Wife can't let a friendship with female colleague go

ceadaoin. · 24-10-2015 08:45PM

OneOfThem wrote: »

Sounds like you're being too spineless tbh. Months this has been going on? Months of your wife starting a nasty row every single day? Months? Genuinely? Tell her she needs to drop it. Now. Permanently. Or it'd be best if you two part ways. Enough is enough for crying out loud. She's not a child. She shouldn't get to act like one. What other choice do you have? Let months become years? Same sh1te? Fvck that. That's no kind of life.

I'd imagine his wife his finding it hard to let it go due to the fact that the OP is minimizing the whole thing and not being completely honest with her. She knows there is more to it. He has admitted here that he was/is attracted to this woman. I doubt he has told his wife this.

His OP tried to portray it as a totally innocent friendship when it is clearly anything but. Buying personal gifts for her, spending an excessive amount of time with her to the detriment of his other shops and his marriage, joining the same gym etc. That is way overstepping the boundaries of a normal working relationship and is veering into affair territory. He has done something wrong and doesn't sound very sorry about it.

Carlos Orange · 24-10-2015 08:50PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

joining the same gym etc. That is way overstepping the boundaries of a normal working relationship

Do you really think it is normal to switch gyms just because someone you work with joins the same gym?

Colser · 24-10-2015 08:56PM

If they were never at the gym at the same time(seemingly) why did his wife find gym related messages on his phone?

ceadaoin. · 24-10-2015 08:58PM

psinno wrote: »

Do you really think it is normal to switch gyms just because someone you work with joins the same gym?

Of course not, but this wasn't a normal working relationship. In this situation, combined with all the other stuff, you have to admit it looks suspicious.

The OP should have realised that this was yet another boundary being crossed and taken a step back. Instead, he allowed the situation to continue until someone else blew the whistle on them.

Neyite · 24-10-2015 09:21PM

OP, in your wife's eyes its an emotional affair. Often for a lot of people, physical cheating is not what causes the damage. Its finding out your spouse has feelings for another person- whether acted on, or not. Its the sustained lies and the secrets kept from them. Its the intimacy of private chats with another person. And it was with an employee, so was not only morally dubious from a marriage point of view, but also from a professional one.

One thing that I wonder is, while you were giving Mary birthday gifts (that in itself is NOT a boss-employee norm) bonuses, and treats here and there to show you appreciate her, were you equally giving your wife nice gifts or a few extra quid to spend on herself? Because if you werent, then its no wonder that she is annoyed at you - its not the gifts, its the intimacy of the gifts and what they represent.

Another thing that is coming across is your reluctance to minimise contact with Mary to professional contact only - that speaks volumes because its telling your wife loud and clear that Mary's feelings come before hers.

Say your wife has a male version of Mary in her role as a manager. You know she fancies him, showers him with gifts on his birthday, hides texts and meetings from you regarding him, then wont cut him loose to focus on repairing the hurt she caused you through her action, you'd be questioning her commitment to you too.

You got emotionally close to an employee. To the extent that you pissed off your other staff, and rocked the foundations of your marriage. Cut contact with Mary and go to counselling with your wife and see if you can save your relationship.

OhDearyMe · 25-10-2015 01:08AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'd imagine his wife his finding it hard to let it go due to the fact that the OP is minimizing the whole thing and not being completely honest with her. She knows there is more to it. He has admitted here that he was/is attracted to this woman. I doubt he has told his wife this.

Though I do see it from the wife's POV, he didn't admit he was attracted to her.

seenitall · 25-10-2015 02:25AM

Post #12, first paragraph.

walter black wrote: »

if im honest with myself,there has being an emotional attraction

LegacyUser · 25-10-2015 08:42AM

if im honest with myself,there has being an emotional attraction

But have you been honest with your wife? You say counselling isn't working and that the fights are just continuing, daily. That's because your wife knows that there's more to this than you're admitting. So far anything she 'knows' she has had to snoop to find out. And I'd guess bit by bit she's finding out a bit more. Maybe bit by bit you're admitting to a little bit more.

