Criminal Record?

Lucas Maximus · 16-09-2009 12:51am #1

Hi, I would really appreciate any thought on this. The other week a Garda pulled me over, opened the passenger door and opened a dvd box and there was empty cigarettes and bits of tobacco in it. I let my friends roll joints in the car but I had no idea that mess was in the dvd box. So the garda got me out of the car and searched it and me, took my name, address and phone number and asked me to find out where my friends were getting it from. He also said I would have to appear in court. I am very worried now because I have wanted to visit the states and australia for so long and I dont know if this appearance in court will stop me from ever going. Can anyone hopefully put my mind at ease?

Thanks,
Luke

pirelli · 16-09-2009 2:37am

Lucas Maximus wrote: »

Hi, I would really appreciate any thought on this. The other week a Garda pulled me over, opened the passenger door and opened a dvd box and there was empty cigarettes and bits of tobacco in it. I let my friends roll joints in the car but I had no idea that mess was in the dvd box. So the garda got me out of the car and searched it and me, took my name, address and phone number and asked me to find out where my friends were getting it from. He also said I would have to appear in court. I am very worried now because I have wanted to visit the states and australia for so long and I dont know if this appearance in court will stop me from ever going. Can anyone hopefully put my mind at ease?

Thanks,
Luke

Your friends will abandon you if you get convicted. Think about it.

Sounds like he didn't find any cannabis did he. ??

Derek5 · 16-09-2009 11:32am

Lucas Maximus wrote: »

Hi, I would really appreciate any thought on this. The other week a Garda pulled me over, opened the passenger door and opened a dvd box and there was empty cigarettes and bits of tobacco in it. I let my friends roll joints in the car but I had no idea that mess was in the dvd box. So the garda got me out of the car and searched it and me, took my name, address and phone number and asked me to find out where my friends were getting it from. He also said I would have to appear in court. I am very worried now because I have wanted to visit the states and australia for so long and I dont know if this appearance in court will stop me from ever going. Can anyone hopefully put my mind at ease?

Thanks,
Luke

Luke, this all depends..

If this is genuinely your first offence, i'd let some legal advice from a solicitor..he may be able to help get the Probation Act for you, or also you may get fined..or possibly community service depending on your circumstances.

As for appearing in court, you'll be waiting a year or so for a summons.

If it's a first offence, they won't be jailing you for it. If you get the Probation Act, you'll be okay to travel as it's effectively a warning...a slap on the wrist.

Trojan911 · 16-09-2009 12:06pm

Lucas Maximus wrote: »

Hi, I would really appreciate any thought on this. The other week a Garda pulled me over, opened the passenger door and opened a dvd box and there was empty cigarettes and bits of tobacco in it. I let my friends roll joints in the car but I had no idea that mess was in the dvd box. So the garda got me out of the car and searched it and me,

Speak to a solicitor, was this search lawful is a question I would be asking.

axer · 16-09-2009 12:08pm

Did he actually find any cannabis or hash? Just because he says you will have to appear in court does not mean you will at all. I would agree with seeing a solicitor but I'd say nothing will come of this.

Lucas Maximus wrote: »

Hi, I would really appreciate any thought on this. The other week a Garda pulled me over, opened the passenger door and opened a dvd box and there was empty cigarettes and bits of tobacco in it. I let my friends roll joints in the car but I had no idea that mess was in the dvd box. So the garda got me out of the car and searched it and me, took my name, address and phone number and asked me to find out where my friends were getting it from. He also said I would have to appear in court. I am very worried now because I have wanted to visit the states and australia for so long and I dont know if this appearance in court will stop me from ever going. Can anyone hopefully put my mind at ease?

Thanks,
Luke

me_right_one · 16-09-2009 12:11pm

Let me get this straight. A guard found a few cigarette butts and loose tobacco in your car? And he wants to bring you to court? Despite the legalities (or lack of) of the search, he didnt find anything illegal, is that right? So he's just going to bring you to court and tell the judge he found Shergar in the boot, but let him go by accident, and you should be punished for some reason? WTF?

Derek5 · 16-09-2009 12:19pm

me_right_one wrote: »

Let me get this straight. A guard found a few cigarette butts and loose tobacco in your car? And he wants to bring you to court? Despite the legalities (or lack of) of the search, he didnt find anything illegal, is that right? So he's just going to bring you to court and tell the judge he found Shergar in the boot, but let him go by accident, and you should be punished for some reason? WTF?

