Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

the Poppy

Options
12357…16

Comments

  • Options
    #122
    THall04
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭THall04


    poppyvalley wrote: »
    I'll probably raise some tentacles..to put it mildly. I was listening to Dara O'Brian today and how he felt about wearing the poppy. It's coming up to poppy season soon. My grandfather fought in the somme for the freedom of all small nations. Some of you will say he was "misguided" but you cannot project yourselves back to the times that were in it. I live in the west of Ireland & intend to wear the poppy for november in due respects to my grandfather.

    One good point the original poster (I think thats what OP stands for) pointed out, is that nobody alive today really understands the reasons why and circumstances about those who fought in World War 1 .

    Too many people on this thread refer to their history school books or a search on Google....unless you are at least one hundred and twenty years old , you have little understanding about those who fought in the war.

    If your grandfather fought in World War One , and you want to remember him by wearing a poppy....then go ahead and do it.

    For anyone who wants a poppy.....but is unsure about where the profits made from buying one will go.......then go pick 'em for free on the Carlow Bypass , there's bloody millions of them there in the spring.


    One more point about the "OP"........if your grandfather really was old enough to have fought in the Somme then you must be at least 40 of 50 years or age......so it's about time you didn't give a damn about anyone worrying about what you want to wear


  • Options
    #123
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    We are just past Summer and this **** is already starting. May as well search for poppy and read the threads from 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002 etc. Most seem to be started by someone on a crusade to a) convince others to wear a poppy or b) justify to the board community that they are wearing a poppy as a mark of respect to their long lost grandad's brothers mate. It is a personal decision and please don't shove that decision down people throats (a la the poppy fascism).

    FWIW, I wear this one but not until at least Halloween has passed!

    http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3677/whitepoppy2.jpg


  • Options
    #124
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Dont worry your little head, the only people getting my cash will be publicans.

    Did you not post recently that you were only 17, too young to legally drink?.


  • Options
    #125
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    I don’t see anything unduly political about the poppy, at least no more so than anything that touches on nationalism / patriotism which the poppy of course does. That it commemorates all who have died fighting for Britain, and does not seek to exclude those who partook in unjust wars or atrocities, suggests to me that it is essentially about remembering whose life was cut short in the service of Britain. You could point at some less than noble actions where British combatants died, but so too could lay similar charges at lily-wearing republicans.

    I do see it as a uniquely British symbol but I have no objection to Irish people, whose relatives may have died serving in British forces, from wearing it, in that spirit of remembrance. And remembering is very much the impression I get when I see the reports on the commemorations each year.

    And it is disingenuous to compare it to the Easter lily. The lily has been favoured by different groups over the last century, but what they all have in common is a willingness to purport to speak for, and act on behalf of, all Irish people without their content, indeed frequently so when a denial of consent was clear. It carries far more political baggage than the poppy. At least the British combatants generally were backed by the authority of their state.


  • Options
    #126
    giles lynchwood
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭giles lynchwood


    fooled again i was expecting a informative discussion about a different poppy :confused::confused:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #127
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    I thought the poppy denoted that you were a Labour supporter.


  • Options
    #128
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    lugha wrote: »
    I don’t see anything unduly political about the poppy, at least no more so than anything that touches on nationalism / patriotism which the poppy of course does. That it commemorates all who have died fighting for Britain, and does not seek to exclude those who partook in unjust wars or atrocities, suggests to me that it is essentially about remembering whose life was cut short in the service of Britain. You could point at some less than noble actions where British combatants died, but so too could lay similar charges at lily-wearing republicans.

    I do see it as a uniquely British symbol but I have no objection to Irish people, whose relatives may have died serving in British forces, from wearing it, in that spirit of remembrance. And remembering is very much the impression I get when I see the reports on the commemorations each year.

    And it is disingenuous to compare it to the Easter lily. The lily has been favoured by different groups over the last century, but what they all have in common is a willingness to purport to speak for, and act on behalf of, all Irish people without their content, indeed frequently so when a denial of consent was clear. It carries far more political baggage than the poppy. At least the British combatants generally were backed by the authority of their state.


    When you consider the history and symbolism behind the the poppy and easter lily I'd say you were the one who was being disingenuous.


  • Options
    #129
    flanno_7hi
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭flanno_7hi


    gurramok wrote: »
    Jayzus the amount of muppets who don't understand that the contribution from buying a poppy goes to modern British Soldiers and not only those in the Somme.

    If it was only for those that died in WW1, fair enough, but you're bloody stretching it commemorating those who served in Northern Ireland like Bloody Sunday.

    And no, thats not begrudging. I speak as one who has relatives who had served in the British Army based in Leicester, England.
    Exactly the reasons i would never buy or wear one.


