US moves to make flag-burning illegal

ItalianStallion · 24-06-2005 4:05pm

People who burn our flag make me sick. they're either muslim terror sponsors, communists or some other fringe leftwing group. im growing a bit sick of them both. if they want to do that in this country, we have somthing to learn from how de gall delt with the coal mine strike (funny that we have somthing to learn from modern french history besides that the french are cowards). when they were on strike, he conscripted them to the army, to work in the coal mines. well done charlie!
on this note, i think a proper punishment for flag/draft card burners should be conscription to the army.

Calina · 24-06-2005 4:43pm

ItalianStallion wrote:

People who burn our flag make me sick. they're either muslim terror sponsors, communists or some other fringe leftwing group.

Met them all personally, have you?

Boggle · 24-06-2005 4:57pm

funny that we have somthing to learn from modern french history besides that the french are cowards

Links please...

Thats insulting to any French people that might post on boards.ie - how would you like it if I were to say that "Americans are ignorant, self-serving pricks??".
Not nice when someone digs at you over your nationality is it??

Mods: I'm just trying to make a point here - not trying to insult americans or any other posters on boards.

bonkey · 24-06-2005 5:37pm

ItalianStallion wrote:

im growing a bit sick of them both.

What has your approval got to do with whether or not it is a legitimate application of the principle of Freedom of Expression?

if they want to do that in this country,

Would that be Ireland, or America?

If the want to do it in America, then they can do so in accordance with the Supreme Court finding in 1989 that it was legal, and again in 1990 when they ruled that Bush Snrs act to protect the flag was unconstitutional.

we have somthing to learn from how de gall delt with the coal mine strike

Well, fair enough. Clearly your on the Bush's side, which says that it should be illegal. Care to explain why it should be illegal for an American to burn an American flag, in the Land of the Free and all of that?

jc

Meh · 24-06-2005 7:09pm

ItalianStallion wrote:

People who burn our flag make me sick. they're [...] muslim terror sponsors...
.....
on this note, i think a proper punishment for flag/draft card burners should be conscription to the army.

So you think that giving "muslim terror sponsors" access to and training with highly destructive military weapons is a good idea? I don't think you've thought that one through....

ItalianStallion · 24-06-2005 11:19pm

Boggle wrote:

Links please...

Thats insulting to any French people that might post on boards.ie - how would you like it if I were to say that "Americans are ignorant, self-serving pricks??".
Not nice when someone digs at you over your nationality is it??

Mods: I'm just trying to make a point here - not trying to insult americans or any other posters on boards.

google search "french military victories"

ItalianStallion · 24-06-2005 11:21pm

Meh wrote:

So you think that giving "muslim terror sponsors" access to and training with highly destructive military weapons is a good idea? I don't think you've thought that one through....

i would have fought side by side with obl against the communists. communism was the greatest threat of the last century. do you really think european nations selling weapons to the greatest human rights abuser on the planet (china) is a good idea?

sceptre · 25-06-2005 12:13am

ItalianStallion wrote:

google search "french military victories"

I found 15,200 pages. Funnily enough when I searched for "american military victories" it gave me a mere 182. So, apart from trying to use a parody page (which can be explained at least in part by this) in what purports to be a serious discussion from you, is there anything apart from some pseudo-nationalistic jingoism masquerading as racism masquerading as a serious point that you are actually willing to contribute to push the debate forward rather than into the special place I keep for "special" arguments proposed by people?

Memnoch · 25-06-2005 12:24am

ItalianStallion wrote:

i would have fought side by side with obl against the communists. communism was the greatest threat of the last century. do you really think european nations selling weapons to the greatest human rights abuser on the planet (china) is a good idea?

communism was an ideal, nothing more. It was a poorely executed and much exploited ideal just as religion is in today's time and has been throughout history.

More relevant is how the ideal of democracy is being manipulated and misused in a way as bad if not worse than that which communism was. At the end of the day though, these are just political systems, it's people's misuse that causes problems.

Also I fail to see what china has to do with burning of the US flag by americans?

Right now I find patriotism to be another big problem in our society as it's used as an excuse to stiffle important debate and to discriminate for some to gain unfair advantages over others. As such it's not something we seem to be able to deal with in a healthy way and this whole flag burning business takes this further in the wrong direction.

Lastly, I think the sooner people realise that these great enemies such as communism and now terrorism are more figments of the creation of the rich and powerful so that they may maintain their status quo rather than real threats is the day these enemies will truly be defeated.

Tolerance is the only way even if it does mean I have to listen to the insane ramblings of the current american administration. I suppose that's another topic for another thread though.

Victor · 25-06-2005 12:37am

sceptre wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:

google search "french military victories"

I found 15,200 pages. Funnily enough when I searched for "american military victories" it gave me a mere 182. So, apart from trying to use a parody page (which can be explained at least in part by this) in what purports to be a serious discussion from you, is there anything apart from some pseudo-nationalistic jingoism masquerading as racism masquerading as a serious point that you are actually willing to contribute to push the debate forward rather than into the special place I keep for "special" arguments proposed by people?

