Taxi Drivers for No - Workers turn against Lisbon

dvpower · 28-09-2009 3:05pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Taximen are a very strong no group and will make their voice heard.

Hate to burst your bubble, but you do realise that the vote is taking place in 4 days time? You're entering the campaign a bit late in the day to make your voice heard.

mizhell · 28-09-2009 3:05pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Ah mizhell you're well behind the times.

'Taxi Drivers for NO' got 30 calls this morning about their leaflets and posters.
28 taximen thought they were fantastic and promised support.
Two people, of whom you are one - were giving off.

He's very encouraged by the response and will go at this No campaign full tilt.
Taximen in Cork and in the West, as well as Dublin and Dundalk have taken this up and are running with it themselves.

Like most ordinary working people - those outside FF circle of patronage - taxidrivers will vote NO on Friday.

Can't wait to Friday.

@ free to prosper - sorry are you talking about Clem? I have received an email and I have been conversing via phone with Clem all morning, he told me that he is disgusted that this particular party group has printed his personal details on these posters, feel free to contact him yourself I wont give out his details on a public forum as I have morals unlike this particular group who has posted his details all over the country! he's also told me that he has been receiving phone calls from all manner of yahoo's since saturday because of these posters so I'm not sure where your getting your info from there pal

mizhell · 28-09-2009 3:09pm

free to prosper wrote: »

EI.doabs whatever

So are you now threatening to ring up to attempt to intimidate the man?

Very poor form if that is what you intend to do.

Mizhell is on a wishful thinking trip.

Taximen are a very strong no group and will make their voice heard.

The government have ignored and mistreated them long enough.

also is it only taximen that are a very strong group? because in that case I can rest easy seeing as I am a taxiwoman :rolleyes:

OldJay · 28-09-2009 3:09pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Taximen are a very strong no group

No, they're not. Not even in the slightest.
All they have the power to do is bugger traffic up.

mizhell · 28-09-2009 3:19pm

this might help clarify some of the argument a particular person in this link has allegedly admitted to putting these posters up without the knowledge of Clem who is listed as the contact name on the bottom of the poster
http://www.politics.ie/elections/69737-dana-pal-herman-kelly-secretly-running-libertas-east-campaign.html

prinz · 28-09-2009 3:36pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so who are they?

1.

The EU Institute for Security Studies is an integral part of the structures established to develop a Common Foreign Security and Defence Policy for the European Union. PANA stands for a Partnership Europe. A Partnership of Independent Democratic States without a military dimension. The EU ISS stands for the exact opposite and has a great deal more money than we have. We need to build a Democratic Alliance not just in Ireland but throughout the EU. To do so we need to gain some knowledge of what the ISS is thinking.

from http://www.pana.ie/

2. Here we see a group calling itself Democratic Alliance registering as a Third Party on the referendum

http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/Reports/OtherReports/ReportsonThirdParties/100309-ReporttotheMinisterfortheEnvironmentonThirdPartiesandtheReferendumontheTreatyofLisbon/Name,9770,en.htm

3. And this is the best one

Check out the piece on the bottom right, bemoaning the opening of Stringfellows and it's effect on Ireland's "emotional environment"...... signed off by Tom Molloy, Democratic Alliance

http://www.educationforpeaceireland.org/echo/may/MayEcho_files/page0003.htm

4. Also a post here towards the bottom of the page (not sure how to open a single post) dated 11/9/09 identifying the Democratic Alliance as giving out No to Lisbon leaflets the previous day on Grafton St.

http://machinenation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=89198#p89198

Perhaps they're all related, perhaps not.

ei.sdraob · 28-09-2009 3:44pm

mizhell wrote: »

this might help clarify some of the argument a particular person in this link has allegedly admitted to putting these posters up without the knowledge of Clem who is listed as the contact name on the bottom of the poster
http://www.politics.ie/elections/69737-dana-pal-herman-kelly-secretly-running-libertas-east-campaign.html

why oh why does Libertas seem to have a hand in every hole of this campaign...

Capt'n Midnight · 28-09-2009 4:03pm

mizhell wrote: »

@Capt'n Midnight - you might find that taxi's in Ireland are actually one of the cheapest in Europe, I appreciate your point but misinformation on this poster is more so the concerning factor dont you think?

The point is that the general public won't see taxi drivers as a special needs group that deserves more money to the extent that they would be prepared to vote on their behalf.

The poster could be seen as anti-foreigner , anti-competition, jobs for the boys sort of thing regardless of the rights and wrongs.