  • Options
    #130
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    The poppy is an insidious thing, propagated for the tired old notion of Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.


  • Options
    #131
    Mysterious Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Mysterious Man


    I pity the people that actually buy one and wear it.

    The sight of that blood stained poppy sends shivers down my back.

    I've no problems wearing a white poppy, promoting peace and the like, but one which condones violence is ridiculous.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #132
    dan719
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭dan719


    Dudess wrote: »

    Well wearing it as an "up yours" to republicans, even the dumb-ass ones, is pretty immature and petty, and only stooping to the dumb-ass ones' level...

    Sorry, you'll have to point out where I said I was wearing the poppy as an up yours to Republicans? My Great Grandfather and two of his brothers fought at the Somme in the BA. I also have no problem with monies going towards modern day British soldiers.


  • Options
    #133
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mysterious Man wrote: »
    I pity the people that actually buy one and wear it.

    The sight of that blood stained poppy sends shivers down my back.

    I've no problems wearing a white poppy, promoting peace and the like, but one which condones violence is ridiculous.
    *sigh*

    The red poppy comes from the red fields of Flanders where many lost their lives.
    While some might see it as you do, others see it for what it started out as (not twisted into partly something by those with an agenda), as a flower from where their family died.
    That and just that.


  • Options
    #134
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this as I haven't read the whole thread but maybe you could wear a white poppy. You'll still be showing support for people that fought in World War 1 but it won't look like you're supporting war, if that's what you're worried about.


  • Options
    #135
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    dan719 wrote: »
    Sorry, you'll have to point out where I said I was wearing the poppy as an up yours to Republicans? My Great Grandfather and two of his brothers fought at the Somme in the BA. I also have no problem with monies going towards modern day British soldiers.

    I had a Great Grandfather gassed in the trenches too but I know the best way to remember him is to embrace peace. Too many war-hypocrites in the world of which you are one.


  • Options
    #136
    dan719
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭dan719


    karma_ wrote: »
    I had a Great Grandfather gassed in the trenches too but I know the best way to remember him is to embrace peace. Too many war-hypocrites in the world of which you are one.

    War hypocrites? WTF is a War Hypocrite?


  • Options
    #137
    Mysterious Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Mysterious Man


    Biggins wrote: »
    *sigh*

    The red poppy comes from the red fields of Flanders where many lost their lives.
    While some might see it as you do, others see it for what it started out as (not twisted into partly something by those with an agenda), as a flower from where their family died.
    That and just that.

    Don't try school me on where the poppy comes from.

    I'm not wearing a red poppy and have no respect for those that do.

    The poppy used to be a mark of respect for the soldiers who died in the war, but now has become a symbol of imperialism.

    I'll wear a white poppy to remember the brave soldiers who died in the war.

    I'd rather wear something that signifies peace.

    Comprende?


  • Options
    #138
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mysterious Man wrote: »
    Don't try school me on where the poppy comes from.

    I'm not wearing a red poppy and have no respect for those that do.

    The poppy used to be a mark of respect for the soldiers who died in the war, but now has become a symbol of imperialism.

    I'll wear a white poppy to remember the brave soldiers who died in the war.

    I'd rather wear something that signifies peace.

    Comprende?
    I comprehend you have an attitude that is disingenuous to good manners.
    Reasoning with that form of mentality is a waste to time.

    Good day.


  • Options
    #139
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Maxton Gifted Codfish wrote: »
    Did you not post recently that you were only 17, too young to legally drink?.
    No, I'm older than 17. You must have me confused with someone else.


  • Options
    #140
    Mysterious Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Mysterious Man


    Biggins wrote: »
    I comprehend you have an attitude that is disingenuous to good manners.
    Reasoning with that form of mentality is a waste to time.

    Good day.

    The problem with you is that you haven't the ability to comprehend something that extends further than your field of view.

    Reasoning with a mentality that differs from yours is a waste of time? Says alot about the type of ''person'' you are.

    I'm finished with you now, enjoy your day. :D


  • Options
    #141
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mysterious Man wrote: »
    The problem with you is that you haven't the ability to comprehend something that extends further than your field of view.

    Reasoning with a mentality that differs from yours is a waste of time? Says a lot about the type of ''person'' you are.

    So lets get this straight - rather than see it for what it started out as - you have adopted the WRONG idea that is advocated by the hi-jackers, that the poppy is about imperialism.

    Well if you know of the true history of the poppy and its historical true significance, you should advocate that truth - rather than adopting and further helping to espouse the "imperialistic" notion.

    If you want to expose an imperialism symbol that is wrong, why not educate and share the truth about the origins of the red poppy - rather than just speaking of wanting peace but unwilling to respect even those that wear it due to and based on it original intent.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #142
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Bambi wrote: »
    When you consider the history and symbolism behind the the poppy and easter lily I'd say you were the one who was being disingenuous.
    Did the gremlins get the rest of your post? :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #143
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Biggins wrote: »
    So lets get this straight - rather than see it for what it started out as - you have adopted the WRONG idea that is advocated by the hi-jackers, that the poppy is about imperialism.

