General Star Trek thread

helimachoptor · 12-09-2012 10:17pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well it can be removed if it's against the rules or whatever

http://www.adverts.ie/dvd/star-trek-the-next-generation-complete-boxset/2077956

I'll take sixty for it if anyone wants it, just if I put the price down as 60 on adverts every smart ****er on there will offer 30.

I'd be interested but have them downloaded mate, hopefully a fan will pick them up

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 12-09-2012 10:18pm

someone did earlier today, forgot to edit the post

Pride Fighter · 13-09-2012 3:12am

Just watched the first series of TNG again on Pick TV. I always thought it was the weakest season of TNG but cannot help but thinking it is better than I thought. Way better than any of the first 2 DS9 seasons, but obviously seasons 3-7 of DS9, its hard to come close to any of them for any series of Trek.

Cannot wait for Negilum in series 2, what a badass episode

Myrddin · 13-09-2012 8:39am

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Cannot wait for Negilum in series 2, what a badass episode

Where Silence Has Lease...love it :cool:

Myrddin · 14-09-2012 5:11pm

Voyager, Season 1 -Eye Of The Needle

Not too bad an episode considering it was so early in the first season. Kim discovers a tiny wormhole that leads to the Alpha Quadrant, though it later transpires to be a rift in time too which means the other end of the wormhole was 20 years in the past.

I still believe they could have done better things with the premise though.

Beefy78 · 14-09-2012 5:21pm

Yeah I remember quite enjoying that episode and thought that the concept was good. I'm going to start a Voyager watch soon. I think there's almost certainly a few episodes that I've never seen in the middle there somewhere.

I just started the 8-episode final DS9 arc. Watched the first one last night. I remember the meat of the plot from here but I can't have seen these episodes since 2000 I'd have thought. Very good television.

downwithpeace · 14-09-2012 5:37pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Voyager, Season 1 -Eye Of The Needle

Not too bad an episode considering it was so early in the first season. Kim discovers a tiny wormhole that leads to the Alpha Quadrant, though it later transpires to be a rift in time too which means the other end of the wormhole was 20 years in the past.

I still believe they could have done better things with the premise though.

It's a standout episode in the entire series but it suffers from to much Harry Kim, other then that it's an enjoyable use of time rather then the standard screwy time based episodes.

Beefy78 wrote: »

I just started the 8-episode final DS9. Watched the first one last night. I remember the meat of the plot from here but I can't have seen these episodes since 2000 I'd have thought. Very good television.

Agreed and I might watch them again over the weekend

Goldstein · 14-09-2012 7:02pm

Theoretically speaking, if you could get 1,000s of trekkies to all shout "SOLD!!!!" at the same time, would it sound like the Borg?

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/ed19/?pfm=rightcolumn_NewStuffFTW_2

downwithpeace · 14-09-2012 7:29pm

I like, staying on that site there's an interesting T-Shirt with a Zombie Red Shirt with the caption "He's undead Jim".

norrie rugger · 14-09-2012 7:44pm

Other than it looks like it would end up stabbing me, I would be all over this

Pride Fighter · 15-09-2012 2:41am

EnterNow wrote: »

Voyager, Season 1 -Eye Of The Needle

Not too bad an episode considering it was so early in the first season. Kim discovers a tiny wormhole that leads to the Alpha Quadrant, though it later transpires to be a rift in time too which means the other end of the wormhole was 20 years in the past.

I still believe they could have done better things with the premise though.

Great episode, feels very next generation.

What does my head in about Voyager is the Kazon. The best speed on their ships is warp 2, yet Voyager keeps having run ins with Culadh (sp) for nearly 2 years. Makes no sense at all to me.

somuj · 16-09-2012 9:02am

Pride Fighter wrote: »

EnterNow wrote: »

Voyager, Season 1 -Eye Of The Needle

Not too bad an episode considering it was so early in the first season. Kim discovers a tiny wormhole that leads to the Alpha Quadrant, though it later transpires to be a rift in time too which means the other end of the wormhole was 20 years in the past.

I still believe they could have done better things with the premise though.

Great episode, feels very next generation.

What does my head in about Voyager is the Kazon. The best speed on their ships is warp 2, yet Voyager keeps having run ins with Culadh (sp) for nearly 2 years. Makes no sense at all to me.

