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Property Market 2018

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    #212
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Tyson Fury wrote: »
    Do you have to get declined from the banks to get that government scheme?
    http://rebuildingirelandhomeloan.ie/eligibility/

    "provide evidence of insufficient offers of finance from two banks or building societies"


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    #213
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    hmmm wrote: »
    "provide evidence of insufficient offers of finance from two banks or building societies"
    Probably a good idea to start gambling and buying rounds in Coppers to force the bank to decline you and get a better interest rate!!


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    #214
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    GingerLily wrote: »
    Probably a good idea to start gambling and buying rounds in Coppers to force the bank to decline you and get a better interest rate!!

    Not a decline, insufficient funding. A decline from a bank probably means a decline under this scheme. I also think if you can buy, even in a rougher area than you would like, you're probably going to be knocked back as well, but that's speculation.

    This is going to hit the bottom of the market more than the 350K market, but obviously everything has a knock on effect.


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    #215
    shivermetimber
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭shivermetimber


    How do they expect you to get refusal from a bank? Do you simply go into them asking for way more then you know you will actually get?


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    #216
    sjb25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭sjb25


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Usually I'd be dead set against this but it looks like it could suit me nicely. :pac:

    Me to :) I’m suddenly all for this :)


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    #217
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    shivermetimber wrote: »
    How do they expect you to get refusal from a bank? Do you simply go into them asking for way more then you know you will actually get?

    You either earn so little that no mortgage is big enough to buy a place full stop, or that the accommodation you can afford would be unsuitable.

    As an aside I wonder if they're look for bigger deposits on one beds. I'm guessing not.


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    #218
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    GingerLily wrote: »
    Probably a good idea to start gambling and buying rounds in Coppers to force the bank to decline you and get a better interest rate!!
    Heh

    Simple really.
    "Dear bank, I earn 50k a year and would like to borrow 280k"
    "Under Central Bank rules, no can do"
    "Dear bank 2....."
    "No"
    "Dear government..."
    "Have money! Money money money! Spend it on property!"


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    #219
    stryker mcqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭stryker mcqueen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Usually I'd be dead set against this but it looks like it could suit me nicely. :pac:

    Same here , wife is self employed since FEB 2015, business is good now but as with the majority of new ventures it took time, banks look for 2-3 years audited accounts, her average for the 3 years is peanuts , yet she is now better off than she has ever been. We have circa €30k saved (so far) for a deposit and have been paying rent for the last 5 years totaling around €60k yet told we cant afford a mortgage.

    So this scheme sounds like it could suit us, I can understand why it wont suit a lot of others but everyone's situation is different .


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    #220
    LookingFor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    You either earn so little that no mortgage is big enough to buy a place full stop, or that the accommodation you can afford would be unsuitable.

    As an aside I wonder if they're look for bigger deposits on one beds. I'm guessing not.

    Yeah, I wonder that too. Another perk - you need 20% deposits on the private market for one beds in Dublin.

    I'm basically ****ed from all angles on this. I'm targeting a one-bed in Dublin, I earn just a little past the point of eligibility for that scheme. I have to earn more, save more, and pay more euro-for-euro on my mortgage - and will be able to afford less in the end. And very possibly get pushed out by people on a scheme like this who've been able to borrow more.

    Moral hazard, how are ye.


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    #221
    Mickiemcfist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Mickiemcfist


    Does anyone know whats meant by "continuous employment" for the purposes of that mortgage? Is it same job or just employed for the last 2 years


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    #222
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


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    #223
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,994 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    stryker mcqueen wrote: »
    So this scheme sounds like it could suit us, I can understand why it wont suit a lot of others but everyone's situation is different .

    Get int here quick then, because sub 350k is going to start rising damm fast again.


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    #224
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Outkast_IRE wrote: »
    I see the first time buyers loan scheme is getting revamped.

    Sure some more Fuel on the Fire can only help things at this stage. The central bank werent playing ball with the government so the governemnt decided to circumvent the central bank rules altogether and offer interest rates massively lower than the private banks in the country ?

    I would love a 2% interest rate, unfortunately my partner and i are silly enough to work for a living. Maybe one of us should just give up altogether.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/enviroment/2018/0122/934974-murphy-housing-loan/

    I am sure everyone (at last the minister and the civil servants advising him) knows this is a receipt for huge trouble.

