ATH4: Guest host Danger Dave

Bounty Hunter

ATH1 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055176157
ATH2 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055187277
ATH3 - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54765837#post54765837

Around The Horn(ATH) is an american show on ESPN where a number of panelists/experts make arguments an a certain topic. The host awards points for each response depending on how well argued their point is, not neccesarily if he agrees with their point (although that helps) but how well they back up their argument. Obviously the winner is the person with the highest number of points at the end of the show. This format should work quite well here if anyone is interested, afterall there are a number of people here who like to think of themselves as experts on all things wrestling related, here is a chance to prove it.

The first of 5 topics will be posted on friday and you will have two days before round two (so four full days now to decide on participation and enter your first answer). If you need info on the rules check the above linkes to the previous threads, but here is a brief rundown of them:

Guest Host Danger Dave will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within 48hrs (before the next round begins), take care while making your responses however as other contestants can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement once, although you can counter as many different peoples arguements as much as you want (but only once each). if someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them plus someone else might continue to question it in your place.

*You can use the same answer as a previous poster if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

each poster is marked out of 20 each round for a total of five rounds. If you miss a round (it happens) you can still submit an answer to that rounds question however because you missed the deadline in between rounds your late answer will only be marked out of 10.

Former Champs are Vince135792003, Rosie1977 & Charlie Mchugh, will we have a two time champ or will a new contender emerge under the guest hos which I would like to introduce to you all Danger Dave (be nice to him:))

Bounty Hunter

Im not running it this time as I doubt id have enough time atm Danger Dave (*not danget could a Mod change the title please*) offered his services as guest host and I was happy to give him the ok. He asked me to do the first post though so that it wouldent seem like he was hijacking the idea or something. He also asked if i would be competing myself and although im not sure how much time im going to have...

Im in!

so if anyone wants to take on the guy who usually marks you, heres your chance. I dont expect at all to win. I will prob answer each rd like I do any post i.e making up my post as i go and therefore I might have less thought out often essay like answers than some.

Bubs101

I'll go for it again this time

Fozzy

I'm in, should have the time

Vince135792003

I'm out. Cutting heelish promos on 32 5 year olds expends alot of energy.

Fozzy

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I'm out. Cutting heelish promos on 32 5 year olds expends alot of energy.

Telling the kids about how you get to school in a limo, how you've got custom made suits, unlike their uniforms, and kissed all their mothers and made them cry?

Charlie

I reckon i'll give it a lash

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote: »

Telling the kids about how you get to school in a limo, how you've got custom made suits, unlike their uniforms, and kissed all their mothers and made them cry?

I wish. I'm more of a Sid Vicious promo type. And it's as effective in teaching as it is in wrestling! In other words, not very.

Bounty Hunter

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I'm out. Cutting heelish promos on 32 5 year olds expends alot of energy.

same reason i dont think ill have the time to host this time round, except mine are around 10 and all Wrestling fans even the girls its weird.

flahavaj

Fozzy wrote: »

Telling the kids about how you get to school in a limo, how you've got custom made suits, unlike their uniforms, and kissed all their mothers and made them cry?

Post of the week! Woooooo!!!:D

Danger_Dave

Alright People be kind , anyway Guest Host coming in now, hope to do as good as BH. We all know its the same structure so ill just Ask the question.

Round 1 : What would you choose for this years main event for WrestleMania and why ?

SideNote: All brands can be included , so loads of different answers out there. Read first post by Bounty Hunter for rules, Next round will start in 2days

Bubs101

i'll start the ball rolling and say Randy Orton vs. John Cena but before I put my heart and soul into answering this, could I ask for a bit of clarification. CAn the match you pick be going against the number one contenders matches at NWO?

Bounty Hunter

I would choose John Cena vs Randy Orton vs HHH

now I know that this isnt very creative / personalised as it already seems to be a possibility for the RAW main event so why choose this as my pick to main-event Wrestlemaina as apposed to say giving Jeff Hardy the push or let SD's likely main-event Edge vs The Undertaker headline the PPV?

well there are nuerous reasons atleast seven-fold:

1) My proposed match includes the winner of the Royal Rumble. We just had a thread on here about how not including the Rumble winner main-event WM could see the Rumble devalued and although not everyone was in agreement the very existance of the thread shows that some people think this would be the case. Obviously this is something I would and the WWE should avoid doing so imo John Cena (The Rumble winner) has to be involved in.

2) along with being the Rumble winner John Cena is also the biggest draw the WWE has and would be the logical choice to main event the biggest PPV the company has.

3) Randy Ortan is the current Champion and has been for months prior to now. If he was to be removed from the main event it would be extremley harsh IMO. He came in when injuries happened to other big stars and has since really stepped up and had some great matches for example his feud with HBK.

