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The return of Declan Ganley

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    He had his shot on Marion Finucane and didn't really do anything more than say "Youse are all lying" and shout across the other speakers. If the response to him here is anything to go by he will be challenged at every turn, which is as it should be. IMO Ballagh is even worse and not the type of representative one might want to argue a position.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭FutureTaoiseach


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He had his shot on Marion Finucane and didn't really do anything more than say "Youse are all lying" and shout across the other speakers. If the response to him here is anything to go by he will be challenged at every turn, which is as it should be. IMO Ballagh is even worse and not the type of representative one might want to argue a position.
    Ganley made an excellent point on Intel's reasons for supporting Lisbon, namely their appeal against the €1.04 billion fine from the European Commission.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Ganley made an excellent point on Intel's reasons for supporting Lisbon, namely their appeal against the €1.04 billion fine from the European Commission.

    Business is not tied to emotions and in Intel's case a billion is really not going to affect them. It is also something that sounds good but can't actually be proved. An appeal just allows them scope to avoid paying it for as long as possible. He also kept shouting about things that had nothing to do with the treaty. I think this comes under that category and if that's a reason for a No vote then there is something awry in people's thought processes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Ganley made an excellent point on Intel's reasons for supporting Lisbon, namely their appeal against the €1.04 billion fine from the European Commission.

    He is less ready to discuss how our vote might link to his commercial interests.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    Very true although the media probably won't pay him any attention if this morning's radio programmes are anything to go by. There seems to be a strategy of ignoring the side that won last year's referendum. Truly, an elitist agenda from those who think they know best what is right for the Irish people better than they do themselves. Another example of this is the abolition of 50:50 airtime on RTE, which I believe is unconstitutional under the Coughlan and McKenna judgements. When the Irish Constitution starts being ignored, democracy is threatened. Article 40.1 of the Constitution confers equality on Irish citizens, and was the basis for the Coughlan and McKenna judgements. That is not being respected by our elites.

    This move is very disturbing and from watching RTE's coverage they are biased towards the yes side.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    This move is very disturbing and from watching RTE's coverage they are biased towards the yes side.

    Well Sean Whelan did say one day last week - "Nothing to report on the No side because there were no events to cover."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Ganley made an excellent point on Intel's reasons for supporting Lisbon, namely their appeal against the €1.04 billion fine from the European Commission.

    how many people does Intel employ in Ireland compared to Ganley's Empire

    please do tell


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭FutureTaoiseach


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    how many people does Intel employ in Ireland compared to Ganley's Empire

    please do tell
    I think Intel employ 4,000 in Ireland. I also think that none of their jobs will be affected by the Lisbon referendum. I don't know how many people Ganley employs in Ireland. But I do know that as a successful international businessman, he understands business and its attitudes to Europe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    I think Intel employ 4,000 in Ireland. I also think that none of their jobs will be affected by the Lisbon referendum. I don't know how many people Ganley employs in Ireland. But I do know that as a successful international businessman, he understands business and its attitudes to Europe.

    Can you please do tell us what does Ganley sell

    and to whom

    The US military officer in the video on the front page of his company would be a clue


    what about the people his involved with and company directors? > http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

    * McEvaddy is the CEO of Omega Air, a US defence contractor (they supply cargo planes and inflight refuelling services to the US military).

    * Declan Ganley, president of Libertas, also happens to be president of Rivada Networks, a US defence contractor (they supply emergency communications networks to the US intelligence community).

    * Lt. General Dennis M. McCarthy (Rivada Director)

    * John J. Kelly, Jr. (Director)

    * Rear Admiral Robert F. Duncan (Vice President, Business Development and Government Services)

    * Admiral James M. Loy (Director)

    * James Tackett (Vice president for Homeland Security)



    thats some company he surrounds himself with and Ganley has extensive connections to the neo-con Republican administration in the US


    does anyone need any short history lessons on how Neo Cons screwed up USA? Declans attitude and "policies" are very neo con, and not to mention his tactics

    /


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    more on Ganley's "friends" and "partners"

    Mr Ganley is to quit his role as chief executive of Rivada and take over as chairman, which will allow him more time to concentrate on the European elections. John Kelly, a former president of Bell Aerospace and a current Rivada director, is to take over the post of chief executive.

    All four newcomers to the board are linked to the international defence industry. They include a former chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff during the Iraqi invasion, Gen Richard Myers; former chief of the UK defence staff, Lord Charles Guthrie; and two former senior officials in the US department of homeland security, Michael Jackson and George Forseman.

