Are there many Sheep only farms?

Dickie10 · 22-04-2015 09:39AM #1

Just wondering how many people run exclusively sheep farms?
i heard or read about a man in West Meath around Kilbeggan area who is all sheep now and said that the price of outgoiings is cheaper.

How many sheep could one carry on a 115 acre farm of good, dry land.?
A few things i wondered about,;
1) A good set up handling facilites is crucial.
2)Fencing crucial, no boundary can be weak.
3)fodder, surely without cattle/cows very little silage would have to be made, just more hay.
4)how much would a ewe cost over a year.
5)Housing, need plenty of straw bedded sheds with good lighting.
6)Price, surely you would need at least 100 euro a lamb to justify this system?
7)Breed of ewes and rams, id be thinking that you would have to get the most efficent ewe possible with a ram that does a specific job. this year i bought a Hampshire ram because i wanted early feb lambs gone before the window of May prices closed and there on track fairly well. do many lads still go for U grade lambs even if not getting paid for them? surely quick weight conversion is more important, if thats what you get paid on.?

is there a future in beef cattle? i hear its very hard to make anything in sucklers and prices of cattle are mad to buy so would any beef system beat sheep at the minute?

sorry a few things in there but just put it up for discusssion, slow day in work!

rangler1 · 22-04-2015 10:02AM

Dickie10 wrote: »

Just wondering how many people run exclusively sheep farms?
i heard or read about a man in West Meath around Kilbeggan area who is all sheep now and said that the price of outgoiings is cheaper.

How many sheep could one carry on a 115 acre farm of good, dry land.?
A few things i wondered about,;
1) A good set up handling facilites is crucial.
2)Fencing crucial, no boundary can be weak.
3)fodder, surely without cattle/cows very little silage would have to be made, just more hay.
4)how much would a ewe cost over a year.
5)Housing, need plenty of straw bedded sheds with good lighting.
6)Price, surely you would need at least 100 euro a lamb to justify this system?
7)Breed of ewes and rams, id be thinking that you would have to get the most efficent ewe possible with a ram that does a specific job. this year i bought a Hampshire ram because i wanted early feb lambs gone before the window of May prices closed and there on track fairly well. do many lads still go for U grade lambs even if not getting paid for them? surely quick weight conversion is more important, if thats what you get paid on.?

is there a future in beef cattle? i hear its very hard to make anything in sucklers and prices of cattle are mad to buy so would any beef system beat sheep at the minute?

sorry a few things in there but just put it up for discusssion, slow day in work!

I'll just give you a quick guide here, I'm all sheep, march/april lambing 550 ewes on 120ac,
It's costing me (low fixed costs here) about the price of a lamb to keep a ewe for the year so your profit depends on how much over the one lamb to the ewe you get.
As you say it's vital that you're set up as there's a lot of work if you're not.
I live around where you say,so someone could have been referring to me

Cran · 22-04-2015 10:18AM

Dickie10 wrote: »

Just wondering how many people run exclusively sheep farms?
i heard or read about a man in West Meath around Kilbeggan area who is all sheep now and said that the price of outgoiings is cheaper.

How many sheep could one carry on a 115 acre farm of good, dry land.?
A few things i wondered about,;
1) A good set up handling facilites is crucial.
2)Fencing crucial, no boundary can be weak.
3)fodder, surely without cattle/cows very little silage would have to be made, just more hay.
4)how much would a ewe cost over a year.
5)Housing, need plenty of straw bedded sheds with good lighting.
6)Price, surely you would need at least 100 euro a lamb to justify this system?
7)Breed of ewes and rams, id be thinking that you would have to get the most efficent ewe possible with a ram that does a specific job. this year i bought a Hampshire ram because i wanted early feb lambs gone before the window of May prices closed and there on track fairly well. do many lads still go for U grade lambs even if not getting paid for them? surely quick weight conversion is more important, if thats what you get paid on.?

is there a future in beef cattle? i hear its very hard to make anything in sucklers and prices of cattle are mad to buy so would any beef system beat sheep at the minute?

sorry a few things in there but just put it up for discusssion, slow day in work!

All sheep here as well, different set-up to Rangler as I'm part time. Run 440 ewes with father still involved on my farm all outdoors, manage another 400 ewes for uncle on similar sized farm same set-up. All lambed down in April with aim of 1/2 sold from grass before concentrates introduced end October to finish rest. If I was full time approach would be different....

