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Why would you give Labor your vote ?

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  • 16-06-2010 11:20am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭


    Just curious as I am very dissapointed at WHY their popularity has shot up recently and the only reason I can see it is because they tell people what they want to hear (as opposed to desperately needed home truths). .

    They offer nothing definitive, but we all know that at the very least, the public service will be looked after, ( Yay another public partnership paid for by the taxpayers). .

    They wont commit to things like the Croke Park agreement. Right now a procrastinating government is a recipe for disaster.

    They cant actually say where they would make the cuts. . I was on the front-line when Howlin was there saying they already had the 2billion in cuts required. when pressed he kept referring to a document he had, when he read it out, he couldn't actually clarify exactly how they would save the money. Everybody agreed he had simply talked himself into trouble, but this seems to be a distinct feature of labor. All style and no substance. .

    The people of Ireland appear to be lapping up all the waffle that Gilemore throws out. . All he does is bash the government and make general wide-sweeping statements, suggesting he will not let the travesty continue if he gets into power (but never elaborates how he will do it). Have we learned no lessons from B.S'er Bertie ?

    Its unpopular to say anything positive about FF on boards.ie. . But I fear that a fair bit of what they are doing is actually required and people are just too angry to acknowledge it. I also feel that some of FG's problems are that they know that alot of the crap being put on the Irish taxpayers is inevitable/required (so they arent attacking FF as much) and that labor are just saying any old crap to get people to like them, which could cost us all . .

    I hope that this is just the Irish electorate slumming it with labor just in plain anger and dismay at the two biggest party's in the land, but that by the time elections come by, sanity will prevail . .

    Our country needs a great leader (which to be honest we wont get no matter who gets in), but in the absence of this at the very least we need a party that will make the hard unpopular decisions (at least until we are out of the recession properly) and labor do not come across in anyway as a party interested or capable of doing this . .

    I dont canvass for any party, but until I see substance from Labor, I will be imploring people to see sense. .


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Labour


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭i like lamp


    why vote for any of the parties!! i cant see any of them that are genuine! Enda Kenny has shown his true colours!!

    I think Ireland needs a government based on a mixture of people from different parties voted in specifically by the public and who THE PEOPLE think should be in the position! and if the public arent happy with what the person is doing, show them the door!

    Let the people of Ireland take control! is that possible though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    why vote for any of the parties!! i cant see any of them that are genuine! Enda Kenny has shown his true colours!!

    I think Ireland needs a government based on a mixture of people from different parties voted in specifically by the public and who THE PEOPLE think should be in the position! and if the public arent happy with what the person is doing, show them the door!

    Let the people of Ireland take control! is that possible though!

    A mix of people with different ideologies who are immediately fired if they you aren't 100% happy with what they are doing all the time?

    Yeah, sounds like a really stable and efficient system of government.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    Not going to happen as there seems (in my opinion anyway) a huge swath of populist opinion in favour of more socialist parties, Labour being the easier socialist based party to swallow.

    Capitalist leaning parties and capitalist ideals in particular seem to have failed if not destroyed the country.

    What sickens me though is that they (or Capitalism in this country to be more specific) revert back to socialist ideals to bail them out when things go bad :rolleyes:

    It won't work if it's Labour/FG as it'll only end up a mess with socialsm/capitalism being mixed together again. It's either one or the other, not both, it will never ever work with both being intermingled.

    My personal choice at this point in time would be socialism with a socialist party at the helm of government. If that means I have to vote Labour then I will, if I even bother to vote at all that is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,534 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    Who's this Labor you speak of?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I imagine if an election were called today, the results of that poll wouldn't accurately reflect reality.

    IMO, Labour have done well because when the question is asked, Labour are the default only choice left.

    When asked the question, someone is going to snub FF for obvious reasons, they're going to be less favourable of FG because they just appear to be engaging in point-scoring and being contrary with no real backbone behind them. SF have their obvious flaws.
    Which leaves Labour - middle-ground, fence-sitting, bland, Labour. If you have to pick someone, you'll pick the party who you find the least objectionable, and Labour haven't done much to ruffle any feathers (in a good or bad way), so in an on-street poll people pick them.

    You also must consider that this is a poll which doesn't accurately reflect voting patterns. If you take the full figures, then the spread of voter preferences hits 100%. But in reality 100% of people won't vote. In fact, at least 30% of people won't vote for whatever reason. I presume that this poll is set up in such a way that only those people are counted in the poll where they have said a firm "yes" or "no" for any particular party. Anyone who says they're undecided may be struck off from the poll.
    What this means is that FF and FG may have lost a lot of support from people saying "I don't know", but Labour people are still relatively pro-Labour. This means that while Labour's actual support may have not changed much, their "confirmed" support appears larger compared to the other two parties who have lost large amounts of supporters into the grey area.