    Rivada Networks is a US-based defence contracting firm specialising in the provision of telecommunications systems to the military, police and emergency services in disaster situations and has secured US military contracts worth up to $240million (€190 million). Lord Guthrie, who has served in the SAS, was chief of the UK general staff between 1997 and 2001. He is a cross-bench member of the House of Lords. He was created a life peer after retiring as chief of the defence staff.

    Gen Myers is a former four-star general in the United States air force and served as the 15th chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.

    He was the principal military adviser to George Bush for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

    Mr Jackson is a former deputy secretary of the US department of homeland security. Mr Forseman was the department’s under-secretary for preparedness until 2007.

    The appointments are likely to fuel claims by Mr Ganley’s political opponents that his opposition to the Lisbon Treaty reflects his close links with the US military-industrial complex.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0311/1224242664635.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭FutureTaoiseach


    Oh the good old Irish Times, with 6 articles for the yes side and zero for the no side yesterday. So impartial. So balanced. Rivada played a prominent role in the rescue of civilians in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina through the provision of emergency-disaster relief equipment. An honorable act. I don't agree with the war in Iraq. But just because some people on the board agreed with the war, that doesn't mean Iraq has anything to do with Rivada. And furthermore, might I remind you that Bush was Commander in Chief so they had to follow orders or resign their commission.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Rivada played a prominent role in the rescue of civilians in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina through the provision of emergency-disaster relief equipment. An honorable act. I don't agree with the war in Iraq. But just because some people on the board agreed with the war, that doesn't mean Iraq has anything to do with Rivada.

    agreed with the war?

    some of these directors were in the inner circle urging for the war to start asap
    Gen Myers was the principal military adviser to George Bush for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

    with Ganley joining in on the "reconstruction" pile afterwards in order to make money



    perhaps you should read up on Katrina, the relief effort was an absolute botch job, helping with a disaster does not make it right to hire people responsible for Iraq war or profiting from a needless war

    /


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    more interesting reading on himself

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofeurope/2008/09/us_military_ties_to_the_lisbon.cfm
    A rich Irishman who has dabbled in business dealings from Russia to America, Mr Ganley currently runs a firm called Rivada that does much of its work for US military organisations, including the National Guard. He recently revealed that he had contributed €200,000 to Libertas (he called it a loan, but said it was not yet being repaid). He had previously claimed that most of the group's backing came from small donors.

    "A total of €200,000 came from a single donor who was a key organiser for Libertas and has military procurement contracts with the US government. I ask Dick Roche, the Irish Europe minister, to make sure he carries out a full and thorough investigation so that we can have full transparency."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭passive


    Oh the good old Irish Times, with 6 articles for the yes side and zero for the no side yesterday. So impartial. So balanced.

    As a great American patriot once said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias." ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    passive wrote: »
    As a great American patriot once said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias." ;)

    well if he wants to discredit the IT

    then how about the independent

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/libertas-chief-ganley-brings-former-military-chiefs-on-board-1666789.html


    or the economist

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofeurope/2008/09/us_military_ties_to_the_lisbon.cfm

    or indymedia (which is very anti Lisbon judging by the amounts of NO articles they have)

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

    or village magazine

    http://villagemagazine.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/colm-mac-eochaidh-on-libertas/


    i can go on and on


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    I think contributor put it well on Marian Finucane this morning. Michael O Leary puts a lot behind yes campaign and barely any one objects. But everyone wants to know where Libertas get their money.
    Do you think O Leary is putting any of Ryanairs money into campaign. Is it his own money. Anyone asked?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,225 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    as i suspect you already know ei.sdraob it's not just prominent people looking for a no vote that profit from war.
    it's interesting you don't mention the companies and individuals who pushed for the iraq war that also openly support this treaty.
    of course this is because it does not suit your argument to disucuss these people. if your piece was being a done on someone backing the yes campaign we would see posts reminding you the conspiracy theory forum was this way ----> however, this is not to disagree with you that Ganley is probably against this treaty because it will be bad for some war/conflict-loving sectors in America. i'm just pointing out that hypocrisy and bias is not exclusive to those advocating a no vote.

    you'd be better served to reiterate the merits of passing this treaty.
    the charter of human rights, energy policy, the enhanced cooperation on crime are all excellent reasons to vote yes to the treaty. these are the issues that convinced me to vote yes. not the the lazy fear tactics used by some of you on here. the irony is much like last time fear and issues not related to the treaty will be the reason the majority vote yes this time. of course you others will obviously deny this is the case;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I think contributor put it well on Marian Finucane this morning. Michael O Leary puts a lot behind yes campaign and barely any one objects. But everyone wants to know where Libertas get their money.
    Do you think O Leary is putting any of Ryanairs money into campaign. Is it his own money. Anyone asked?

