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EGM and AGM notices

  • 14-08-2015 08:43AM
    #1
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭


    ICU website - icu.ie wrote:
    An EGM will be held on Sunday 4th October starting at 2.30pm in the Ierne Sports and Social Club, Gracepark Road, Drumcondra, Dublin 9.

    The EGM will address four motions proposing the adoption of:

    A new Constitution (the attached draft tracks the changes to the existing Constitution) A Disciplinary Code that is to be incorporated into an Appendix A of the Constitution Revised Rules for the holding of the Irish National Club Cup Competition (INCC) including a provision that these rules can only be changed in the future at a General meeting Revised Eligibility Criteria for International Selection

    The four documents involved can be accessed at the following links;

    Draft Constitution of the Irish Chess Union
    Draft Disciplinary Code for the Irish Chess Union
    Draft Rules for the National Club Championship
    Draft Eligibility Criteria for International Selection

    The new draft Constitution and the Disciplinary Code reflect discussions at last year's AGM about suggested changes required in these areas.

    The draft revisions of the INCC rules are designed mainly to clarify the rules about eligibility etc of teams to enter the event and to give the arbiter and tournament director some options about how it is to be run depending on the volume of entries.

    The draft International Selection Criteria set out the minimum activity levels required to establish eligibility for consideration for selection. They also propose to revise the manner in which non-nationals have to establish their eligibility for selection. The essential point here is that when a non-national has played once on an Irish national team, s/he is subject to the same rules as players born on the Ireland of Ireland or players whose parents were born in Ireland or are citizens of Ireland for future selections.

    AGM

    The AGM will be held on Sunday 11th October 2015 commencing at 11.00 am in the Academy Plaza Hotel, Findlater Place, (just off Upper O' Connell Street, Dublin 1). the Irish Blitz Championships will take place at the same venue starting at 2.30 pm with registration from 1.45pm onwards.

    Proposed motions and nominations for the Executive Committee should be emailed to Secretary@icu.ie by midnight on Wednesday 26th August 2015.

    It seems like a good idea to have the EGM about a big topic prior to the AGM. - though it seems less likely to get people not from Dublin to travel for 2 weekends right after each other.

    Also the AGM the same day as Ireland v France in the Rugby World Cup? Here is hoping it's over by 4:45.

    Why do you have to login to get access to the links on the icu.ie site?


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Strange that the Irish blitz champs are after the AGM rather than before.

    You'd think the exec are looking to limit the discussion at the AGM...


  • #3
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    cdeb wrote: »
    Strange that the Irish blitz champs are after the AGM rather than before.

    You'd think the exec are looking to limit the discussion at the AGM...

    Woah I only realised that now, three and a half hours (assuming the AGM start on time). The elections took about a half hour last year and only 1 position was contested.... Then you have the minutes from the AGM and the EGM to pass (with/without amendments) and officer's reports.

    Not to mention the motions the chair flat out rejected and said would incorporate into motions to this AGM. Those motions are going to be resubmitted anyway which means another hour is taken up....

    I can see why they want to change it to quorum present at all times, rather
    than at the start of the meeting!


  • #4
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    There really should be time for people to submit motions that don't contradict/conflict with the EGM.
    7.7 of the constitution wrote:
    The proposer of a motion must attend the General Meeting for it to be discussed. In the
    absence of the proposer, the motion will be deemed to have been withdrawn and will not be
    discussed. Any motion must be seconded at the General Meeting before it may be discussed.

    Why is a motion automatically withdrawn? I've never understood this.. if no one seconds it, it is not discussed. Surely they should at least ask for someone to speak for this motion if the proposer isn't there?

    Some of the changes were passed at a previous general meeting... They need to show a pdf with changes to the current constitution.
    Disciplinary Code wrote:
    Disciplinary action will only be taken in cases of alleged serious misconduct or
    unsatisfactory behaviour which, if proven, would, in the view of the ICU
    Executive Committee:
    • bring the game of chess into disrepute; and/or
    • have the effect of disrupting the work of the organisation
    .
    That's a bit broad.... "disrupting the work of the organisation". An email asking a stupid question is technically disrupting the work of the organisation
    Disciplinary Code wrote:
    This procedure comes into force with effect from 4th October 2015 and only new cases arising for consideration on or after that date can be dealt with under this Code.
    This Code does not apply to cases where the Executive Committee exercised its powers under Article 13 of the Constitution prior to the Code’s introduction

    That should be changed to read that this code does not apply to breaches occuring before the 4th of October. Not necessarily cases that where the Executive have exercised their powers.

    If they are in the middle of reviewing the conduct of a player or should something occur on the 3rd of October, that would fall under the older disciplinary code.

    I also worry that with the executive being a potential 2 year term, this would mean the ICU executive would become friendly and thus favour another executive member. I'd suggest that the ICU pick X number of people from the ICU (these can be executive members) who can be on the disciplinary committee and the defendant choices Y number. There should be at least some method to reduce down some executive members from the disciplinary process.