    But yet the governement pushes it through because they see it as good for politics.

    Truely disgusted by this. As another poster said we are running out of credible political parties.


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    #225
    LookingFor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    draiochtanois wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Given the market that would be targeted and the supply that's there at the moment, this actually seems like a fairly big number. There aren't a huge number of properties in Dublin in the 200-300K range. 550 extra people playing in that ballpark - and at the higher end of the scheme, able to pay substantially more than people on private mortgages earning up to €80K! - could have a non-negligible impact on the market.


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    #226
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Calm down its only for houses up to 320 ( in major urban areas ) its less outside of major areas, and those earning under 50k or two income 75k


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    #227
    hots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    draiochtanois wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    550 in Dublin would be substantial enough, property in those price ranges are already fairly condensed into specific areas too.


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    #228
    LookingFor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    hots wrote: »
    550 in Dublin would be substantial enough, property in those price ranges are already fairly condensed into specific areas too.

    Yep, if you've had a daft alert on that kind of price range in certain areas of Dublin over the last year, you'll know how small this pond can be. 550, or that kind of figure, would not be peanuts.

    I've gone from being hopeful of buying something in the range I've had an eye on later this year to be virtually completely demoralised over the course of this morning.


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    #229
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Shelga


    So someone on €49k can now borrow €242k under this scheme, yet someone earning €51k can only borrow €179k on the open market.

    The mind boggles. How ****ing stupid are our politicians. Would they stop interfering in the market with rubbish like this, and focus on ways to lower the cost of building new properties. That is the only thing that is going to stabilise the market.


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    #230
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    LookingFor wrote: »
    Yep, if you've had a daft alert on that kind of price range in certain areas of Dublin over the last year, you'll know how small this pond can be. 550, or that kind of figure, would not be peanuts.

    I've gone from being hopeful of buying something in the range I've had an eye later this year to be virtually completely demoralised over the course of this morning.

    But while it will bring some more in to the market its only up to 320 they cant go any further or they loose the the deal.

    Also

    Say a couple both earning circi 35k each they would get a mortgage of up 270/280 depending on circumstance, but someone on their own earning 35k does not have a lot of options in Dublin so it could affect the single buyer on a modest income.


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    #231
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,408 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Shelga wrote: »
    So someone on €49k can now borrow €242k under this scheme, yet someone earning €51k can only borrow €179k on the open market.

    The mind boggles. How ****ing stupid are our politicians. Would they stop interfering in the market with rubbish like this, and focus on ways to lower the cost of building new properties. That is the only thing that is going to stabilise the market.

    the 'mythical' market!;)


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    #232
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


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    #233
    LookingFor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    mariaalice wrote: »
    But while it will bring some more in to the market its only up to 320 they cant go any further or they loose the the deal.

    I earn more than this scheme's eligibility threshold and can't dream of being able to play with 320K. 320K is already way beyond that people in this bracket could previously have offered, and is beyond what people earning substantially more than them could offer without HUGE savings.

    Again, someone on - say - 60K can only borrow 210K on the open market.

    If they actually deliver on that full €200m of loans they say will be available, they will screw over a lot of people on 50-80K who are in that kind of market. Effectively those people will be placed behind those on 50K coming to the market via that scheme.


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    #234
    q85dw7osi4lebg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭q85dw7osi4lebg


    Can't see the central bank allowing this to work as is, without changes to their own regs on private loans.


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    #235
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    LookingFor wrote: »
    Again, someone on - say - 60K can only borrow 210K on the open market.

    If they actually deliver on that full 200m of loans they say will be available, they will screw over a lot of people on 50-80K who are in that kind of market.
    It's a completely perverse initiative.

    If you're someone hoping to buy a house in the future, and you or your partner is offered a raise at work, you may decide to not accept the raise or turn down the promotion.

    We always get stupidity like this when government tries to interfere. They've offering a big pot of gold to encourage people to stay in low paying jobs.