Set-up is key in an all sheep system: - good fencing, good handling facilities, good dog, understanding sheep ailments and prevention, proper breeds for system and grass management is different that mixed set-ups.

Connemara Farmer · 22-04-2015 10:29AM

Cran wrote: »

All sheep here as well, different set-up to Rangler as I'm part time. Run 440 ewes with father still involved on my farm all outdoors, manage another 400 ewes for uncle on similar sized farm same set-up. All lambed down in April with aim of 1/2 sold from grass before concentrates introduced end October to finish rest. If I was full time approach would be different....

Set-up is key in an all sheep system: - good fencing, good handling facilities, good dog, understanding sheep ailments and prevention, proper breeds for system and grass management is different that mixed set-ups.

In particular, preventing problems saves endless hassle with sheep. "Firefighting" problems cane take a lot of time and money, at busy times it's the time that's the killer.

Dickie10 · 22-04-2015 11:55AM

would u make much silage or hay? do u winter the ewes inside from dec?

rangler1 · 22-04-2015 12:13PM

Cran wrote: »

All sheep here as well, different set-up to Rangler as I'm part time. Run 440 ewes with father still involved on my farm all outdoors, manage another 400 ewes for uncle on similar sized farm same set-up. All lambed down in April with aim of 1/2 sold from grass before concentrates introduced end October to finish rest. If I was full time approach would be different....

Set-up is key in an all sheep system: - good fencing, good handling facilities, good dog, understanding sheep ailments and prevention, proper breeds for system and grass management is different that mixed set-ups.

No way could I out winter, land is very heavy here, tried to outwinter half of them for a few years resulting in the good ryegrasses disappearing out of my swards on about a third of the farm, use that area now for dry ewes and hoggets rearing singles......I suppose it depends on your stocking rate.
Sheep would've destroyed themselves and the whole farm the year I built the tunnel only I got them off the land....I know we don't get that every year but stocking rate has gone up a lot since I got to rest all the land in the winter

Cran · 22-04-2015 12:55PM

rangler1 wrote: »

No way could I out winter, land is very heavy here, tried to outwinter half of them for a few years resulting in the good ryegrasses disappearing out of my swards on about a third of the farm, use that area now for dry ewes and hoggets rearing singles......I suppose it depends on your stocking rate.
Sheep would've destroyed themselves and the whole farm the year I built the tunnel only I got them off the land....I know we don't get that every year but stocking rate has gone up a lot since I got to rest all the land in the winter

Stocking rate is low here and lucky the soil type and drainage we have here. Can travel most of farm all year in the jeep, only once in past memory was most getting tricky with jeep and no trailer. Going to out winter ewes on swedes next year with grass run back to give remainder of farm a good break, normally do close 30% by December though.
Being part time just couldnt see myself housing ewes, if went full time would up numbers and house 1/2 at Christmas or so and lamb them earlier than April leaving other half in current set-up.

ulleJ1 · 22-04-2015 08:31PM

There's a man in north leitrim with 4000 ewes fact!
Now that's what you call a sheep farmer,
must be the biggest in the country,
anyone know of anyone bigger?

foxylock · 23-04-2015 12:25AM

ulleJ1 wrote: »

There's a man in north leitrim with 4000 ewes fact!
Now that's what you call a sheep farmer,
must be the biggest in the country,
anyone know of anyone bigger?

There's a lad in Tipp with 4001!!

ulleJ1 · 23-04-2015 02:35PM

Ha ha! , must be no one out there that comes close to them numbers so, the silence says it all!

MayoAreMagic · 23-04-2015 03:42PM

I didn't realise it was a competition...

What percentage losses does he have?

orm0nd · 23-04-2015 04:14PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

Just wondering how many people run exclusively sheep farms?
i heard or read about a man in West Meath around Kilbeggan area who is all sheep now and said that the price of outgoiings is cheaper.

