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Irish Army DPM

  • 04-02-2008 12:15pm
    #1
    ambro25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭


    This thread further to the Irish Shooter Digest article thread, and 'the issue'.

    We the IAA thank the Irish Shooter Digest for a fabulous coverage of the sport, one of the best pieces of reporting yet in this country.

    One issue was accidentally raised by the article, however, which is recurring and is that of Irish DPM, seen in use at airsoft venues.

    Statutory provisions about the wearing of, and dealing in, Irish DPM are clear and unequivocal. They are to be found in the Defence Act 1954, sections 260/264/265 and quite simply forbid expressly:

    * wearing Irish DPM outside of Irish Army context or matters
    * dealing in Irish DPM ("dealing in" = selling/buying; not the least because Irish DPM is never the seller's to sell in the first place, whereby both a seller and a buyer could realistically be prosecuted for dealing in stolen goods, as in 'stolen from the State')

    The IAA position has been clear on this issue from the onset: do not wear Irish DPM, do not buy or sell Irish DPM, report any incidence of anyone doing any of these activities to the authorities at once.

    Any such "internal" issue, with the potential to impact the sport negatively, be it with authorities or the press, is of course to be avoided at all costs, and the IAA expects its Members to regularly exercise common sense and good judgement for the mutual benefit of all.

    A venue operator has been approached by relevant State bodies about the issue, which simply must not arise anymore, for the sake of the sport, the venues, and the persons concerned (that's the bit where, for relevant individuals, I'd take a BIG hint).

    Should an IAA member unfortunately be found to be in contravention of the above Statutes, therefore in contravention of the Constitution and Players' Guidelines, then as and when facts are established:

    * he or she will be issued a written warning for a first offense, and
    * a summary dismissal from the IAA will follow a second offense.

    This is applicable to any class of membership, that goes without saying.

    Venue operators, which run private commercial ventures irrespective of IAA affiliation status, may deal with the matter as they see fit and, we expect, by summary dismissal of any relevant individual from the venue on sight.

    Make no mistake, this is A Big Deal™


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Puding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭Puding


    Great post, a lot of this has been brought up in another thread in the last few days ( http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055229441 ) but to have it all in one place clear is nice, may i dare say a sticky is in order?


  • #3
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    thank you ambro ,i seen the article in question on saturday 2 photos attached featured the camo in question,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #4
    Blazher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Blazher


    Great thread mate,

    I strongly agree with this for a few reason, Witch i wont go in to,


    PS:: lets not turn this in to a bar fight like the other threads about Irish DPM!


  • #5
    Vegeta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    While I have nothing to do with airsoft (maybe that will change soon as myself and bullets could be on a road trip) maybe some pictures of Irish DPM here would be handy as not everyone knows what it looks like (myself included)

    So a person could quite innocently walk into a store buy and wear Irish DPM without even knowing.


  • #6
    Puding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭Puding


    http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/en_00156.php

    irishdmpya7.jpg


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  • #7
    moggins7
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭moggins7


    irish_army_current_issue.jpg
    and it feels like kite material.. little squares...
    i.e. its not heavy cotton like the old issue


  • #8
    cherubaul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭cherubaul


    I do have a couple of queries of the above IAA statement.

    Firstly previous to this the wearing of Irish DPM was a crime commited by a person on a skirmish site now effectively broadcast to the world.

    You say that you are protecting the sport but yet are you are holding site owners above your own directives?

    Surely if the IAA are truly thinking of the best interests of the sport any affiliated site owners should be answerable to them or at the very least if they are seen to be non-chalant in upholding the law are they not willingly allowing the commiting of a crime which would cast a shadow over the site?

    I mean if you are going to punish your members and make the authorities aware of other players surely then it must follow that site indifference to "the issue" would result in a written request for the cessation of such activities by the site owner followed by a boycott. If not do you not run the risk of the UKARA farce in the UK where an elite few have a strangle hold on the majority.
    If a site is not answerable on this then how can they be answerable on FPS levels or any other issue.

    I am not a member of the IAA nor am I a detractor. I'm a skirmisher and thats it and i have to say that i think it is pretty poor form that you feel that you have the right to protect your own members while employing a directive whereby you feel the need to police non members. in fairness one law for all.


  • #9
    bullets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭bullets


    Vegeta wrote: »
    myself and bullets could be on a road trip)

    Speaking of which, I ordered two masks the other day.
    You have yer own camo so if you
    Let me know what style AEG/Gun you want to use on a Skirmish
    I can buy Magazines and batteries.

    So far I reckon G36/M4/AUG/SA80 will be easiest to Field as I have
    some mags for them.

    I already ordered 8 midcap M4 magazines on the way from China
    so as soon as they arrive we could be in a position to Skirmish.
    (Once I get a 1-2 spare batteries and some BB's)

    ~B


  • #10
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    Slate me if im wrong but doesnt a uniform constitute rank and insignia ?
    what I mean is if it was just a cammo top that would harldy be called a uniform.
    and can you trademark a cammo design?


  • #11
    bullets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭bullets


    IRISH RAIL wrote: »
    Slate me if im wrong but doesnt a uniform constitute rank and insignia ?
    what I mean is if it was just a cammo top that would harldy be called a uniform.
    and can you trademark a cammo design?

    I think it covers any distinctive part of a uniform meaning ya could be done
    for even wearing part of a uniform like the Pants or Shirt

    The Americans trademarked their camo design I think??. I thought the copies
    of the Digital stuff we buy I think may be missing a colour
    or have a different colour to make it legal to purchase.

    ~B


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  • #12
    ambro25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭ambro25


    cherubaul wrote: »
    I do have a couple of queries of the above IAA statement. (etc.)

    I'm not seeing much of two queries in that post, in fact not even one to be honest.

    With reference to making the world and it's neighbour aware that some airsofters go about in Irish DPM illegally, I'm afraid that jack's been out of the box for months and a quick search of Boards will suffice to put your mind at rest. The same search will also satisfy you that I'm retreading on old grounds, insofar as the IAA position is concerned.

    Relevant authorities are already aware, and were so well before this announcement or the issue surfaced again accidentally in the Irish Shooter Digest article. The fact that they have now decided to "let us know that they know" - by approaching a site owner about the issue very recently - motivated this thread/annoucement in part and, in a larger part, to simply reiterate the position of the IAA, which is unchanged.

    I would love for you to explain how am I "holding site owners above our own directives". May I refer to the 'this applies to all classes of membership' portion. That includes affiliates, e.g. retailers and site operators. We cannot force the manner in which people run businesses, only provide a set of guidelines by which we would like them to do so. As for non-IAA members, of course we cannot 'police' them, nor have any pretentions to do so.

    Unlike lasers and other similar 'gray' legal areas open to interpretation where airsoft is concerned, the "Irish DPM issue" suffers no grayness whatsoever: the law is crystal clear on all issues. Now, explain to me, since you're neither an IAA member nor an IAA detractor, why your "two queries" in fact constitute nothing more than criticism about the publication of the IAA's position about the Irish DPM issue, in respect of which (in all fairness) no debate should arise, irrespective of whether you're interested in the IAA or not?

    Thx for your interest all the same.


  • #13
    NakedDex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭NakedDex


    A uniform doesn't necessarily have to have rank or insignia. The Irish uniform for a G1 recruit has neither and the standard bdu's have no insignia beyond the Irish flag on the left shoulder.

    The pattern itself is trademarked as Irish DPM and is copyrighted to boot. There is no surplus of these items unlike other armies so anyone holding a uniform is either a present or past serving member, or has gotten it by illegal means.


  • #14
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    /\ /\
    Thats cleared my ignorance up. thanks


  • #15
    Shiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Shiva


    IRISH RAIL wrote: »
    and can you trademark a cammo design?

    You can even trademark a colour.
    Cadbury have successfully registered "their" shade of purple as a trademark.


  • #16
    Hivemind187
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭Hivemind187


    Shiva wrote: »
    You can even trademark a colour.
    Cadbury have successfully registered "their" shade of purple as a trademark.

    You think thats something?

    Did you know that companies actively copyright human gene's? Basically, so long as they have done the work to decipher it they are entitled to patent it as if it were their creation or intellectual property.

    Pfizer owns your nipples!!!!!:eek:


  • #17
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    I think its a mistake to be sending letters to people.

    1) Its not your role to enforce Irish law. By all means report an instance to the gardi and let them deal with it, but you just arn't judges in this instance. This isn't a case of someone signing up to a code of practice.

    2) It strikes me that a letter of that nature could and would be seen as an accusation of criminal activity, pretty risky to be first accusing someone and then additionally punishing them.


  • #18
    Shiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭Shiva


    Hivemind187 wrote: »
    You think thats something?

    Pfizer owns your nipples!!!!!:eek:

    All three of them ??!!


  • #19
    Hivemind187
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭Hivemind187


    Boston wrote: »
    I think its a mistake to be sending letters to people.

    1) Its not your role to enforce Irish law. By all means report an instance to the gardi and let them deal with it, but you just arn't judges in this instance. This isn't a case of someone signing up to a code of practice.

    2) It strikes me that a letter of that nature could and would be seen as an accusation of criminal activity, pretty risky to be first accusing someone and then additionally punishing them.

    1) You do sign up to a code of practice - The Code of Conduct. As it stands, we have said in the constitution and made it public repeatedly that should someone be found to be bringing airsoft into disrepute they will be subject to disciplinary measures. The same as if you were in a football club and got caught with hookers and coke.

    2) Accusation isn't a crime, moreover, a person who is to receive a warning needs to receive it in a written and official way. A letter is far less public (which is the element I think you are concerned about) than publicly blasting them (which, if we were wrong, would constitute libel).

    I'm no big fan of rules myself Boston but if we dont have any, then whats the point in being organised? How can we claim to be self policing if we let people away with breaches of criminal law while actively engaging in Airsoft?


  • #20
    Hivemind187
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭Hivemind187


    Shiva wrote: »
    All three of them ??!!

    You'd have been burned at the stake for that a fortnight ago ... what enlightened times we live in.


  • #21
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Hivemind187 wrote: »
    1) You do sign up to a code of practice - The Code of Conduct. As it stands, we have said in the constitution and made it public repeatedly that should someone be found to be bringing airsoft into disrepute they will be subject to disciplinary measures. The same as if you were in a football club and got caught with hookers and coke.

    2) Accusation isn't a crime, moreover, a person who is to receive a warning needs to receive it in a written and official way. A letter is far less public (which is the element I think you are concerned about) than publicly blasting them (which, if we were wrong, would constitute libel).

    I'm no big fan of rules myself Boston but if we dont have any, then whats the point in being organised? How can we claim to be self policing if we let people away with breaches of criminal law while actively engaging in Airsoft?

    Its not so much rules as I feel theres a line you cross when you start enforcing the law, which is what this is. Its one thing enforcing rules about age limit and standard of insurance on sites or sportsmanship, but I just feel that when it comes to law and order it belongs in the hands of the state and when theres over lap between our rules and state law, then the latter should take precedence.


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  • #22
    Alvin T. Grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Alvin T. Grey


    Hivemind187 wrote: »
    You'd have been burned at the stake for that a fortnight ago ... what enlightened times we live in.
    Oh, I don't know. I'm sure I can get a mob together if you want........


  • #23
    Alvin T. Grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Alvin T. Grey


    Boston wrote: »
    Its not so much rules as I feel theres a line you cross when you start enforcing the law, which is what this is. Its one thing enforcing rules about age limit and standard of insurance on sites or sportsmanship, but I just feel that when it comes to law and order it belongs in the hands of the state and when theres over lap between our rules and state law, then the latter should take precedence.
    It's not enforcing the law. It's reporting a crime. Funnily enough, by happy coincidence that's your duty as a citizen anyway.


  • #24
    iceage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,533 ✭✭✭iceage


    Hey,hey guys..relax..its simple, its just not the done thing. For all the right reasons,its against the law. End of...I prefer british DPM anyway!!!;)


  • #25
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    "The same as if you were in a football club and got caught with hookers and coke."

    Rugby players and fizzy drinks are not allowed in football clubs, GAA are getting worse :p


  • #26
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    Boston wrote: »
    I think its a mistake to be sending letters to people.

    DoD sent the letter by the sounds of it not the IAA.


  • #27
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    Was the letter sent to a site or a person if it went to a site about people who were on it personally id throw it in the bin its not thier problem
    its down to individuals, sites cant be responsible for what people wear.
    a visit fom an official and a talking to anyone wearing it should be enough to stop it.
    will they be sending out letters saying someone in airsoft was a joyrider ?
    dont think so. let the cops enforce the law dont put it into the hands of the sites owners because that will only make bad feelings between players and the owners imagine it sorry lads i cant let you in because the minister for defence wrote me a letter telling me so! sounds ludicris


  • #28
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    IRISH RAIL wrote: »
    Was the letter sent to a site or a person if it went to a site about people who were on it personally id throw it in the bin its not thier problem
    its down to individuals, sites cant be responsible for what people wear.
    a visit fom an official and a talking to anyone wearing it should be enough to stop it.
    will they be sending out letters saying someone in airsoft was a joyrider ?
    dont think so. let the cops enforce the law dont put it into the hands of the sites owners because that will only make bad feelings between players and the owners imagine it sorry lads i cant let you in because the minister for defence wrote me a letter telling me so! sounds ludicris

    you should end your speech from the dock with "your honour"


  • #29
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,265 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Site owners should be aware of what's happening on their site. If laws are being broken they shouldn't turn a blind eye to it just to 'get along' with the players. THAT sounds ludacris.

    Irish DPM should = no game. Simple as.


  • #30
    Dr_Pepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Dr_Pepper


    Boston wrote: »
    Its not so much rules as I feel theres a line you cross when you start enforcing the law,which is what it is

    The IAA cannot and will not enforce the law.
    However its members must adhere to to the law and as Hivemind pointed out, if found in breach of a law bringing airsoft into disrespute (i.e. Photographed in Irish DPM at a site/venue) then they will be warned and if need be expelled.
    Boston wrote:
    but I just feel that when it comes to law and order it belongs in the hands of the state and when theres over lap between our rules and state law, then the latter should take precedence.
    It is not listed in our rules that one cannot wear Irish DPM.
    Its simply illegal.

    As with any sporting association if we find anyone breaking the law it is our duty to report it.
    This is a personal responsability on every citizen regardless of the offense.


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  • #31
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Alvin T. Grey wrote: »
    It's not enforcing the law. It's reporting a crime. Funnily enough, by happy coincidence that's your duty as a citizen anyway.

    I'm grand with it being reported to the gardi. I didn't get the impression that IAA would be both sending a letter and reporting it. If thats the case then I've no issue. I'd have an issue with sending a letter but not reporting it as thats overstepping the role of the gardi.
    iceage wrote: »
    Hey,hey guys..relax..its simple, its just not the done thing. For all the right reasons,its against the law. End of...I prefer british DPM anyway!!!;)

    I think everyone is relaxed.
    Rew wrote: »
    DoD sent the letter by the sounds of it not the IAA.

    It seems to me that the IAA is suggesting sending out letters, maybe I've got that wrong
    IRISH RAIL wrote: »
    Was the letter sent to a site or a person if it went to a site about people who were on it personally id throw it in the bin its not thier problem
    its down to individuals, sites cant be responsible for what people wear.
    a visit fom an official and a talking to anyone wearing it should be enough to stop it.
    will they be sending out letters saying someone in airsoft was a joyrider ?
    dont think so. let the cops enforce the law dont put it into the hands of the sites owners because that will only make bad feelings between players and the owners imagine it sorry lads i cant let you in because the minister for defence wrote me a letter telling me so! sounds ludicris

    see, I feel that when it comes to site owners thats exactly where the IAA should be involved. Nothing illegal about a site owner allowing people to play in camo, but it does bring the game into disrepute and is exactly the type of thing a code of conduit is there to prevent.
    Dr_Pepper wrote: »
    The IAA cannot and will not enforce the law.
    However its members must adhere to to the law and as Hivemind pointed out, if found in breach of a law bringing airsoft into disrespute (i.e. Photographed in Irish DPM at a site/venue) then they will be warned and if need be expelled.

    I've highlighted the key phrase in your post, its up to the courts to judge if someone is in breach of the law. If you have a photo of someone wearing Irish camo on site, report it to the gardi, if they warn them and/or fine them, then you have your justification for saying someone is in breach of a law and expelling them from the IAA.


  • #32
    Dr_Pepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Dr_Pepper


    hey Boston just to clear up a few things.
    1. the letters referred to are one to be sent to the member by the IAA.

    2. although as you have correctly pointed out it is up to the courts to decide if someone is guity of committing a crime, try to look at it this way.

    Think of the following issue:
    If a member was caught injecting heroin or some other illegal substance, should the IAA wait for the courts to do something after reporting it to the garda? Or is it reasonable that the IAA make a decision and take action within their power in accordance with the Code of Conduct, much live a football club would.


  • #33
    Dar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Dar


    IAA Constitution Article 17 Paragraph 2 wrote:
    2. Airsoft equipment of any IAA Member must not contravene applicable Statutes, including but not limited to, the muzzle energy of that Member’s airsoft device(s), the camouflage pattern of that Member’s clothing, the frequency range(s) of that Member’s radio equipment, under duress of disciplinary action.

    This is a not a case of the IAA trying to enforce the law of the land. It is the IAA enforcing its constitution as ratified by its members. Every member also signed a code of conduct.

    There seems to be some confusion as who sent what letters. To clarify:
    • An irish airsoft venue received a letter from the DoD stating their intention to begin prosecuting individuals who persist in flouting the law regarding the wearing of Irish DPM.
    • In response, the IAA has begun investigating whether this incident involved IAA members. If so, said members will receive a formal warning in writing from the IAA committee.


  • #34
    Site-Ops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Site-Ops


    OK Guys just a few things.....

    1. I was guilty of wearing the said DPM last Saturday night.
    2. I was not aware it was illegal to wear it, I just thought it was frowned upon.
    3. I will not turn up again at the HRTA until I can afford new DPM as I dont want to get anyone in trouble especially the owner.
    4. I claimed the DPM was French out of embarassment on my own behalf because of the remarks thrown my way. It wasnt until after the tournament that one of the guys explainded to me the situation.
    5. All that aside I really enjoyed the tournament and the team I was with inc. the Recon guys THANKS.
    6. Wel done to Dave and co. for organising the tournament its was excellently co-ordinated.
    7. See you all again when I can afford to buy some new DPM.... The kids get preference my DPM will have to wait a little longer.... :o


  • #35
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    You can get knock off multicam online and many others for less then €50, you can get combats in pennys for less then €10 and ultimately you dont need DPM/BDU's to play Airsoft!!

    There is an obsession in the Airsoft community (world wide with) uniforms. All you need is your self, a mask, BB's and an AEG. I've been to HRTA a number of times. Every time in jeans and various tops. I've never felt at any disadvnathage to anyone there dressed in full cammo.

    I see this obsession perpeutated on to newbies all the time by people here. The first words out of somones mouth to me on my first visit to HRTA was in referance to my lack of cammo and that "I was going to get shot to bits" which was not the case.

    It does make sense to have clothes that you don't mind getting muddy or wrecked or will keep you warm on a cold saturday night.


  • #36
    Site-Ops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Site-Ops


    Rew wrote: »
    You can get knock off multicam online and many others for less then €50, you can get combats in pennys for less then €10 and ultimately you dont need DPM/BDU's to play Airsoft!!

    There is an obsession in the Airsoft community (world wide with) uniforms. All you need is your self, a mask, BB's and an AEG. I've been to HRTA a number of times. Every time in jeans and various tops. I've never felt at any disadvnathage to anyone there dressed in full cammo.

    I see this obsession perpeutated on to newbies all the time by people here. The first words out of somones mouth to me on my first visit to HRTA was in referance to my lack of cammo and that "I was going to get shot to bits" which was not the case.

    It does make sense to have clothes that you don't mind getting muddy or wrecked or will keep you warm on a cold saturday night.

    This is true..... But like I said the €50 camo will have to wait Kids get preference.... But I could throw on anything until then I suppose. I have a leopard skin thong at home, would you pick me if I was to wear that obviously I would have a shell suit top to cover my diddies and sliippers for my feet? :)


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  • #37
    sci-ops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭sci-ops


    regardless of the fact that I happen to work with you....if you wear that I will be the first to pepper you with as many bb's as I can lay my hands on.......:D


  • #38
    kdouglas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kdouglas


    Rew wrote: »
    You can get knock off multicam online and many others for less then €50, you can get combats in pennys for less then €10 and ultimately you dont need DPM/BDU's to play Airsoft!!

