Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Lease / Tenancy Query

Options
  • 09-06-2014 7:47pm
    #1
    BlondeBomb
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭


    Hello :)

    Hoping someone can advise / help me here.

    I have been renting a 3 bed apartment for the last 5 years (Apr 2009).

    I moved in back then with 2 others and originally it was a one year lease that has continued to roll.

    Those 2 have since moved out and I'm the only original tenant, I've looked after the leasing of the other 2 rooms when people moved out.

    What's the situation now if I want to leave or if the landlord wishes to end the tenancy? What would the situation be for the other 2 - one is here 2 years and the other is here 1 year.

    Do different notices have to be served.

    I kinda understand a part 4 tenancy where at 4 years, 4 months notice must be given. What happens then in year 5? Does it return to one month (a bit unfair on tenant) or does it continue to add to the 4 months i.e., 5 month notice?

    I've looked on the PRTB site and am a bit lost. I also don't think my apartment is listed there, what would the implications be for the landlord - Is it a case of just paying the late fee or would they need to backdate the landlord fees to 2009?

    I just want to be aware of my rights if apartment is not registered, ideally I don't want to have to get PRTB involved.

    Landlord also wants to increase the rent, is there any limit on how much this can be raised at all or can it increase to fall in with market value? Is there anyway to check this amount instead of checking current properties on Daft?

    Thanks - sorry for long post.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Ask the landlord how much they wants to raise it; may be best just moving out.


  • Options
    #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,943 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    BlondeBomb wrote: »
    I kinda understand a part 4 tenancy where at 4 years, 4 months notice must be given. What happens then in year 5? Does it return to one month (a bit unfair on tenant) or does it continue to add to the 4 months i.e., 5 month notice?

    I've looked on the PRTB site and am a bit lost. I also don't think my apartment is listed there, what would the implications be for the landlord - Is it a case of just paying the late fee or would they need to backdate the landlord fees to 2009?

    I just want to be aware of my rights if apartment is not registered, ideally I don't want to have to get PRTB involved.

    Landlord also wants to increase the rent, is there any limit on how much this can be raised at all or can it increase to fall in with market value? Is there anyway to check this amount instead of checking current properties on Daft?

    Thanks - sorry for long post.

    Lots of questions there!

    No rent control here, rent can be increased to market value. DAFT is the best indicator of this.

    If the other two haven't signed a lease with the LL, then they have no rights, you can evict them at your leisure. (But best not to be an a-hole about it .. karma 'n all ...)

    Your rights are the same whether or not the tenancy is registered, don't bother your head about that issue at all.

    The 4 year break thing just gives a window in which the LL can break the tenancy for a wider range of reasons (or even no reason at all?). It does not affect the notice period, or re-set it in any way.

    But do remember that the notice period can be less if you mutually agree, eg if one side proposes a 1-month notice and the other freely agrees. the law is very sweet and all, but practical solutions that work for all involved are often a better idea than following the letter of the law.


  • Options
    #4
    BlondeBomb
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭BlondeBomb


    Thanks for that Mrs OBumble.

    The rent increase is a big jump, perhaps it is now in line with current market though.

    As I'm there 4 years and would be giving 4 months notice (unless a different period was agreed to) would I be subject to the new rent for the 4 months remaining or could I continue to pay current rent for the notice period.

    I'm not disputing the rent increase, it's just quite a bit jump and want to be aware of options should it arise.

    No intention of asking other two to move out, just was wondering what their rights were with regards their tenancy.

    So while I would (technically) need to give 4 months notice could landlord evict other two at any point? Would I then be responsible for whole rent as I'd be the only remaining tenant on original lease?

    Thanks again.


  • Options
    #5
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Lots of questions there!

    No rent control here, rent can be increased to market value. DAFT is the best indicator of this.

    If the other two haven't signed a lease with the LL, then they have no rights, you can evict them at your leisure. (But best not to be an a-hole about it .. karma 'n all ...)

    Your rights are the same whether or not the tenancy is registered, don't bother your head about that issue at all.

    The 4 year break thing just gives a window in which the LL can break the tenancy for a wider range of reasons (or even no reason at all?). It does not affect the notice period, or re-set it in any way.

    But do remember that the notice period can be less if you mutually agree, eg if one side proposes a 1-month notice and the other freely agrees. the law is very sweet and all, but practical solutions that work for all involved are often a better idea than following the letter of the law.
    I beg to differ here, Mrs O.

    Any person who is lawfully a licensee of a tenant and who has been in occupation for more than six months is also afforded the rights of a Part 4 tenancy. The licensee may also request that s/he be added to the lease as a tenant and the landlord may not unreasonably refuse that request.

    The OP has stated that he is aware that he must give 4 month's notice if he wishes to leave. This is incorrect - it is landlord who must give 112 days notice if he wants to evict a tenant.
    A tenant who has been in occupation for more than 2 years only has to give 56 days notice.


  • Options
    #6
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,943 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    odds_on wrote: »
    I be4g to differ here, Mrs O.

    Any person who is lawfully a licensee of a tenant and who has been in occupation for more than six months is also afforded the rights of a Part 4 tenancy. The licensee may also request that s/he be added to the lease as a tenant and the landlord may not unreasonably refuse that request.

    Interesting - I didn't know that - have you got a link for it?

    But it hinges (as does the OP's most recent question) on what the lease says: if it says "no subleasing" (some do), then they are not there lawfully, and the LL could indeed boot them out at any moment, and the OP + others named on the lease would be jointly and severally liable for the full rent.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    The RTA 2004, chapter 6, from section 48 onwards.

    It's always best to go to the original source rather than going to the Citizens Info or the Threshold websites.


  • Options
    #8
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    BlondeBomb wrote: »
    I kinda understand a part 4 tenancy where at 4 years, 4 months notice must be given. What happens then in year 5? Does it return to one month (a bit unfair on tenant) or does it continue to add to the 4 months i.e., 5 month notice?

    Its 112 days notice- however for the first 6 months of the second term, the rules governing eviction (aka the list of stated reasons for terminating the lease) do not have to be invoked. Aka- the landlord can bide his time, until the 4 year period of the first term is up- and then terminate the tenancy, without reason. Once a further 6 months is up- he can only terminate the tenancy on one of the stated grounds again.
    BlondeBomb wrote: »
    I've looked on the PRTB site and am a bit lost. I also don't think my apartment is listed there, what would the implications be for the landlord - Is it a case of just paying the late fee or would they need to backdate the landlord fees to 2009?

    Late fee for late registration.
    Potentially he/she could be fined, but I'm not aware of the PRTB using this power (correct me if I'm wrong someone).
    BlondeBomb wrote: »
    I just want to be aware of my rights if apartment is not registered, ideally I don't want to have to get PRTB involved.

    Your rights are exactly as defined under the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act. The fact that the tenancy may not be registered- is immaterial- your rights are the same, and the lack of the tenancy being registered, does not take from your rights.
    BlondeBomb wrote: »
    Landlord also wants to increase the rent, is there any limit on how much this can be raised at all or can it increase to fall in with market value? Is there anyway to check this amount instead of checking current properties on Daft?

    Thanks - sorry for long post.


    The landlord is entitled to review the rent once every 12 months. A review must be in keeping with market rents- aka- if a landlord tries to increase the rent beyond what is the norm locally- you can dispute it. If the increase is only bringing it up to what the prevailing rate is locally- unfortunately- its a legitimate increase, and if you dispute it (which you are entitled to do)- your dispute will likely fail.

    It all depends on whether the increase in rent is bringing the rent up to the prevailing local rates- or not.


Advertisement