Rb · 28-09-2009 4:33pm

The same taxi drivers you wish had a "mute" button when they start blabbering ignorantly about the state of the country and the black people in the taxi industry, I would bet.

Best off ignoring the idiotic conmen, more competition in the taxi industry would be welcome.

free to prosper · 28-09-2009 4:44pm

Cutting out the waffle.
Taximen have been very badly treated by the government.
There are now far too many of them for anyone to make a living wage.

Competition has become race to the bottom.

Taximen have every right to fight back against Government mismanagement

and what they see as race to the bottom in the EU - cf Laval and Ruffert judgement by the ECJ.

So they're getting together and actively campaigning for a NO vote to Lisbon.

They're happy with their NO position and now mean business.

Dinner · 28-09-2009 4:45pm

free to prosper wrote: »

and a what they see as race to the bottom in the EU - cf Laval and Ruffert judgement by the ECJ.

Which couldn't happen in Ireland, of course.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 28-09-2009 4:50pm

free to prosper wrote: »

and what they see as race to the bottom in the EU - cf Laval and Ruffert judgement by the ECJ.

Hi FTP,

Can you explain what happened in the Laval judgement please?

Rb · 28-09-2009 4:52pm

If we want to attract investment here and create jobs we're going to need to lower wages anyway so I don't see why people are so worried. Taximen in particular, biggest crooks in the country, did anyone see them dropping their rates when the price of petrol dropped? I don't think so.

If they hadn't been so greedy in the first place, perhaps their industry wouldn't be so overly saturated. If people are willing to work for less, which they damn well should, then tough tits to the moany f*cks behind this campaign.

Btw, I don't think you can start a post with "Cutting out the waffle" and then fill it with uninformed crap.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 28-09-2009 4:56pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Cutting out the waffle.
Taximen have been very badly treated by the government.
There are now far too many of them for anyone to make a living wage.

How do you decide which ones to ban from it?

free to prosper · 28-09-2009 4:58pm

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Hi FTP,

Can you explain what happened in the Laval judgement please?

Personally I' m more interested in the Ruffert judgement and the attack on the minimun wage.

Be a good boy Buckfast, run along and look it up yourself. You've got google and access to the internet like everyone else.

Sam Vimes · 28-09-2009 4:59pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Cutting out the waffle.
Taximen have been very badly treated by the government.
There are now far too many of them for anyone to make a living wage.

Competition has become race to the bottom.

Taximen have every right to fight back against Government mismanagement

I fully agree but see no connection between that and the Lisbon treaty

free to prosper wrote: »

and what they see as race to the bottom in the EU - cf Laval and Ruffert judgement by the ECJ.

Which could not possibly happen here because Sweden has not minimum wage and even if it could happen here, it still has nothing to do with the Lisbon treaty because the Laval and Ruffert cases took place in the past and therefore could not have been allowed by anything in the treaty

Rb · 28-09-2009 4:59pm

free_to_prosper wrote:

Personally I' m more interested in the Ruffert judgement and the attack on the minimun wage.

Be a good boy Buckfast, run along and look it up yourself. You've got google and access to the internet like everyone else.

Translation: I haven't a fucking notion about that judgement, please let me sidetrack and try to be condescending lest I embarrass myself any further.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 28-09-2009 5:05pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Personally I' m more interested in the Ruffert judgement and the attack on the minimun wage.

Be a good boy Buckfast, run along and look it up yourself. You've got google and access to the internet like everyone else.

Then why mention Laval? I'll take it from your response you don't see Laval as an issue then? I trust you'll never mention it again.

My google is broken, can you explain what happened in the Ruffert case?

free to prosper · 28-09-2009 5:07pm

Charter of "Fundamental" Rights is retractable at whim of the EU institutions.

The Explanatory Memorandum as prepared by the Praesidium of the

Convention which drafted the Charter on the interpretation of article 52 of the CFR states: ‘it is well established

in the case-law of the European Court of Justice that restrictions may be imposed on the exercise of fundamental rights, in particular in the context

of a common organisation of the market .’

Using article 52 of the Charter, the EU court rulings in the Laval and Ruffert

Cases, means that workers contracted by firms from Eastern Europe can

work in Ireland for the national minimum wage, thus breaking union wage

agreements and undercutting Irish workers.

This ECJ ruling means that Irish workers can not strike over this Irish Ferries’ style race to the bottom, because the free movement of services

has higher priority than collective bargaining.

If Laval and Ruffert are fully implemented, the jobs and wage conditions of

many Irish workers will be put at risk.

free to prosper · 28-09-2009 5:09pm

Article 52 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights attached to the Lisbon Treaty states

that the rights conferred by it can be limited [ie. withdrawn] to meet “objectives of general interest recognised by the Union.”