Janeway made so may pitstops to check out every astronomical anomaly and chat to anyone who didnt want to blow the ship to smitherings. Tis the galactic version of the tortise and the hare.

Kiith · 16-09-2012 7:31pm

You know what i hate? Something bad is happening, and the Enterprise needs to get there quickly.

So Picard increases to Warp 8. Why not 9?

BULLER · 16-09-2012 7:35pm

Kiith wrote: »

You know what i hate? Something bad is happening, and the Enterprise needs to get there quickly.

So Picard increases to Warp 8. Why not 9?

Because that ship couldn't maintain warp 9 for very long perhaps?! Thats why he sometimes says "best possible speed". Takes into account the distance...

Cookie_Monster · 17-09-2012 2:02am

BULLER wrote: »

Because that ship couldn't maintain warp 9 for very long perhaps?! Thats why he sometimes says "best possible speed". Takes into account the distance...

memory alpha wrote:

The Enterprise had a maximum sustainable speed of warp 9.6 for twelve hours.

presumably somewhere between 8-9 was the sustainable cruising speed.

compared to intrepid class for example

The warp drive allowed the ship a top sustainable cruise velocity of warp factor 9.975

norrie rugger · 17-09-2012 7:35am

Galaxy class had a top cruising speed of 9.6 afaik

ItHurtsWhenIP · 17-09-2012 3:15pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Galaxy class had a top cruising speed of 9.6 afaik

Only for 12 hours apparently ... http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class

Memory Alpha wrote:

Speed:
Warp 9.8 (Possible at an extreme risk)
Warp 9.6 (12 hours)
Warp 9.2 (max. cruise)
Warp 6 (initial average cruise)

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 3:41pm

Kiith wrote: »

You know what i hate? Something bad is happening, and the Enterprise needs to get there quickly.

So Picard increases to Warp 8. Why not 9?

Maybe it's not life or death urgent, & Captains are mindful of the now harmful effect that high warp has on sub-space?

Maybe time is needed to plan/design a mission. Simply arriving at the door of a crisis without a solid plan can't be too helpful?

Maybe its very very fuel intensive traveling at warp 9 & above {something that Trek doesn't really explore}

Maybe, certainly I know in the later seasons anyway, certain speed limit restrictions exists only to be broken in an extreme emergency. I remember an admiral saying to Picard "Your authorised to exceed warp speed limitations for the duration of this mission" at some point

There's certainly a few possible canon explanations, though every situation will differ & every situation will usually have its own explanation for it.

What I wanna know it, why is the Enterprise always the nearest vessel

norrie rugger · 17-09-2012 3:49pm

EnterNow wrote: »

What I wanna know it, why is the Enterprise always the nearest vessel

They were not the nearest during First Contact and look what happened to the fleet then?
Also it would be kinda boring watching them say; "the "Hood" is closer, let them deal with it" followed by an hour of Data dreaming or something
(oh wait...)

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 3:51pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Also it would be kinda boring watching them say; "the "Hood" is closer, let them deal with it" followed by an hour of Data dreaming or something
(oh wait...)

No kidding. Maybe they should show an episode where the night watch crew are on, & its 45 mins or bridge beeps & conn updates

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 3:55pm

Great two parter here for you Norrie

norrie rugger · 17-09-2012 3:56pm

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

Only for 12 hours apparently ... http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class

Yeah 12 hours was the fastest that they could safely maintain for any length of time.
Given that they never really explained the relation between speed and warp factor, it will be hard to understand how much quicker than 9.2 that 9.6 actually is (or Voyager's 9.975 Max cruise)
Most people take it as a somewhat exponential scale, with there being huge differences, in velocity, between the higher factors decimal places

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 3:59pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Most people take it as a somewhat exponential scale, with there being huge differences, in velocity, between the higher factors decimal places

I always understood it as an exponential increase, certainly at high warp anyway. Warp 9.975 is HUGELY faster than Warp 9.5 for example

norrie rugger · 17-09-2012 3:59pm

Why do we know these things???
Imagine all of the real world knowledge that we have not learned or forgotten, to make room for all of this!!

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 4:00pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Why do we know these things???
Imagine all of the real world knowledge that we have not learned or forgotten, to make room for all of this!!