How many sheep could one carry on a 115 acre farm of good, dry land.?
A few things i wondered about,;
1) A good set up handling facilites is crucial.
2)Fencing crucial, no boundary can be weak.
3)fodder, surely without cattle/cows very little silage would have to be made, just more hay.
4)how much would a ewe cost over a year.
5)Housing, need plenty of straw bedded sheds with good lighting.
6)Price, surely you would need at least 100 euro a lamb to justify this system?
7)Breed of ewes and rams, id be thinking that you would have to get the most efficent ewe possible with a ram that does a specific job. this year i bought a Hampshire ram because i wanted early feb lambs gone before the window of May prices closed and there on track fairly well. do many lads still go for U grade lambs even if not getting paid for them? surely quick weight conversion is more important, if thats what you get paid on.?

is there a future in beef cattle? i hear its very hard to make anything in sucklers and prices of cattle are mad to buy so would any beef system beat sheep at the minute?

sorry a few things in there but just put it up for discusssion, slow day in work!

not full time sheep , but just for your info

killed some hampshire lambs on monday they averaged about 48.5% K.O
and all killed over 19kgs with just 2 over weight (20 kgs)

mostly r's ....the u's coming from the ones pushing the weight limit and the couple that were over , all the bunch were fat score 3

i sell flat rate so the grades don't matter that much

ulleJ1 · 23-04-2015 05:10PM

Its a competition to make money, same as everyone in every walk of life.
He would loose more than most men would have in total but to farm them numbers year in year out the last 30 odd years is a serious achievement.
He actually takes better care of his flock than most small flock owners in our area so id say he looses about 5 to10 lambs in every hundred during the lambing. After that losses are very minimal. He would be as good as a vet with his experience, probably seen every scenario possible at this stage.
He'd be well known about the bangor area as a lot of his sheep were initially purchased there.

rangler1 · 23-04-2015 05:21PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I didn't realise it was a competition...

What percentage losses does he have?

I know there's days it feels like I've 5000

ulleJ1 · 23-04-2015 05:55PM

Same as that the day isn't half long enough .... but prevention is better than cure, Ive made a lot of mistakes and every year is a learning curve... I think correct management is vital to making the system work, we can put huge pressure on ourselves by taking the wrong options... sheep farming managed properly and its as easy looking after 100 ewes as it is looking after 10

ganmo · 23-04-2015 06:38PM

ulleJ1 wrote: »

Same as that the day isn't half long enough .... but prevention is better than cure, Ive made a lot of mistakes and every year is a learning curve... I think correct management is vital to making the system work, we can put huge pressure on ourselves by taking the wrong options... sheep farming managed properly and its as easy looking after 100 ewes as it is looking after 10

As the phrase goes 20 is as much bother as 200

Green farmer · 23-04-2015 10:14PM

It's down to how well your facilities are as well. I bet the guy lambing his 50 ewes in a cold damp shed, with penning made of timber pallets tied together with baling twine, and water supply consists of buckets of water around the place works as hard as the guy in a purpose built shed with of 500 ewes on sheep slats, fed by driving a tractor up a central passage firing food out of a mixer ???
I've been the first guy but hopefully some day I'll be the second guy. The better the facilities you can get, the easier sheep should be. That's the theory anyway .

ulleJ1 · 23-04-2015 10:33PM

Good land and April lambing would be the two most important factors in my opinion, survival rates of ewe and lamb are considerably increased in the better weather conditions. I don't think sheep should be indoors at all if possible, so much healthier and happier outside as long as they have a bite to eat. I think the figure I heard was 95% of ewes will lamb by themselves if fed sufficiently.
Definitely decent handling unit facilities is a must, takes the pressure of the farmer and the sheep.
Small things as a race and sorting gate is more than half the battle

MayoAreMagic · 24-04-2015 12:03PM

ulleJ1 wrote: »

Its a competition to make money, same as everyone in every walk of life.
He would loose more than most men would have in total but to farm them numbers year in year out the last 30 odd years is a serious achievement.
He actually takes better care of his flock than most small flock owners in our area so id say he looses about 5 to10 lambs in every hundred during the lambing. After that losses are very minimal. He would be as good as a vet with his experience, probably seen every scenario possible at this stage.
He'd be well known about the bangor area as a lot of his sheep were initially purchased there.