Hey, ItalianStallion, http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&biw=1259&q=%22Italian+military+victories%22&meta= :rolleyes:

And anyway http://tar.weatherson.net/archives/000259.html

No offence TC.

Nuttzz · 25-06-2005 8:51am

Memnoch wrote:

Lastly, I think the sooner people realise that these great enemies such as communism and now terrorism are more figments of the creation of the rich and powerful so that they may maintain their status quo rather than real threats is the day these enemies will truly be defeated.

how was the russian revolution a creation of the rich and powerful?

how was 9/11 a creation of the rich and powerful?

Selected french quotes...

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." --- General George S. Patton

As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure." --- Jacques Chirac, President of France.
"As far as France is concerned, you're right." --- Rush Limbaugh

BlitzKrieg · 25-06-2005 9:03am

lenin changed socialism...so instead of worker revolution we had one elitist replace another...

Hobbes · 25-06-2005 9:20am

Nuttzz wrote:

how was 9/11 a creation of the rich and powerful?

Allowed laws to be steamrolled in that keeps the rich and powerful in a position of power. Do you need examples?

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." --- General George S. Patton

Patton never actually said that.

As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure." --- Jacques Chirac, President of France.
"As far as France is concerned, you're right." --- Rush Limbaugh

Hmm quoting Chirac out of context is supposed to equate for something? Coming from the possibly one of the biggest hypocrites in the world (Rush).

Please try harder.

Nuttzz · 25-06-2005 10:10am

Hobbes wrote:

Allowed laws to be steamrolled in that keeps the rich and powerful in a position of power. Do you need examples?

how was 9/11 created by the rich and powerful is my question, not how they used it.

Patton never actually said that.

sadly we will never get to ask him what he thought....

Hmm quoting Chirac out of context is supposed to equate for something? Coming from the possibly one of the biggest hypocrites in the world (Rush).

not really, some times this forum needs a counter point. some people here could do with lightening up a bit

Please try harder.

a hypocrite? one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter et al.

Memnoch · 25-06-2005 11:11am

9/11 specifically? well if you want to go into the motivations behind it then it all stretches back to american foreign policy motivated by the greed of those in power backed by wealthy arms manufacturers, oil barons etc. Then off course the whole un-wavering support of the actions of the israeli government throughout it's numerous war crimes.

More recently you can see the whole "war on terror" tm. which IS a manufactured commodity, I mean they attacked iraq which they've admitted never had any links to terrorism, first talking about WMD's and then talking about terrorism and how it's part of the war on terror and all this nonsense.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the bush administration or at least a select few within it knew this would happen and allowed it to take place, because they are the ones who HAVE gained the most and have had the most to gain from 9/11. Allowing them to introduce ridiculous laws, boost their political standing and gain huge profits, declare obviously immoral and illegal wars. Allowing them to build a gas pipeline through Afghanasthan by replacing one fundamentalist muslim regime with another, and now the plundering of iraq.

So yes these things are figments created by the rich and powerful to maintain their rule through the use of fear and blind ignorance, and there is pleanty of gullable ignorance arround that buys into the nonsense they spew on a daily basis.

Also Rush limbaugh is nothing more than a hate inciting racist scumbag. Nothing he says is of any value whatsoever as far as i'm concerned. This isn't about perspective or opinion this is about the statements he has made and continues to make on his sorry excuse for a radio show. But yes I suppose to people in the KKK he is a freedom fighter.

http://www.rushlimbaughonline.com/ is a good starting point to learn about this great american hero.

Nuttzz · 25-06-2005 11:31am

Memnoch wrote:

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the bush administration or at least a select few within it knew this would happen and allowed it to take place, because they are the ones who HAVE gained the most and have had the most to gain from 9/11.

I find it hard to believe that the american administration would allow 3000 plus people to die for their own benefit.

9/11 was a slaughter and the laws passed were in reaction to it, so if there was no 9/11 these laws wouldnt come into place. the idea that they would allow a slaughter like this is laughable

Memnoch wrote:

Nothing he says is of any value whatsoever as far as i'm concerned

goes back to my statement "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter."

personally I have no time for racists bigots etc but at the same time I have no time for people who pi$$ and moan about how the world has kicked them in the arse. I was talking to a shop owner only yesterday who was complaining that the "darkies" were opening a shop beside his and they would "lower the tone of the place." Personally I welcome immigrants who come over here and open their own businesses, they arent sitting around waiting for handouts like some of the "locals."

Social justice is a noble cause but the only person who is going to improve your lot is yourself, if your waiting around for governments or charities to create equality you will be waiting a lifetime.

Memnoch · 25-06-2005 11:59am

Nuttzz wrote:

I find it hard to believe that the american administration would allow 3000 plus people to die for their own benefit.