I suppose I've been watching Trek for the better part of 15 years, you tend to absorb knowledge about it over time. Frankly, it's vastly more interesting than reality

norrie rugger · 17-09-2012 4:01pm

EnterNow wrote: »

I always understood it as an exponential increase, certainly at high warp anyway. Warp 9.975 is HUGELY faster than Warp 9.5 for example

I take it as such too but people smarter than I ahve tried to plot the relative speeds quoted vs the time it takes to make a set distance and it never quite works out to what it should be.

Also some of the speed increases should have drastically cut arrival times (instead of the few hours quoted).

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 4:02pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

I take it as such too but people smarter than I ahve tried to plot the relative speeds quoted vs the time it takes to make a set distance and it never quite works out to what it should be.

Also some of the speed increases should have drastically cut arrival times (instead of the few hours quoted).

Yeah the same can be said of much of Trek's technology. It's based on real world physics, but isn't bound by them. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense because, well, it can't

norrie rugger · 17-09-2012 4:04pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Yeah the same can be said of much of Trek's technology. It's based on real world physics, but isn't bound by them. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense because, well, it can't

Now off to learn more Trek and the top speed of the Enterprise-E

Aparently 9.95

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 4:08pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Now off to learn more Trek and the top speed of the Enterprise-E

Aparently 9.95

Ah the elusive Sovereign Class...regularly seen posing around Nebulae, Borg Cubes, Spatial anomalies, & Romulan Dreadnoughts

norrie rugger · 17-09-2012 4:09pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Ah the elusive Sovereign Class...regularly seen posing around Nebulae, Borg Cubes, Spatial anomalies, & Romulan Dreadnoughts

My mind read that in David Attenborough's voice

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 8:56pm

Normally I wait until after an episode to comment on it, good bad or indifferent. In this case, I just can't. It's still playing here in the background yet I'm compelled to post up how seriously crap, recycled, rehashed, tripe it is.

Voyager, Season 1 - Ex Post Facto.

It's about three different TNG/DS9 eps in one, and it just does not work. Paris is accused of murdering the neglected wife of the usual brilliant scientist {Riker was the same in A Matter of Perspective}. His punishment is implanted in his brain {O'Brien in Hard Time}, & Tuvok melds with him to find the truth {god knows how many episodes feature this for this reason}.

Truly awful, awful stuff. Especially disappointing after the damn good Eye Of The Needle

helimachoptor · 17-09-2012 9:01pm

EnterNow wrote: »

I suppose I've been watching Trek for the better part of 15 years, you tend to absorb knowledge about it over time. Frankly, it's vastly more interesting than reality

Agreed! the useless treks facts i've learned watching numerous re-runs is just mind boggling tbh!

IvySlayer · 17-09-2012 9:20pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Normally I wait until after an episode to comment on it, good bad or indifferent. In this case, I just can't. It's still playing here in the background yet I'm compelled to post up how seriously crap, recycled, rehashed, tripe it is.

Voyager, Season 1 - Ex Post Facto.

It's about three different TNG/DS9 eps in one, and it just does not work. Paris is accused of murdering the neglected wife of the usual brilliant scientist {Riker was the same in A Matter of Perspective}. His punishment is implanted in his brain {O'Brien in Hard Time}, & Tuvok melds with him to find the truth {god knows how many episodes feature this for this reason}.

Truly awful, awful stuff. Especially disappointing after the damn good Eye Of The Needle

That's Voyager!! Wait until the reset button episodes :P

Eye Of The Needle was a good episode, but was the time difference thing necessary? Was it planned all along or was it lazy writing for a good amazeballs plot-twist.

DS9 had an similar episode with the plot twist.

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 9:21pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

DS9 had an similar episode with the plot twist.

The Sound Of Her Voice? I enjoyed that one

Beefy78 · 17-09-2012 9:21pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

That's Voyager!! Wait until the reset button episodes :P

Eye Of The Needle was a good episode, but was the time difference thing necessary? Was it planned all along or was it lazy writing for a good amazeballs plot-twist.

DS9 had an similar episode with the plot twist.

Yeah DS9 did, but that was towards the end of the sixth season so at least that time Voyager didn't just recycle another Trek plot.

IvySlayer · 17-09-2012 9:22pm

EnterNow wrote: »

The Sound Of Her Voice? I enjoyed that one

I did too, but the time difference thing bugged me. It wasn't necessary and lazy writing.