Did you read the guys original post? He let his friends roll joints in his car and the mess as in the dvd box...

...the Gardai wouldn't be summoning him to court for no reason!

me_right_one · 16-09-2009 12:34pm

Derek5 wrote: »

Did you read the guys original post? He let his friends roll joints in his car and the mess as in the dvd box...

...the Gardai wouldn't be summoning him to court for no reason!

I read it alright, but I must have missed something which your eagle eyes spotted. Where did he say that the guard found a joint, or hash, or sent the dvd box off to be analysed for narcotic forensics? All I read was that the guard found a few bits of loose tobacco in a dvd box. The lad wasnt even littering - which is precisely why I posted that piece of sarcasm asking what exactly the guard was summoning him to court for, which obviously went over your head like the international space station!

OP, I wouldnt worry. Dont waste your time or money on a liar lawyer unless you get a summons

Shinners23 · 16-09-2009 12:55pm

Ok, my take on this would be

1) What gave the Garda reason to look in your glove box..... did he have reason to believe that you were carrying anything illegal?

2) Secondly, he found nothing illegal.. he may have found cigarette butts, that would allow him to infer that you rolled something illegal but it would take way more than that...

He was scare mungering... wouldn't worry bout it in the slightest.. he was hoping you were scared and would dish the dirt on the guy your friends bought it from...

Nothing to worry bout.

Derek5 · 16-09-2009 12:57pm

me_right_one wrote: »

I read it alright, but I must have missed something which your eagle eyes spotted. Where did he say that the guard found a joint, or hash, or sent the dvd box off to be analysed for narcotic forensics? All I read was that the guard found a few bits of loose tobacco in a dvd box. The lad wasnt even littering - which is precisely why I posted that piece of sarcasm asking what exactly the guard was summoning him to court for, which obviously went over your head like the international space station!

OP, I wouldnt worry. Dont waste your time or money on a liar lawyer unless you get a summons

The Gardai took the lads details and told him he'd be appearing in court. He let his friends roll joints...which were found in the dvd box. The Gardai wouldn't have said this to the guy otherwise!

If i was this guy i'd be getting legal advice pretty sharpish.

axer · 16-09-2009 12:59pm

Derek5 wrote: »

The Gardai took the lads details and told him he'd be appearing in court. He let his friends roll joints...which were found in the dvd box. The Gardai wouldn't have said this to the guy otherwise!

A garda pulled me over once for cycling on a footpath and was adament I would be appearing in court over it. 5 years later and still no summons. He was scaremongering and I'm sure he would have made it quite clear to the OP if he had actually found something.

Shinners23 · 16-09-2009 1:10pm

Well look I was in a similar position.... I was in possession of stolen tickets... I didn't know they were stolen... The gardas asked me where I got them... Took my name and address and told me it was a very serious offence and that they would be in touch the next day................ guess what..... never heard from them again..... they have no evidence... end of

me_right_one · 16-09-2009 1:22pm

Derek5 wrote: »

The Gardai took the lads details and told him he'd be appearing in court. He let his friends roll joints...which were found in the dvd box. The Gardai wouldn't have said this to the guy otherwise!

If i was this guy i'd be getting legal advice pretty sharpish.

WRONG. The Guard didnt find joints in the dvd box. He found NOTHING only pieces of tobacco.

He then threatened the led that this would all end in a court summons. Then, unbelieveably, he asked the lad to find out where his friends get their hash, blatently guessing that they smoke it, and relying on the lads fear of court to make him snitch. He probably thought the lad would spill his guts about everything he knew, but our OP clearly didnt know anything or I'd bet my life savings he would have talked!

Jaysus its like a bad 70's detective show

Shinners23 · 16-09-2009 1:31pm

me_right_one wrote: »

WRONG. The Guard didnt find joints in the dvd box. He found NOTHING only pieces of tobacco.

He then threatened the led that this would all end in a court summons. Then, unbelieveably, he asked the lad to find out where his friends get their hash, blatently guessing that they smoke it, and relying on the lads fear of court to make him snitch. He probably thought the lad would spill his guts about everything he knew, but our OP clearly didnt know anything or I'd bet my life savings he would have talked!