    As some current executive members have had heated arguments at the last AGM (a former issuing death threats), can we really rely on them to be neutral? Surely the defendant would be permitted to request (with reasonable evidence) that some members do not take part?
    Eligibility criteria wrote:
    A female player qualifying under 2 above must fulfil the following activity criteria: 24 ICU rated games in Ireland within the preceding two year period. After
    meeting this condition for her first selection for a representative international tournament, the player will then be treated as if eligible under 1 above in respect of all future selections

    Why do we have a sexist policy? Favouring the strongest women's team possible but the most Irish male team?
    Eligibility criteria wrote:
    7. The Irish Championships:
    b. The Irish Champion shall be the highest placed native Irish player or
    citizen in the Senior event.

    Surely here is where we apply the selection criteria from above? So the Irish Champion is the highest placed person who then qualifies to represent Ireland at the next Olympiad.
    Eligibility criteria wrote:
    The Irish Champion shall be selected automatically for the next Olympiad. Where the Irish Championship concludes too late to include the Champion for that year in the next Olympiad due to its timing, the Champion shall be automatically selected for the following Olympiad. If a player becomes the Irish Championship in consecutive years this shall entitle him/her to automatic selection for a corresponding number of future Olympiad teams

    WOAH!!! Who wrote this? Remove that last line immediately. That line should be changed to: If a player becomes the Irish Champion (not championship...) in consecutive years, the runner-up in those years shall receive the automatic selection to the following Olympiad.

    The whole point is the Irish championships gets a player to play on the Olympiad team. So if the winner is good enough, so is the runner up.

    This is absolutely a joke! If you win the Irish Championships 3 times in a row, you have to be selected for the next 3 Olympiads? Seems like someone wants to protect their spot on the Olympiad teams!

    I'd change it to read that the Irish Champion is entitled to be selected automatically for the next Olmypiad (provided they can actually make it/agree to it!).

    I'd also state that the Irish Women's Champions gets automatic selection to the Women's Olympiad team.


  • #5
    Sparks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    7.3 Without prejudice to other forms of communication with members of the Union, publication on a website of the Irish Chess Union shall be an acceptable form of communication with members

    And noting the change from "the" to "a" there raises the question of whether or not we're now going to see the Facebook group or some random personal blog become an official line of communications despite the ICU not being able to keep them running during the last championships.

    Not to mention that this undermines the "if it's not icu.ie we don't control it even if it's our PRO posting statements about ICU policy" line.

    8.1 An Extraordinary General Meeting of the Union shall be convened by the Hon. Secretary at the request of the Chairpersonman or on the written requisition of not less than 50 fully paid individual members of the Union
    Any particular reason to hike it from 30 to 50?


    Also, no FIDE delegate on the committee and no Women's officer and no Membership officer? Have people suddenly gotten very efficient at their jobs and has the game suddenly become completely sexist-free overnight?
    The Executive Committee may discipline any individual member or organisation who contravenes any of these rules or any of the bye-laws made by the Executive Committee or who in the opinion of the Executive Committee is guilty of unacceptable behaviour
    So, (a) that's a wide-ranging power to be granting oneself, and (b) quite a few names come to mind immediately that match that last stanza but whom either sit on the committee or have been defended by it to the detriment of swathes of members.

    That's not a good sign.

    Also, I wonder if the disciplinary code was run past anyone in the ISC, or JSI, or even someone with any legal training of any kind. Given past events, expecting acrimony in any future exercise of that code isn't being paranoid, it's being prudent...


  • #6
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    Sparks wrote: »
    And noting the change from "the" to "a" there raises the question of whether or not we're now going to see the Facebook group or some random personal blog become an official line of communications despite the ICU not being able to keep them running during the last championships.

    Not to mention that this undermines the "if it's not icu.ie we don't control it even if it's our PRO posting statements about ICU policy" line.

    Actually I believe this is a push to try to cement Colm Daly's blog as the news source without saying it. In effect, trying to retire 10+ years of a functional website, for a blog which can't display things properly. The whole point of 7.3 (from my understanding) was that the Journal wasn't being published anymore and members needed A source to get information (icu.ie). This basically tells members, you have to look everywhere, if we put an article on ratings.icu.ie that counts as notice!
    Sparks wrote: »
    Any particular reason to hike it from 30 to 50?

    Also, no FIDE delegate on the committee and no Women's officer and no Membership officer? Have people suddenly gotten very efficient at their jobs and has the game suddenly become completely sexist-free overnight?

    That's a mandated change from the AGM last year. For some reason, they are using the unaltered constitution from a couple of years ago (which is displayed on the ICU website). So some of these changes will be implemented, even if this entire document is rejected. So it's not really a true reflection of changes to the constitution.

    The FIDE and ECU delegate and the women's officer, etc. were all motions last year. Basically meaning this positions are non-voting members of the executive. The webmaster really shouldn't have to attend executive meetings or vote. The women's officer (at the time) and FIDE delegate and webmaster (at the time) all agreed that they shouldn't be core-executive members. Some issues should be dealt with quicker than others with less executive members.
    Sparks wrote: »
    So, (a) that's a wide-ranging power to be granting oneself, and (b) quite a few names come to mind immediately that match that last stanza but whom either sit on the committee or have been defended by it to the detriment of swathes of members.