Sorry, I have to bite. There is no way that one man with 4000 sheep is only losing 10% maximum. It isn't a question of being as good as a vet, it is simply down to logistics. How long would it take him to get around to check them? It isn't as if you can keep them all together in a small area - Im assuming they are mountain ewes coming from that part of the country, so I doubt they are in land, but rather out on commonage, which means it takes much longer to locate them. How many newborn twins would have become singles in that time? How many ewes that needed assistance would not get it soon enough or at all? How many that had a hard lambing would have walked off and left their lamb? Id say their are some very well fed foxes in north Leitrim...

Im not trying to knock him, I understand that minimum input systems exist. But I know a lad with around 1000, he'd have 50 lambs a day sometimes, so this lad might have days where almost 400 lambs are born. It is a safe assumption to make that a lot of them are on their own. So if 10% losses is the going rate for the average farmer who will have maybe 100 in the land and see all of them 2-3 times a day, it is a serious stretch to claim that this guy is matching it.

Maybe I am being too cynical here, but I bristle at this idea that if a guy has a lot of stock he must be a great farmer or a superior farmer to a guy with 100. Very often they are just turning a blind eye to most of their losses and when they bring down their 750 lambs it might be a great sight to see. What never occurs to people is the guy has 1000 breeding ewes... I recall a farmer with big numbers from my area telling me he had a ewe that lambed out a deformed growth along with her normal lamb up in his shed. So I went up to see it. It was the lamb bed... Now the guy wasnt a bad farmer or whatever, but it is an indication of the involvement he had around lambing time. The same guy will have 4-5 times the number of lambs I will have.

rangler1 · 24-04-2015 12:13PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry, I have to bite. There is no way that one man with 4000 sheep is only losing 10% maximum. It isn't a question of being as good as a vet, it is simply down to logistics. How long would it take him to get around to check them? It isn't as if you can keep them all together in a small area - Im assuming they are mountain ewes coming from that part of the country, so I doubt they are in land, but rather out on commonage, which means it takes much longer to locate them. How many newborn twins would have become singles in that time? How many ewes that needed assistance would not get it soon enough or at all? How many that had a hard lambing would have walked off and left their lamb? Id say their are some very well fed foxes in north Leitrim...

Im not trying to knock him, I understand that minimum input systems exist. But I know a lad with around 1000, he'd have 50 lambs a day sometimes, so this lad might have days where almost 400 lambs are born. It is a safe assumption to make that a lot of them are on their own. So if 10% losses is the going rate for the average farmer who will have maybe 100 in the land and see all of them 2-3 times a day, it is a serious stretch to claim that this guy is matching it.

Maybe I am being too cynical here, but I bristle at this idea that if a guy has a lot of stock he must be a great farmer or a superior farmer to a guy with 100. Very often they are just turning a blind eye to most of their losses and when they bring down their 750 lambs it might be a great sight to see. What never occurs to people is the guy has 1000 breeding ewes... I recall a farmer with big numbers from my area telling me he had a ewe that lambed out a deformed growth along with her normal lamb up in his shed. So I went up to see it. It was the lamb bed... Now the guy wasnt a bad farmer or whatever, but it is an indication of the involvement he had around lambing time. The same guy will have 4-5 times the number of lambs I will have.

He had a charmed life if that the first time he had a lamb bed out, probably as you say, it was the first one he saw....slight difference

AntrimGlens · 24-04-2015 01:35PM

ulleJ1 wrote: »

Its a competition to make money, same as everyone in every walk of life.
He would loose more than most men would have in total but to farm them numbers year in year out the last 30 odd years is a serious achievement.
He actually takes better care of his flock than most small flock owners in our area so id say he looses about 5 to10 lambs in every hundred during the lambing. After that losses are very minimal. He would be as good as a vet with his experience, probably seen every scenario possible at this stage.
He'd be well known about the bangor area as a lot of his sheep were initially purchased there.

How much help/labour does he have? There's a man very well known in farming politics circles a couple of miles from me and he has approx 2500-3000 ewes. These are nearly all wiltshire horn X and he has a draft sale of what is termed easycare sheep every year and he gets buyers for them. They are easycare in that they are bred to be wool shedding and a hardy breed and he lambs them outside on hill ground, which is fairly exposed. They're not that easycare when he has 7 men employed at lambing time and 3 FT men the rest of the year. Now he's a bit like Mayo's fella that he wouldn't be too involved himself but I reckon he's probably seen a lamb bed before.