I've been there, except my husband's "friendship" went a bit further. We had the daily fights, for months. Because for months I knew he was lying to me. I heard here one time, a liar will only admit to what they've been caught out on. And that's what my husband did. Bit by bit I found out more, and bit by bit he admitted more. Every time telling me " you know everything now". Only for me to find something else out a while later.

I have to agree with the poster who said it's the emotional intimacy that hurts the most. My husband kissed a colleague. A few times over a number of months. This devastated me. But the emotional relationship they had cut me to the bone. The hours they spent on the phone. The thousands (yes, thousands) of texts they sent each other. The intimate talks they had. Etc. Ok, our marriage had it's troubles. But rather than decide to work on those with me, he chose to confide in her.

That is beyond humiliating for me. I have been crushed. My life turned upside down. He, like you kept trying to minimise it. Telling me it wasn't really cheating because they didn't have sex (I still don't know whether they did or not, but it's irrelevant anyway). I told him I was hurting just as much as if he did. He doesn't understand that though. His response was actually "Maybe I should have gone out and got me hole then". Nice.

OP, please google "husband had emotional affair". And please try to get an idea of where your wife is coming from. In order to get past this she's the one that has to hard work to do. She's the one that has to go through the hurt, humiliation, betrayal. She's the one that has to "get over it" and "move on", and unfortunately it's not always that easy. And it's not fair that after doing nothing wrong, the onus is now on her to make the relationship work.

You betrayed your wife. You betrayed your marriage. The hurt she is feeling is no less than if you had a physical affair, so stop trying to minimise it. You had an inappropriate relationship with another woman. And this is a woman that you still have contact with. Whether you believe it or not, or try to put it down to her jealousy that is devastating your wife.

You need to acknowledge that. To her. To yourself. You messed up. Big time. Minimising and somehow blaming your wife for being unreasonable or overreacting is not the way forward. Trust me. It did nothing to help my marriage! You need to acknowledge her hurt. Acknowledge you have caused her hurt. And acknowledge that the hard work to rebuild your marriage is on her shoulders. Not yours. All you have to do is nothing!

I hope you can get through this. But this is something that has been building for 18 months. You're only 2 months into the recovery.

It's going to take an awful lot longer.

The only question is, are you prepared to stick it out for as long as it takes?

zeffabelli · 25-10-2015 08:59AM

1. Gifts, pay rises etc in conjunction with the amicable chemistry... Big mistake. Anthropological studies across the world show women DO NOT like money going to another woman even more than they hate affairs!!!!

2. A woman who respects your marriage will make good friends with your wife. Even with good make friends I had BEFORE they got married, once they did we'd I made sure to be good friends with their wives and even now most of my contact is through the wives. And that goes double for new male friends.

3. If I can't befriend their wives than back off.

You completely blurred the boundaries of course she is jealous!

Jon Stark · 25-10-2015 09:16AM

Neyite wrote: »

OP, in your wife's eyes its an emotional affair. Often for a lot of people, physical cheating is not what causes the damage. Its finding out your spouse has feelings for another person- whether acted on, or not. Its the sustained lies and the secrets kept from them. Its the intimacy of private chats with another person. And it was with an employee, so was not only morally dubious from a marriage point of view, but also from a professional one.

One thing that I wonder is, while you were giving Mary birthday gifts (that in itself is NOT a boss-employee norm) bonuses, and treats here and there to show you appreciate her, were you equally giving your wife nice gifts or a few extra quid to spend on herself? Because if you werent, then its no wonder that she is annoyed at you - its not the gifts, its the intimacy of the gifts and what they represent.

Another thing that is coming across is your reluctance to minimise contact with Mary to professional contact only - that speaks volumes because its telling your wife loud and clear that Mary's feelings come before hers.

Say your wife has a male version of Mary in her role as a manager. You know she fancies him, showers him with gifts on his birthday, hides texts and meetings from you regarding him, then wont cut him loose to focus on repairing the hurt she caused you through her action, you'd be questioning her commitment to you too.

You got emotionally close to an employee. To the extent that you pissed off your other staff, and rocked the foundations of your marriage. Cut contact with Mary and go to counselling with your wife and see if you can save your relationship.

He already said in his follow up post that he only goes to the shop when absolutely necessary now. Also, I don't think it was their relationship that pissed off the employee, but rather it was being called out on her work ethic by someone who isn't her boss.