    That's not a good sign.

    Also, I wonder if the disciplinary code was run past anyone in the ISC, or JSI, or even someone with any legal training of any kind. Given past events, expecting acrimony in any future exercise of that code isn't being paranoid, it's being prudent...

    Not sure how they came up with these motions, this "transparent" committee have been rather secretive.


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  • #7
    Chessrookie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭Chessrookie


    Any idea why the minimum number of games for a female is reducing from 20 games to 12?
    Is 20 not a fair minimum number of games to expect our best players to play in over a two year period?
    If a player does not play 20 games in two years, surely they do not merit the selection to the Olympiad.

    Do these changes remove the criteria for Juniors, whereby any Junior looking to represent Ireland Internationally must have played in the Irish Juniors, at least once in the previous two years?

    One last question relates to the Irish Rapid, which took place last year on the same weekend as AGM. Has this event bitten the dust?... with first Galway Congress and now the Irish Rapid vanishing it is not good news for the chess playing public.


  • #8
    brilliantboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 444 ✭✭brilliantboy


    Can the incoming executive take disciplinary action against the outgoing executive under the new disciplinary code? :)


  • #9
    rob51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭rob51


    cdeb wrote: »
    Strange that the Irish blitz champs are after the AGM rather than before.

    You'd think the exec are looking to limit the discussion at the AGM...

    Combine that with a deadline of 24th August for motions and nominations (less than two weeks) when the AGM is on 11th October and you certainly get the impression that this Executive aren't that anxious to get ordinary members views.


  • #10
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,036 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    rob51 wrote: »
    Combine that with a deadline of 24th August for motions and nominations (less than two weeks) when the AGM is on 11th October and you certainly get the impression that this Executive aren't that anxious to get ordinary members views.

    So.. Do we have people who want to be on the new exec, then, or do we just nominate RON for everything?
    Even if the positions aren't filled, presumably the seats would be less damaging to Irish chess vacant than they have been while filled by some of the current exec?


  • #11
    Pete Morriss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭Pete Morriss


    Ficheall wrote: »
    So.. Do we have people who want to be on the new exec, then, or do we just nominate RON for everything?
    Even if the positions aren't filled, presumably the seats would be less damaging to Irish chess vacant than they have been while filled by some of the current exec?

    There is no RON option. (For those uninitiated in the acronyms used in student elections, RON is ReOpen Nominations - i.e., reject all candidates.) There was a proposal put to the last AGM to introduce this idea in the ICU, but those attending the AGM voted not to discuss it. Also, for those who haven't been at an AGM, note that if there are no nominations for a position then nominations are taken at the meeting; that was how Colm Daly was nominated to be PRO. So if you think you could do better at one of the jobs than the current incumbent, now is the time to get your nomination in - even if you think leaving the post vacant would be better than your doing it!


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  • #12
    sinbad68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭sinbad68


    Pete Morriss wrote: »
    So if you think you could do better at one of the jobs than the current incumbent, now is the time to get your nomination in - even if you think leaving the post vacant would be better than your doing it!

    Since you have played such an important part in this rancor, are you planning to nominate yourself or show up in the Agm to vote ?( specially now that you don't have to worry about someone spilling their drink on you ) or are you going to leg it and just snipe from a blog and tell others to act & show up and vote to change the executive ?


  • #13
    rob51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭rob51


    Pete Morriss wrote: »
    There is no RON option. (For those uninitiated in the acronyms used in student elections, RON is ReOpen Nominations - i.e., reject all candidates.) There was a proposal put to the last AGM to introduce this idea in the ICU, but those attending the AGM voted not to discuss it. Also, for those who haven't been at an AGM, note that if there are no nominations for a position then nominations are taken at the meeting; that was how Colm Daly was nominated to be PRO. So if you think you could do better at one of the jobs than the current incumbent, now is the time to get your nomination in - even if you think leaving the post vacant would be better than your doing it!

    Exactly my reason for highlighting the ridiculous nominations deadline. I don't have time or desire to run myself but I really don't want the existing executive skating through using this sort of gamesmanship.


  • #14
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    sinbad68 wrote: »
    are you going to leg it and just snipe from a blog and tell others to act &
    Oh, the irony!


  • #15
    sinbad68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭sinbad68


    cdeb wrote: »
    Oh, the irony!

    What irony :confused:

    If you are referring to my previous posts regarding icu agm and any similiarity with pete's post, Let me clear things up for you.

    When I saw The non-stop barrage of posts & comments attacking icu executive, I simply asked a question, if the haters are so unhappy, are they planning to take action and go and vote out the executive ?, instead of these incessant attacks on blogs which achieve little . To me it makes No difference whether Tweedledum or Tweedledee is in charge .