9/11 was a slaughter and the laws passed were in reaction to it, so if there was no 9/11 these laws wouldnt come into place. the idea that they would allow a slaughter like this is laughable

nonsense. We are talking about an administration that has lied repeatedly and showed little or NO concern for the value of human life, american or otherwise.

People in THIS very administration supported Saddam for many years while he committed countless atrocities.

This administration lied about everything, from WMD to links of terrorism so they could conduct this obviously pre-meditated war of greed and profit. How many american soldiers lost their lives and how many thousand more were maimed for life? How many innocent iraqi's have died to american bombardment, have you forgotten about the flattening of entire iraqi cities such as fallujah? The average person's life means nothing to this administration, hell they didn't even bother to keep a count of how many civillians they slaughtered.

There are people like this everywhere and in all walks of society who will think nothing of the value of another person's life especially not when it come to their own greed. There have been dictators and corrupt governments throughout the world throghout history, there are criminals and drug lords today who would act thus.

So why is it that somehow the bush administration is an angel of purity that cannot possibly have such people within it? Where does this assumption come from?

It seems to me, that you are making the assumption that they are good and then seeing all their actions in that light and making excuses for their crimes.

Whereas if one were to objectively take the assumption that starting out they are neither good nor evil, and judge their actions past and present on the merit of the actions alone, it becomes blatently obvious just how corrupt, selfish and greedy they really are.

3,000 ordinary people mean nothing to them. These are the elite, they are better than everyone and if a few pawns must be sacrificed that they may mould the world more to their pleasure, then it's not even worth a 2nd thought to them.

perhaps you should read up a bit more about the neo-con political ideology and what it stems from.

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/49/articles/leo_strauss/noflash.html

Memnoch · 25-06-2005 12:00pm

personally I have no time for racists bigots etc but at the same time I have no time for people who pi$$ and moan about how the world has kicked them in the arse.

good then you should have no time for Rush limbaugh either since that's what he so obviously and unashamedly is.

Hobbes · 25-06-2005 12:54pm

Nuttzz wrote:

how was 9/11 created by the rich and powerful is my question, not how they used it.

You mean the rich and powerful dicking around in other countries political affairs which ultimately caused 9/11.

sadly we will never get to ask him what he thought....

No I am saying he never said that. It is a bogus quote. If you think otherwise please quote your source (I went through a load of pages to find the context to the quote and found out its not real).

a hypocrite? one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter et al.

I haven't a clue what you are on about but Rush is a hypocrite. Go read up on the drug addicts views before and after he got caught. Or prehaps getting a bill killed that would balance radio for the US troops citing "Censorship" when in fact that was what he was doing. Or if you just want to go with slime, him dumping his wife for his mistress while she was on her hospital bed being treated for cancer. Or prehaps his views on AIDS.

Lil bit off topic.

Hobbes · 25-06-2005 12:57pm

Nuttzz wrote:

I find it hard to believe that the american administration would allow 3000 plus people to die for their own benefit.

9/11 was a slaughter and the laws passed were in reaction to it, so if there was no 9/11 these laws wouldnt come into place. the idea that they would allow a slaughter like this is laughable

Would never happen in the US?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Btw CIA refer to these sort of things as "Fund raisers".

Nuttzz · 25-06-2005 1:30pm

its pie in the sky to say that this american administration was behind 9/11.

you are all so fond of your links, show me one credible link that proves that they were.

I'll be here waiting......

Hobbes · 25-06-2005 5:10pm

Nuttzz wrote:

its pie in the sky to say that this american administration was behind 9/11.

Depends on how you define behind it. Actually orcastrating it is certainly pie in the sky. Causing the factors that lead up to that point is another story as is knowing that something serious was going to happen.

Even so there are plently of unanswered questions like why were multiple warnings ignored by the administration yet the likes of Ashcroft were taken off public airplanes due to being warned of a credible threat.

Or prehaps the plans for the afganistan war being made up a year before it took place, likewise similar issue with Iraq.

Or how about the fact the US administration allowed known people who most likely had a finger in 9/11 allowed to avoid them being arrested (OBL being one of those people).

How about all the people who profitted from 9/11 selling stocks short.

Or how about the antrax attacks which were blamed on AQ, yet those mails were sent before 9/11 and were later tracked back to a US military program. Follow who profitted off that selling a drug that wasn't approved and more expensive then current drugs on the market. Not to mention the US adminsitration (toplevels) were given anti-anthrax drugs.

http://www.unansweredquestions.org/timeline/

Nice link to do researching.

25-06-2005 7:22pm

I often wonder in my day to day business what other people are up to.
I've met people in my time that I thought were crazy and people I thought were sound and still do.
I've had loads of plausible theories on everybody but usually I use my sense of realism to determine whats crazy and whats not.

As we move further down the road that this thread is going I'll let ye all hypothesise to yourselves various plausible or implausible theories as to why I'm closing this thread.

US moves to make flag-burning illegal

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