    Ryanair's money. There's a degree of self-interest here anyway especially in the seat giveaway promotion. If he botches it he'll have to answer to the shareholders. O'Leary's advantage is that anything he says tends to be controversial so he's almost always guaranteed media time.

    Libertas on the other hand, and by extension, Declan Ganley, is a 3rd party i.e. one that can accept donations and so is governed by SIPO.

    A third party means any individual or group, other than a registered political party or election candidate, who or which accepts, in a particular calendar year, a donation exceeding the value of €126.97.
    Full text


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    When you consider that all of the groups from the No side comprise fringe elements of politics, trade unions etc, the No campaign is being overrepresented in the media if you ask me. SF are the only political party campaiging for a No vote that are represented in the Dáil. Declan Ganley is just a private citizen yet his press conferences make headline news. The TEEU only have 40k-odd members yet they were all over irishtimes.com this morning. Patricia McKenna and Kathy Sinnott would rarely if ever get on the TV/radio if it wasn't for their No campaigning. The cynic in me says that part of the reason that these people/organisations are only campaigning for a No vote is so the media will actually take some notice of them, tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    I think contributor put it well on Marian Finucane this morning. Michael O Leary puts a lot behind yes campaign and barely any one objects. But everyone wants to know where Libertas get their money.
    Do you think O Leary is putting any of Ryanairs money into campaign. Is it his own money. Anyone asked?

    he told everyone exactly how much hes spending and where the money is coming from


    we are still waiting on Libertas to disclose that information

    as i suspect you already know ei.sdraob it's not just prominent people looking for a no vote that profit from war.
    it's interesting you don't mention the companies and individuals who pushed for the iraq war that also openly support this treaty.

    such as?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 44 Tridion


    At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who Declan Ganley is.

    He's wrong about the Lisbon Treaty. Full stop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    cornbb wrote: »
    When you consider that all of the groups from the No side comprise fringe elements of politics, trade unions etc, the No campaign is being overrepresented in the media if you ask me. SF are the only political party campaiging for a No vote that are represented in the Dáil. Declan Ganley is just a private citizen yet his press conferences make headline news. The TEEU only have 40k-odd members yet they were all over irishtimes.com this morning. Patricia McKenna and Kathy Sinnott would rarely if ever get on the TV/radio if it wasn't for their No campaigning. The cynic in me says that part of the reason that these people/organisations are only campaigning for a No vote is so the media will actually take some notice of them, tbh.
    Joe Higgins elected to Europe so he has a mandate and Patricia McKenna is no stranger to politics herself as a former Green Party member and former MEP The ideal that all people on No side are all political novices a bit daft really.
    COIR and Libertas maybe lightweights but a bit more respect for McKenna and Higgins. End of the day, they have been around a long time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 44 Tridion


    cornbb, it's because they define their politics by doing the opposite of what the party in power are doing.

    At least Labour, FG etc have the cop-on not to treat the Lisbon Treaty like a political football.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Joe Higgins elected to Europe so he has a mandate and Patricia McKenna is no stranger to politics herself as a former Green Party member and former MEP The ideal that all people on No side are all political novices a bit daft really.

    I never claimed that they were novices. But my claim that they are collectively more or less on the fringe of public life, in comparison with the Yes advocates (almost all of the political parties, trade unions, big businesses, etc), still stands.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    cornbb wrote: »
    I never claimed that they were novices. But my claim that they are collectively more or less on the fringe of public life, in comparison with the Yes advocates (almost all of the political parties, trade unions, big businesses, etc), still stands.
    How are they on the fringe. Higgins is an elected member of the European Party. McKenna and Sinnott have also been elected to the Parliament. So again to say they are on the fringe makes no sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Why are RTÉ news giving this reject airtime?

    He represents no-one but himself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,225 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    ei.sdraob wrote: »

    such as?

