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Legal recognition in the South of Ireland for a marriage in the North of Ireland.

  • 02-02-2015 02:27PM
    #1
    BigAl81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭


    Hey guys,

    Got engaged over xmas and plan to get married at the end of this year in the north of Ireland (yay!)

    I am Irish and live in Dublin and herself is from up North.

    From Citizens Information Website...

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/getting_married_abroad.html
    "For example, a church marriage abroad is usually a purely religious ceremony with no legal effect. Because it is not recognised in law in the country in which it takes place, it cannot be regarded as a legal marriage in Ireland. This is the case even though a marriage in the same church or denomination in Ireland can be legally binding"

    My hope is for a civil ceremony, but to get the date we want we may have an "open minded minister" perform an almost civil type wedding, though legally it would be classed as a religious wedding.

    So my question is, given the info on Citizens Info website I pasted above, has anyone been married up north, and if so, did you have to get "legally married" down south to get it all officially recognised here afterwards?

    Citizens info website also say "Your foreign marriage certificate will usually be accepted for official purposes in Ireland" so its all a bit confusing.

    Cheers,
    Alan.

    Ps: I will contact the various people suggested on the Citizens Info site and report back here when I get a reply.


Comments

  • #2
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    If it's legally recognised in Country A then it'll be legally recognised in Country B...


  • #3
    username000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭username000


    The official recognition is that the Republic of Ireland recognises any civil marriages that took place in another country (that are also recognised as legal here) so long as you have a marriage certificate (which is a legal document) to back it up.

    I dont understand what you mean by an "almost civil type wedding". If all you are getting done is a religious ceremony then you are not legally married at all, anywhere.

    The foreign marriage certificate is the legal document that is recognised here - it is the document from the CIVIL ceremony, not the religious one.


  • #4
    username000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭username000


    tinkerbell wrote: »
    If it's legally recognised in Country A then it'll be legally recognised in Country B...

    Unless country B doesnt recognise certain types of marriages - for example a legal civil gay marriage from France (for example) would not be recognised as a legal marriage in Ireland although you may be accorded civil partnership rights.


  • #5
    The_Captain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭The_Captain


    If you're legally married in the North, as in if you sign the register and have it witnessed and all that jazz; then your marriage will be accepted in the republic.

    If you aren't legally married in the UK (ie if it's only a ceremony with no official registration/doesn't produce a marriage cert), then the government here won't recognise the marriage.


  • #6
    Buona Fortuna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Buona Fortuna


    Following (or maybe part way) the religious ceremony there's usually a civil ceremony. Which pretty amounts to signing and witnessing the marriage register.

    If you get a marriage cerificate (like a birth cert) you're married. If you don't get one (and its not to follow) just go along to the register office up North and register the marriage.


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  • #7
    BigAl81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭BigAl81


    Hey,

    Thanks for all the (very quick!) replies guys!

    Just to clarify our story, the registry office is closed for the day we're aiming for, so another option is for a minister to come to our venue (a barn!) and marry us. Some of the ministers are described as relaxed and go very light on the god jazz and you get an ceremony that is close to a civil one, but would be registered as a religious wedding.

    We're in contact with a few ministers and they have all included government documents to send to a registrar so looks like fully registered up north should be recognised down here.

    I'll mail the relevant authorities and post back when I hear from them.

    Thanks,
    Al.


  • #8
    username000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭username000


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    Some of the ministers are described as relaxed and go very light on the god jazz and you get an ceremony that is close to a civil one, but would be registered as a religious wedding.

    This doesnt really make sense - a religious wedding is not registered legally.

    I think you are confusing the ability of priests in the republic who are also authorised by the HSE to carry out the civil part of the marriage ceremony at the same time as they do the religious ceremony.

    You need to find out if your minister is a registrar and legally able to perform a civil ceremony.


  • #9
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,278 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It's not the case, in Northern Ireland (or any other part of the UK) that people who have a religious wedding need to have a distinct civil wedding in order for their marriage to be legally recognised.

    UK law lays down the criteria for recognition of a marriage and, if a marriage celebrated in a religious ceremony meets those criteria the law recognises it as valid and it can (and, indeed, must) be registered. Most ministers of religion are fully aware of what the requirements for recognition are, and they will normally refuse to celebrate a wedding that doesn't meet them (because they don't want religious weddings to go unrecognised by the state).

    So, bottom line: if you get married by a minister of religion in Northern Ireland, that marriage is almost certainly fully legal and can and must be registered. If you fail to register it, you are committing an offence (and so, I think, is the minister.) Note that if you do fail to register, you are still legally married; you'll just have some difficulty proving it, because you won't have a marriage certificate.

    It's theoretically possible in some circumstances for a minister to celebrate a marriage that isn't legally recognised, but it's rare and you can expect your minister to point out to you if those circumstances apply to your case. I'd be very surprised if they did.

    Will the marriage be recognised in the Republic? The general rule in Irish law is that, if a marriage is valid according to the law of the place in which it is celebrated, then it is recognised in Ireland. The only exception would be for a marriage that couldn't be valid in Ireland - e.g. a same-sex marriage (for the moment) or a marriage where one or both of the spouses is under the minimum age of marriage (in Irish law).

    Assuming you and your partner are of opposite sexes and are both of full age, if you enter into a legally valid marriage in Northern Ireland that marriage is recognised as a valid marriage in the Republic. You will need to register your marriage in NI (because NI law requires it) and when it is registered you will get an NI marriage certificate. You do not need to re-register that in the Republic; any time when you need to demonstrate your married status for official or bureaucratic purposes you simply produce your NI marriage certificate.

    Basically, the procedure for marrying is not hugely different from the Republic.

    1. You need to give the registrar notice of your intention to marry. The minimum notice that you must give is 14 days (as opposed to three months in the Republic) but in practice eight or ten weeks is recommended. The registrar issues you with a document called a "marriage schedule".

    2. You then get married in either a religious or civil ceremony. Your celebrant, whether civil or religious, will want to know that you have obtained a marriage schedule, and will want to see it. A civil registrar will certainly, and a religious celebrant will almost certainly, decline to marry you until you produce a marriage schedule. You need to celebrate your marriage within 12 months, or else start the entire process again.

    3. Once the ceremony has been completed you are legally married and you are obliged to register your marriage. The "marriage schedule" has to be filled out, signed and dated, and then returned for registration. If you are married in a civil ceremony the registrar who marries you will take care of filling out and returning the marriage schedule; if in a religious ceremony the obligation to do this is yours, but in practice the minister may attend to it. Once the details of your marriage have been copied from the marriage schedule into the Register of Marriages your marriage has been registered, and you can get a marriage certificate.


  • #10
    Gatica
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭Gatica


    Can I point out that if you are divorced first and your divorce is not recognised in Ireland, then neither will your new marriage, even if it's recognised in the country or marriage...


  • #11
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,278 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Gatica wrote: »
    Can I point out that if you are divorced first and your divorce is not recognized in Ireland, then neither will your new marriage, even if it's recognized in the country or marriage...
    Yes. If your marriage is such that it wouldn't be recognized if celebrated in Ireland (one of you is under age, one of you is already married to someone else, you are the same sex) then it won't be recognized if celebrated abroad, either.

    But, in answer to the OP's question, if the NI marriage is one which will be recognized in the Republic, then it is recognized without the need for any further process or procedure. It's not necessary to register the marriage in the Republic, or notify the Republic registrar that it has happened, or anything of the kind. It is recognized simply because it has happened, and the only document the OP will need to show that they are married is the marriage certificate issued by the NI authorities.


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