    In reality, on a voting day, the "I don't know"s will come out and make a decision and will probably go with FF or FG instead of Labour. The poll looks good for Labour, but it's not a bankable result.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭i like lamp


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    A mix of people with different ideologies who are immediately fired if they you aren't 100% happy with what they are doing all the time?

    Yeah, sounds like a really stable and efficient system of government.


    ha at least they wouldnt have a chance to destroy the economy... :P yeah i change my tactics!! give them a week in power and then change to someone else...

    no but what i mean is and this is just an example!
    somebody from greens might be best for the environment
    somebody from fianna fail might be best for education
    somebody from fine gail might be best for health
    an independant party might be best for finance
    etc etc etc!

    i dont vote for a party i vote for which individual regardless of what party i think is best for the job in my constituency, that view may change from year to year based on the needs of the area!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    i dont vote for a party i vote for which individual regardless of what party i think is best for the job in my constituency, that view may change from year to year based on the needs of the area!

    But the point is that that's not their job!

    Re the OP's question, considering the absolute mess that blatant and corrupt capitalism has landed us in, I think a Labour government (assuming that they show a bit of cop-on in terms of the public service) would be good for the country at this stage.

    After all, if "we're all" supposed to share the pain, then the benefits should be spread around.

    FF have shown that they support capitalism until it goes wrong, with people not seeing the benefit of profits (and people being dismissively told to "shop around" when they point out the overheating and rip-off culture); but as soon as the capitalists screw up, they bail them out with our money.

    So it's perfectly understandable if lots of people are saying "feck that, so".


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    i dont vote for a party i vote for which individual regardless of what party i think is best for the job in my constituency, that view may change from year to year based on the needs of the area!

    That is a councillors job and that is what's wrong with National Politics in this country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    This post has been deleted.

    ...and if he doesn't - people will be left to vote for Enda, which is just not going to work out, ever, no matter how many old grannies from around the country say how lovely he is, and isn't his hair always lovely too...


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Labour are riding a protest wave at the moment.

    Gilmore is whinging and some people are identifying with that, especially those from the Public Service who would normally vote for Fianna Fail. Whether they can actually turn the poll numbers into seats is another story.

    I am an ex Labour party member and I certainly will not be voting for them given their inability to smell the roses and realise that drastic changes have to be made to the Public Service that will involve very unpopular cuts. I am especially uncomfortable that some one of the calibre of Jack O'Connor is on the National Executive given his propensity for living in an alternative reality to the rest of us in Ireland.

    I do think they actually know this but are hoping to ride the wave into power come out with the old line "The previous Government did not make clear how bad the situation actually is" and the go ahead and make the necessary cuts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    OP why do you even ask such a question? We're dealing with 13% unemployment, huge cuts to public services and the wealthy Irish elite are untouched, of course people are going to vote left.

    Lol at at the usual suspects predicting disaster if Labour took power, the parties of the right championed the development of Celtic Tiger into the bubble and all the excesses it involved and meekly agreed to socialising the Banks & developers debts.

    Labour have for decades championed the causes of electoral reform, universal healthcare, reinvention of the public services and making Ireland internationally competitive, Ruari Quinn is the only man with the necessary experience to guide the economy back to growth as a MoF.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer



    Labour have for decades championed the causes of electoral reform, universal healthcare, reinvention of the public services and making Ireland internationally competitive, Ruari Quinn is the only man with the necessary experience to guide the economy back to growth as a MoF.


    That is one out there political platform to be running on.

    He wants to make things work better and make us more competitive?


    What a radical!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    That is one out there political platform to be running on.

    He wants to make things work better and make us more competitive?


    What a radical!

    I know, Labour aren't even a party of the Left, left of centre would be more apt. Which means people calling 'Labor' a socialist party all the more hilarious!.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    I know, Labour aren't even a party of the Left, left of centre would be more apt. Which means people calling 'Labor' a socialist party all the more hilarious!.



    I think shameless populist would be more apt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    I think shameless populist would be more apt.

    Well if thats what the boys in the FF press room say then it must be true. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Well if thats what the boys in the FF press room say then it must be true. :pac:



    Right...


    Thinking that Labours "We're going to make things better!" political platform is such trite rubbish must mean FF's press room something something something


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Right...


    Thinking that Labours "We're going to make things better!" political platform is such trite rubbish must mean FF's press room something something something

    I assume you have researched Labour policy documents to arrive at such a conclusion then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    I assume you have researched Labour policy documents to arrive at such a conclusion then?



    I assume you've researched my political views and background to arrive at your conclusion about me being "FF PRESS ROOM BLAH BLAH BLAH" then?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    I assume you've researched my political views and background to arrive at your conclusion about me being "FF PRESS ROOM BLAH BLAH BLAH" then?

    Answer my original question please. You talk in a negative manner about Labours political platform, what are you basing this on?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,172 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Why would you give Labor your vote ?
    To hasten the arrival of the IMF?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    OP why do you even ask such a question? We're dealing with 13% unemployment, huge cuts to public services and the wealthy Irish elite are untouched, of course people are going to vote left.

