stations between Portarlington and Athlone? They won't be covered by the Portlaoise commuter.

I'd like to see all Cork and Galway trains stopping at Portarlington, giving them a connection. Limerick and Tralee can fill in the express trains that Portlaoise will miss out if Cork was moved to Portarlington stops. Ideally Waterford would only stop at Kildare but I don't think Newbridge would be happy at that

end of the road · 27-06-2014 08:24PM

Julius Seizure wrote: »

What about stations between Portarlington and Athlone? They won't be covered by the Portlaoise commuter.

extend the portlaoise train to athlone, its using intercity stock anyway.

Julius Seizure wrote: »

I'd like to see all Cork and Galway trains stopping at Portarlington, giving them a connection. Limerick and Tralee can fill in the express trains that Portlaoise will miss out if Cork was moved to Portarlington stops.

not tralee, that journey is rather long, direct limerick trains though would be an idea to fill in those gaps.

Julius Seizure wrote: »

Ideally Waterford would only stop at Kildare but I don't think Newbridge would be happy at that

thats just tough for them, they have loads of trains, intercity and other long distance journey times need improving and as lines can't be brought up to a higher speed then some juggling to remove well served stops from intercity services should be considered, same with rosslare services, first stop should be bray, sligo services could probably continue stopping at maynooth as i don't think longford commuter services are or will ever be frequent enough

LXFlyer · 27-06-2014 09:24PM

The logical service patterns are:

Stopping train to Portlaoise
Dublin/Waterford - First stop Kildare
Dublin/Galway & Mayo - First stop Portarlington
Dublin/Cork - First stop Portlaoise

In that order, and the opposite order in reverse.

At peak times there needs at least one express to Galway and Westport that run non-stop to Athlone, with a stopping service ahead of them, the Cork trains can take connections out of the Limericks at Thurles, and there should be one Waterford express similar to the morning service with a first stop at Athy.

That way the hourly Portlaoise service feeds the intermediate stations.

But trying to do that and ensure trains pass one another at loops without long waits is no simple task.

Talking about the Dublin/Limerick stopping trains is a bit irrelevant - there are only 3 in either direction, to Dublin in the morning peak and to Limerick in the evening. They fill the gaps when the Dublin/Cork expresses operate.

end of the road · 27-06-2014 09:56PM

lxflyer wrote: »

The logical service patterns are

Stopping train to Portlaoise
Dublin/Waterford - First stop Kildare
Dublin/Galway & Mayo - First stop Portarlington
Dublin/Cork - First stop Portlaoise
In that order, and the opposite order in reverse.[/QUOTE]

so much of what i suggested is all ready done, thats good

lxflyer wrote: »

At peak times there needs at least one express to Galway and Westport that run non-stop to Athlone, with a stopping service ahead of them

i do think all galway/westport services should run non stop to athlone, galway because its an intercity service and really needs to be sped up as much as possible with current infrastructure, westport because its a long journey, portlaoise then extended to athlone.

lxflyer wrote: »

the Cork trains can take connections out of the Limericks at Thurles

wouldn't LJ be better? the reason being cork really should be a non stop service to at least mallow, maybe charleville actually.

lxflyer wrote: »

+there should be one Waterford express similar to the morning service with a first stop at Athy.

i'd probably put kildare as the first stop

lxflyer wrote: »

Talking about the Dublin/Limerick stopping trains is a bit irrelevant - there are only 3 in either direction, to Dublin in the morning peak and to Limerick in the evening. They fill the gaps when the Dublin/Cork expresses operate.

my post meant to suggest the return of direct limericks to fill up the gaps from portarlington to lj to allow cork to be non stop to mallow or charleville, should have made that clear, i really do think all this is a good idea though, we can't improve the line speeds as we don't have the funding sadly but these may help

Jamie2k9 · 27-06-2014 11:18PM

Ideally Waterford would only stop at Kildare but I don't think Newbridge would be happy at that

Only 4 trains stop in Newbridge and the main reason for these 4 is the large numbers traveling to Carlow IT. Out of all of them my only issue is with the 07.10 service.

It's only a matter of time before the 17.35 goes non stop to Athy so they can cut down capacity.

Why doesn't the 18:30 serve Tullamore?

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