The Great Big 9/11 Conspiracy Theory Thread [Megamerge]

So Glad wrote:

Erm, yes. I have read the material regarding Osama Bin Laden and find it, as per usual, to be speculation. They even say themselves "Overall, we can't say with 100% certainty that the tape is real".

There is only one document on that site about Osama claiming responsibility and it discusses the Osama tape. To me, it only proves that it isn't him on it.

Just look at the pictures.

The website is good. But can you not just show me proof?

So Glad wrote:

Conspiracy theories do my nut in.

I'm not going to bother with this thread anymore.

So Glad wrote:

Would there perhaps be a video that I could watch? Maybe something like Loose Change because I don't like reading screens a lot.

Thanks.

So Glad wrote:

I didn't ask for a video because I'm illiterate.

Reading compter screens gives me headache thats all. I'd prefer something in book or video form.

So anyways, sorry for coming across ignorantly. I had a headache from reading. I do agree with you and applaud your answers given. I shall see if I can print out some stuff off www.911myths.com as it seems non byist.

Thanks,

Davitt

Also, what think ye of the delayed response from NORAD? I find that quite rediculous.

reposted for like the third goddamn time wrote:

Waleed and Wail were both mistakenly reported to have been found alive and well, by the BBC later in 2001. They were initially reported in error by a Saudi newspaper editor as the sons of Ahmed Alshehri, a senior Saudi diplomat stationed in Bombay, India. On September 16, 2001, the diplomat Ahmed Alshehri denied that he was the father of the two hijackers. Wail claims he did attend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Florida - but was the victim of mistaken identity, since he used that training to secure his current position with a Moroccan airline company. Saudi Arabia has confirmed his story, and suggested he was the victim of identity theft.

Muhammad Ali Al-Shihri, the hijacker al-Shehri brothers' true father, was identified prior to September 17, 2001, and told Arab News that he hadn't heard from his sons in ten months prior to September 2001.[9] An ABC News story in March 2002 repeated this, and during a report entitled "A Saudi Apology" for Dateline NBC on Aug 25 2002, NBC's reporter John Hockenberry traveled to 'Asir, where he interviewed the third brother, Salah, who agreed that his two brothers were dead and claimed they had been "brainwashed".

Furthermore another article explains that the pilot who lives in Casablanca was named Walid al-Shri (not Waleed M. al-Shehri) and that much of the BBC information regarding "alive" hijackers was incorrect according to the same sources used by BBC. [10]

Take the BBC, for example, which did in fact report, on September 23, 2001, that some of the alleged terrorists were alive and healthy and had protested their being named as assassins.

But there is one wrinkle. The BBC journalist responsible for the story only recalls this supposed sensation after having been told the date on which the story aired. "No, we did not have any videotape or photographs of the individuals in question at that time," he says, and tells us that the report was based on articles in Arab newspapers, such as the Arab News, an English-language Saudi newspaper.

The operator at the call center has the number for the Arab News on speed dial. We make a call to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. A few seconds later, Managing Editor John Bradley is on the line. When we tell Bradley our story, he snorts and says: "That's ridiculous! People here stopped talking about that a long time ago."

Bradley tells us that at the time his reporters did not speak directly with the so-called "survivors," but instead combined reports from other Arab papers. These reports, says Bradley, appeared at a time when the only public information about the attackers was a list of names that had been published by the FBI on September 14th. The FBI did not release photographs until four days after the cited reports, on September 27th.

The photographs quickly resolved the nonsense about surviving terrorists. According to Bradley, "all of this is attributable to the chaos that prevailed during the first few days following the attack. What we're dealing with are coincidentally identical names." In Saudi Arabia, says Bradley, the names of two of the allegedly surviving attackers, Said al-Ghamdi and Walid al-Shari, are "as common as John Smith in the United States or Great Britain."

The final explanation is provided by the newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat, one of the sources of Arab News, which in turn serves as a source to the BBC. Mohammed Samman is the name of the reporter who interviewed a man named Said al-Ghamdi in Tunis, only to find that al-Ghamdi was quite horrified to discover his name on the FBI list of assassins.

