Private Pilots Licence

72hundred · 18-04-2015 5:03pm #1

Hi,

Looking for some advice in relation to getting a PPL and how and even if a good idea!

Basically some background; I've a long interest in aviation and associated fields. I've some PC flight sim's etc. Had an hour long session in NFC at Weston airport recently, my first, and really really enjoyed it. So much so it's something that I think I would really enjoy getting better at. So spoke briefly with the guys at NFC about the PPL. The idea of it is interesting to work towards something that's an achievement and to have a lot of fun a long the way. My interest would be that of a past time and not for a career.

I'm interested to hear if there's any specific advice out there, is the NFC a good place to do it. I'm based in Dublin, west Dublin specially, geographically Weston would suit. Also looking at their documents €13k would be the minimum, but I imagine €15 could be well on the horizon. And would it be practical to space this out over 3 or 4 years?

EDIT: EASA LPL (Leisure Pilot Licence) - does that exist? An option?

Many thanks.

logie101 · 18-04-2015 8:05pm

Join a flying club and do your PPL. Cheaper and more fun.

72hundred · 19-04-2015 7:26am

Thanks.

Any one in particular? Or where should I look?

I was just reading http://www.airportflyingclub.com/airportflyingclub.php?page=faq

Q: I am interested in learning to fly. Do you train pilots?

A: Unfortunately we are not in a position to offer ab-initio training for pilots

martinsvi · 19-04-2015 10:56am

Start with this list - https://www.iaa.ie/registered-training-facilities

you want your club/school to be a registered training organization.

Also, if you don't plan a career in aviation, I think you'd be far better off doing microlight PPL rather than full PPL(A). Microlights are easier to operate, they take less hours to learn, generally a lesson is cheaper in microlight by some 25% or more, and performance wise some of them are far better than your good aul C152.. So instead of paying some 13-15k for training, you should be able to get a PPL(m) for just around 7k

EASA LPL is not an option in Ireland, it's not implemented yet and there's no signs that it will ever be

dragging studies for 3-4 years is not a wise idea, I would recommend to knock it off under 2 years, however - studying for 3-4 years is probably better than not flying at all. Just remember that PPL theory exams have a 2 year expiry period so make sure to plan everything out

Alaba320 · 19-04-2015 12:14pm

NFC are the best that there is in Weston, so if you're hell bent on Weston, then I'd suggest going with them.

If I had my way again, I would have gone to the U.S for my PPL. You can do an EASA PPL in some flight schools in America, Florida is the hub of flight training in the US so that's the best place to start your search if you were interested. An EASA PPL in Florida including accommodation was $6,500 when I last looked into it. An FAA PPL can be got for as little as $4,500, but I'm not sure what (if any) sort of conversion or paperwork is need to allow you to use it in Ireland. It will take about 2-3 weeks in Florida if you get the good weather.

The U.S. route might not suit you and as far as I know there aren't many clubs nowadays that offer ppl training, so NFC in Weston is probably the next best thing, but their prices are ridiculous. Good luck and enjoy

Xpro · 19-04-2015 12:40pm

Hi, my 2p from my experience.

If I could go back I would have done things differently, but I focused on commercial career so my route worked out to be expensive.

PPL is a nice achievement for many people and its great to be able to fly, but nowadays to fly an aircraft a PPL is not necessary.

Two things to think about:

1.The cost of obtaining a PPL licence
2. What happens after you get your PPL.

Flying in Ireland is an expensive hobby, only affordable to those with great jobs, and loads of money in your account.
Granted, some clubs are cheaper, but still margin is so small.

If you don't want a professional career in flying, a microlight licence ticks all the boxes.

They are cheap to run, cheap to operate,etc.

You could join NMAI and fly microlight for as little as 20€ to 80€ per hour.

And its great fun, some microlight nowadays are so advanced and fast that would put a light SEP to shame.

Also, as other people mentioned, yes joining a club is an option but it will take some time before you get your PPL.

Airport flying club currently has one active instructor which is only available part time so go figure. Friend of mine is still a student pilot in AFC since 2011..:eek:

Good luck

martinsvi · 19-04-2015 12:40pm

prices in Florida have gone up, EASA PPL now will set you back 9k USD, and nowadays that's nearly 9k EUR

72hundred · 19-04-2015 3:38pm

Thanks all for the info. Food for thought.

rn.andyb · 20-04-2015 6:13pm

Hi 72hundred,

EDIT: EASA LPL (Leisure Pilot Licence) - does that exist? An option?

martinsvi wrote: »

EASA LPL is not an option in Ireland, it's not implemented yet and there's no signs that it will ever be

I am in a very similar position to yourself. I have had a lifelong interest in aviation and recently set out on the PPL journey.