    Pete on other hand is urging people to nominate and go and vote and he dislikes the executive, There is a world of difference between pete's statement and my previous posts. I think you are mixed up and may need English language classes !. :cool:


  • #16
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Au contraire. You regularly post attacks which achieve little, but you never actually get involved at the coal face.

    Be it implying that a player raising funds to go to a tournament in Siberia is vain, repeatedly complaining about the layout of the Glorney website (even though several posters were able to work out what was going on and correct you), complaining about the naming terminology of chess tournament sections, complaining about promising juniors being allowed into the Irish Senior Championships (a tournament of no relevance to you), calling tournament organisers clueless, complaining that a first round draw hasn't been published even before the end of the timeframe the organisers gave for publishing it, complaining about a room - you've posted a non-stop barrage of posts and comments attacking chess in Ireland while not bothering to get involved yourself at any stage. That's just a quick search of your post history (only under this username...) - I'm sure there's plenty more if I was to do a thorough search.

    That's the irony.


  • #17
    sinbad68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭sinbad68


    cdeb wrote: »
    Au contraire.

    I was going to respond to this with a beautiful french phrase, BUT the rules of boards.ie states that I must speak English, so can't post it !.
    cdeb wrote: »
    You regularly post attacks which achieve little, but you never actually get involved at the coal face.

    Be it implying that a player raising funds to go to a tournament in Siberia is vain, repeatedly complaining about the layout of the Glorney website (even though several posters were able to work out what was going on and correct you), complaining about the naming terminology of chess tournament sections, complaining about promising juniors being allowed into the Irish Senior Championships (a tournament of no relevance to you), calling tournament organisers clueless, complaining that a first round draw hasn't been published even before the end of the timeframe the organisers gave for publishing it, complaining about a room - you've posted a non-stop barrage of posts and comments attacking chess in Ireland while not bothering to get involved yourself at any stage. That's just a quick search of your post history (only under this username...) - I'm sure there's plenty more if I was to do a thorough search.

    That's the irony.

    I was going to respond to this rant point by point, but then I saw the thread headline which is about AGM & EGM, which means you can rant about icu or rant on icu rants, But thread topic doesn't allow rants on sinbad or rant on sinbad rants ( That's the irony ! ), so I don't want to derail the thread.... but I say this

    Please don't falsely accuse me of attacking chess in ireland, I am simply trying to help to improve it, partly by showing the way it should be done and partly by means of constructive criticism.. AND.. I did email both the ICU and LCU two years ago offering to point out flaws & offer advice, FREE of charge !, but it was not taken, If icu had, perhaps right now they wouldn't be advertising a tournament that is being held in Bulgaria next month as being held in Romania !.

    Yes, Lets get back to the topic of AGM & EGM.


  • #18
    Ted IA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ✭Ted IA


    Extract from ICU Constitution.....

    7.7 Any motion must be seconded at the General Meeting before it may be discussed. A Motion or Resolution may be moved or seconded by the Executive Committee in its own name. Nothing in this rule shall operate so as to prevent guests of the Executive Committee from attending any general meeting of the Union and from addressing the meeting if so invited by the Chairman of the meeting. Motions shall not be accepted at any General Meeting of the Union of which three clear weeks prior notice shall not have been given unless:

    They relate solely to the conduct of the meeting; or
    They relate to a matter which could not reasonably have been the subject of a written Motion with the appropriate notice; or
    In the opinion of the Chairman of the General Meeting they are of a minor nature.


    Note 3 weeks notice required for Motions ???
    Ted Jennings


  • #19
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    sinbad68 wrote: »
    Please don't falsely accuse me of attacking chess in ireland, I am simply trying to help to improve it, partly by showing the way it should be done and partly by means of constructive criticism.. AND.. I did email both the ICU and LCU two years ago
    Wow - you sent a couple of e-mails two years ago! Well done you.

    And yet you see fit to accuse a former Chairman of the ICU of just sniping on a blog and doing nothing constructive?


  • #20
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Ted IA wrote: »
    Note 3 weeks notice required for Motions ???
    Ted Jennings
    That gives people from now until 20th September to submit motions I assume?

    They can then be published on 20th Sept, giving three weeks' notice.


  • #21
    Retd.LoyolaCpt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    The question now is whether members of 2014-2015 will be allowed to vote or just 2015-2016 members. a total of 12 players apparently signed up through 2016 - 6 on the executive


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  • #22
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    sinbad68 wrote: »
    I was going to respond to this with a beautiful french phrase, BUT the rules of boards.ie states that I must speak English, so can't post it !.



    I was going to respond to this rant point by point, but then I saw the thread headline which is about AGM & EGM, which means you can rant about icu or rant on icu rants, But thread topic doesn't allow rants on sinbad or rant on sinbad rants ( That's the irony ! ), so I don't want to derail the thread.... but I say this

    Please don't falsely accuse me of attacking chess in ireland, I am simply trying to help to improve it, partly by showing the way it should be done and partly by means of constructive criticism.. AND.. I did email both the ICU and LCU two years ago offering to point out flaws & offer advice, FREE of charge !, but it was not taken, If icu had, perhaps right now they wouldn't be advertising a tournament that is being held in Bulgaria next month as being held in Romania !.