OP there's not a lot I can say that would help your marriage, as it isn't a speciality of mine.

The only thing I will say is that it's perhaps time to start thinking about how you're going to protect your share of the business if your wife or you decide to call time.

LegacyUser · 25-10-2015 12:29PM

Just to add

...she always had a jealous streak about Mary,but i always put her at ease when she did say something,thing is i never told her about any gifts i bought her...

So your wife isn't a jealous person in general. She was just (rightly) jealous of this budding "friendship" you had. Your wife would have noticed a switch in your behaviour since Mary began working for you. You say you handed over the running of that one shop to her because she was so good. Yet you spent all the time there to the point of neglecting the other two shops. (Your words) Of course your wife noticed. And of course other employees noticed. Which adds to the humiliation for your wife.

Saying you always put her at ease, whilst lying to her about the extent of the friendship, is not putting her at ease. It's lying to her about the extent of your friendship!

I don't think you were deliberately trying to hurt your wife. I just think you were very foolish. At times over the past 12 months when your wife mentioned things she was uneasy about with your "friendship", would that not have been your cue to step back from the friendship a little? If this was a purely plutonic friendship with nothing to hide then I would say your wife was being unreasonable having a problem with it. But your friendship was more than that. Your wife (and other employees) noticed it was more than that. So you were naive in the extreme to continue it along the same path. Not to mention unprofessional.

You didn't mean to hurt your wife. But unfortunately that is the result of your actions. Not much for you to do now except weather the storm and hope you can rebuild the trust. But it won't happen in 2 months. And in future don't get so close to any employee. No matter how good they are. Christmas presents might be ok. Once they are given to all employees. Birthday presents are crossing a line. Reward good work with bonuses in pay cheques.

Another day · 25-10-2015 02:35PM

In my previous post I kept to what you can do to survive this mountain, not a bump, in your marriage. I kept it impartial as I was in your wife's position many years ago. In the end my exh decided to leave, and moved in with her a few months later...

If you really, genuinely want to save your marriage, may I suggest that you be 100% totally honest with your wife? Do this by putting pen to paper and put everything in it. And I mean everything. Accept responsibility, be humble and ask for forgiveness. Tell her all about your 'relationship ' with Mary. Tell her about how you feel in your marriage. What she means to you. What you want for both your futures. Tell her how sorry you are but also how the daily fights are getting you nowhere. Which is why you need to be completely honest. So there is no more for her to find out. She will have ALL the information to make a decision on whether this is forgivable or not. Be balanced in your wording, accept you were wrong, but also that you both have to work through this together for your marriage to survive.

Why write it down? Because spoken words can go unheard. Written words can be reread and absorbed. I would leave for a few days, stay with parents/family while she figures it out in her head. Arrange to meet alone a couple of days later to discuss where you are both going to go with your marriage based on all the information.

Once you have done this you will both know where you stand and can make decisions based on full disclosure. You may not like the outcome but at least you will both know where you are heading. Uncertainty at the moment is probably killing you both

Best of luck.

LegacyUser · 26-10-2015 05:53PM

Another day wrote: »

In my previous post I kept to what you can do to survive this mountain, not a bump, in your marriage. I kept it impartial as I was in your wife's position many years ago. In the end my exh decided to leave, and moved in with her a few months later...

If you really, genuinely want to save your marriage, may I suggest that you be 100% totally honest with your wife? Do this by putting pen to paper and put everything in it. And I mean everything. Accept responsibility, be humble and ask for forgiveness. Tell her all about your 'relationship ' with Mary. Tell her about how you feel in your marriage. What she means to you. What you want for both your futures. Tell her how sorry you are but also how the daily fights are getting you nowhere. Which is why you need to be completely honest. So there is no more for her to find out. She will have ALL the information to make a decision on whether this is forgivable or not. Be balanced in your wording, accept you were wrong, but also that you both have to work through this together for your marriage to survive.

Why write it down? Because spoken words can go unheard. Written words can be reread and absorbed. I would leave for a few days, stay with parents/family while she figures it out in her head. Arrange to meet alone a couple of days later to discuss where you are both going to go with your marriage based on all the information.