MayoAreMagic · 24-04-2015 01:45PM

rangler1 wrote: »

He had a charmed life if that the first time he had a lamb bed out, probably as you say, it was the first one he saw....slight difference

Well I suppose it would be unusual for the type of sheep and system in place for it to happen in fairness. Little meal is given, the ewe is out on the hill all winter, his would lamb out there too generally. So there isnt a lot of big lambs or twins involved. I have only seen it once myself. The point is when I did see it, I knew enough to know what it was! That isn't bigging myself up either, there are better men than me out there. It is just an example of running big numbers and the beliefs that go with it.

foxylock · 24-04-2015 02:32PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well I suppose it would be unusual for the type of sheep and system in place for it to happen in fairness. Little meal is given, the ewe is out on the hill all winter, his would lamb out there too generally. So there isnt a lot of big lambs or twins involved. I have only seen it once myself. The point is when I did see it, I knew enough to know what it was! That isn't bigging myself up either, there are better men than me out there. It is just an example of running big numbers and the beliefs that go with it.

Lowland farmers will talk of lambs per ewe while hill farmers tend to use ewes per lamb when talking numbers!

ulleJ1 · 24-04-2015 04:25PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry, I have to bite. There is no way that one man with 4000 sheep is only losing 10% maximum. It isn't a question of being as good as a vet, it is simply down to logistics. How long would it take him to get around to check them? It isn't as if you can keep them all together in a small area - Im assuming they are mountain ewes coming from that part of the country, so I doubt they are in land, but rather out on commonage, which means it takes much longer to locate them. How many newborn twins would have become singles in that time? How many ewes that needed assistance would not get it soon enough or at all? How many that had a hard lambing would have walked off and left their lamb? Id say their are some very well fed foxes in north Leitrim...

Im not trying to knock him, I understand that minimum input systems exist. But I know a lad with around 1000, he'd have 50 lambs a day sometimes, so this lad might have days where almost 400 lambs are born. It is a safe assumption to make that a lot of them are on their own. So if 10% losses is the going rate for the average farmer who will have maybe 100 in the land and see all of them 2-3 times a day, it is a serious stretch to claim that this guy is matching it.

Maybe I am being too cynical here, but I bristle at this idea that if a guy has a lot of stock he must be a great farmer or a superior farmer to a guy with 100. Very often they are just turning a blind eye to most of their losses and when they bring down their 750 lambs it might be a great sight to see. What never occurs to people is the guy has 1000 breeding ewes... I recall a farmer with big numbers from my area telling me he had a ewe that lambed out a deformed growth along with her normal lamb up in his shed. So I went up to see it. It was the lamb bed... Now the guy wasnt a bad farmer or whatever, but it is an indication of the involvement he had around lambing time. The same guy will have 4-5 times the number of lambs I will have.

Well Im only calculating 10% from my own experiences and seeing that he does farm very well from what I observe him doing... obviously some sheep wouldn't be seen for two weeks or more especially on the mountains at home but if a sheep is dosed and dipped and clipped and has plenty to eat its very unlikely they will get into trouble... half of his flock would be on the mountains , the other half is fed on top quality low land in the midlands... he would be at a lot of toing and froing with sheep from the mountains to the good land as twins would be generally kept on the good land and singles on the mountain... I know myself its easy to drive round the large 50 acre fields in Mullingar in the jeep, two to three hours and you'd have 1000 sheep looked at so time isn't a problem on the good land... most of the sheep are brought to the one farm in the midlands where he's has one man helping him with lambing - this goes on for two months flat out.... once the lambs are a week old they are then moved to different farms... Most ewes are horned sheep , maybe half of the flock would be mountain cross (cheviot x mountain), mostly carrying to a Suffolk ram , some charolais and some mountain rams to tidy up things.

Id don't blame you for having doubts but this man is the best in the country and has proved it year in year out.... he has been managing these numbers the last 30 years.... any time I see him he's as cool as a breeze , always with a positive outlook on everything... he has to be or he wouldn't have a hope of continuing the operation he runs.....

I see men every weeks with less than 50 sheep and there ran off there feet and still things are done arse ways! giving out about everything!