    Yes, Lets get back to the topic of AGM & EGM.

    *mod note*
    If you were reading the rules, you'd read that you don't backseat mod and don't attack posters. There is a report feature, and as an ordinary poster, you can flag and then ignore comments you don't want to respond to. I will also note that Pete does not mention anything about his view on the current executive. He suggests people to nominate themselves if they think they can do a better job as people can be taken from the floor and he explained what RON was. Now can we get back to discussing the AGM/EGM?
    cdeb wrote: »
    That gives people from now until 20th September to submit motions I assume?

    They can then be published on 20th Sept, giving three weeks' notice.


    No it's future motions for AGMs have be submitted 3 weeks in advance.

    We have 9 days left to submit motions and nominations - The NCC rule changes are still not advertised - 6/15 days!
    ICU site wrote:
    7.1 The AGM shall be held between 1st July and 30th September in each calendar year
    They need to update the Constitution on the ICU website so people know what changes are actually taking place. For instance, that was changed last year to 7.1 The AGM shall be held between 1st October and 1st December in each calendar year.
    Draft constitution: Article 12 wrote:
    Accounts of the Union shall be prepared in respect of each subscription year by the Hon. Treasurer and audited by an Auditor who shall be a qualified Accountant approved by the Union in a general meeting. Copies of the accounts shall be available for inspection by fully paid up members of the Union at the Annual General Meeting and also on written request from any fully paid up member (including any body referred to in rule 4.1).

    Accounts also need to be made available by the 13th of September (as per a passed motion last year). Also that currently should read:

    Accounts of the Union shall be prepared in respect of each subscription year by the Hon. Treasurer and audited by an Auditor who shall be a qualified Accountant approved by the Union in a general meeting. Copies of the accounts should be made available to members on the ICU web-site at least 4 weeks in advance of the AGM.
    Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »
    The question now is whether members of 2014-2015 will be allowed to vote or just 2015-2016 members. a total of 12 players apparently signed up through 2016 - 6 on the executive

    Only 2014-15 members are allowed to vote in the 2014-15 AGM. Though I think, as usual, a membership from 2014-15 season OR 2015-16 membership will suffice.


  • #23
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    AGM
    Any sign of minutes of the last AGM?

    Here is what I believe happened at the 2013-14 AGM - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzmwAxVweoyLQUVvX09xZnJjV3M/view

    EGM
    It'd be nice for the executive to publish reasoning for some of the changes - in NCC rules, constitution, etc.

    Rather than have the general public debate it at the EGM (or at least debate it with some facts).

    They also have until September 6th to put the NCC rules on the website otherwise the meeting is invalid.


  • #24
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »
    The question now is whether members of 2014-2015 will be allowed to vote or just 2015-2016 members. a total of 12 players apparently signed up through 2016 - 6 on the executive
    As it's the 2014/15 AGM, the logical thing would be for 2014/15 members to have the vote. But...

    Is it worth collating here a list of potential issues with the AGM that can be raised on the day? Yes, it'll be seen by the exec - but if it's clear-cut procedural issues, then the only way around it would be to do things correctly.


  • #25
    Retd.LoyolaCpt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    Bryan Tobin no longer listed as secretary


  • #26
    Rrydlny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭Rrydlny


    Is there a reason the secretary is no longer listed on the ICU website?


  • #27
    sinbad68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭sinbad68


    reunion wrote: »
    *mod note*
    If you were reading the rules, you'd read that you don't backseat mod and don't attack posters. There is a report feature, and as an ordinary poster, you can flag and then ignore comments you don't want to respond to. I will also note that Pete does not mention anything about his view on the current executive. He suggests people to nominate themselves if they think they can do a better job as people can be taken from the floor

    If you could read & comprehend English properly. You would note that I was NOT attacking a poster but was defending myself against barrage of attacks from cdeb on one of his attacking points . I did not back-moderate but telling cdeb I did could not engage him as this would be derailing the thread.
    Pete has lots of posts here attacking the icu executive .

    reunion wrote: »
    an ordinary poster

    That's what it's all about ! I am an ordinary poster and you are the moderator. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.


  • #28
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    sinbad68 wrote: »
    If you could read & comprehend English properly. You would note that I was NOT attacking a poster but was defending myself against barrage of attacks from cdeb on one of his attacking points . I did not back-moderate but telling cdeb I did could not engage him as this would be derailing the thread.
    Pete has lots of posts here attacking the icu executive .




    That's what it's all about ! I am an ordinary poster and you are the moderator. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    *mod note* I've highlighted your personal attacks. Consider this your warning. Cdeb provided proof to back up his claim mocking your post (not you), while sadly you don't. Off-topic maybe, but within normal conversation! This is now the end of the conversation about this. Keep it to the AGM/EGM.
    Rrydlny wrote: »
    Is there a reason the secretary is no longer listed on the ICU website?