During the 1970s and 1980s, the LaRouchites built an international network for spying and propaganda, with links to the upper levels of government, business, and organized crime. The LaRouchites traded information with intelligence agencies in the United States, South Africa, East Germany, and elsewhere. Their dirty tricks record included harassment campaigns against the United Auto Workers and the United Steelworkers of America in the 1970s. In 1980, they branded George Bush an agent of the Trilateral Commission to help Ronald Reagan win the Republican presidential nomination, and in 1984, they helped Jesse Helms retain his U.S. Senate seat by gay-baiting his opponent. During the 1980s, the LaRouchites raised an estimated $200 million through legal and illegal fund-raising and fielded thousands of candidates for political office in every region of the country. Seeking the George Wallace vote, the LaRouche candidates usually ran in Democratic primaries.[2]

In the 1970s, the LaRouchites’ anti-Jewish propaganda was relatively explicit, as in LaRouche’s 1978 article "New Pamphlet to Document Cult Origins of Zionism," which declared that "The B’Nai B’rith today resurrects the tradition of the Jews who demanded the crucifixion of Jesus Christ , the Jews who pleaded with Nero to launch the ´holocaust´ against the Christians."[5] Gradually the LaRouchites developed increasingly sophisticated ways to invoke antisemitic themes while still maintaining deniability.

The LaRouchites borrowed conspiracist elements from various sources to produce their own Manichean picture of world history. For thousands of years, they argued, the good "humanists" had been locked in a power struggle with a vast conspiracy of evil "oligarchs." In ancient times, the oligarchic conspiracy was centered in Babylon; later it shifted to Venice; in modern times it was centered in Britain’s royal House of Windsor. This narrative evoked standard elements of antisemitic doctrine: that Jews had dominated ancient Babylon and that Jewish banking families controlled the British government. Sometimes the LaRouchites highlighted prominent Jews as members of the conspiracy, such as "[Henry] Kissinger ’s friends, the Rothschild family, and other representatives of Britain’s financial power." At other times, they portrayed Jews as unwitting tools of the oligarchs, as for example, "Zionism is that state of collective psychosis through which London manipulates most of international Jewry."[6]

In the days before his death, the gifted student from Golders Green, north-west London, had become involved with the Wiesbaden-based followers of Lyndon LaRouche, an American millionaire with virulent anti-Semitic views. An internal Scotland Yard report describes the German group as possessing 'sinister [and] dangerous connections'.

Unaware of the group's anti-Semitic leanings, the former pupil of Christ's Hospital school told followers that he was Jewish. At 4.20am on 27 March 2003 Duggan rang his mother and told her he was 'under too much pressure'. Minutes later he rang back, his voice hushed and nervous. 'Mum, I am in deep trouble,' he said.

Asked where he was, Duggan began spelling out Wiesbaden. Before he could reach 'b' the phone went dead. Three hours later police were called to investigate reports of a body on the B455 outside Wiesbaden. The authorities quickly pronounced Duggan's death as a 'clear case' of suicide. It is a verdict which Canning believes must now be questioned.

Concerns also surround claims by German investigators that a deep dent on the front right hand door of the Peugeot marked the spot where Duggan struck the vehicle. Canning believes such an indentation is unlikely to have been made by a human.

He said: 'In my opinion, this dent is more likely to have been caused by contact from a heavy instrument, or even another vehicle. I do not believe that the damage to either vehicle was caused by the impact of Jerry's body.' Inexplicably, both cars were moved before Berg photographed the scene.

David Shayler wrote:

"There is a Zionist conspiracy; that's a fact. And they were behind 9/11."

Gradually the LaRouchites developed increasingly sophisticated ways to invoke antisemitic themes while still maintaining deniability.

So Glad wrote:

This is a new video.
By far the best compilation of evidence I have ever seen. Has lots of new clips and evidence, some not even www.911myths.can solve.

Really, I kid you not.

civdef wrote:

By the way, explosive demolition also involves intensive traditional cutting away of structural elements to weaken the structure beforehand, which is done with petrol saws and gas torches - people tend to notice this sort of work. If you didn't do this first you would have a much less predictable result, and would need literally thousands of charges for a large building, with hundreds of miles of det cord and control wires. Again, hard to miss.

AMnewyork wrote:

The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday.

Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday, bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed.

Daria Coard wrote:

"Today was the first day there was not the extra security," Coard said. "We were protecting below. We had the ground covered. We didn't figure they would do it with planes. There is no way anyone could have stopped that."

www.people.com quoting Ben Fountain wrote:

"How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on."

George Washington's Blog: An Interview with Scott Forbes (worked on 90th floor of wtc) wrote:

GW: You've previously stated that on the weekend of September 8 and 9, 2001, there was a "power down" condition in world trade center Tower 2, the South Tower, and that this power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approximately 36 hours from floor 50 up. Do you know what time the power-down started?

SF: All systems were shutdown on Saturday morning and the power down condition was in effect from approximately 12 noon on Saturday September 8, 2001.

