Willie O'Dea Posing With Firearms

ferdi

i hate FF and all mainstream politics in irlenad and the world as awhole but personaly i like to see my minister of defence holding a gun

HybridTech

Freelancer wrote:

....... it should be respected.

I've read back through my posts and can't see anywhere that I was disrespectful to anybody. If anything I was offering, what was imo, a perfectly logical potential reason for the refusal of license granting.
I've shown respect to Sparks, will continue to, and haven't resorted to using words like

Freelancer wrote:

"sh*t"

in any post. I do, however, disagree with this issue being latched on to over something that happened (or didn't happen in this case) 33 years ago.

It is a debate and I'll run or walk away when I'm finished, thanks.

My initial post on this was that it was a storm in a tea-cup, a big deal being made out of something for little reason.
I still think it is.

Freelancer

HybridTech wrote:

I've read back through my posts and can't see anywhere that I was disrespectful to anybody. If anything I was offering, what was imo, a perfectly logical potential reason for the refusal of license granting.
I've shown respect to Sparks, will continue to, and haven't resorted to using words like in any post.

Heavens to betsy, I'll try to not use any harsh words less I offend your sensitive eyes.

I do, however, disagree with this issue being latched on to over something that happened (or didn't happen in this case) 33 years ago.

*L* in case you don't realise, O'Dea used the law to recently forbid licences. Suggesting this photograph is being used to drag up an ancient argument, ignores how current the grievance is.

It is a debate and I'll run or walk away when I'm finished, thanks.

My initial post on this was that it was a storm in a tea-cup, a big deal being made out of something for little reason.
I still think it is.

Thats nice however you've started arguing with the one group of people who have a legitmate grievance on this. O'Dea took a photo with demostrates him behaving in the exact manner he felt was grounds to disallow target shooters from gaining access to firearms.

Comparing the two photos is a bogus argument.

Victor

HybridTech wrote:

Look at it again. I've enlarged it a bit and posted it here: Attachment not found. That is definitely pointing at the camera person! The implication was to amount of time handling weapons, as in experience not safety. One or two weeknights and weekends v. daily.

Of course the slight difference is that it isn't on the front of the Irish Times.

BrianD

I was just looking at the set of photos in Irish Times of Private Willie O'Dea at the front line. If ever there was a man who could do with a PR advisor here he is. Instead of the minister posing with a member of the defence forces showing him the latest weapons technology, there's Willie brandishing guns like a man gone postal. You don't see his equivalent in the UK, USA or elsewhere acting in such a manner. However, this is typical of the calibre of front line ministers who call Turkish workers 'kebabs', take "a hit" on certain projects such as voting machines and then point guns at the meeja.

I also noticed on the RTE TV report that one of the Rangers personnel appeared to be wearing a balaclava. In fact he looked like one of the guys in the PIRA videos. I know the rangers need their identities protected but surely an unmasked member would have been available to speak?

There seems to be a renewed interest in promoting the Defense Forces as a professional and well equipped fighting force - better funding, new kit down to details such as smarter uniforms. In the past they were always regarded as a bit of a joke especially with the deafness claims. Media attention has been good - especially the recent deployments to Liberia. This was not just a bad PR exercise for the army and the minister, it was plain stupid. Bet that will be the last we'll of the Rangers for a long time.


In a sense the opposition were grasping at straws in attempting to link it to other events. What they really should have been saying "How idiotic was that, and you the Minister for Defense???"

Victor

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=134384840&p=y343854zx&n=134385449

Just to note there is a photo with that article.

Mighty_Mouse

jeez! is this thread still going!! These are the kind of gun fanatics that shouldn't have guns if you ask me!

Maskhadov

wow.... i didnt realise that one photo would generate so much discussion :O

biko

I spoke to Willie today and he said "Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
Another conversation: http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2003/s_jn-p1.php

HybridTech

"Heaven to betsy"! :eek:
Is this still running?
I thought we were supposed to run away from this thread, not express our opinion nor disagree with anybody who may have a legitimate grievance?!

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2003/s_jn-p1.php = Class

Freelancer

HybridTech wrote:

"Heaven to betsy"! :eek:
Is this still running?
I thought we were supposed to run away from this thread, not express our opinion nor disagree with anybody who may have a legitimate grievance?!

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2003/s_jn-p1.php = Class

Wow someone has a "must get the last word" syndrome. Even if the last word is a spurious jpg. Apt really considering how dubious your defence of the minister was in the first place.

HybridTech

Freelancer wrote:

Wow someone has a "must get the last word" syndrome. Even if the last word is a spurious jpg. Apt really considering how dubious your defence of the minister was in the first place.

Try listening to the "spurious jpg"!
My defence was of nobody. I was against the sanctimonious pontificating that was happening on this thread! The "holier than thou" attitude of some people. You'd swear they never made a mistake in their life.