    Not sure... The 4th of August was his last news item. Who are we sending motions to then? Is the chairman taking up the role? It seems the ratings officer Andrew Kildea (or someone else with the AK) posted the AGM/EGM notice - is he the new secretary? The secretary is the only one who can call an EGM so for that notice to be valid, Andrew Kildea is the secretary?

    Also Bryan is still listed on Colm Daly's blog as secretary. So we have 2 "official" sites with conflicting information. Note: Colm Daly posted on the blog about the EGM/AGM.

    Doesn't surprise me that the executive that campaigned for transparency was the least transparent.


  • #29
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,036 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Is it now too late to join the ICU to vote in the AGM then?
    When did the online option for subscribing change from 2014/2015 to 2015/2016?


  • #30
    tedjennings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭tedjennings


    "Here is what I believe happened at the 2013-14 AGM - link to a web page..."

    The above while close is incorrect on a number of issues.

    I still say that only 3 weeks notice is required for motions to be lodged with the Secretary to be valid. I have e-mailed the Secretary on this matter but not received a reply.

    Ted.


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  • #31
    rob51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭rob51


    tedjennings wrote: »
    "Here is what I believe happened at the 2013-14 AGM - link to a web page..."

    The above while close is incorrect on a number of issues.

    I still say that only 3 weeks notice is required for motions to be lodged with the Secretary to be valid. I have e-mailed the Secretary on this matter but not received a reply.

    Ted.

    I agree completely and there is no reason nominations should be any different. I questioned the notice period on the second official website yesterday but the comment or a response haven't appeared yet. Suggesting such a short response time during holiday time for ICU members to submit nominations and motions is ridiculous and in the case of motions clearly contradicts the Constitution.


  • #32
    rob51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭rob51


    Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »
    The question now is whether members of 2014-2015 will be allowed to vote or just 2015-2016 members. a total of 12 players apparently signed up through 2016 - 6 on the executive

    Since it is the 2014 - 2015 AGM at which the outgoing committee accounts for the year then the 2014 - 2015 membership must be valid. This was confirmed by the then Chairman two years ago at the AGM.


  • #33
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    tedjennings wrote: »
    "Here is what I believe happened at the 2013-14 AGM - link to a web page..."

    The above while close is incorrect on a number of issues.

    I still say that only 3 weeks notice is required for motions to be lodged with the Secretary to be valid. I have e-mailed the Secretary on this matter but not received a reply.

    Ted.

    I believe if you had a recording of the AGM you wouldn't find anything incorrect. I see the draft minutes are available on the ICU site.
    rob51 wrote: »
    Since it is the 2014 - 2015 AGM at which the outgoing committee accounts for the year then the 2014 - 2015 membership must be valid. This was confirmed by the then Chairman two years ago at the AGM.

    They have (for all the time I've known) accepted both the same season AGM (2014-15 for the 2015 AGM) and the next year's membership (2015-16) for the 2015 AGM. However, this is when the AGM occurred during the summer months (i.e. in the middle of 2 seasons). Currently the AGM can only be in the 2015-16 season only. Odd scenario of a fully paid up member proposing a motion and then when the AGM occurs, the member mightn't be valid anymore. They need to clear this up immediately.

    I think, logically, it's the 2015-16 AGM as any motions effect the 2015-16 season (2015-16 Irish Championships). And nominees need to be ICU members for both the 2014-15 (nominated in the 2014 season) and 2015-16 (elected) seasons to stand for election. Though this would be in an ideal world....

    rob51 wrote: »
    I agree completely and there is no reason nominations should be any different. I questioned the notice period on the second official website yesterday but the comment or a response haven't appeared yet. Suggesting such a short response time during holiday time for ICU members to submit nominations and motions is ridiculous and in the case of motions clearly contradicts the Constitution.

    The notice period is a minimum, not a maximum unfortunately. The short notice for what could be an extended deadline and the planned short AGM, just make it feel like the executive don't want people at the AGM.


  • #34
    sinbad68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭sinbad68


    I don't understand this, people come on to this website, moan and ask questions about ICU actions, where there are No ICU executive ( couple of active boards.ie members who were ICU executive and provided info here were either banned or bullied out of here), Why don't they go to ICU's own "comment & question abled" site of http://www.irishchessunion.net/ where if you ask a question, I'm confident you will get a response from one of the executive, instead of asking it here, which is like a blind asking another blind for direction ?.
    reunion wrote: »
    They need to clear this up immediately.

    I'm afraid the extent of your empire is the moderation of this little corner ( chess section ) of this website and you CAN'T order ICU around.


  • #35
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Mod note - people are entitled to comment on relevant items (such as AGM protocol) without being told they shouldn't. Nobody has been bullied off this site, and those who were banned deserved it, having gone through the relevant documented procedures. Infraction added, and any more stirring like this will result in further infractions. If anyone has a problem with that, go to the facebook page or the comments section noted above. It's getting more than a little tiresome at this stage.