IvySlayer · 17-09-2012 9:30pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Normally I wait until after an episode to comment on it, good bad or indifferent. In this case, I just can't. It's still playing here in the background yet I'm compelled to post up how seriously crap, recycled, rehashed, tripe it is.

Voyager, Season 1 - Ex Post Facto.

It's about three different TNG/DS9 eps in one, and it just does not work. Paris is accused of murdering the neglected wife of the usual brilliant scientist {Riker was the same in A Matter of Perspective}. His punishment is implanted in his brain {O'Brien in Hard Time}, & Tuvok melds with him to find the truth {god knows how many episodes feature this for this reason}.

Truly awful, awful stuff. Especially disappointing after the damn good Eye Of The Needle

Oh I totally forgot Voyager does another episode exactly like this a few seasons later :P

I don't know if you've seen it or not!

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 9:32pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

I don't know if you've seen it or not!

Seen them all multiple, multiple times man

IvySlayer · 17-09-2012 9:36pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Seen them all multiple, multiple times man

Actually just thinking I might have not though about it too much, it's the one where Torres is arrested for having violent thoughts in a telepathic society.

Myrddin · 17-09-2012 9:50pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

Actually just thinking I might have not though about it too much, it's the one where Torres is arrested for having violent thoughts in a telepathic society.

Yep she bumps into someone & subconsciously has an aggressive though & is punished for it. I remember it well, like I do the rest of them

norrie rugger · 18-09-2012 10:42am

EnterNow wrote: »

Yep she bumps into someone & subconsciously has an aggressive though & is punished for it. I remember it well, like I do the rest of them

Or the one where Torres has telepathic thoughts of a lost forbidden love??
I may have said this once or twice but I hate Voyager. In fact I think that it killed the Trek franchise more than Enterprise, there was just no goodwill left for Enterprise to find its feet

Myrddin · 18-09-2012 10:45am

norrie rugger wrote: »

Or the one where Torres has telepathic thoughts of a lost forbidden love??

I actually don't recall that one, must be a repressed memory

I may have said this once or twice but I hate Voyager. In fact I think that it killed the Trek franchise more than Enterprise, there was just no goodwill left for Enterprise to find its feet

Could not agree more with this

norrie rugger · 18-09-2012 11:24am

EnterNow wrote: »

I actually don't recall that one, must be a repressed memory

Conveniently enough Remember

IvySlayer · 18-09-2012 1:12pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Or the one where Torres has telepathic thoughts of a lost forbidden love??
I may have said this once or twice but I hate Voyager. In fact I think that it killed the Trek franchise more than Enterprise, there was just no goodwill left for Enterprise to find its feet

What really pissed me off about Voyager is they went out of their way to mention how moral and brilliant they were, especially Captain Painway.

Imagine a battered ship with a Starfleet/Maquis crew who distrusted each other. Maybe 2 ships travelling along side each other, eventually learning to get along, Starfleet technology, values, and the Maquis with their experience of being underdogs and having limited resources.

We all love a good mystery, in Caretaker, Starfleet mention they have a spy on the Maquis ship, it would've have been so much cooler to have let that run over a few episodes, maybe half a season. The identity is kept secret from the viewer so we'd keep watching. Instead of Chakotay being a lapdog he should've done the things Painway wouldn't do. Almost like the relationship between Section 31 and Starfleet, they don't approve of them but they let them do their thing because it benefits them.

On Voyager a senior crew of Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, the Doctor, Kim, maybe Carey as Chief Engineer should've been enough since Voyager has a small crew anyway. Cut Neelix and Kes.

The Val Jean (make it bigger) with Chakotay, Seska, Torres, a couple of others. After a couple of episdoes, I see a storyline where Chakotay gives Voyager the 2 fingers, a disagreement about morals or something, Voyager tries to negotiate and gets ambushed. The Val Jean goes to their aid, despite the entire crew disagreeing, but Chakotay keeps them in check and sacrificies the ship.

Voyager did a slightly different version but lasted about half an episode where they could've based a season around it instead of focusing on the stupid Kazons.

Myrddin · 18-09-2012 1:17pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

What really pissed me off about Voyager is they went out of their way to mention how moral and brilliant they were, especially Captain Painway.

Imagine a battered ship with a Starfleet/Maquis crew who distrusted each other. Maybe 2 ships travelling along side each other, eventually learning to get along, Starfleet technology, values, and the Maquis with their experience of being underdogs and having limited resources.