    BBVA. BAE Systems Bofors. Diehl BGT Defence.

    these companies are all keen to see the treaty pass. As are people like Peter Sutherland. i'm sure there are many more right-wing organisations that are pro the treaty and who were pro the Iraq war that i'm not aware of. if anyone wants to be even handed about this debate they could point out a few of them or you and others could do what a poster after you suggested: debate the merits of the treaty and forget about who Ganley is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Seeing as this thread is about him, it's not unreasonable to discuss his potential impact on the campaign. Much as we would all love to look at this purely on its merits, personalities and pat and mostly inaccurate messages about Lisbon will be what determine the end result. Ganley and Libertas and any other campaigner for that matter and how they might perform over the remaining weeks is of as much importance as the substance of the Treaty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    Why are RTÉ news giving this reject airtime?

    He represents no-one but himself.

    Reject - Lisbon treaty - RTE news - unelected - that's no way to talk about Brian Cowen now is it.

    On the basis of balanced reporting RTE is compelled to show No campaigners as well as those who wish Ireland to be ruled from Brussels.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Reject - Lisbon treaty - RTE news - unelected - that's no way to talk about Brian Cowen now is it.

    On the basis of balanced reporting RTE is compelled to show No campaigners as well as those who wish Ireland to be ruled from Brussels.

    Let them show Sinn Fein and Joe Higgins, they have mandates...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Let them show Sinn Fein and Joe Higgins, they have mandates...
    To be fair, Marian stood up to Ganley today so there is no question of him getting an easy ride. But RTE though a state broadcaster can not exclude him. They are there to cover the campaign.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    To be fair, Marian stood up to Ganley today so there is no question of him getting an easy ride. But RTE though a state broadcaster can not exclude him. They are there to cover the campaign.

    OK, how do I, or you for that matter, get on?

    You and I are just as elected as Ganley, and have just as much right to be on tv talking about Lisbon.

    Well, maybe except we don't have millions of Euros to spend on an advertising campaign...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    Let them show Sinn Fein and Joe Higgins, they have mandates...

    You don't need to be elected to have a mandate.
    He did receive 70,000 votes in the North West region in the European election.
    FG, Labour and other federalists are given air time so should SF, Joe Higgins and Declan Ganley.

    Perhaps Declan will make middle Ireland sit up and take notice of what fat lips is trying to pass off on the unassuming Irish public.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    You don't need to be elected to have a mandate.
    He did receive 70,000 votes in the North West region in the European election.
    FG, Labour and other federalists are given air time so should SF, Joe Higgins and Declan Ganley.

    Perhaps Declan will make middle Ireland sit up and take notice of what fat lips is trying to pass off on the unassuming Irish public.

    Why shouldn't I, or you then? If the only criteria is having an opinion...

    You might notice that Ganley is the odd man out in your list there, by the way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    OK, how do I, or you for that matter, get on?

    You and I are just as elected as Ganley, and have just as much right to be on tv talking about Lisbon.

    Well, maybe except we don't have millions of Euros to spend on an advertising campaign...
    Ganley is a businessman, Michael O Leary is a businessman. And lets not Tom Parlon who is also campaigning for a yes vote.
    Given that the yes vote is at 63 per cent and No at 15 in todays SINDO poll would take a miracle for a No vote to get through second time around.
    Thats the long and short of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    How many people does Ganleys business employ in Ireland, and how much tax does it pay to the Irish exchequer?

    Ganley is a rich 'elite' with an opinion and an attitude that he has a god given right to be listened to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    Why shouldn't I, or you then? If the only criteria is having an opinion...

    You might notice that Ganley is the odd man out in your list there, by the way.

    Cowen is not an MEP - why should he have an opinion?
    Cowen has not received any mandate from the people of Ireland to be Taoiseach and he talks openly of mandates.
    Of course, he could go to the country and place his faith in democracy.
    Or maybe hold a second general election if he doesn't get the result he wants the first time round.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 44 Tridion


    You don't need to be elected to have a mandate.

    That sentence is entirely incorrect. A mandate is power given to a candidate by the electorate. Ganley was not elected and therefore does not have a mandate. basic, basic, basic politics.
    Perhaps Declan will make middle Ireland sit up and take notice of what fat lips is trying to pass off on the unassuming Irish public.
    What's trying to be "passed off"? A good reform treaty that has lots of benefits for Ireland and other EU countries? That strengthens our hand in:
    1. Climate change
    2. Peace keeping
    3. Human trafficking

    You really think these things are bad??


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,825 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Or maybe hold a second general election if he doesn't get the result he wants the first time round.
    Is there a way he can do that within the scope of our constitution?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    ... Cowen has not received any mandate from the people of Ireland to be Taoiseach and he talks openly of mandates...