  • #36
    Retd.LoyolaCpt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    I think there was a misunderstanding here. I don't believe Sinbad was attacking anyone - except his usual back and forth with reunion. He was suggesting that reunion approach the executive themselves. Sinbad, knowing reunion as I (believe I) do, I'm certain he'd have no problem approaching the current board for answers. Also, he has run and been elected to positions in the past and done admirable work.

    I can understand that the language is sometimes grating on the nerves, and possibly crosses the line at times but we won't get anywhere if we are here talking to ourselves. From my knowledge of previous bans, sinbad is not on that level.

    Reunion (and anyone else who wishes to guarantee their say in October), I'd recommend you just sign up early as I've just done. We'll end up paying the membership anyway, and you won't be gaining anything by paying later. It does pain me to have my 35 euro in the hands of this executive and not the next one (for the time being I hope).. but what can you do.


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  • #37
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Rrydlny wrote: »
    Is there a reason the secretary is no longer listed on the ICU website?
    Note on the ICU website about it now - Eugene Donohoe has stepped in.


  • #38
    Retd.LoyolaCpt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    I've emailed the executive to get clarification on who is entitled to vote at the upcoming meetings; 2014-2015 members, 2015-2016 member or both. I'll update when i get a reply


  • #39
    reunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »
    I think there was a misunderstanding here. I don't believe Sinbad was attacking anyone - except his usual back and forth with reunion.

    I can understand that the language is sometimes grating on the nerves, and possibly crosses the line at times but we won't get anywhere if we are here talking to ourselves. From my knowledge of previous bans, sinbad is not on that level.


    If you wish to know why the infraction was applied, just give a mod a PM or if you think it was unfair report the post.
    Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »
    He was suggesting that reunion approach the executive themselves. Sinbad, knowing reunion as I (believe I) do, I'm certain he'd have no problem approaching the current board for answers. Also, he has run and been elected to positions in the past and done admirable work.

    Reunion (and anyone else who wishes to guarantee their say in October), I'd recommend you just sign up early as I've just done. We'll end up paying the membership anyway, and you won't be gaining anything by paying later. It does pain me to have my 35 euro in the hands of this executive and not the next one (for the time being I hope).. but what can you do.

    I have engaged with the current executive on a number of occasions this year, asking questions that were posted here. I actually wanted to pay my ICU fee for 2015/16 in May but the feature was unavailable (the note Desmond Beatty made about subscription based membership is a good one). I won't be able to attend the AGM or EGM (tickets to the rugby world cup) - but I would be proposing a motion or 2. It's sad to see that my submissions (however valid (or invalid)) will be rejected immediately because I am unable to attend the event.
    sinbad68 wrote: »
    instead of asking it here, which is like a blind asking another blind for direction ?.
    Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »
    I've emailed the executive to get clarification on who is entitled to vote at the upcoming meetings; 2014-2015 members, 2015-2016 member or both. I'll update when i get a reply

    See, it doesn't have to me constantly emailing the executive about queries. Other users here engage with the ICU. Sometimes a discussion about a point before emailing the executive can help.


  • #40
    Retd.LoyolaCpt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    Response from the Chairperson. I can't attached a screen shot but I'll give you the summary:

    the reason they want everything in 6 weeks early (according to this email) is so that they can confirm nominations before the end of the current membership year, August 31st. They want the 26th-31st to consider these nominations and motions so that they can announce these prior to the new membership year.

    This would mean that 2014-2015 alone would be eligible to vote.

    However, this also leaves open the possibility that if they issue after August 31st, then only 2015-2016 members will be eligible.

    Like I said before, I'd still urge anyone who plans on attending to sign up for 2015-2016 just in case although this seems to have cleared everything up.

    I've asked the chairperson to publish this on ICU site on the date he announces these motions and nominations


  • #41
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,036 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »
    Response from the Chairperson. I can't attached a screen shot but I'll give you the summary:

    the reason they want everything in 6 weeks early (according to this email) is so that they can confirm nominations before the end of the current membership year, August 31st. They want the 26th-31st to consider these nominations and motions so that they can announce these prior to the new membership year.

    This would mean that 2014-2015 alone would be eligible to vote.

    However, this also leaves open the possibility that if they issue after August 31st, then only 2015-2016 members will be eligible.

    Like I said before, I'd still urge anyone who plans on attending to sign up for 2015-2016 just in case although this seems to have cleared everything up.

    I've asked the chairperson to publish this on ICU site on the date he announces these motions and nominations

    Has it??


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  • #42
    Retd.LoyolaCpt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Has it??

    Well no :D

    But at least I can see the logic in why they want nominations 6 weeks early. Either way they'll be breaking the constitution - they'll either get nominations and motions 6 weeks in advance (when it should be 3 or 4 depending on the draft you read) or they'll be denying 2014-2015 members the chance to vote at an AGM


  • #43
    tedjennings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭tedjennings


    The Ex ccte have not thought through things:
    They ask for nominations for “Membership Officer”, “FIDE Delegate” &
    “Women's Officer” for the AGM ( that what the constitution says at the moment)

    However they propose to remove these positions a week before the AGM!!


  • #44
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    I guess if the positions don't get scrapped, they'd then end up with no nominations - so damned if you do, etc.


  • #45
    tedjennings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭tedjennings


    Hi, Reunion

    I proposed 3 motions at that meeting.

    Below is an extract from the minutes which seems to show 3 motions proposed by me.

    However these were one motion and accepted. (this had to be the case as if one was accepted and another not it would cause a conflict so all 3 or nothing)
    If you contention is correct then paragraph 3.2(f) refers to a non-existent Appendix.

    The second motion was (now that Appendix A exists) to put the “Code of Conduct” in it. This was rejected.
    The third motion was to put in the “Rules for Disciplining a Members”, however as this document refers to the “Code of Conduct” it could not be reasonably accepted so I withdrew it.
    I have a number of e-mails from the then Secretary K O’F to substantiate this.

    BTW Appendix A can contain other rules etc.

    It is proposed to amend the constitution of the ICU as follows to incorporate the new Code of Conduct and Rules for disciplining a member of the ICU.

    7A.1.1.
    Add this paragraph to Article 3.2
    f) To lay before the membership rules for the orderly running of the Union. These
    rules shall form Appendix A of this constitution and shall be adopted and/or
    amended by a General Meeting by simple majority and shall be binding on all
    members.
    7A.1.2.
    Add Appendix A to this constitution.
    7A.1.3
    Add the following to Article 13
    “The Executive Committee shall be bound by any rules contained in Appendix A.


  • #46
    rob51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭rob51


    tedjennings wrote: »
    The Ex ccte have not thought through things:
    They ask for nominations for “Membership Officer”, “FIDE Delegate” &
    “Women's Officer” for the AGM ( that what the constitution says at the moment)

    However they propose to remove these positions a week before the AGM!!
    Those positions are still in the current constitution (although as has been pointed out the actual current constitution as amended in 2014 doesn't seem to be available anywhere) and the executive can't assume they will be removed by the EGM. Therefore they must have candidates nominated.
    On the other hand it does raise the question of why the EGM couldn't happen several weeks before the AGM so that these issues were clear.


  • #47
    Sparks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Where in any constitution does it state that positions must be filled?
    They could just have left it so that nominations wouldn't be refused, but by the time the AGM rolled round, they would have been irrelevant.


  • #48
    rob51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭rob51


    reunion wrote: »
    They have (for all the time I've known) accepted both the same season AGM (2014-15 for the 2015 AGM) and the next year's membership (2015-16) for the 2015 AGM. However, this is when the AGM occurred during the summer months (i.e. in the middle of 2 seasons). Currently the AGM can only be in the 2015-16 season only. Odd scenario of a fully paid up member proposing a motion and then when the AGM occurs, the member mightn't be valid anymore. They need to clear this up immediately.

    I think, logically, it's the 2015-16 AGM as any motions effect the 2015-16 season (2015-16 Irish Championships). And nominees need to be ICU members for both the 2014-15 (nominated in the 2014 season) and 2015-16 (elected) seasons to stand for election. Though this would be in an ideal world....


    The notice period is a minimum, not a maximum unfortunately. The short notice for what could be an extended deadline and the planned short AGM, just make it feel like the executive don't want people at the AGM.

    Actually I think an AGM has three functions:
    1) The Executive account for their stewardship (or perhaps Bossiness) over the previous year;

    2) The membership consider motions and proposals for changes for the coming year;

    3) The Executive is elected for the coming year.

    Since the AGM marks the beginning of the new year and committee it is normally clear that members for the year just completed may attend and vote. In many cases the AGM actually approves the fees for the coming year so you can't rejoin until after the AGM.

    We now have a muddle where the new Executive is effectively elected two months into the new year!! Has anyone considered the potential for confusion with membership fees and accounting when the next treasurer is responsible for two months before they are elected!

    The Constitution should be changed back to having the AGM in early September before the season starts and after probably the quietest month August financially.


  • #49
    tedjennings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭tedjennings


    Sparks wrote: »
    Where in any constitution does it state that positions must be filled?
    They could just have left it so that nominations wouldn't be refused, but by the time the AGM rolled round, they would have been irrelevant.

    Rule 9.2 uses the word "shall consist of...."


  • #50
    Sparks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    tedjennings wrote: »
    Rule 9.2 uses the word "shall consist of...."

    But that's creating the office rather than saying that a person must be appointed to it. Empty seats are an unfortunately normal part of Irish sports admin because of the 2% rule.


  • #51
    sinbad68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭sinbad68


    tedjennings wrote: »
    Rule 9.2 uses the word "shall consist of...."

    Me thinking........ some times, some rules in icu constitution are taken far too seriously, after all icu constitution was written by a few grey haired men sitting around a table sipping C2H5OH, Not by some one going up a mountain and coming down with it on stone tablets !.


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