GW: When did it end?

SF: Approximately 2PM on Sunday 9/9.

GW: How do you know that there was no electricity from floor 50 up, if Fiduciary Trust was on much higher floors -- starting at the 90th floor?

SF: I can't absolutely verify that there was no power on lower floors ... all I can validate is that we were informed of the power down condition, that we had to take down all systems and then the following day had to bring back up all systems ...

GW: You've previously stated that you were aware of the power down since you worked in the IT department and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. How many other Fiduciary Trust folks were you working with? Can any of them verify your story?
SF: All systems were shutdown on Saturday morning and the power down condition was in effect from approximately 12 noon on Saturday September 8, 2001.

GW: When did it end?

SF: Approximately 2PM on Sunday 9/9.

GW: How do you know that there was no electricity from floor 50 up, if Fiduciary Trust was on much higher floors -- starting at the 90th floor?

SF: I can't absolutely verify that there was no power on lower floors ... all I can validate is that we were informed of the power down condition, that we had to take down all systems and then the following day had to bring back up all systems ...

GW: You've previously stated that you were aware of the power down since you worked in the IT department and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. How many other Fiduciary Trust folks were you working with? Can any of them verify your story?

SF: All systems were shutdown on Saturday morning and the power down condition was in effect from approximately 12 noon on Saturday September 8, 2001.


GW: When did it end?

SF: Approximately 2PM on Sunday 9/9.

GW: How do you know that there was no electricity from floor 50 up, if Fiduciary Trust was on much higher floors -- starting at the 90th floor?

SF: I can't absolutely verify that there was no power on lower floors ... all I can validate is that we were informed of the power down condition, that we had to take down all systems and then the following day had to bring back up all systems ...

GW: You've previously stated that you were aware of the power down since you worked in the IT department and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. How many other Fiduciary Trust folks were you working with? Can any of them verify your story?

SF: Many, many people worked on the power down, both from the IT department and from the business, revalidating systems when they were available again. Other people can validate my information. Some people do not remember the circumstances, some people will not revisit that time ... but others acknowledge the power down freely and can validate my information.

So Glad wrote:

You really are quite an angry person. Maybe you should take your own advise and have a nice walk?

Diogenes wrote:

Meatproduct I apologise, but I suggest if you're unhappy with your life there are better and more productive ways of spending your time, I'm off to take my dogs for walk. Do something, get some excerise, don't waste your life swallowing gullible nonsense.

So Glad wrote:

Possibly true, since there are no other witnesses. I don't deny that. But please, read or scroll down to the bottom to find out why there are a lack of witnesses.

Indeed, good point. I cannot directly give you evidence on how it is possible, all I can do is speculate. Would the builders really need to go to the basement? Why not park from the building and walk through the lobby, since there seems to be no bomb-sniffing dogs there. I also can't see construction workers becoming a visual terrorist threat. Wouldn't they not blend in with the usual characters of New York? Policemen, firemen etc. Since 911myths only indicates ONE dog on duty for both building, I would expect big holes in the security where anyone can pass through.

Another point, what was this dog or any normal bomb-sniffing dog actually trained to sniff? Homemade, crude bombs? Like the stuff used from fertilizer that blew up the Oklahoma building? Or, lets say to support my theory, Thermite, demolition grade contained satchel charges or as suggested by the unusually high amounts of sulphur on the steel, Sulfer Thermite (which melts steel even faster than normal thermite.

So glad school of sniffer dog training wrote:

Trainer 1 Hey lets not bother training them to detect some explosives they'll never be used in a terrorist attack.

Is it possible to conceal such devices? Perhaps cover it's scent?

Given that the World Trade Center if one of the most prominent landmarks and office buildings in America and was a known terrorist threat, wouldn't it not be normal to have EXTRA security anyways?

I hear people saying that for the weeks preceding 9/11 there was extra security and then a few days before 911 it was taken away, thus returning it to normal (with one bomb sniffing dog?). Well, that seems odd to me because I believe extra security should always be place in buildings like these. I'd actually love to glace at a security guard roster from 911 and check this out for myself.

Pitty it was all lost when the buildings came down.



I never mentioned guards being able to stop a plane hitting the buildings. Although, to witness it would be like an uncanny episode of Superman where the security personel give Superman a day off by jumping out of the wtc windows and stopping the plane with their baby finger and redirecting them to their origional airport. Somehow, not possible. I was refering to the detection of bombs Bonks.

"This", is the accusation of security being taken away from the WTC.

