Actuary

Darragh Harte · 04-04-2011 11:02pm #1

I believe UCD has the only Actuarial course in Ireland.
it has 2 course. A direct Actuary course for like 510 points and a secondary entry route...420 points and in first year you do 3 subjects and pick actuary in 2nd year.
Im looking to join the course but im curious as to know what the points are based on...
My parents believe it is 5 subjects as my brothers course was based on his best 5. But i am unsure as to whether it is 5 or 6. If anyone has more info please tell me?

If it is 510 well then its kinda impossible... 102 points?
Clearly must be 6 subjects for this course. So if it is the general entry which is 420 means 70 points each subject...can only afford to drop one or two Higher subjects to ordinary
Here is a copy of the link to Qualifax...Shows the courses and points required.
http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=15
Hope this helps and if someone can also help me out too lol thanks :cool:

(Im in 5th year also and very interested in Maths and business..2 best subjects :rolleyes:)

tinkerbell · 05-04-2011 6:38pm

There's actuarial courses in DCU, UCD, NUI Galway and UCC.

Richard Cranium · 05-04-2011 6:49pm

tuhubon wrote: »

99.9% of people in here think that actuary isn't a very good idea, which make me even more excited. I really appreciate all your advices, but I have already made up my mind, and willing to do all the hard works or whatever it’ll take to be an actuarial. I’ve had a look around; UCD seems to be the only place the offers actuarial study, isn’t it? Does anyone know some other places?
Thanks!

There are loads of actuarial courses out there, but in some places they're known as "financial" maths as opposed to "actuarial" maths. It's the same difference, since they all offer courses that count towards exemptions for the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries' exams.

Assuming you pick the right modules, and get a first in all of them, you'll be recommended for exemptions in the relevant exam afterwards. UCD, DCU and UCC offer pretty much the same amount of exemptions- UCD (I think) potentially has the most, but you won't be guaranteed to get them just by getting into the course, and in any case having a strong maths degree after four years is by far the most important thing, so they're not the be all and end all by any means. NUIG and UL also have Financial/Actuarial maths degrees, but I don't think they offer as many actuarial exemptions.

I'm doing financial maths myself and I'm really enjoying it. I'd certainly recommend looking into doing maths (actuarial or otherwise) in college if you have a genuine interest in it.

Fremen · 05-04-2011 6:58pm

Heh. Check the date this was originally posted, RC. I doubt he needs your advice either way at this stage.

**Timbuk2** · 05-04-2011 7:06pm

This thread was started in 2004, just in case people don't realise!

Darragh, UCD is not the only actuarial course in Ireland, there is Actuarial Maths in DCU, Queens and equivalent courses in NUIG and UCC.

What you are talking about, in terms of there being two courses, is DCU. there is Actuarial Maths, which was 500 points last year. Then there is Common Entry to Actuarial, Financial and Applicable Maths, which was around 420ish. These two courses share lectures for the first two years, and after Year 2 they split into the denominated groups. So Common Entry students can stream into Actuarial Maths, but only if their grades are good because the students that do Actuarial Maths from the beginning have preference.

UCD has a course called Actuarial and Financial Studies, which was 545 points last year. Unlike Queens and DCU, which offer 8 exemptions in the Core Technical exams, UCD offers these 8 plus an extra one, Core Applications 1 (which is apparently a tough one). but note that it's rare for a student to get all the exemptions, so I wouldn't go rushing halfway across the country for the sake of the possibility for an extra exemption. I'm currently in first year of that course (and loving it!) so if anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me!

Darragh, your Leaving Cert points are calculated by your best 6 subjects. But remember these Actuarial courses often have Maths grade requirements, and you need to get the required grade in maths to get in - if you fail to meet it, you won't get in even if you have 600 points!!!

And as Richard Cranium said, they often have different names, but they're the same. UCD has Actuarial and Financial Studies, Queens has Actuarial Science, DCU has Actuarial Maths, UCC has Financial Maths - despite the names, it doesn't imply that one course is more mathematical than the other, or more leaned towards finance. They are all very similar!

Contrary to some of the advice on this thread, I'd recommend doing an Actuarial-focused degree, like UCD's, DCU's, etc. It takes a while to become fully qualified as an actuary, but getting exemptions speeds it up. Plus, you still do have options having done one of these degrees.

I almost forgot! UCD have a HDip called Actuarial Science, and it's 1 year long. It's geared towards people who do different degrees (e.g. Maths/Physics) and want to become an actuary. They gain up to 8 exemptions from each of the CT exams, but it's quite intense and you need to have a maths-related degree to get in!

Richard Cranium · 05-04-2011 8:31pm

Fremen wrote: »

Heh. Check the date this was originally posted, RC. I doubt he needs your advice either way at this stage.

I meant to quote Darragh Harte, I swear to God!