Once you have done this you will both know where you stand and can make decisions based on full disclosure. You may not like the outcome but at least you will both know where you are heading. Uncertainty at the moment is probably killing you both

Best of luck.

Op, you need to escape this abusive relationship as soon as you can. No one has the right to push you towards a nervous breakdown and your wife's reaction is bizarre for a fairly minor mistake.

Men can be and are the victims of domestic abuse. This is emotional abuse of the worst sort and you need to protect your sanity.

Get a good solicitor and get out.

Emotional abuse can be devastating, good luck.

homerjay2005 · 26-10-2015 07:16PM

the wife seems very unreasonable here. she either trusts the OP or she doesnt and this to me means a very insecure woman who now wants to make the man suffer and grovel for the rest of his life - she will control everything and the man wont have any life in a few months time, he will have to justify everything, answer to everything, change his entire life just because a woman isnt mature enough to grow up and move on.

she either forgets it and moves on or this will only get worse - the term emotional affair was one that was invented to give woman something to feel victimised over when they have no proof or belief that an actual affair took place. if the OP gave the bonus/gifts to a male friend, would there be such support for the wife here?

i doubt it.

discus · 26-10-2015 07:52PM

Why write it down? Because spoken words can go unheard. Written words can be reread and absorbed. I would leave for a few days, stay with parents/family while she figures it out in her head. Arrange to meet alone a couple of days later to discuss where you are both going to go with your marriage based on all the information.

OP, you don't have to become a transient and live on a friends couch, just because your wife can't get over a working relationship you had.

I have a feeling OPs wife is projecting here.

LegacyUser · 26-10-2015 10:35PM

OP,

No one has the right to push you to the brink of a nervous breakdown. You are currently experiencing very serious emotional domestic abuse.

There are support services for men in your situation, you need professional support immediately.

I would also suggest legal advice as a priority.

No matter what you did (which was wrong but not unforgivable) your wife is completely out of line, no adult should resort to her behaviour.

pookie82 · 27-10-2015 10:16AM

LegoFriends wrote: »

In order to get past this she's the one that has to hard work to do. She's the one that has to go through the hurt, humiliation, betrayal. She's the one that has to "get over it" and "move on", and unfortunately it's not always that easy. And it's not fair that after doing nothing wrong, the onus is now on her to make the relationship work.

This really hits the nail on the head for me. Why is the WIFE now the one who needs to calm down and drop it and move on? She's not the one who behaved inappropriately and this suggestion that's churned out again and again when men cheat/have emotional affairs is astounding.

"You have to decide to trust him and move on". Well maybe some day, after a lot of work and soul searching, she'll find it in her to regain the trust he has just shattered, but it'll take a bit longer than a couple of months, and if the OP is upset about this, tough. He should be working WITH her, not against her by accusing her of being jealous and overreacting. His OP reeks of the fact that he thinks she's making a mountain out of a molehill here.

OP, if the home situation is as toxic as you say, would you consider moving out for a while? Perhaps she needs space and time to really process this and decide if she can get past it. I would underline to her that moving out is not an intention to break up, just to give her some space. Also persist with counselling ... it won't work overnight but eventually it could help you to mend things.

And for the love of god, no more private texts with this Mary one. For all intents and purposes, delegate her management to someone else and cut her off. You've admitted in your second post there was an emotional attraction there - stop playing with fire and making out your wife needs to "get over it". Shocking behaviour and the kind that can only be attributed to someone who's either extremely naive or extremely self-entitled at the expense of the woman he married.

LegacyUser · 27-10-2015 03:53PM

God, where do I begin with this OP. I could easily be your wife, I could be reading my own husbands situation...

What shocks me most about some of the replies here is blaming the wife. She has every right to be hurt, shocked, angry etc. She is not being abusive so cut that crap right out. She's so hurt, her world has been rocked. She is trying to process everything that is happening. In a way she is grieving - she has lost trust. The most crucial and vital component of a relationship. And it can take years for that trust to be built up again.

You lied to her, you kept things from her. You cannot blame her 'jealousy' for this but your cowardice. That's what I see here. You knew she might get upset if she knew you were giving this woman preferential treatment so instead of just telling her and TRUSTING your wife, you decided to keep it from her. It was always going to come out, whether the ex employee said anything or not. Because affairs, emotional or physical, always come out.