    Lol at at the usual suspects predicting disaster if Labour took power, the parties of the right championed the development of Celtic Tiger into the bubble and all the excesses it involved and meekly agreed to socialising the Banks & developers debts.

    Labour have for decades championed the causes of electoral reform, universal healthcare, reinvention of the public services and making Ireland internationally competitive, Ruari Quinn is the only man with the necessary experience to guide the economy back to growth as a MoF.

    I must reiterate . . I would be a "floating voter" if there is such a thing . . I am simply not a party person . .

    I actually have no problem with most parties and their ideals, its the people in the parties that are my problem. .

    I implore people to vote for a candidate that mirrors their core principles and to demand more accountability within our elected officials (make it known to them).

    I have no problem with Labour other then their agenda appears to be more about getting populist rhetoric onto the airwaves and pleasing the majority of people that dont really give much thought to politics or how it affects us all, instead preferring to hear what they like to hear . . As somebody who feels passionately about our country and how its run, I feel so disillusioned with how people justify certain thinks done in politics because "thats the way it is done" . . Labour are simply looking for votes at my expense . . They get votes off ignorant people who dont ask tough questions of them because they are hearing whatever they like to hear . .

    I couldn't tell you what labors plans are, simply because they dont commit to much publically.

    I remember talking to a friend in the FF press office and I was giving out that FF treat us like idiots by not discussing important aspects of our economy (NAMA etc). . They told me that most people do not want to know about it . . they want to be told everything will be alright and that they wont have to pay much more for it. . Apparantly I am in the 5% minority that actually want to see everything . . I want to see how the government comes to a conclusion on something and what sort of SWAT (strengths, weaknesses , opportunities, threats) analysis has been done. But apparantly, most people dont want to know about it. . They just want things sorted. .

    Labor offer them that answer , which scares me . . Funnily enough, I would be more labor orientated if I didn't believe that they were full of hot air and going to look after the self interested public service unions . . Some of the general statements from labor can be upsetting . . Not asking questions of our government and their motives for doing things is a major reason we are in this mess . . To let the new government into power without demanding more answers would be simply criminal (and we would deserve everything disastrous that may unfold).

    I tell you what, if you can explain to me how labor would set themselves up , make those 3bil cuts, deal with croke park agreement/public servants and deal with the banks (if they were in tomorrow) and outline how this will benefit the country long term, I might just stop my anti-labor post. .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Drumpot wrote: »
    I must reiterate . . I would be a "floating voter" if there is such a thing . . I am simply not a party person . .


    ....I remember talking to a friend in the FF press office....
    ..

    i'm finding it hard to reconcile these 2 statements.

    *Edit* and for flip sake at least have the cop on to spell Labour correctly we are not in the USA!.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    I won't


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    i'm finding it hard to reconcile these 2 statements.

    Why ? Do you not have friends in other parties ? Do you find it unbelievable that I have a friend who works in FF and just dont happen to be a party person ?

    If I was Cowan himself, how does that make my concerns any less valid?

    Either way, can you answer my questions or will you hide behind your insinuated conspiracy that I am in someway connected to FF?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Why ? Do you not have friends in other parties ?

    Do you feel it allows you to ignore the core debate ?. .

    If I was Cowan himself, how does that make my concerns any less valid?

    Either way, can you answer my questions or will you hide behind your insinuated conspiracy that I am in someway connected to FF?

    Well you are a 'floating voter' who happens to know people in the FF press office. Would i be correct in saying you are in a fact a FF voter? or at the very least a former FF voter?.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Well you are a 'floating voter' who happens to know people in the FF press office. Would i be correct in saying you are in a fact a FF voter? or at the very least a former FF voter?.

    I voted for Independent (cant remember who, was my first vote), FG (x2 - Micky joe cosgrave, Gavin doyle) and FF (Thomas Byrne) in the past . . I would class that a floating voter . .

    Either way, how does that make my concerns any less valid even if I had voted FF all the time ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Drumpot wrote: »
    I voted for Independent (cant remember who, was my first vote), FG (x2 - Micky joe cosgrave, Gavin doyle) and FF (Thomas Byrne) in the past . . I would class that a floating voter . .

    Either way, how does that make my concerns any less valid even if I had voted FF all the time ?

    Because i'm pretty sure you have no intention of voting Labour and are just looking to attack them.

    Exhibit A:
    Drumpot wrote: »
    ....I imagine you are one of the "new labor" followers . . This country will collapse into anarchy if Labor become the biggest party and take control of our economic policy. The ONLY people who will be happy will be the public servants who were happy to be Bought by FF in the good times (and are now looking to dissasociate themselves as much from them, it wasnt just the builders whom FF were courting in the good times!) . .

    You sound like the kind of guy who misses the PDs, maybe get onto McDowell and try and get him to stand again?. At the very least your politics seem centre right. I doubt Labour would ever appeal to your type.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16 doodd


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Labour

    Why would you bother.


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