    Well if you know of the true history of the poppy and its historical true significance, you should advocate that truth - rather than adopting and further helping to espouse the "imperialistic" notion.

    If you want to expose an imperialism symbol that is wrong, why not educate and share the truth about the origins of the red poppy - rather than just speaking of wanting peace but unwilling to respect even those that wear it due to and based on it original intent.
    Biggins, that ship has sailed. Rather like the word "gay" the poppy has new meanings which it was not intended to have.


  • Options
    #144
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Biggins, that ship has sailed. Rather like the word "gay" the poppy has new meanings which it was not intended to have.
    Absolutely true.
    That however don't mean that those that have twisted the poppy into their own means should get away with it.

    Its only by speaking up and educating those coming after us, that history is not allowed to be re-written and twisted.

    Its the least we can do in honour for those that paid an ultimate sacrifice.


  • Options
    #145
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Biggins wrote: »
    Absolutely true.
    That however don't mean that those that have twisted the poppy into their own means should get away with it.

    Its only by speaking up and educating those coming after us, that history is not allowed to be re-written and twisted.

    Its the least we can do in honour for those that paid an ultimate sacrifice.
    And the only way you can do that is to buy and wear a poppy? If you only subscribe to one meaning of the poppy and do not want to be viewed as subscribed to the others you would be better off not wearing the poppy.


  • Options
    #146
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    And the only way you can do that is to buy and wear a poppy? If you only subscribe to one meaning of the poppy and do not want to be viewed as subscribed to the others you would be better off not wearing the poppy.
    Did I actually say the only way to do that was to wear a poppy?

    As for wearing one - if I did - I would upon being stopped to ask why I was wearing it, would inform the questioner as to the truth of the matter - and expose those those that have used and twisted the symbol to a means of their own disgusting ends.


  • Options
    #147
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭storm2811


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Wouldn't be too keen on giving them my cash.

    :confused:
    So the money IS going to British veterans/soldiers.
    War can have a major effect on people, many men who've served in a war have actually taken their lives due to post traumatic stress.

    If the money is going towards helping those men and women and their partners who may have to cope with their deaths then I have no problem with that.

    Now, of course I would give money to support Irish men who've been in wars also, if one man dies in a war, or comes back suffering severe injuries/post traumatic stress it affects far more people than just him.

    I'm not condoning war, I just believe that men and women who've experienced war need aftercare, it could save their lives.

    I don't see the poppy as a political symbol but just a small symbol of respect, it should remind people of what happened in WW1 and how many suffered.
    I have been to the graveyards of the soldiers in Ieper, I seen so many gravestones and the tower built by men from the north and south, built to remember what happened there and to show they fought together, as one.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Ireland_Peace_Park


  • Options
    #148
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Biggins wrote: »
    Did I actually say the only way to do that was to wear a poppy?

    As for wearing one - if I did - I would upon being stopped to ask why I was wearing it, would inform the questioner as to the truth of the matter - and expose those those that have used and twisted the symbol to a means of their own disgusting ends.
    TBH I doubt anyone would question you, people would just assume. Why not wear a different symbol? Then people will ask and you can tell them.


  • Options
    #149
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    storm2811 wrote: »
    :confused:
    So the money IS going to British veterans/soldiers.
    Yes.

    War can have a major effect on people, many men who've served in a war have actually taken their lives due to post traumatic stress.
    Wait, would this be Iraq and Afghanistan you are talking about here? They are the soldiers who the money is going toward.
    If the money is going towards helping those men and women and their partners who may have to cope with their deaths then I have no problem with that.
    So you wish to engage and be a part of a support system for said soldiers and their wars?



    I don't see the poppy as a political symbol but just a small symbol of respect,
    Well it is a political symbol, just look at how it is used in the north. How can it not be political? Does it remember all who have died in wars? No.
    it should remind people of what happened in WW1 and how many suffered.
    It is not just about WW1 though.
    I have been to the graveyards of the soldiers in Ieper, I seen so many gravestones and the tower built by men from the north and south, built to remember what happened there and to show they fought together, as one.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Ireland_Peace_Park
    Maybe you should also go to Afghanistan, Iraq, Derry or any of the other places British soldiers have fought and died together?


  • Options
    #150
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,997 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    How quickly people forget ... do we have to go through this again?

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #151
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    dan719 wrote: »
    Sorry, you'll have to point out where I said I was wearing the poppy as an up yours to Republicans?
    The naa-naa-na-naa-naa language you were using?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement