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'Black hole' machine could destroy planet: lawsuit

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  • 04-09-2008 10:17pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭


    Indeed.
    'Black hole' machine could destroy planet: lawsuit

    Updated Sat. Apr. 5 2008 7:04 AM ET

    Parminder Parmar, CTV.ca News

    An American and a Spaniard have launched a lawsuit to stop scientists from firing up a machine they fear could destroy not just life on Earth but the planet itself.

    International scientists, including dozens from Canada, are about to launch the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), a 27-kilometre long particle accelerator built near Geneva, Switzerland. It will shoot beams of protons at each other in an effort to recreate conditions that resemble what the universe might have been like in the milliseconds after the Big Bang.

    "We want to probe the most basic particles and constituents (and we're) trying to understand how matter was made," Robert McPherson, a University of Victoria physics professor who is working on the project, told CTV.ca in a phone interview from Vancouver.

    In the process, scientists may end up creating miniature black holes -- areas of space that have gravitational pulls so strong that not even light can escape.

    The more matter a black hole pulls in, the stronger it becomes. And that's what worries Walter Wagner, the American who is suing to temporarily stop the project. He says the creation of these black holes here on Earth, no matter how small, may unleash a chain reaction that could destroy the planet.

    Wagner says there's a possibility that black holes could just get bigger and bigger as they pull more and more matter into themselves.

    "Eventually, all of Earth would fall into such growing micro-black-holes, converting Earth into a medium-sized black hole, around which would continue to orbit the moon, satellites, and the (International Space Station)," according to court papers Wagner, along with a citizen of Spain, filed in Honolulu.

    In other words, Wagner asserts the LHC is a machine that will end up causing the Earth to eat itself -- perhaps in less than a century. It may sound fantastic, like a plotline out of a James Bond movie where an evil scientist holds the earth for ransom with a deadly weapon, but Wagner says the possibility isn't science fiction.

    "Science fiction can be very strange and sometimes it can come very true. This is in the realm of possibilities where fiction can become fact," Wagner told CTV.ca in a telephone interview from his home in Honolulu.

    Wagner, an education consultant who studied physics at Berkeley, says scientists working on the project haven't done enough studies to make sure the scenario he envisions won't actually occur. The suit -- which is filed against various U.S. agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency -- aims to get a restraining order to stop work on the project until more safety studies are completed.

    McPherson admits small black holes may be created, but he says the concerns are overblown. He says there is virtually no possibility that any black hole that scientists may create at the Large Hadron Collider will end up absorbing the Earth.

    "Assuming our wildest fantasies, how much matter can one of these black holes consume in a second, in a year, or even in several billion years?" asks McPherson.

    "A black hole we could make at the LHC would only consume a tiny fraction of a gram of matter from Earth. There's no possibility of causing any damage to the Earth," he said.

    McPherson says the black holes will decay and disappear quickly. He adds that what scientists are trying to do in a laboratory setting at the LHC happens in nature daily.

    "The Earth is constantly being bombarded by cosmic rays. Many of them have much higher energies than what we can create with the LHC. If something dangerous was being made in these interactions it would already have happened in cosmic ray interactions," he said.

    But that's no comfort to Wagner. He says the LHC is like a factory that creates a waste product without any way to dispose of it. If he's correct, the factory won't get rid of the byproduct. Instead, the byproduct will dispose of the factory -- and everything else.

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080405/black_hole_080405/20080405?hub=TopStories


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Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Ah, not more of this LHC shíte. Can't wait until they start the thing and destroy the earth so I don't have to read any more stories about it.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭jayteecork


    Top Scientists thought that detonating a nuclear bomb could ignite the atmosphere and completely destory the planet.

    They did it anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭shenanigans1982


    Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.
    If we did this for every scientific experiment we'd never have progressed to the stage we are at today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭shenanigans1982


    If we did this for every scientific experiment we'd never have progressed to the stage we are at today.

    Better to be living in caves than dragged into a black hole in the middle of Switzerland. ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    I have never heard of this before!


    :(

    If we keep on talking about the lhc we'll create a blackhole in cyberspace. Then the man ain't gonna be happy.

    Personally, I wish it was under canada, it would do away with Celion Dion and the like and we'll know how the universe was made as a perk!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    iv a feeling its gonna be a repeat of the Y2K thing again. all the apocalyptic predictions only to be nothing in the end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    I have never heard of this before!