That means these rights are retractable at the whim of the EU leaders.

Making this more dangerous, Declaration 17 of Lisbon lays out that EU law

trumps and has primacy over the law of member states in many areas of life.

Come referendum day you will be asked to pass an amendment saying -

“No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted .....by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties

referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State." - ie

A horse and coaches can be driven through our own tried and trusted Constitution.

The Lisbon Treaty makes EU institutions more powerful, but less accountable.

We must vote no in this referendum to protect the solid Constitutional rights of every Irish person.

Sam Vimes · 28-09-2009 5:09pm

Is this your source for the above:

http://www.politics.ie/lisbon-treaty/30358-lisbon-will-undermine-workers-rights-art-52-charter.html#post1049905

(first result from googling the first sentence)

Sam Vimes · 28-09-2009 5:10pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Come referendum day you will be asked to pass an amendment saying -

“No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted .....by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties

referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State." - ie

A horse and coaches can be driven through our own tried and trusted Constitution.

That's been there since 1973 but don't let a little thing like reality get in the way of a good rant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

edit: I see he cut out the bit that would have made it obvious it was already in the constitution: "necessitated by the obligations of membership of the Communities". Now that's good deception

Rb · 28-09-2009 5:11pm

http://www.politics.ie/lisbon-treaty/30358-lisbon-will-undermine-workers-rights-art-52-charter.html

Are you Brio910 or just speaking on his behalf?

oscarBravo · 28-09-2009 5:13pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Charter of "Fundamental" Rights is retractable at whim of the EU institutions.

[...]

If Laval and Ruffert are fully implemented, the jobs and wage conditions of

many Irish workers will be put at risk.

If you're going to copy-and-paste instead of participating in the discussion, at least have the courtesy to attribute the sources.

free to prosper · 28-09-2009 5:14pm

speak on his behalf

Rb · 28-09-2009 5:16pm

free to prosper wrote: »

speak on his behalf

Not so, passing off his posts as your own is pretty low, but certainly not unexpected from the No side. Hence the immediate googling.

Take a bow.

Sam Vimes · 28-09-2009 5:17pm

free to prosper wrote: »

speak on his behalf

What do you have to say about the fact that the article he claims that voting yes will insert into the constitution is already in the constitution and has been there for 36 years and that he edited it to deliberately hide this fact?

PopeBuckfastXVI · 28-09-2009 5:17pm

free to prosper wrote: »

Charter of "Fundamental" Rights is retractable at whim of the EU institutions.

The Explanatory Memorandum as prepared by the Praesidium of the

Convention which drafted the Charter on the interpretation of article 52 of the CFR states: ‘it is well established

in the case-law of the European Court of Justice that restrictions may be imposed on the exercise of fundamental rights, in particular in the context

of a common organisation of the market .’

Using article 52 of the Charter, the EU court rulings in the Laval and Ruffert

Cases, means that workers contracted by firms from Eastern Europe can

work in Ireland for the national minimum wage, thus breaking union wage

agreements and undercutting Irish workers.

This ECJ ruling means that Irish workers can not strike over this Irish Ferries’ style race to the bottom, because the free movement of services

has higher priority than collective bargaining.

If Laval and Ruffert are fully implemented, the jobs and wage conditions of

many Irish workers will be put at risk.

Oh look, you just mentioned Laval again, after you said it wasn't an issue for you. Perhaps you'd like to explain the Laval judgement now?

What about actually explaining the Ruffert judgement. I'm not sure that it does what you say. Maybe you can actually go through the circumstances of the case, and the effect of the judgement?

As far as I'm aware, both the Laval and Ruffert judgements have taken place (that's why they're judgements, not ongoing cases, what makes you think they haven't been 'implemented' yet?

free to prosper · 28-09-2009 5:19pm

unlike Irish constitution in which rights for most part have a natural law basis,

the rights in the CFR are not rights per se, but gifts which can be taken away by EU institutions.

For article 52 alone, Lisbon should fall.

The idea that a state can take away your "fundamental" rights is laughable if it weren't so dangerous.

I call art 52 the Reichstag clause.

Shows how serious the thought of making these rights retractable really is.

Hence, judgements like Ruffert etc are like the first birds of spring - flowing from art 52 of Charter.

Sam Vimes · 28-09-2009 5:19pm

free to prosper, how many times must we prove that you have been lied to before you will realise that these people are making a fool of you?

Taxi Drivers for No - Workers turn against Lisbon

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