Jaysus its like a bad 70's detective show

you_right_one - hehe Spot On....

Stainless_Steel · 16-09-2009 3:00pm

What a waste of a garda resource :rolleyes:

I'd say the search was lawful allright, as the garda probably bullied the OP into giving away consent.

They should just keep the peace and help people that are being vicitmised.

OP, if there was no illegal substance found then you can't be prosecuted for such. Don't be fooled by a bully into ratting out your mates.

Lucas Maximus · 16-09-2009 4:35pm

Thanks for all your thoughts on this. The Garda pulled me over for absolutely no reason, I had done nothing wrong. He pulled open the passenger door first, I have no glove box and went straight to the dvd box which was in like a shelf. Most of my friends have told me nothing will come of it, but I will seek legal advice if many of you think it merits it, there is not a chance I would want to put my opportunitys for international travel at risk. Also the Garda took the dvd box, he said he did find something and also said not to be stupid enough to be carrying this stuff around. Ha ha, I wouldn't of if I had of known.

Thanks again,
Luke

cushtac · 16-09-2009 4:42pm

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

I'd say the search was lawful allright, as the garda probably bullied the OP into giving away consent.

He does not have to give his consent to the search, Gardaí have the right to stop & search vehicles for drugs.

jhegarty · 16-09-2009 5:26pm

Op, you said it was tobacco , do you mean tobacco or something else ?

I am pretty sure it would have been on the news if tobacco was made illegal.

Cróga · 16-09-2009 5:33pm

cushtac wrote: »

He does not have to give his consent to the search, Gardaí have the right to stop & search vehicles for drugs.

Who gives them this right?

Cróga · 16-09-2009 5:39pm

Lucas Maximus wrote: »

Thanks for all your thoughts on this. The Garda pulled me over for absolutely no reason, I had done nothing wrong. He pulled open the passenger door first, I have no glove box and went straight to the dvd box which was in like a shelf. Most of my friends have told me nothing will come of it, but I will seek legal advice if many of you think it merits it, there is not a chance I would want to put my opportunitys for international travel at risk. Also the Garda took the dvd box, he said he did find something and also said not to be stupid enough to be carrying this stuff around. Ha ha, I wouldn't of if I had of known.

Thanks again,
Luke

This may come in handy for the next time... (note it has an american slant but it still has great tips)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

hullaballoo · 16-09-2009 5:41pm

Croga wrote: »

Who gives them this right?

What, not who. It's part of the Misuse of Drugs Acts that allows a member of AGS to search a car etc. without a warrant. See here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1977/en/act/pub/0012/sec0023.html.

Trojan911 · 16-09-2009 5:46pm

cushtac wrote: »

He does not have to give his consent to the search, Gardaí have the right to stop & search vehicles for drugs.

Only with reasonable grounds, otherwise it is known as a fishing trip i.e. unlawful. OP, were you driving a modified car by any chance? As before, speak to a solicitor as to the legality of the search and note the Q's & A's that were asked and answered at the time.

wrote:

23.—(1) A member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that a person is in possession in contravention of this Act of a controlled drug, may without warrant—

[GA] ( a ) search the person and, if he considers it necessary for that purpose, detain the person for such time as is reasonably necessary for making the search,

[GA] ( b ) search any vehicle, vessel or aircraft in which he suspects that such drug may be found and for the purpose of carrying out the search may, if he thinks fit, require the person who for the time being is in control of such vehicle, vessel or aircraft to bring it to a stop and when stopped to refrain from moving it, or in case such vehicle, vessel or aircraft is already stationary, to refrain from moving it, or

[GA] ( c ) seize and detain anything found in the course of a search under this section which with such cause appears to him to be something which might be required as evidence in proceedings for an offence under this Act.

[GA] (2) Nothing in this section shall operate to prejudice any power to search, or to seize or detain property which may be exercised by a member of the Garda Síochána apart from this section.

hullaballoo · 16-09-2009 5:57pm

Trojan911 wrote: »

Only with reasonable grounds, otherwise it is known as a fishing trip i.e. unlawful. OP, were you driving a modified car by any chance?

Surely that point is purely academic.

Trojan911 · 16-09-2009 6:01pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

Surely that point is purely academic.

Which one? The reasonable grounds or what car the OP was driving?

hullaballoo · 16-09-2009 6:16pm

Trojan911 wrote: »

Which one? The reasonable grounds or what car the OP was driving?

Sorry, I didn't see your edit. The reasonable grounds.

McCrack · 16-09-2009 8:29pm

cushtac statement that Gardaí have the right to stop & search vehicles for drugs at will is not correct.

Trojan911 is correct.

gardai must have reasonable cause to conduct a search under the Misuse of Drugs Act.

Gardai cannot conduct random searches on people and their cars.

If this reasonable cause requirement is not present then the person searched was searched illegally.

If a person is searched illegally they have a right to sue the gardai and claim money. A trip to a solicitor to start proceedings is the first step.

Hooch · 16-09-2009 8:51pm

McCrack wrote: »

cushtac statement that Gardaí have the right to stop & search vehicles for drugs at will is not correct.

Trojan911 is correct.

gardai must have reasonable cause to conduct a search under the Misuse of Drugs Act.

Gardai cannot conduct random searches on people and their cars.

If this reasonable cause requirement is not present then the person searched was searched illegally.

If a person is searched illegally they have a right to sue the gardai and claim money. A trip to a solicitor to start proceedings is the first step.

But if the O/P is hanging around with know drug users it should be noted that this is sufficent grounds for a search under the MDA. I think this was what custac was getting at. No Garda should would just search willy nilly, I know i certainly wouldnt and cant say I know too many that would. Some grounds must be there.. A check on the car and the people who have been frequenting it may have tipped the member in question off. On this the member might have smelt it. Its a smell that a member can get a mile away. if it was smoked in the car within lets say 24 hours the smell would linger.

Also on this O/P you should be aware that all that is needed for simple possession under Section 3 MDA 1977/84 is a very very minor trace amount of a substance. If what you say is true there is a good certainty that there was trace amounts of herb in that dvd box.

Edit: O and by the way I agree fully with what mccrack said, reasonable suspision is needed to lawfully inact the search. Just trying to probe:)

McCrack · 16-09-2009 10:48pm

NGA what you say would be an objective basis for a member to search under the Misuse of Drugs Act, things like previous, known associates, pupils dilated, smells etc. and you can add to these from your own practical experience, all are valid grounds to search.

I don't agree that no Garda will stop and search people for no objective reason. It does happen I'm afraid.

Usually at checkpoints with young males. It happened to me many moons ago going through a checkpoint with friends. Hand on my heart that none of us were ever in trouble with the Garda in our lives. All of us taken out of the car and searched (as well as the car) under MDA according to the Garda.

Sure I didn't know any better then and let him search me. Different story today.

Hooch · 16-09-2009 11:00pm

McCrack wrote: »

NGA what you say would be an objective basis for a member to search under the Misuse of Drugs Act, things like previous, known associates, pupils dilated, smells etc. and you can add to these from your own practical experience, all are valid grounds to search.

I don't agree that no Garda will stop and search people for no objective reason. It does happen I'm afraid.

Usually at checkpoints with young males. It happened to me many moons ago going through a checkpoint with friends. Hand on my heart that none of us were ever in trouble with the Garda in our lives. All of us taken out of the car and searched (as well as the car) under MDA according to the Garda.

Sure I didn't know any better then and let him search me. Different story today.

Hense why I said I dont know many members who would do this....anymore anyway;)

Stainless_Steel · 17-09-2009 9:23am

nice guy always wrote: »

Hense why I said I dont know many members who would do this....anymore anyway;)

Myself and my car were searched 4 or 5 times when I was younger. All were at a checkpoint where AGS were checking insurance/tax discs. Although all my paticulars were in order they thought they should ransack the car anyway...the last time I got annoyed and asked why they were searching me, was told that if I've nothing to hide then whats my problem :rolleyes:.....ah sure then let me pull your spare wheel and dashboard apart garda!

Nice guy always - fair play for acting lawfully in your job.

cushtac · 17-09-2009 4:24pm

McCrack wrote: »

cushtac statement that Gardaí have the right to stop & search vehicles for drugs at will is not correct.

Where did I say they had the power to stop anyone at will? At least quote me correctly.

Criminal Record?

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