The reality is most farmers are at it because there parents handed it to them, they have little appreciation for the land and are pretty useless at farming it...
The good ones are very rare,
I've about 150 ewes, all lambed bar about 10, lost one ewe and 4 lambs so far, only see them at the weekends as working during the week away from home. I find them little trouble if managed properly,
I must admit I've been lucky this year so far

ulleJ1 · 24-04-2015 04:38PM

AntrimGlens wrote: »

How much help/labour does he have? There's a man very well known in farming politics circles a couple of miles from me and he has approx 2500-3000 ewes. These are nearly all wiltshire horn X and he has a draft sale of what is termed easycare sheep every year and he gets buyers for them. They are easycare in that they are bred to be wool shedding and a hardy breed and he lambs them outside on hill ground, which is fairly exposed. They're not that easycare when he has 7 men employed at lambing time and 3 FT men the rest of the year. Now he's a bit like Mayo's fella that he wouldn't be too involved himself but I reckon he's probably seen a lamb bed before.

Is there a big swaledale breeder up there in Antrim?
I think I read about him in the journal a few years ago, he has an on farm sale?
There very hardy sheep and if you can get a big square one your in business.
The lanarks are very popular up your side, there a great sheep - hardy and easily fleshed too.... the only down side is a lot of them are too short in the leg and too short in the body, some are extremely wild and hard managed too,

Green farmer · 24-04-2015 06:49PM

, I totally understand the points your making. There are some exceptional sheep farmers out there , that you could learn a lot from, and there are some poor performing sheep farmers as well. Guys that don't really like what their doing, and just fell into it as they went through life. Like everything really. Having the interest and enthusiasm in it is half the battle alright. A good professional well run outfit that knows what their doing will succeed regardless of numbers.

ulleJ1 · 24-04-2015 07:25PM

I think its a fascinating way of life, almost every day brings its surprises and its a constant learning curve, Id love to be at it full time but its not an option at the moment as the returns are too small and wont pay the bills.
Trying to build up to a respectable flock size which includes purchasing land too so some day might get free from the day job!
I suppose as the saying goes "you crave what you cant have"

MayoAreMagic · 27-04-2015 11:57AM

I would just ask a question to anyone who sees their lambs every day etc. How many would you have lost if you only seen them once in two weeks? And that is before you factor in multiple births being left out to the elements. I have lost 3, I would have lost another 7.

I just don't buy this thing where guys say 'a good ewe will rear her own lambs' etc. Are they trying to convince you or themselves? Many a 'good ewe' actually had 2 lambs but only came down with 1. Many a barren ewe lost her lamb in a hole, but the ewe gets the blame for not going into lamb. I farm on commonage myself. There are marshes, old drains, holes between rocks, foxes galore, little grass at lambing time, that is commonage farming. Being cool as a breeze about it doesn't change that. Best of luck to him if he is by the way, but let's not pretend he is only losing the same as everyone else either. It reminds me of a couple of lads I know, one is a big farmer, a couple of thousand of sheep. His line is 'I never count them, it's bad luck...'

Another lad had triplets with an old ewe, I asked if he was going to foster one, he said 'no no, I gave her a bit of meal and let her out'. The same guy couldn't understand how I had so many twins compared to him when we farm the same area - I'll let you figure that one out yourself... (I don't have loads of twins either, he just has none - plenty of smallish singles on strong ewes though!)

Connemara Farmer · 27-04-2015 12:46PM

I know a couple of NZ lads and their lambing kit is a pair of binoculars and a rifle, see a problem? Bang. Their view is farmers this side of the world do too much, try to save everything. There may be an uncomfortable truth in it.

I know farmers in Ireland that if the ewe had twins, she'd be the first back to the hill, so as not to have twins next year.

It depends on so many things, what the farmers aim is, what the land is like, how the money situation is, what the individual is happy to do, or not to do.

One of the most dangerous comments you can get is that you have the best animals at the mart on a given day. They're often the ones that leave SFA after them.

As for a good ewe will rear her own lambs, in an ideal world maybe she should if she's given the best conditions. She certainly won't do that on the hill, but down on manured land, maybe, that requires years of work to get the sheep you want. A lot of which can be undone buying the wrong ram. It's currently a gamble because I believe, in particular hill sheep, are the backward relation in agriculture. A huge lack of investment in genetics, managing soil types etc.

I won't ever be happy with one ewe one lamb, for the entire flock. I want a % of twins, from my best ewes, them that can rear them, no point in piling pressure on one that can't, they won't look the best in September.