Hibernian2005

This is much ado about nothing. A pose for the cameras is hardly incitement to violence. :rolleyes:

Victor

But he's from Limerick ....

spudington16

Hibernian2005 wrote:

This is much ado about nothing. A pose for the cameras is hardly incitement to violence. :rolleyes:

Good man! The whole thing was blown out of proportion (pardon the pun..! :rolleyes: ) It's hardly as if people will take this as an incentive to commit violent crimes or anything.

spudington16

spitfier wrote:

How in God's name can anyone be offended by the Minister For Defence posing with with a gun? If he's not allowed do it, who is? The cameramen asked him to pose with the gun. This issue has all been exaggerated for no other reason then to make a stab at the government. I'm not an especially pro-govt supporter but surely no one can logically argue that the minister did anything wrong?

I fully agree. In fairness, given the fact that he's the Irish Minister for Defence, perhaps we should be thankful the gun was being pointed the right way... :rolleyes:

eoin_ie wrote:

I think it's got less to do with the fact that he posed with guns and rather that he aimed one at the camera with a moronic grin on his face.

Maybe that's just his normal smile. (See above...)

Freelancer

HybridTech wrote:

Try listening to the "spurious jpg"!

Metaphor and anaolgy aren't your strong point. Fair enough.

My defence was of nobody.

Yes it bloody was. You defended O'Dea and then went to the trouble of digging out a jpg you claimed supported your pov.

I was against the sanctimonious pontificating that was happening on this thread! The "holier than thou" attitude of some people. You'd swear they never made a mistake in their life.

Ah the classic "Jaysus we're only human" I'd love to see a surgeon or a pilot try that defence.

HybridTech

Freelancer wrote:

Metaphor and anaolgy aren't your strong point. Fair enough.

I didn't post that "spurious jpg", merely commented on how funny it is.

Yes it bloody was. You defended O'Dea

Without turning this into a panto, I didn't!

and then went to the trouble of digging out a jpg you claimed supported your pov.

Of course I did. I showed that the people who were complaining about this whole thing had a picture of somebody pointing a weapon at a camera on their web site, but yet felt justified in saying that O'Dea was wrong. That is hypocritical!

Look, thus far you've told me I should run not walk away from this thread, that I have some syndrome or other, and even tried to tell me that metaphors and analogy aren't my strong points. It still isn't going to change my opinion that this whole thing is, dare I say it, a storm in a teacup.

Sparks

HybridTech wrote:

I showed that the people who were complaining about this whole thing had a picture of somebody pointing a weapon at a camera on their web site, but yet felt justified in saying that O'Dea was wrong. That is hypocritical!

1) The firearm in question is a piece of sports equipment, not a weapon.
2) It's not pointed at the camera, but to a point a meter to its left.
3) Both shooters in that photo and the photographer were highly experienced shooters with hundreds of hours on the range (the shooter on the left was the National Champion at the time, the shooter on the right represented Ireland in the Atlanta Olympic Games) and knew precisely what the risk factors were and took precautions and were exceptionally careful taking that photo.

In other words, it wasn't hypocritical, any more than a surgeon advising people not to stab people would be.

Freelancer

HybridTech wrote:

I didn't post that "spurious jpg", merely commented on how funny it is.

Wow. Oh my sides. Oh how they ache. Oh no wait. Indigestion.

Without turning this into a panto, I didn't! Of course I did. I showed that the people who were complaining about this whole thing had a picture of somebody pointing a weapon at a camera on their web site, but yet felt justified in saying that O'Dea was wrong. That is hypocritical!

The people that shot that photo demostrated their safe care and pratice taking a photo. They checked the breach (as can be seen in the photos) theres no evidence in the photos or in O'Dea's defence that any atempt by the person handling the firearm or the photographer (the two most crucial people) in O'Dea's photos that they themselves undertook any chance. Like Sparks said, assuming a firearm is safe is a surefire way of ensuring someone gets shot (oh and btw he points out that theres been no injury on an irish civilian range yet we can't get our regular army near a range without a deafness lawyer)
[/quote]

Look, thus far you've told me I should run not walk away from this thread, that I have some syndrome or other, and even tried to tell me that metaphors and analogy aren't my strong points. It still isn't going to change my opinion that this whole thing is, dare I say it, a storm in a teacup.

Storm in a teapot more Like with your fingers in your ears to avoid anothers point. Sparks et all have the the best case to be made with O'Dea the govt have stated that firearms licencings such as these can't be allowed because of potential behaviour by shootists. But there he is, playing about in a manner that he suggested that the olympic team might engage in, to forbid them with their weapons.

And you don't see that as hyprocritical.

This is leaving aside the inane imagary, that a senior irish politican would be seen waving a firearm in his hands with a **** eating grin days after a serious of gangland murders.