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UK forces kill own citizens in Syria

  • 07-09-2015 03:51PM
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭


    The British government authorised a drone attack on Reyaad Khan, a 21-year-old from Cardiff. Two other Isis fighters were killed in the attack on the Syrian city of Raqqa on 21 August. One of them, Ruhul Amin, was also British.“It was necessary and proportionate for the individual self-defence of the UK,” says PM Cameron
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/uk-forces-airstrike-killed-isis-briton-reyaad-khan-syria
    Is this state-sanctioned death penalty without trial? Extra-judicial murder by a western democracy?
    It strikes me as completely wrong, no matter what the individuals did.
    Where do you draw the line?


«1345678

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    If they are part of a war and on the enemies side then the fact they are British, Irish or Syrian doesnt matter.

    They were killed in combat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Cosmo K


    snubbleste wrote: »


    I draw the line at....traveling to a foreign country to join a bunch of religious extremists, who like to cut other people's heads off.

    He had it coming....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    The UK is not at war, though.
    This is the same as the KGB murdering a Russian citizen in London.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    snubbleste wrote: »
    The UK is not at war, though.
    This is the same as the KGB murdering a Russian citizen in London.

    It most definitely is not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    If we are cool with then bombing Syrians for doing terror, then we should also be cool with them bombing their British buddies for also doing the same terror.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 367 ✭✭justchecked


    m'eh, live by it..., 72 virgins, etc.

    thought story might be about innocents.



    ...not that they'd ever do that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭barry181091


    snubbleste wrote: »
    The UK is not at war, though.
    This is the same as the KGB murdering a Russian citizen in London.

    Yeah, it's not at all. These are just lunatics (Albeit, UK-born lunatics) going to fight with other lunatics.

    Like when you have a rat problem. Do you care that they are Irish rats when killing them?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,203 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    3 down only couple of thousand left to go.
    Fcuk em. Sooner they're all gone the better


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    This surely does bring in legal issues though. It has no moral implications for me ( except that this very same government is culpable in the destruction of Syria) but legally this is an act of war or an extra judicial execution.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    The UK is not involved in Syria, UK parliament never authorised military in Syria.
    It's an extra-judicial killing of two citizens in the sovereign territory of another country.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,770 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    This is nothing new, sure lovely cuddly Obama - most overrated president of the US ever, has also given orders to kill US citizens abroad.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    It's a shame the death toll wasn't higher.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    RobertKK wrote: »
    This is nothing new, sure lovely cuddly Obama - most overrated president of the US ever, has also given orders to kill US citizens abroad.

    He's effectively at war with 5 or 6 nations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    If Britain wanted to bomb British Islamic extremists, it would be quicker to bomb Bradford & Tower Hamlets.

    Less flying time needed.


    I don't think taking out a British jihadi abroad is illegal, but it seems a grey area.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭custard gannet


    snubbleste wrote: »
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/uk-forces-airstrike-killed-isis-briton-reyaad-khan-syria
    Is this state-sanctioned death penalty without trial? Extra-judicial murder by a western democracy?
    It strikes me as completely wrong, no matter what the individuals did.
    Where do you draw the line?

    Given that the promise to withdraw the citizenship of Irish nationals found to be fighting over there was the usual load of populist pandering guff that Fine Gael had no intention of following through I wish we would send an army rangers unit out there to kill off the 30 or so passport holders apparently over there. If nothing else it would rustle the jimmies of the Halawa fanboys on boards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    They went to join ISIS. The reality is they should've expected it. In fact, I'd support more of these drone strikes if it stops just one person going out there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    If Britain wanted to bomb British Islamic extremists, it would be quicker to bomb Bradford & Tower Hamlets.

    Less flying time needed.

    If that is fact can you cite a source please?

    If that's meant to be a joke, it was in poor taste.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    petrolcan wrote: »
    If that is fact can you cite a source please.

    It is a fact that there are Islamic extremists living in Britain

    A fact so blindingly obvious the easiest source is: 'Google'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    THese individuals had renounced their citizenship. There death is on their own hands, as is the blood of all Isis's victims. Its sad that two youths had to end up like this however, it isn't remotely sad that they were killed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭moc moc a moc


    petrolcan wrote: »
    If that is fact can you cite a source please?

    I don't think you quite get how After Hours works.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 436 ✭✭Old Jakey


    They were traitors to Britain and got what they deserved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,606 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    petrolcan wrote: »
    If that is fact can you cite a source please?

    If that's meant to be a joke, it was in poor taste.

    Think its more that a lot of his posts have a racist tone to them. He is not a racist obviously though to be clear.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    There death is on their own hands.

    That's a hell of a sentence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    jaykay74 wrote: »
    Think its more that a lot of his posts have a racist tone to them. He is not a racist obviously though to be clear.

    Yes, he clearly hates the race of Islam. The only race you can convert to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,606 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Yes, he clearly hates the race of Islam. The only race you can convert to.

    Oh you thought I was referring to a specific post. Okay.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Saipanne wrote: »
    That's a hell of a sentence.

    While not the finest English sentence ever written I am quite confident the meaning was clear to you, at the very least it ought to have been.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    jaykay74 wrote: »
    Oh you thought I was referring to a specific post. Okay.

    I didn't realise you were talking to yourself.