So, eyewitness claims are now obsolete? Dang, I thought they were one of the vital components to prove something happened. Since we obviously have no tapes to prove workers entered the building I thought that would be second best?

Another point that I just thought up now regarding why there are such a small number of witnesses to claim building works had taken place is because, well, you see..........they are kinda dead...........sorry.

his method is notoriously unreliable: magnesium itself is hard to ignite, and in windy or wet conditions the strip may be extinguished. Also, magnesium strips do not contain their own oxygen source so ignition cannot occur through a small hole. A significant danger of magnesium ignition is the fact that the metal is an excellent conductor of heat; heating one end of the ribbon may cause the other end to transfer enough heat to the thermite to cause premature ignition. Despite these issues, magnesium ignition remains popular amongst amateur thermite users.

The reaction between potassium permanganate and glycerine is used as an alternative to the magnesium method. When these two substances mix, a spontaneous reaction will begin, slowly increasing the temperature of the mixture until flames are produced. The heat released by the oxidation of glycerine is sufficient to initiate a thermite reaction. However, this method can also be unreliable and the delay between mixing and ignition can vary greatly due to factors such as particle size and ambient temperature.
Another method of igniting is to use a common sparkler to ignite the mix. These reach the necessary temperatures and provide a sufficient amount of time before the burning point reaches the sample.
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Civilian uses



Thermite reaction proceeding for a railway welding. Shortly after this, the liquid iron flows into the mold around the rail gap.


The violent effects of thermite demonstrated in the Utah desert
Thermite reactions have many uses. Thermite was originally used for repair welding in-place such things as locomotive axle-frames where the repair can take place without removing the part from its installed location. It can also be used for quickly cutting or welding metal such as rail tracks, without requiring complex or heavy equipment.
A thermite reaction, when used to purify the ores of some metals, is called the Thermite process. An adaptation of the reaction, used to obtain pure uranium, was developed as part of the Manhattan Project at Ames Laboratory under the direction of Frank Spedding. It is sometimes called the Ames process.
When thermite is made using iron (III) oxide, for maximum efficiency it should contain, by mass, 25.3% aluminum and 74.7% iron oxide. (This mixture is sold under the brand name Thermit as a heat source for welding.) The complete formula for the reaction using iron (III) oxide is as follows:
Fe2O3(s) + 2Al(s) ? Al2O3(s) + 2Fe(s); ?H = -851.5 kJ/mol
When thermite is made using iron (II,III) oxide, for maximum efficiency it should contain, by mass, 23.7% aluminium and 76.3% iron oxide. The formula for the reaction using iron (II,III) oxide:
3Fe3O4(s) + 8Al(s) ? 4Al2O3(s) + 9Fe(s); ?H = -3347.6 kJ/mol
The reaction using Fe3O4 produces a substantially larger amount of energy pr. mol reaction than the reaction using Fe2O3, which produces more energy pr. gram of thermite mixture.
Thermite should not be confused with a thermal lance.
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Military uses

Thermite grenades are used as incendiary devices to quickly destroy items or equipment when there is imminent danger of them being captured by enemy forces. Because of the difficulty in igniting standard iron-thermite, plus the fact that it burns with practically no flame and has a small radius of action, standard thermite is rarely used on its own as an incendiary composition. It is more usually employed with other ingredients added to enhance its incendiary effects. Thermate-TH3 is a mixture of thermite and pyrotechnic additives which have been found to be superior to standard thermite for incendiary purposes. Its composition by weight is generally thermite 68.7%, barium nitrate 29.0%, sulphur 2.0% and binder 0.3%. Addition of barium nitrate to thermite increases its thermal effect, creates flame in burning and significantly reduces the ignition temperature. Although the primary purpose of Thermate-TH3 is as an incendiary, it will also weld metal surfaces together.
A classic military use for Thermite is disabling artillery pieces. Thermite can be used to permanently disable artillery pieces without the use of explosive charges and therefore operate with a reasonable amount of stealth. The 2nd Ranger Battalion used Thermite grenades against the Nazi artillery at Pointe du Hoc during the Allied invasion of Normandy. There are several ways to do this. One method is to weld the breach of the weapon closed by inserting an armed thermite grenade into it and then quickly closing the breech. This makes the weapon impossible to load. An alternative method is to insert an armed thermite grenade down the muzzle of the artillery piece, fouling the barrel. This makes the piece very dangerous to fire. Yet another method is to use Thermite to destroy the traversing and elevation mechanism on the cannon, making it impossible to properly aim the gun..
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