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    #236
    robcass78
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭robcass78


    House prices will continue to rise 8-10% as supply is still only less than 10,000 units nationally vs demand from population growth alone of about 50,000, which on 2.7 residents per home is 17,850. There's a cumulative undersupply of about 50,000 units from the past 5 years of undersupply. A housing wait list of 120,000 people vs a social home built rate of 800 a year. The pent-up demand of over 200,000 living at home is waiting to come to market, OR, they are starting to migrate, but still the net migration is inward, but dropping; used to be c35k Irish leaving a year, now down to 16k. At some point, if they decide to come back. The rise in interest rates next year and thereafter by 1-2% may put pressure, but if the rural banks proposal comes through Oireachtas, that sees home prices drop 20-30k on lower build interest costs, plus ongoing mortgage rates dropped from 3% to 1%, seeing mortgage costs drop for those who want a mortgage reduction. However, awareness of such a proposal amongst everyone is low right now, but starting to gain traction. http://www.thejournal.ie/public-banking-3807263-Jan2018/ I guess it requires people to say to TD's "I want 20k off my home price and 3-5k savings on mortgages a year" at which point, TD's may do something for their community? http://www.thejournal.ie/public-banking-3807263-Jan2018/ Obviously the banks will hate this, as will civil servants at Dept of finance, and try to kill it.


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    #237
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,994 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Eleanor Howling Anorexic wrote: »
    Can't see the central bank allowing this to work as is, without changes to their own regs on private loans.

    Central bank has a form of control over the private banks. Not over the government. As stupid as this is, I can't see them stopping it.


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    #238
    q85dw7osi4lebg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭q85dw7osi4lebg


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Central bank has a form of control over the private banks. Not over the government. As stupid as this is, I can't see them stopping it.

    Agree, but I mean that they may need to make changes to the regs surrounding private banks offerings, as suddenly a large % population would be mad to pursue a traditional mortgage.


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    #239
    mel123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭mel123


    Another incentive that doesnt help NON first time buyers at all, drives the prices up for everyone and decreases availability even more as more people try and jump on a ladder they cant afford anyway just because the scheme is there
    The government going against CB rules, like what a joke!!!!


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    #240
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Eleanor Howling Anorexic wrote: »
    Agree, but I mean that they may need to make changes to the regs surrounding private banks offerings, as suddenly a large % population would be mad to pursue a traditional mortgage.
    They still have to though.

    The application to the state mortgage company has to be accompanied by documents showing that the banks were offering insufficient finance.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being a complete farce, where someone puts in their application and gets approved 2 years after they've already bought with the bank's "insufficient" finance offer.

    The paperwork that the banks ask for is big and takes time to process. And they're relatively (!) efficient at is because this is their bread and butter. The state isn't going to throw money at people who can't repay it (one would hope), so they'll have to process paperwork too, and they're not going to be nearly as efficient.

    So there's every chance that this looks good for FTBs on paper, but in practice it ends being something that only a lucky few ever actually get through.


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    #241
    robcass78
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭robcass78


    Eleanor Howling Anorexic wrote: »
    Agree, but I mean that they may need to make changes to the regs surrounding private banks offerings, as suddenly a large % population would be mad to pursue a traditional mortgage.

    Central bank could have a) mandated banks to lend given they are only lending 20% of required new build lending loans vs 13 year rolling average, which results in the supply of homes being 4 times less than required (causing the 5 year price rises of 60%) b) they could also mandate lending at interest rates on par with EU average rather than 3 times EU average for home build construction loans, which adds 20-30k to home price and c) mandate banks that interest rates are in line with EU average, not 3 times the interest rate (3% vs 1%), which equates to 3-5k in overpayment of interest rates.

    Central bank is supposed to manage risk, but have seen price rises of 60% in 5 years, and allow the banks to overcharge, that's not risk, but now an issue (financially, economically in the overcharging aspect and socially in the 200,000 living at home and the 8.000 homeless). That's a bubble. We, taxpayers, own the banks, but Central bank is separate to government (who own the banks). It requires the Dept of finance to change the rules, but in 6 years, that's not happened, so you really think in the next 6 years they'll do anything?

    The only thing is asking Local TD's to support solutions: 1. Build more houses socially and privately (latter requires funding) and 2. increase competition so that financial system lends.

    3. regional community banks are one help http://www.thejournal.ie/public-banking-3807263-Jan2018/) and could be live within 6-12 months, but it suits that the banks overcharge by 6bn a year and homes not built, as it supports payments to landlords by taxpayers (1.8bn; up 47% a year. Well in advance of inflation and pay rises.)


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