    Carry on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭RayCon


    fcuk 'em.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    It depends whether Cameron is telling the truth. If they were planning attacks against Britain, then it's somewhat justifiable. If they were fighting against Assad, then it's entirely unjustifiable - the West should be fighting against him as well, same as the God-awful military junta in Egypt, rather than arming them. The majority of the people in both countries have decided that they do not want either of those regimes ruling them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    It depends whether Cameron is telling the truth. If they were planning attacks against Britain, then it's somewhat justifiable. If they were fighting against Assad, then it's entirely unjustifiable -

    ISIS are fighting against Assad. Should we support them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    snubbleste wrote: »
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/uk-forces-airstrike-killed-isis-briton-reyaad-khan-syria
    Is this state-sanctioned death penalty without trial? Extra-judicial murder by a western democracy?
    It strikes me as completely wrong, no matter what the individuals did.
    Where do you draw the line?


    If they did a drone strike on a bed-sit in Cardiff, maybe. However he was out in the field with the lads, armed and rarin to go. There's not much you can do there except deal with the problem in front of you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,145 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    the West should be fighting against him as well,

    The West fighting against Assad is in no small part the reason for the current clusterfcuk in Syria.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    It is a fact that there are Islamic extremists living in Britain

    A fact so blindingly obvious the easiest source is: 'Google'

    So it was, in reality, a swipe at residents of Bradford and Tower Hamlets.

    Bravo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    I don't think you quite get how After Hours works.

    Racist!







    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The West fighting against Assad is in no small part the reason for the current clusterfcuk in Syria.

    Fighting assad who now has Russian troops and fighter aircraft fighting for him.

    But as for the current topic ,


    Rightous kill.

    Wonder if they will release the kill cam


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    Sigh. Opening posts like in this thread irritate me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gatling wrote: »
    Fighting assad who now has Russian troops and fighter aircraft fighting for him.

    But as for the current topic ,


    Rightous kill.

    Wonder if they will release the kill cam


    Why? Will it make them any deader?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Nodin wrote: »
    Why? Will it make them any deader?

    Makes great viewing then show the video/s of others in schools and mosques and show how the game ends


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,145 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Gatling wrote: »
    Fighting assad who now has Russian troops and fighter aircraft fighting for him.

    What's your point?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    If they are part of a war and on the enemies side then the fact they are British, Irish or Syrian doesnt matter.

    They were killed in combat.

    Is Britain at war against the persons or their affiliation? When was the declaration? And do Geneva conventions apply? You can't have it both ways. You can't determine that the victims are enemy fighters but then ignore the stipulations that go with that determination.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    What's your point?

    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭Notorious97


    Why does anyone actually care? Anyone who runs off to join this lot deserves what they get. I say kill em all and let God sort them out since they figure it is their destiny.

    No sympathy for any ISIS fighter being killed, the suffering they are inflicting on millions is shocking. They need to be hunted down and killed, why bother putting them on trial and wasting any nations taxes on prison care for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hans Bricks


    Any self respecting British citizen would be glad their government shows complete disregard to the political status of these loyal "citizens".


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Cosmo K wrote: »
    I draw the line at....traveling to a foreign country to join a bunch of religious extremists, who like to cut other people's heads off.

    He had it coming....

    Why does the method of killing cause you to change your rationale. That's a bit cowardly, no?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Any self respecting British citizen would be glad their government shows complete disregard to the political status of these loyal "citizens".

    Funny how the Geneva convention all ways pops up when dealing with terrorists though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,037 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    these sad pair of b@stards are no loss

    hopefully there will be plenty more


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    petrolcan wrote: »
    So it was, in reality, a swipe at residents of Bradford and Tower Hamlets.

    Medical science should investigate whether a bleeding heart starves oxygen to the rational parts of the brain......


    Extremists order east London Muslims to boycott election vote in Tower Hamlets
    Two different types of leaflets were distributed in Tower Hamlets. One with the words “Don’t vote” and “#StayMuslimDontVote”. It also said: “None have the right to legislate except Allah.

    Islamic extremism concerns at Tower Hamlets school
    Council holds information concerning the possible Islamification of Kobi Nazrul Primary School in Whitechapel.

    The FoI request demanded details of alleged attempts to infiltrate any school by Islamic extremists in the borough, subvert the school's teaching, or oversee the increasing Islamification of lessons.


    Police raid unlicensed Islamic school in east London
    Counter-terrorism officers have raided an unlicensed Islamic school operating out of a back street in east London with links to the extremist group al-Muhajiroun and a controversial Islamic radical.

    Officials at Tower Hamlets council and the Department for Education fear the Siddeeq Academy may be operating as an unregulated school beneath its guise as a tuition centre offering subjects including Arabic and Islamic studies.


    UK police raid ‘illegal’ Islamic school suspected of terror links
    Counter terrorism police have raided an “illegal” Islamic school in London suspected of having links to the banned Islamist group Al-Muhajiroon.

    Officers forcibly entered the Siddeeq Academy, reportedly an unlicensed tuition center, in the London borough of Tower Hamlets, as part of an ongoing counter-terror operation across London


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,145 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Gatling wrote: »
    Fighting assad who now has Russian troops and fighter aircraft fighting for him.
    What's your point?
    Gatling wrote: »
    .

    If you feel like responding in a manner not befitting a 6 year old, I'd still love to hear what point you were making.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Is this state-sanctioned death penalty without trial?

    Yes
    snubbleste wrote: »
    Extra-judicial murder by a western democracy?

    No.
    snubbleste wrote: »
    It strikes me as completely wrong, no matter what the individuals did.

    No.
    snubbleste wrote: »
    Where do you draw the line?

    Genocide, mass rape, televised executions and torture.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    If you feel like responding in a manner not befitting a 6 year old, I'd still love to hear what point you were making.

    Well see America the uk and arab coalition can't fight Isis who in turn are selling oil to the assad regime while russia are actively fighting a the assad regimes civil war on his behalf .
    We have a cluster **** that's got alot more complicated lately .
    Wonder if isreal will take issue with Russia getting involved now and decide remove assad


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