Green farmer · 27-04-2015 12:53PM

This discussion sort of points out the huge difference in hill farming and lowland farming. The hill appear to suit singles, where you desperately need twins for the lowlands.

Connemara Farmer · 27-04-2015 12:55PM

Green farmer wrote: »

This discussion sort of points out the huge difference in hill farming and lowland farming. The hill appear to suit singles, where you desperately need twins for the lowlands.

I tried, in my innocence, sending twins to the hill many years ago.

I didn't try it a second time

Green farmer · 27-04-2015 01:04PM

I know very little about hill farming Con, but just seems like a different kind of setup to lowland, over a wider area, less confined then having sheep in 3-5 acre paddocks. Out of curiosity how big would a commonage area be ? And what happens if you cannt find all your sheep ?

MayoAreMagic · 27-04-2015 01:50PM

I fully understand that con, and see the merits of their system. The point Im making is, those lads in NZ aren't saying they are only losing 10% maximum, and that this is down to simply being superior farmers. They accept the losses as part of the system, they don't pretend the losses don't exist.

Green farmer, commonages can be vast and difficult to search. Many are unfenced mountain ranges that lack road access. You have large mountains with humps, hollows, banks etc in them, I have often been no more than 100 metres from ewes and never set eyes on them, simply because of the terrain. Guys with a few hundred would probably never have all their animals in at once. Some wander away and never come back. Singles are all I ever want to be honest with you. Twin ewe lambs are ok and can do well with some level of management, but as soon as you get a ram lamb, and particularly two ram lambs together, they are rarely going to be anything other than a hungry lamb and a light store.

Dickie10 · 29-04-2015 11:31AM

its a differnet world from lowland farming! however i think lowland farmers are still a bit obsesssed by wanting to breed the perfect texel or charrolais lamb, a bit like what is seen at shows, nstead of what will deliver the most weight in the shortest time, some people will say " oh but the factories want this or that" . are people really worrying about poor factory agent? pff!

Username John · 29-04-2015 11:42AM

Dickie10 wrote: »

its a differnet world from lowland farming! however i think lowland farmers are still a bit obsesssed by wanting to breed the perfect texel or charrolais lamb, a bit like what is seen at shows, nstead of what will deliver the most weight in the shortest time, some people will say " oh but the factories want this or that" . are people really worrying about poor factory agent? pff!

That's a nice generalisation of lowland farmers there Dickie...

Sure we all know that ALL lowland farmers are ALL pedigree breeders, trying to "breed the perfect texel or charrolais" as your post suggests... :rolleyes:

Cran · 29-04-2015 12:00PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

its a differnet world from lowland farming! however i think lowland farmers are still a bit obsesssed by wanting to breed the perfect texel or charrolais lamb, a bit like what is seen at shows, nstead of what will deliver the most weight in the shortest time, some people will say " oh but the factories want this or that" . are people really worrying about poor factory agent? pff!

I see this approach in about 1/2 of my STAP group, 'why would you keep Lleyns / Mules / Belclares the lambs are so much lesser quality than out of my Suffolk ewes'. The other half of the group though who are either more dependent on sheep or progressive are focused on a balance between number of lambs, speed to market of R grade lambs. Given that this is a STAP group I would think Dickie your comment is probably more prevelant that most people will acknowledge among lowland farmers.

Green farmer · 29-04-2015 12:22PM

I think generalising can be dangerous, but I can see the validity in some of yer points there lads. It's up to every man to decide what suits them best and I ain't going to tell any man what they should run, but I personally find it hard to understand why the big Suffolk x ewe is still the most popular breed of ewe on a lowland farm.

AnFeirmeoir · 29-04-2015 01:03PM

their lambs push down the weighing scales

Username John · 29-04-2015 02:36PM

Green farmer wrote: »

I think generalising can be dangerous, but I can see the validity in some of yer points there lads. It's up to every man to decide what suits them best and I ain't going to tell any man what they should run, but I personally find it hard to understand why the big Suffolk x ewe is still the most popular breed of ewe on a lowland farm.

What's wrong with Suffolk cross ewes?
ha?
ha?
ha?

Connemara Farmer · 29-04-2015 02:39PM

Username John wrote: »

What's wrong with Suffolk cross ewes?
ha?
ha?
ha?