    There is no such thing as a "mandate from the people of Ireland to be Taoiseach". Cowen has the only possible mandate: he was elected by the members of Dáil Eireann.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    There is no such thing as a "mandate from the people of Ireland to be Taoiseach". Cowen has the only possible mandate: he was elected by the members of Dáil Eireann.

    No - he was floated into the position when Bertie was outed as corrupt - he should have gone to the country to validate this position at that time.

    Or at the very least he has no right to codemn Declan Ganley as having no mandate - he has received more votes than Cowen has ever done - 70,000 to 13,000 odd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    No - he was floated into the position when Bertie was outed as corrupt - he should have gone to the country to validate this position at that time.

    No. We don't elect the Taoiseach, we elect TDs and they elect the Taoiseach. While it is generally known who will be Taoiseach before the vote there's nothing to stop the TDs to elect some unknown back bencher.

    Cowen recieved his mandate by the people of Laois-Offaly to be a TD and by the Dail to be Taoiseach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    Dinner wrote: »
    No. We don't elect the Taoiseach, we elect TDs and they elect the Taoiseach. While it is generally known who will be Taoiseach before the vote there's nothing to stop the TDs to elect some unknown back bencher.

    Cowen recieved his mandate by the people of Laois-Offaly to be a TD and by the Dail to be Taoiseach.

    Semantics - Cowen has not received a mandate from the people and he knows it - and he will be turfed out next time an election comes around.

    When we vote NO on referenda we also expect that result to be respected.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 44 Tridion


    No - he was floated into the position when Bertie was outed as corrupt - he should have gone to the country to validate this position at that time.
    I'm afraid this is not a legal requirement. We live in a democracy and follow the laws as adopted by our Dail. If you want it to be a legal requirement that resignation of the Taoiseach requires a general election, go and lobby for it and get it passed. Until then, let's leave the coulda/woulda/shoulda out of it.
    Or at the very least he has no right to codemn Declan Ganley as having no mandate - he has received more votes than Cowen has ever done - 70,000 to 13,000 odd.
    This is just plain silliness. Ganley's constitutency was much larger because it was part of the European election. You don't seem to be able to accept the stark reality that Ganley was not elected and does not have a mandate. Get over it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 44 Tridion


    Semantics - Cowen has not received a mandate from the people and he knows it - and he will be turfed out next time an election comes around.
    You're showing your total ignorance of the Irish political system. Taoisigh are given their mandate by the Dail, after being elected as a TD. What part of this are you not getting?

    This is a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty on on Brian Cowen or Fianna Fail.
    When we vote NO on referenda we also expect that result to be respected.
    It was respected. Last time I checked, the Lisbon Treaty hasn't been ratified.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    Tridion wrote: »
    This is a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty on on Brian Cowen or Fianna Fail.

    It was Brian Cowen who said today that Declan Ganley has no mandate.
    My argument is that you don't need to be elected to have a mandate from the people who voted for you - 70,000.
    Opposition spokesmen are given air time all the time and do not hold a position within government - it's recognised that they have a mandate to oppose government policy.

    On European issues you should view Ganley as an opposition spokesman.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    It was Brian Cowen who said today that Declan Ganley has no mandate.
    My argument is that you don't need to be elected to have a mandate from the people who voted for you - 70,000.
    Opposition spokesmen are given air time all the time and do not hold a position within government - it's recognised that they have a mandate to oppose government policy.

    On European issues you should view Ganley as an opposition spokesman.

    The opposition were still elected as TDs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 44 Tridion


    My argument is that you don't need to be elected to have a mandate from the people who voted for you - 70,000.
    You can argue all you want but no matter what way you look at it, Ganley doesn't have a mandate. I'm sorry but the legal definition of a mandate is that you're elected!! You can't just decide that you don't like the legal definition!!
    Opposition spokesmen are given air time all the time and do not hold a position within government - it's recognised that they have a mandate to oppose government policy.
    They have been elected.
    On European issues you should view Ganley as an opposition spokesman.
    I view him as a person who wants a No vote. It's not about the government and as much as you would like to make it that way, it isn't. Governments come and go but the reforms brought about by Lisbon will have lasting changes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    It was Brian Cowen who said today that Declan Ganley has no mandate.
    My argument is that you don't need to be elected to have a mandate from the people who voted for you - 70,000.

    thats exactly where you are wrong. because to have a mandate, one must get elected. its the most fundamental requirement, i'm sorry if you cannot comprehend that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    He did receive 70,000 votes in the North West region in the European election.

    So did Dana!

    Anyway, I wouldn't even worry about Cowen, that is a side issue.

    We had an unelected Government in 94.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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