    :(

    If we keep on talking about the lhc we'll create a blackhole in cyberspace. Then the man ain't gonna be happy.

    Personally, I wish it was under canada, it would do away with Celion Dion and the like and we'll know how the universe was made as a perk!

    But canadians are involved?! ****, this time we won't even get a chance to blame them!


  • Posts: 16,720 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

    Riiiight.

    I'd be more concerned at what you don't know about, OP.




    Wait, that sounded more cryptic in my head.


  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭RuailleBuaille


    I have never heard of this before!


    :(

    If we keep on talking about the lhc we'll create a blackhole in cyberspace. Then the man ain't gonna be happy.

    Personally, I wish it was under canada, it would do away with Celion Dion and the like and we'll know how the universe was made as a perk!

    But canadians are involved?! ****, this time we won't even get a chance to blame them!

    I like Canada.
    :(


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    In other words, Wagner asserts the LHC is a machine that will end up causing the Earth to eat itself -- perhaps in less than a century

    Won't like, someone turn it off before then?

    Mike.


  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭ZygOte


    Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

    Troll much? :pac:


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I love the bit in the second paragraph - including dozens from Canada :D
    Obviously it's from a Canuck website, but it sounds so ominous.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Better to be living in caves than dragged into a black hole in the middle of Switzerland. ;)

    Has Jo Fritzl got a cousin in Zurich?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FruitLover


    Say what you want, I'm glad the world has Americans. They're a constant source of entertainment.
    Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

    Here's a slightly better idea: something like this should have been put to a vote, and if even one person who holds a doctorate in theoretical physics had a problem with it, the whole project should have been scrapped.
    If we did this for every scientific experiment we'd never have progressed to the stage we are at today.

    Haha

    What my parents' generation probably would have thought had they seen the likes of the Wii console in action:
    Originally Might Have Been Posted by Old Cnuts
    :eek: 'Tis the devil's work!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭Carsinian Thau


    In other words, Wagner asserts the LHC is a machine that will end up causing the Earth to eat itself -- perhaps in less than a century

    Hardly any of us will be alive in 100 years.

    Let the kids handle it.


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mike65 wrote: »
    Won't like, someone turn it off before then?

    Mike.

    You can turn the machine off, but you can't turn a black hole off.



    Jeez man, have you never watched Futurama?!



    If it does create a black hole.. won't the first thing it sucks up, be the actual LHC?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Thats like typing google into google

    Mike


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,384 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    The Hardon Collinder has already destroyed Earth. What you are experienceing now is the matrix.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 iTroll


    mike65 wrote: »
    Thats like typing google into google

    Mike
    I for one, tried that :/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭smallBiscuit



    If it does create a black hole.. won't the first thing it sucks up, be the actual LHC?

    Well then that'll solve the problem, the black hole will swallow the black hole!
    no worries then ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

    Thats ridiculous.

    If scientists annouced a pill that would cure cancer, aids and lodge €1,000,000 in your bank account some tool would object just to annoy people/rock the vote/generally because they are a tool. Nothing would ever get done on that principal.



    "including dozens from Canada" I sense a major build up to "it was the bloody Canadians" in case it all goes to ****.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    Ah who the fcuk cares if the Earth gets sucked up in a black hole? It's not like it's a great planet anyway.

    I say we should have MORE of these machines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭egan007


    Er...these machines have been around for decades

    Sure this is the biggest one but lets just remember that it's not new.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    Mmmmmmm, black hole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    jayteecork wrote: »
    Top Scientists thought that detonating a nuclear bomb could ignite the atmosphere and completely destory the planet.

    They did it anyway.

    And aren't we so lucky they did?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,944 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.
    Are you talking about the scientific project of this thread? I for one vote against this thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Victor McDade


    I like Canada.
    :(

    so you're the one....


  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Victor McDade


    i got sucked into a black hole once. in my defense, i was drunk. it smelt like fish....


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Look, if you domanage to corner a Physicist inperson and ask them about this ( I did a few days ago with one of my Customers who is a lecturer at QUT) they will admit that they havent really gota clue what this thing will do, they have made best guesses as to what it will do and most of them think that the probability of it destroyin the planet are minimal, however most of them also think that whenit fires up we will learn some mind blowin things about the nature of the Universe, maybe they have a vested interest in it, but at the same time dont we all.

    I cant wait to find out what it does, and anyway if it does make a sustainable blackhole we can use it as the worlds largest garbage disposal system, Environmental WIN


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