We all love a good mystery, in Caretaker, Starfleet mention they have a spy on the Maquis ship, it would've have been so much cooler to have let that run over a few episodes, maybe half a season. The identity is kept secret from the viewer so we'd keep watching. Instead of Chakotay being a lapdog he should've done the things Painway wouldn't do. Almost like the relationship between Section 31 and Starfleet, they don't approve of them but they let them do their thing because it benefits them.

Thats what Norrie is basically saying, the writers ruined nearly every good plot/premise/idea consistently over seven seasons. Even the much applauded Year Of Hell two parter could have been much, much better & darker.

Voyager was so bad, so consistently poor & wasteful...that Enterprise never truly stood a chance.

IvySlayer · 18-09-2012 1:25pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Thats what Norrie is basically saying, the writers ruined nearly every good plot/premise/idea consistently over seven seasons. Even the much applauded Year Of Hell two parter could have been much, much better & darker.

Voyager was so bad, so consistently poor & wasteful...that Enterprise never truly stood a chance.

Enterprise and Voyager were almost opposites, Voyager started on their own, but struggled so they soon copied plots from TNG/DS9. Borg, Seven of Nine (which was a DS9 idea) etc.

Enterprise only got good in Season 4.

So much wasted potential

norrie rugger · 18-09-2012 1:28pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

What really pissed me off about Voyager is they went out of their way to mention how moral and brilliant they were, especially Captain Painway.

Imagine a battered ship with a Starfleet/Maquis crew who distrusted each other. Maybe 2 ships travelling along side each other, eventually learning to get along, Starfleet technology, values, and the Maquis with their experience of being underdogs and having limited resources.

We all love a good mystery, in Caretaker, Starfleet mention they have a spy on the Maquis ship, it would've have been so much cooler to have let that run over a few episodes, maybe half a season. The identity is kept secret from the viewer so we'd keep watching. Instead of Chakotay being a lapdog he should've done the things Painway wouldn't do. Almost like the relationship between Section 31 and Starfleet, they don't approve of them but they let them do their thing because it benefits them.

On Voyager a senior crew of Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, the Doctor, Kim, maybe Carey as Chief Engineer should've been enough since Voyager has a small crew anyway. Cut Neelix and Kes.

The Val Jean (make it bigger) with Chakotay, Seska, Torres, a couple of others. After a couple of episdoes, I see a storyline where Chakotay gives Voyager the 2 fingers, a disagreement about morals or something, Voyager tries to negotiate and gets ambushed. The Val Jean goes to their aid, despite the entire crew disagreeing, but Chakotay keeps them in check and sacrificies the ship.

Voyager did a slightly different version but lasted about half an episode where they could've based a season around it instead of focusing on the stupid Kazons.

I have said pretty much exactly this, earlier in this post (or in one of the others).
Voyager was the biggest waste of potential. It had the opportunity to show how people outside the Federation view its citizens and structures. It should have shown the starfleet people struggle to hold onto their morals and beliefs, in the face of overwhelming odds, while the Maquis crew just did what needed to be done.
TNG was a format that lived well within an "Reset button" format but Voyager having to travel home was never going to work like that

norrie rugger · 18-09-2012 1:31pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

Enterprise only got good in Season 4.

I would advise you to watch season 3 again, over the course of a weekend/week. When viewed back to back it is actually a very tense and fraught season. It maybe tried to force too much into the season, which is why it felt disjointed when viewed week by week but it really is much better than you would remember

Myrddin · 18-09-2012 1:33pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

Enterprise only got good in Season 4

I've watched Enterprise in its entirety maybe four or five times by now, only this year I finished my most recent run through. It gets better each time, & I firmly believe it walks all over Voyager. From season 2 onwards, it makes very good 'Trek' viewing

IvySlayer · 18-09-2012 1:37pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

I would advise you to watch season 3 again, over the course of a weekend/week. When viewed back to back it is actually a very tense and fraught season. It maybe tried to force too much into the season, which is why it felt disjointed when viewed week by week but it really is much better than you would remember

Was Season 3 the Xindi storyline, temporal cold war bollocks? I hated that.

But most of all, I hate Archer and Merriweather. T'Pol is annoying too, Spock was supposed to be the first Vulcan, end of. Having Tuvok too is overload. :P

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