LeixlipRed · 05-04-2011 9:28pm

Posts moved to new thread. OP, please don't reopen long dead threads, thank you!

brian93 · 25-04-2011 12:55pm

The Actuarial Studies course in DCU, is a qualified teaching council course which means that one can do the Hdip or PGDE after graduation. I'm doing the leaving cert and torn between actuarial studies and a science education (incl. maths) degree.

Was wondering, does the course in Cork 'Financial Mathematics and Actuarial Science' give you the opportunity to do the Hdip/PGDE afterwards? Is it a recognised teachers council course?

Thanks :rolleyes:

Eliot Rosewater · 25-04-2011 2:16pm

brian93 wrote: »

Was wondering, does the course in Cork 'Financial Mathematics and Actuarial Science' give you the opportunity to do the Hdip/PGDE afterwards? Is it a recognised teachers council course?

I don't know the ins-and-outs of the HDip process, but I do know a person who did Financial Mathematics in UCC and subsequently became a teacher.

The distinction between Financial Mathematics and Mathematics straight isn't as sharp as I used to think it was. As I said, you can become a teacher with Financial Mathematics, and you can certainly get into Finance areas with a regular Maths degree.

coffee_cake · 29-04-2011 10:16am

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Contrary to some of the advice on this thread, I'd recommend doing an Actuarial-focused degree, like UCD's, DCU's, etc. It takes a while to become fully qualified as an actuary, but getting exemptions speeds it up. Plus, you still do have options having done one of these degrees.

I will add to this and say yes, it is a lot easier to pass the same exam in uni than the professional ones. You'll also have a higher starting salary

But please also remember that if you don't get into an actuarial course it is not the end of the world, as you can take an actuarial job and do the exams on the side. You have to anyway for at least some of the later exams.

**Timbuk2** · 01-05-2011 11:26pm

I thought I linked this site already, but it seems I haven't. The site www.actuaries.ie is a very good resource for learning about the process to becoming qualified as an actuary.

In particular, these are the exemptions offered by the different universities.

UCD - Bachelor of Actuarial and Financial Studies (BAFS) - CT1-CT8 + CA1
UCD - HDip in Actuarial Science (1 year Postgrad) - CT1-CT8

DCU - BSc. in Actuarial Mathematics - CT1-CT8
DCU - Graduate Certificate in Actuarial Application - CA1 + CA3

UCC - BSc. Financial Mathematics and Actuarial Science - CT1-CT4, CT6 and CT7

UCG - BSc. Financial Mathematics and Economics - CT1, CT3 and CT7

QUB - BSc. Actuarial Studies - CT1-CT8

Don't put too much emphasis on the amount of exemptions offered. It's very possible to not get all of them, and only get some of them, so I wouldn't let the fact that, say, UCD has one more exemption than DCU and QUB be the deciding factor.

I had a look at how many people in the class that finished 4th year in 2011 received all 9 exemptions in UCD BAFS. Out of a class of 37 (if I counted correctly), 20 received all 9 exemptions, 15 or 16 received a considerable proportion of exemptions (but not all), and the remainder 2/3 received only 2, 3 or 4 exemptions - that's from memory, but it was in or around that region.

Richard Cranium · 02-05-2011 11:46am

UCC actually has CT8 as well now, possibly only within the last year or two, I'm not sure.

Anonymo · 02-05-2011 7:09pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I will add to this and say yes, it is a lot easier to pass the same exam in uni than the professional ones. You'll also have a higher starting salary

But please also remember that if you don't get into an actuarial course it is not the end of the world, as you can take an actuarial job and do the exams on the side. You have to anyway for at least some of the later exams.

I've got to disagree with advice suggesting that it's better to do an actuary degree straight through. Unless you are 100% sure that actuary is what you want to do it's better to do something like a science degree - perhaps with maths and statistics as your main subjects - and, afterwards if you are still interested, do the 1 year graduate diploma in actuary (through which you get most, if not all, of the exemptions possible through the degree course anyway). In that way you get a better grounding in maths (or whichever other science subject you choose) and more options for your career going forward. At the expense of one extra year you get a qualification in a broader area as well as getting the exemptions you wanted to in actuary. I should tell you though that I am not an actuary, so this advice is nothing against doing actuary. I do, however, take the viewpoint that it's better to have a broader degree before choosing a specific area.

Grudaire · 04-05-2011 6:53pm

I would disagree with Anonymo. Having a degree in Actuarial Sciences is well regarded, and definitly doesn't tie you into an Actuarial Career.

Depending on where you study the course will cover huge amounts of Business/Economics, Mathematics, Finance and even Computer Programming.

Perhaps the biggest reason to study it in College is the work experience. This helps massively in getting a job as an Actuary. Plus you get to see if you like working as an Actuary.

I'd be very interested to see how many people get exemptions from the Diploma. Getting all 8 CT's in a year and I'd shake your hand :pac: I would say that an Actuarial degree expands on what you need to cover for the professional exams as subjects tend to be split over two modules where each module covers that subject in more detail than the CT notes.

rage against the leaving · 04-05-2011 10:12pm

I'm thinking about doing an actuarial degree, but if i didn't, what degree would suit me best to pursue it as a career afterward?

I was thinking along the lines of engineering, or else a BSc with maths or applied maths in it. Anyone have opinions on this?

**Timbuk2** · 05-05-2011 7:33am

In UCD there's a list of the students that did their final year of BAFS and how many exemptions each got. The majority get a good chunk, with about half getting all of them.

However, the few that did the Actuarial Science Diploma only got a few of them (it's one year so I'd imagine it's much tougher). None of them (there weren't many of them, but I can't recall how many!) got all 8 CT's.

Anonymo · 05-05-2011 12:05pm

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

In UCD there's a list of the students that did their final year of BAFS and how many exemptions each got. The majority get a good chunk, with about half getting all of them.

However, the few that did the Actuarial Science Diploma only got a few of them (it's one year so I'd imagine it's much tougher). None of them (there weren't many of them, but I can't recall how many!) got all 8 CT's.

I'd imagine this is because many of those in the diploma have exemptions from their previous degree, e.g. those that did statistics as part of their degree may be able to get the exemptions for those courses they did in common with the actuary students (I know this is possible in UCD).

Again my advice would be that if you are uncertain about actuary to do a more general science degree. Yes actuary degrees are well recognised but you would probably have a better and broader base if you did a science degree with maths (and statistics) and then did the one year course. I understand the point about the work experience aspect of the actuary course but this is hardly sufficient. You could always try and get into an actuary firm for a summer anyway.

coffee_cake · 05-05-2011 7:17pm

Anonymo wrote: »

I've got to disagree with advice suggesting that it's better to do an actuary degree straight through. Unless you are 100% sure that actuary is what you want to do it's better to do something like a science degree - perhaps with maths and statistics as your main subjects - and, afterwards if you are still interested, do the 1 year graduate diploma in actuary (through which you get most, if not all, of the exemptions possible through the degree course anyway). In that way you get a better grounding in maths (or whichever other science subject you choose) and more options for your career going forward. At the expense of one extra year you get a qualification in a broader area as well as getting the exemptions you wanted to in actuary. I should tell you though that I am not an actuary, so this advice is nothing against doing actuary. I do, however, take the viewpoint that it's better to have a broader degree before choosing a specific area.

My advice was only a strict comparison between the advantages of and differences between doing it in uni and starting off from scratch afterwards.
I would probably agree that it might be better to take a general science degree, but then I'm someone who always regarded uni as learning for its own sake than necessarily using it for a career.
IF you are 100% certain you want to do actuary, then do it in uni. Otherwise, the diploma afterwards might be the best bet.

HelpMePleeease · 13-06-2013 9:07pm

I completely disagree with Bluewolf and Anonymo...

I did the UCD degree course myself...

I work with someone who did the Diploma course and found it extremely hard due to it being one year.

I work with someone who did the exams from scratch.

All of us agree the best approach is a course in terms of structure, content, work experience, employability following college, salary, finishing the exams.

If you choose not to pursue Actuary following the degree you will walk into any business, math based or accounting job.

Don't make the mistake of doing a "broader" degree first. Actuary degree course is about as broad as you can get.

Please don't follow the advice above, you will just waste a few years of your life doing extra exams outside college...

Anonymo · 14-06-2013 10:57pm

well you're entitled to your opinion but i think the advice bluewolf and myself gave is pretty sound. if you're unsure of doing actuary then you can do science and do the majority of the stats courses that way (as well as doing other science courses of your interest). then the diploma course would not be so taxing as you'd have half the course done already ... and you could probably ensure you get those exemptions. so with all due respect your comment is nonsense.

HelpMePleeease · 15-06-2013 3:47pm

The Diploma course is extremely tough from talking to people who did it and from seeing the pressure they are under in the lectures. If you go the science route and then diploma course you will fall down the pecking order when it comes to getting an Actuarial job after college.

After college:
Employers will typically choose someone who has done an Actuarial Degree with college work experience under their belt first.
Then someone who has done an Actuarial Degree with no college work experience.
Then someone who has done the diploma route.
Then someone with no Actuarial college qualification.

See Diploma course link below:
http://www.ucd.ie/graduatestudies/coursefinder/taughtprogrammes/gdip-actuarial-science/

There is nothing wrong with the science route but I don't see the benefit of disadvantaging yourself and putting yourself under so much pressure for the sake of a perceived "broader" science degree when in reality the Actuarial Degree course is extremely broad...

If you complete an actuarial degree course you will walk into any stats, business, accountancy, economics job... and if you wish you can go on to do a masters in statistics... that will be easy to get into.

But doing it the other way around, starting off in a science degree, then deciding to do the pressured diploma course, missing out on the opportunity of getting all 8 CTs, you can't qualify for the CA1 exemption the Diploma route which typically takes an extra year outside college to get, disadvantaging yourself in the eyes of employers, missing out on the work experience... It doesn't make sense to me...

See Degree course link below: At the end of it it tells you how you can branch out into non-actuarial fields if you wish.
http://www.ucd.ie/science/courses/downloads/UCDScience2013_Actuarial&FinancialStudies.pdf

Colonel Sanders · 15-06-2013 4:45pm

HelpMePleeease wrote: »

Employers will typically choose someone who has done an Actuarial Degree with college work experience under their belt first.

Not true in companies I've worked for (general insurers) nor when I've been involved in recruiting grads. A lot of employers dislike full exemption grads as a lot qualify after 2 years and want a salary that can't be justified based on their experience, they don't get it and leave (made worse, from the employers point of view now you can get CA1 in the UCD course). You can also hire a maths grad with little or no exemptions for a lower starting salary. Work experience is a slight advantage but many grads have "work experience" that isn't worth the paper it's written on. It's not wasted from the college students point of view however as it gives them an
Idea of office culture or simply an idea whether or not they'll like the job full time

A lot of employers actually like people from pure maths degrees especially for capital modelling (a growing area)

Thing is more people with actuarial degrees apply for actuarial jobs so more people with actuarial degrees get actuarial jobs

I did a maths degree & while I cursed the fact I'd not done the UCD course while sitting the CTs (or 100 series as they were then) I am glad I did maths rather than the UCD/DCU course now. Easy to be wise after the event however!

locum-motion · 15-06-2013 10:06pm

Jeez, it's a two year old zombie thread, guys!

dropinthocean · 16-06-2013 4:15pm

I'm just wondering does anyone have any experience with doing a maths/financial degree or actuary degree outside of Ireland. I saw that the London school of economics is supposed to be one of the best to go to? Does anyone know if it's better in terms of employability or exemptions to go to a U.K based university rather than UCD/DCU.

764dak · 03-07-2013 4:21am

Is it true an actuary's day to day work doesn't involve a lot of math or stats?

Grudaire · 03-07-2013 9:46am

It involves going to bed on time :pac:

Depends what actuarial job you take really. Most actuaries would have some degree of assumption setting, and model use (and development). For example deciding Mortality rates for pricing/reserving would involve stats.

Other aspects of the job can involve very little maths - for example ensuring data integrity (checking the data for mistakes instead of assuming it's all good data!)

You rarely use the detailed level of maths studied in college, but it is important to understand the maths/stats used.

Colonel Sanders · 03-07-2013 9:26pm

764dak wrote: »

Is it true an actuary's day to day work doesn't involve a lot of math or stats?

Capital modelling is very mathematical/statistical

764dak · 04-07-2013 9:08am

Um, how much computer programming is necessary and what is the best and/or most common programming paradigm?

Colonel Sanders · 04-07-2013 8:22pm

I use:

- SAS (usually to manipulate data). Think they do at least some of this in UCD
- VBA for spreadsheet design & addrd functionality. Anyone with Microsoft office can use this. Also a small bit of SQL to use Access data bases etc
- more specialist actuarial packages (eg Igloo, ResQ & Emblem). Licences are very expensive so no way would you get exposure to these packages at home.
- R is commonly used. I'm not an expert in it & my company doesn't use it extensively but it would be handy to know & the software is open source & free

That's just my experience. I've always worked for a general insurer. Life & Pensions may be different (although SAS & VBA seem to be used almost everywhere). No idea if places use Java, C++ etc

Edited to add: I knew little or no programming when I started work. All was learned on the job

Pythia · 12-07-2013 11:27pm

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I use:

- SAS (usually to manipulate data). Think they do at least some of this in UCD
- VBA for spreadsheet design & addrd functionality. Anyone with Microsoft office can use this. Also a small bit of SQL to use Access data bases etc
- more specialist actuarial packages (eg Igloo, ResQ & Emblem). Licences are very expensive so no way would you get exposure to these packages at home.
- R is commonly used. I'm not an expert in it & my company doesn't use it extensively but it would be handy to know & the software is open source & free

That's just my experience. I've always worked for a general insurer. Life & Pensions may be different (although SAS & VBA seem to be used almost everywhere). No idea if places use Java, C++ etc

Edited to add: I knew little or no programming when I started work. All was learned on the job

Pretty much my experience too. I also work in GI.

Sas
VBA
MS Access
Advanced Excel
Emblem

All learned on the job. I could hardly use Excel leaving college!

Actuary

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