Unfortunately, the eyesight in my left eye does not meet the PPL medical requirements. My AME referred me to Dr. Kevin Tempany at the Vista Eye Clinic (Eye specialist & AME) who confirmed that I do not meet the PPL requirements. However, Dr. Tempany informed me that the EASA LAPL (Light Aircraft Pilot License) had just recently been introduced in Ireland. The LAPL medical requirements are not as strict, however it does come with some tight flying restrictions.

The LAPL license has a minimum 30 hours training (PPL is 45) and is limited to single engine VFR (no multi-engine rating, no instrument rating), max three passengers (4 souls on board), with a MTOW of 2 tonnes.

While those limitations do mean that you cannot make a career out of flying (I believe the commercial license requires IFR), it does mean you can fly as a hobby. Night ratings and Aerobatic ratings are still allowed under LAPL.

I spoke with my instructor at the NFC, he was familiar with the LAPL and I am now 6 hours into my training. The Pooleys books are also LAPL syllabus compliant.

There are a few scattered places from which you can piece together information:

- iaa.ie/pilots - document relates to regulation changes as of "8th April 2012".

6. A new licence known as the Light Aircraft Pilots Licence (LAPL) came into effect on 8th April for those pilots wishing to fly leisure aircraft only. A less demanding medical standard applies to this licence.

- While the above IAA website shows 2012, I do see on the ILAS website (ilas.ie/pilot-licensing-news-some-of-the-fog-clears):

While the LAPL will not be available for issue in Ireland until 2015, LAPLs issued elsewhere are acceptable now.

- Some further information on the CAA UK website: caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2701&pagetype=90&pageid=15222

- more importantly, a lot more information in the EASAs "AMC to Part FCL" at (HTTPS)easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/AMC%20and%20GM%20to%20Part-FCL.pdf
Note thats a https: // address, the forum will not let me post the full address so just piece it together yourself.

@martinsvi, can you provide more information relating to your quote above stating that LPL will not be available in Ireland? I havn't looked into it too much but it appears the LPL might just be the LAPL under another name?

@72hundred, might be worth calling the NFC (or another school) and asking about the LAPL.

Lastly, I should point out that while Dr. Tempany cleared my eyesight forms for LAPL, I have yet to go back to my AME to wrap everything up. I must organize that this week.

Kind Regards,
Andrew

martinsvi · 20-04-2015 7:31pm

Andrew, LPL is a previous name for a licence now known as LAPL, so yes, you might say it's the same thing. I did not say that LPL/LAPL will not be implemented, I said that there's no signs of it. EASA introduced LPL back in 2008 and since then only very few authorities actually implemented it, so even last year it seemed that it will never come into existence here in Ireland. However, what you've written there is great news and apparently things have moved on since I last read about them and I'm glad you came here to sort things out

rn.andyb · 20-04-2015 9:54pm

martinsvi wrote: »

Andrew, LPL is a previous name for a licence now known as LAPL, so yes, you might say it's the same thing. I did not say that LPL/LAPL will not be implemented, I said that there's no signs of it. EASA introduced LPL back in 2008 and since then only very few authorities actually implemented it, so even last year it seemed that it will never come into existence here in Ireland. However, what you've written there is great news and apparently things have moved on since I last read about them and I'm glad you came here to sort things out

Glad its the same thing. I have seen many posts on aviation forums discussing the LPL, always assumed it was the same without looking it up.

I asked because I have seen posts on other sites regarding the LAPL not being available/implemented. The ILAS website mentions 2015 but doesn't give more accurate dates, and I also read on the flyinginireland forums that the LAPL was not yet available.

I really hope there is not some document / report that I missed about it not yet being available, but I doubt that's the case as my instructor knew what I was talking about when I mentioned my eyesight limiting me to LAPL.

Anyway, my posts are based on about eight weeks of experience in GA, and only 6 hours logged, so take them with a pinch of salt. I suggest that anyone interested in the LAPL should reach out to the NFC for further details. If I was completely wrong about everything I have said, it wouldn't be the first time.

@72hundred, let us know what you decide and how you get on.