    There is an obsession in the Airsoft community (world wide with) uniforms. All you need is your self, a mask, BB's and an AEG. I've been to HRTA a number of times. Every time in jeans and various tops. I've never felt at any disadvnathage to anyone there dressed in full cammo.

    I see this obsession perpeutated on to newbies all the time by people here. The first words out of somones mouth to me on my first visit to HRTA was in referance to my lack of cammo and that "I was going to get shot to bits" which was not the case.

    It does make sense to have clothes that you don't mind getting muddy or wrecked or will keep you warm on a cold saturday night.

    Absolutely and definitely agree with you, in terrain like hrta, no camo really makes much of a difference (unless your liamo and wearing a gillie). The main reason I own camo gear is because it's something I can wear to hrta on a saturday and bring it home and not give a crap about the mud on it, so if you have an old pair of jeans that you dont care about, these will do just as well


  • #39
    Alvin T. Grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Alvin T. Grey


    I think of mine as 'Airsoft Overalls'.
    i.e I don't give a toss about their condition as I don't wear them normally. The fact that they are cammo is as much to get into the mood as to conceal.


  • #40
    ambro25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭ambro25


    Thanks Dar, for putting it in plain English.

    (I mistakenly assumed the OP/every reader would already be clear enough as to the normal 'divide' between what the IAA and its Members get up to under self-organisation, and actual Law enforcement/prosecution - which is not the IAA's remit. As we all know, assumption is the mother of all f*ck-ups, how could I forget :rolleyes:)
    Site-Ops wrote: »
    I have a leopard skin thong at home, would you pick me if I was to wear that

    I'd pick you right away for our team - you can be our secret, instant-incapacitation WML (Weapon of Mass Laughter) :D


  • #41
    Site-Ops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Site-Ops


    sci-ops wrote: »
    regardless of the fact that I happen to work with you....if you wear that I will be the first to pepper you with as many bb's as I can lay my hands on.......:D

    You failed to do that last Saturday night..... In fact when your team came running at us (redstar) from the bus I do believe we cleared you all out without one single BB reaching our team.... You were all afraid to get down on your knees and snipe us in case you dirtied your brand new Camo.... I think you should wear jeans to the HRTA and your camo to work ;)


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  • #42
    sci-ops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭sci-ops


    Site-Ops wrote: »
    You failed to do that last Saturday night..... In fact when your team came running at us (redstar) from the bus I do believe we cleared you all out without one single BB reaching our team.... You were all afraid to get down on your knees and snipe us in case you dirtied your brand new Camo....

    That's because we didn't need to. Your own lads were shooting in the arse as it was:p Besides....my camo was all clean and stuff


  • #43
    Site-Ops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Site-Ops


    sci-ops wrote: »
    That's because we didn't need to. Your own lads were shooting in the arse as it was:p Besides....my camo was all clean and stuff

    Yes and may I say how fetching you looked in your smashing illuminated camo.....


  • #44
    Spetzcong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 797 ✭✭✭Spetzcong


    Hivemind187 wrote: »
    The same as if you were in a football club and got caught with hookers and coke.

    So just to clarify, the coke and hookers are still ok so long as I'm not wearing Irish DPM at the time right?

    Regarding the Irish DPM, it's illegal, it's foolish, and it could ruin things for the rest of us if the DoJ decide to make a big deal out of it. As has been said, you don't need camo to skirmish. It's worn more for looks than anything else, so I think we as a playerbase should follow the IAA's lead on this and adopt an attitude that Irish DPM isn't acceptible on the skirmish field.


  • #45
    Dar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Dar


    Spetzcong wrote: »
    So just to clarify, the coke and hookers are still ok so long as I'm not wearing Irish DPM at the time right?

    Of course. Just make sure you bring enough for everyone :).


  • #46
    Jay TLR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭Jay TLR


    Spetzcong wrote: »
    As has been said, you don't need camo to skirmish. It's worn more for looks than anything else,

    In HRTA maybe, due to it just being a field. In most other sites camo is a distinct advantage.


  • #47
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    Jay TLR wrote: »
    In HRTA maybe, due to it just being a field. In most other sites camo is a distinct advantage.