.........oh, I just copped that was a rhetorical question

Username John · 29-04-2015 02:50PM

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

.........oh, I just copped that was a rhetorical question

Ah now...

No need for that kinda carry on...

Green farmer · 29-04-2015 03:17PM

Green farmer wrote: »

I think generalising can be dangerous, but I can see the validity in some of yer points there lads. It's up to every man to decide what suits them best and I ain't going to tell any man what they should run, but I personally find it hard to understand why the big Suffolk x ewe is still the most popular breed of ewe on a lowland farm.

I just don't understand why people choose a bred of sheep such as the Suffolk that's bred for its terminal qualities over a specialist maternal breed of ewe that's bred especially for its maternal or mothering ability such as the llyen or belclare or mule.

Dickie10 · 29-04-2015 06:07PM

sorry didnt mean to generalise was just trying to get a quick point in. im a lowland farmer too. no that was all i point that maybe some farmers could look at a maternal ewe. i couldnt belive the brother in law who is in sheep 20 years, picks his replacements by the biggest and best ewe lambs in autumn. the last few years his scan rate is around 1.5. most of his ewe lambs were prob single lambs.

i like the suffolk ewe, id rather a suffolk ewe to a texel or charrolais. this year i put the lleyn ram with a few very suffolky ewes as well as my 4 cheviots! im hoping that the suffolkxlleyn will give good prolificy, milk, feet and the shape and weight from the suffolk.

ganmo · 29-04-2015 06:39PM

We have 1 Suffolk ewe here. She is the biggest wagon of the lot

The big ewes generally give lambs that grow fast.
Lambs that grow fast tend to big when fully grown.

There is a delicate balance between lamb growth and ewe maintenance. Horney mountain ewes could be heavier giving faster growing lambs
Lowland ewes could be lighter reducing their maintenance cost

ihatewinter · 29-04-2015 09:24PM

I have about 12 Suffolk X here, crossed them back with a Cheviot and I think 9 have twins. The difference between them and the straight Cheviot lamb is unreal. There are about 2 kgs heavier each then Cheviots. Plus they are fatter and I think can withstand a bit more hardship and lean times than a Cheviot ewe.

I didn't think it justified buying a ram for 12 ewes as I'm trying to get proficiency and better ewes back into the main Cheviot flock

Username John · 30-04-2015 08:15AM

Oh, yes are all very hard on the poor Suffolks...

I suppose I am biased too tho (in that we have Suffolky types)

I wouldnt have massive experience with a lot of breeds to be honest - but mothering or milkiness wouldn't really be an issue, the biggest issue was lambs with big stupid boxy heads... But a Lleyn on Suffolk ewes this year sorted that.

I like the Suffolks then - nice 'meaty' sheep, I think the Suffolk can come from the dam or the ram, but the lambs will still bring that bit of meatiness. Altho I await someone to tell me now that's not 100% correct, but that's what I think

The other issues of dirty back ends, and lameness... well, all of my sheep now are dirty then, but I have some with a bit of charolais, and 1 half-cheviot yoke - and they are all the same... I think its the grass more than anything... (altho the way the weather is going, that 'grass' problem may disapppear soon enough:( )
As for lameness, not a major problem. Some will go lame, but repeat offenders get culled.

Plan now is to keep Suffolk ewe lambs for breeding, to life the lambing % more than anything, will see how that goes I guess

Actually, the biggest thing I like about them, is their temperament, lovely quiet ewes, really nice to work with, no running or bolting in the pen, just nice queit half-dozy ewes... I like that

I dunno, maybe I am a bit old school, but I'd like to think I'll be keeping em for a bit longer anyways.

ganmo · 30-04-2015 08:52AM

If anyone wants to try out a few suffx ewe lambs I might be able to sort ya out

stantheman1979 · 30-11-2015 12:01PM

The problem i have with suffolks is the big heads and thick legs at lambing time. You know the second u put your hand into a ewe if she is having a suff or a char lamb. Theyre much harder lambed and will take a lot longer to get up sucking and dont seem to go looking for milk. Saying all that once they get going they are good sheep to grow.

davidk1394 · 01-12-2015 08:39AM

Anyone here selling in lamb ewes ? Looking for 50- 100

Are there many Sheep only farms?

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