With my own situation, my partner started acting strangely. Very so slightly but enough for me to do a bit of 'digging' and find out all sorts....

If you truly truly love your wife and see a future with her, give her time and space. Try not to react when she gets angry - while its hard its her way of trying to process things. It will get easier for her. I know, as I said, I've been there. She is completely caught up in a sh*tstorm right now of emotions. She needs support and understanding. Please give it to her. Good luck.

Sleepy · 28-10-2015 02:11PM

icouldbeyourwife wrote: »

She has every right to be hurt, shocked, angry etc. She is not being abusive so cut that crap right out.

Would her anger justify hitting him too then?

Starting screaming matches on a daily basis is abuse. I have to listen to the poor chap who lives next door get roared at every other day and I can guarantee he's only putting up with it because our perverted legal system would grant his abuser custody of their kids.

Stop trivialising her actions. The OP let himself get too close to an employee. He didn't so much as kiss her, nevermind conduct an on-going sexual relationship with her. Did he over-step the mark? Clearly. Is counselling a good idea? Certainly. Do his actions entitle her to treat him like a punchbag? Of course not.

OP, bring this up at your next counselling session. Perhaps you could diffuse the argument by not responding in kind? If she's screaming, keep your calm and ask if it's perhaps something you can discuss in counselling this week?

TBH, I'd set a deadline on this. Either your wife accepts what has happened, leaves it in the past and you both work on improving your marriage or you call it a day and put whatever arrangements are necessary in place with regards to the kids / the business etc.

K_P · 28-10-2015 02:27PM

Sleepy wrote: »

Would her anger justify hitting him too then?

Where has the OP said that his wife hits him? Of course she wouldn't be justified in hitting him but she is entirely justified in feeling hurt, confused, angry, suspicious. There is a world of difference between those two behaviours - one is the behaviour of an abuser and the other the behaviour a deeply hurt and betrayed spouse.

I agree that two months on, daily screaming matches is a bit extreme, but the OP's language here in minimising the extent of what happened is quite possibly reflected in how he speaks about it to his wife which wont' help. If the OP refers to the inappropriately close relationship with Mary as "friendship" in front of his wife then he's flat out lying to her face and she knows it. He's admitted here that he was attracted to her. If he's denying this to his wife, she's probably starting the screaming matches every day because she's anxious and on edge as she has no idea what really went on between her husband and Mary.

OP, I'd actually suggest some individual counselling for you both as it will allow you to be calmer and more reflective about what happened, your behaviours, your reactions, your relationship as a whole. With the couples counselling it's possible you may both be re-hashing the same arguments over and over again and to no avail.

I wish you the best OP, but I think the first step in this is to own up to what your relationship with Mary truly was. Or try to see it from your wife's perspective. It was clearly more than a friendship and each time you call it that, you're hurting your wife more.

Stranger Danger · 28-10-2015 02:32PM

OP, I think you've done very little wrong and your wife is behaving like a total nut-job.

The level of emotional abuse she is currently putting you through is beyond unacceptable.

She needs to recognise this and apologise.

Otherwise I'd suggest you leave her for you own mental wellbeing.

LegacyUser · 28-10-2015 03:04PM

Sleepy - never saw where he mentioned she hit him. This is different. But please show me where he said it.

Stranger Danger - he has done a lot wrong. How can you justify his actions as 'very little'?

He has lied to the woman who he is meant to love and trust, above all other women.

How about her mental wellbeing? She has been destroyed by his actions so she should just suck it up and let him be? Wow. It amazes me that there are people like you who think she is the one in the wrong here. She is not a 'nut job' as you so nicely put it. She is hurt and angry.

I agree that this cannot continue, for both the OP and his wife's sake but please take it from someone who has been something very similar - it takes time. A lot of time. And patience. And crying. Some days will be good. Some days will be bad, some very bad. Its a process....

You need to be 100% honest with her - don't tell her what you think will minimise the damage. She already knows in her heart the true extent of your attachment to this woman but she needs to hear you say it. And only then will you be able to start rebuilding your life together.