    But you don't need it. Its just a nice to have besides, the amount of people in cammo with no gloves, faces uncovered etc. Tactical movment and just staying still will achive alot.


  • #48
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Dr_Pepper wrote: »

    Think of the following issue:
    If a member was caught injecting heroin or some other illegal substance, should the IAA wait for the courts to do something after reporting it to the garda? Or is it reasonable that the IAA make a decision and take action within their power in accordance with the Code of Conduct, much live a football club would.

    As a private organisation you can refuse member ship or revoke it for pretty much any reason you guys like. The point I'm making is that you can accuse someone of breaking the law without the ability to back it up.
    Dar wrote: »
    This is a not a case of the IAA trying to enforce the law of the land. It is the IAA enforcing its constitution as ratified by its members. Every member also signed a code of conduct.

    There seems to be some confusion as who sent what letters. To clarify:
    • An irish airsoft venue received a letter from the DoD stating their intention to begin prosecuting individuals who persist in flouting the law regarding the wearing of Irish DPM.
    • In response, the IAA has begun investigating whether this incident involved IAA members. If so, said members will receive a formal warning in writing from the IAA committee.

    In a situation where someone is under investigation by the DoD then by all means that would constitute bringing the game into disrepute. I think you just have to be careful in how you phrase any warning letter.


  • #49
    Dar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Dar


    Boston wrote: »
    As a private organisation you can refuse member ship or revoke it for pretty much any reason you guys like. The point I'm making is that you can accuse someone of breaking the law without the ability to back it up.

    Not so. We are bound by the IAA Constitution which clearly states:
    IAA Constitution Article 15 Paragraphs 2-5 wrote:
    2. No Member shall be deprived of Membership, either temporarily or permanently, without the opportunity to plead their case to the Executive Committee.

    3. No Member will be subject to any penalty for alleged infractions against the terms of the IAA without due process.

    4. Any Member subject to disciplinary action by the Executive Committee is entitled to a fair hearing and all matters applicable and reasonable will be taken into account at said hearing before a decision is taken.

    5. Any Member subject to disciplinary action by the Executive Committee is entitled to assistance by and/or joint representation with another Member at a hearing.
    Boston wrote: »
    In a situation where someone is under investigation by the DoD then by all means that would constitute bringing the game into disrepute. I think you just have to be careful in how you phrase any warning letter.

    Unless I'm very much mistaken, any such communication would be private and strictly confidential, and as such could not be considered libelous.

    Edit: I'd just like to point out at that not a witch-hunt or a mudslinging competition. There will no be accusations against individual members on a public forum. This issue arose because a lot of us didn't thing that wearing Irish DPM while playing airsoft was a Big Deal(TM). It turns out it is a Big Deal(TM). I doubt the DoD wants to be forced to take action on this issue. I know the IAA Committee doesn't want to be forced to pursue disciplinary action. However, unless we as a community wise up and start taking this issue seriously, this is exactly where it will lead.


  • #50
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    everybody knows the score ,when it comes to the dpm ,ive seen pepole approached and told its illegal to wear ,to which the reply of i dont give a toss i can do and wear what ever i like,

    as men in thongs site-op i now have a new respect for ya ,

    so how do you deal with some one who isnt a member of the IAA wearing the dpm ,and dosent care for the reputation of airsoft as a sport
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #51
    Blazher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Blazher


    Dar wrote: »
    Not so. We are bound by the IAA Constitution which clearly states:





    Unless I'm very much mistaken, any such communication would be private and strictly confidential, and as such could not be considered libelous.

    Edit: I'd just like to point out at that not a witch-hunt or a mudslinging competition. There will no be accusations against individual members on a public forum. This issue arose because a lot of us didn't thing that wearing Irish DPM while playing airsoft was a Big Deal(TM). It turns out it is a Big Deal(TM). I doubt the DoD wants to be forced to take action on this issue. I know the IAA Committee doesn't want to be forced to pursue disciplinary action. However, unless we as a community wise up and start taking this issue seriously, this is exactly where it will lead.


    The way i see it, If someone turns up to any site with IRISH DPM on turn them away, Explain why and say go home and get changed and come back NO IRISH DPM here Thank you,


    Just ban people from playing if they were IRISH DPM!


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