Kind Regards,
Andrew

martinsvi · 20-04-2015 10:37pm

as far as I know, the last hurdle was getting some schools in Ireland approved as ATO and as far as I can tell from IAA web site, NFC have made in the list, so you are right! These are all very fresh developments, so it doesn't matter what people on the forums say, whenever in doubt, contact the IAA.. they're the ones issuing the licenses, so they get the last word!

but if we get back to the topic, is there any indication that LAPL is cheaper than PPL(A)? If you don't account for 30 vs 45 minimum hours, it's the same price, isn't it? So if you're looking for a cheap way of flying, microlights are still a better option, I believe

SCOL · 24-04-2015 1:38pm

I done a PPL (M) up in the North 20 years ago !!! Weather was a bit of a problem
If I was to do it again I'd get a few HRS under your belt then go to spain/Portugal do a 2 week course and hopefully get solo and maybe log a few solo HRS come home and finish it off or see how thing are going over there and finish it over there come home with a CAA NPPL.

72hundred · 27-04-2015 4:40pm

Many thanks all for the new info. Hugely interesting information from rn.andyb and something that I will look into and subsequently post back here.

72hundred · 30-10-2015 10:41pm

Posting back now - just too expensive! My plan currently is to hold out in he hopes prices maybe be better in future.

pepe the prawn · 30-10-2015 11:23pm

72hundred wrote: »

Posting back now - just too expensive! My plan currently is to hold out in he hopes prices maybe be better in future.

I'd imagine that prices will only go one way, and that's up.

smurfjed · 30-10-2015 11:24pm

My plan currently is to hold out in he hopes prices maybe be better in future.

This is a false hope, aviation prices NEVER go down!

72hundred · 30-10-2015 11:33pm

Ha I imagined that might be the response. Currently I'm in Dublin and plans are to move else where. I've heard that prices are better outside Dublin so hence, subjective and relative to me - prices might go down.

b757 · 30-10-2015 11:38pm

72hundred wrote: »

Ha I imagined that might be the response. Currently I'm in Dublin and plans are to move else where. I've heard that prices are better outside Dublin so hence, subjective and relative to me - prices might go down.

The club in the "Sunny Southeast" is very affordable, compared to others around the country.

Irish Steve · 31-10-2015 2:13am

Without wishing to rain on your parade, before you spend any more money, whichever route you are going to go down, make sure you can pass the relevant medical by getting it, as without the medical, you will be flying nothing, even if you have paid for some lessons.

What could be even worse would be to spend money on lessons and only then discover that you're not going to fly solo, so it's important that you make sure before you do any more. The standard for the PPL is not overly restrictive, but people do fail it for all sorts of reasons, the most common probably being eyesight related. The only way to be sure is to get it.

rustynutz · 31-10-2015 7:20am

I'm seriously considering continuing getting my my PPL(M) I have about 15 hours done, had to stop 2 years ago due to moving abroad with work, but I'm back now and would like to keep it up, I have passed the medical so no issues there, my question is, where is the best school to learn?
I'm based in the west but am willing to travel, I know the weather restricted progress last time so would also love to hear from someone who done the training abroad, what the story was with using / converting their license for use in Ireland afterwards?

outsidein98 · 31-10-2015 11:33am

72hundred wrote: »

Posting back now - just too expensive! My plan currently is to hold out in he hopes prices maybe be better in future.

Prices won't drop. Flying was always expensive. That won't change. Your plan should be to hold out until you are better off and can afford to fly. That's a good ambition in itself!

martinsvi · 31-10-2015 8:14pm

72hundred wrote: »

Posting back now - just too expensive! My plan currently is to hold out in he hopes prices maybe be better in future.

as others have said, no it won't get any cheaper. I know it seems expensive at first, I was holding back myself for years. I was having my annual holidays, I've probably changed 3 cars in 10 years and what not.. The thing about life is we probably won't remember our 3rd car, we won't remember that one time we went to Spain and did nothing and we certainly wont remember the very latest iPhone 6s.. what stays with us forever is achievements and experiences that we not only pay by our hard earned cash, but with sweat, brain-cells and blood. Sometimes all you need to do is re-evaluate your priorities and values and money doesn't seem to be an issue anymore

Stovepipe · 03-11-2015 3:24am

Anyone considering a PPl should visit Limetree and see how much flying is going on there.They are always active and are a great bunch to be with. Microlighters have a great social network and are always up for flying and having a good time and there are literally hundreds of airstrips out there.Highly recommended!

Private Pilots Licence

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