I agree with Sleepy in setting a deadline. Life cannot continue like this but it is still early days. Two months is not a long time to recover after a betrayal as big as this.

He may have had no sexual contact with Mary, but I agree with a former poster, the emotional attachment can be as damaging as the physical....

pookie82 · 28-10-2015 03:07PM

K_P wrote: »

It was clearly more than a friendship and each time you call it that, you're hurting your wife more.

Exactly. If you keep belittling the extent of what you did, how can you hope to regain trust? Surely, in the current set up, you're open to do it again with someone else, hypothetically, and claim a misguided "friendship" again if caught? That's not what it was. You overstepped boundaries as an employer AND as a married man.

That's how your wife sees it. Own up to all you felt for Mary, all the lies, why you acted the way you did, and accept the hurt, confusion and yes - anger - that will follow. If you feel the anger and arguments are unbearable, move out for a while and give your wife some space.

homerjay2005 · 28-10-2015 04:06PM

how on earth is a "relationship" that has nothing attached to it "more than a friendship"?

there is no attraction here apart from a respect for what the woman did for the OPs business. if the employee was a male, would everybody be questioning his se*uality and saying he maybe gay? no way.

its a case here (and its a growing trend on boards over the last few months) where woman believe that men are not allowed to have a close friendship with females. it started off as a once off, but theres a thread about this every second day now and people are starting to jump on it now as if its completely unacceptable and its getting ridiculous.

the OP did nothing wrong here, the wife sounds like a bitter, jealous drama queen.

Sleepy · 28-10-2015 04:16PM

K_P wrote: »

Where has the OP said that his wife hits him? Of course she wouldn't be justified in hitting him but she is entirely justified in feeling hurt, confused, angry, suspicious. There is a world of difference between those two behaviours - one is the behaviour of an abuser and the other the behaviour a deeply hurt and betrayed spouse.

"Deeply hurt and betrayed" spouses commit thousnds of murders every year. Does that justify murder? No. So it doesn't justify screaming and roaring at someone either imo.

K_P · 28-10-2015 04:23PM

Sleepy wrote: »

"Deeply hurt and betrayed" spouses commit thousnds of murders every year. Does that justify murder? No. So it doesn't justify screaming and roaring at someone either imo.

Are you seriously equating arguing with murder?

Because the sliding scale of negative reactions to bad behaviour ends in murder, no negative reaction is allowed at all?

K_P · 28-10-2015 04:27PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if the employee was a male, would everybody be questioning his se*uality and saying he maybe gay? no way.

If the employee was male and the OP said:

walter black wrote: »

as some people have pointed out,there has being nothing going on with Mary in any way sexual,but if im honest with myself,there has being an emotional attraction

Then probably, yeah. Clearly, there was an attraction there beyond an admiration for Mary's business acumen.

Sleepy · 28-10-2015 04:27PM

No, I'm saying unacceptable behaviour is exactly that: unacceptable. Being "deeply hurt and betrayed" doesn't give anyone licence to behave abusively towards their partner. A once-off, short, out-burst of shouting might be understandable but prolonged. daily verbal abuse? That's as bad, if not worse than, the OP's behaviour imo.

Flippyfloppy · 28-10-2015 04:29PM

In the opening post the op stated that when his wife was told about the alleged affair she started 'doing a lot of shouting and screaming' (op did you actually listen to what she had to say)

He then went on to say there are screaming matches every day between each other. So it doesn't sound one sided, OP too is screaming at his wife.

For the record , there was lies between business partners & husband & wife here, Not by the wife, by the OP.

Stranger Danger · 28-10-2015 04:33PM

icouldbeyourwife wrote: »

He may have had no sexual contact with Mary, but I agree with a former poster, the emotional attachment can be as damaging as the physical....

So if you're a bloke, you basically can't be friends with anyone else if you're in a relationship?

Riiiiiiight.

You have done nothing wrong OP - or at least nothing wrong enough to warrant the way your wife is currently acting.

This thread is chock-full of the usual man-bashers this forum regularly attracts. Don't let them try to convince you that she is the victim and you are the one at fault.

You are the victim OP.

Wife can't let a friendship with female colleague go

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