4) HHH is argueably the 2nd biggest draw in the WWE and has a history with both Orton (Evolution) and Cena (previous WM) so if the match was a triple threat then HHH could be easily added to the mix and counted upon to have a good match considering the classic bouts he has had in the past.

5)The Elimination Chamber has been anounced for NWO with the winner to get a shot at the champ at Wrestlemania and Raw's contestants are Umaga, HBK, Y2J, JBL, Jeff Hardy and HHH. so one of these wrestlers are going to be in the match. Y2J & JBL have their own feud going which can and should imo go the whole way to Mainia while Umaga isnt WM main-event level in my opinion so that leaves HHH, HBK and Hardy. Hardy despite still having had his momentum angle still going suffered a clean loss to Ortan at only the last PPV and I think this would damage him and any possible build for him in a WM main-event. so it would be between HHH & HBK Imo both of whom can bring it and are over with the fans and I would give HHH the nod as he has not been in the main event picture really since his return meanwhile HBK has been the man to step into the breach to cover for peoples injuries in the title situation and also as i mentioned in no.5 i would say that argueably HHH is second only to Cena atm as a draw.

6)The reaction this match and combination of superstars could get from the audience. The match inclusdes a Heel (Orton) a Face (Cena) and a Tweener (HHH). Cena is argueably the most divisive champ ever in terms of the reaction he recieves, he is a major face and kids and women love the guy but he also gets big amounts of boos, no matter what the crowd is never quiet during a Cena match. Similarily HHH can be quite a divisive character he's a face but with an FU attitude and in general the crowd go nuts for the guy.

7) Raw is the WWE's flagship program and imo should main-event WM unless SD has a much better match or possible WM moment to finish off WWE's biggest PPV and IMO this year it doesent. The SD main-event imo will be The Undertaker vs Edge which could be a good match, has history and could make for a good feud but the simple fact that Edge didnt win the MITB match at last years mania and his WM streak is over (although yes he wasnt pinned) tarnishes it a little for me as it now cant be streak vs streak. So instead I ( a taker fan) would plump for Cena vs Ortan vs HHH.

also it being a triple threat as apposed to Cena vs Ortan or Ortan vs HHH or Cena vs HHH means it would be a atch we actually havent had before as the other three singles bouts have all been done.


(dont expect answers this long from monday onwards from me )

Danger_Dave

Bubs101 wrote: »

i'll start the ball rolling and say Randy Orton vs. John Cena but before I put my heart and soul into answering this, could I ask for a bit of clarification. CAn the match you pick be going against the number one contenders matches at NWO?

It can go against the NWO number one conteders shot, but you would have to show how you would develop the main event while explaining why the NWO contender lost his shot. Its the WWE change anything at anytime , so why cant we

Machismo Fan

Despite my failings last time, I'll give it a go.

Hardy v Cena

Its the super feud for WWE. Both are currently super over and these two would have a massive collision. Hardy is a WWE veteran by now and he deserves the main event at their biggest show of the year. No matter what by now I'd say we're going to have Cena at WM so why not in a place to put the fastest rising star in there. Yes, I just said hes a veteran but he was never really pushed until his excellent feud with Orton.

This would be a massive draw and all the kiddies love both of them, put them both in a match and not only would be a good match worthy of the WM main event and will certainly will draw. Its also a fresh match for WWE unlike Cena v HHH or Cena v Orton.

Fozzy

I'd go with Orton vs Cena, scrapping their NWO match

Cena's far and away WWE's biggest star so he should be in the biggest match. Orton is the man who "injured" him. There's that back story already in place, as well as Orton being awarded the title which I think WWE should really play up more

They both work well together as seen last year. One of the criticisms of this match is that though, that we've seen it. That's why I wouldn't have the NWO match. I'd have Orton knock Cena out backstage at the PPV and then have Orton act all pleased with himself on Raw, before the WM main event is announced. Again playing up the fact that Orton doesn't deserve the belt and that he injured Cena and went too far

As for the winner of the EC, I'd have them take Rey's place in the title match at NWO

Bubs101

Well seeing as Orton vs. Cena got nabbed while I was awaiting clarification of the question (grrrrrrr) I'll make somewhat of a leftfield choice and go for a fatal four way match between Hardy-HHH-Orton and Cena

How I would make it happen;
I would have Cena beat Orton with at NWO but have Orton invoke his rematch clause and refuse a match before Wrestlemania thus involving those 2. I would solve the elimination chamber by having both Hardy and Hunter being unable to reach the 10 count after Hardy swanton bombs him from the top of the cell thus making it a draw and giving them both a slot at Mania. Would also take the oppurtunity to turn HHH and have him teaming up with Orton to try and take them out before Mania

Why I would make it happen;
The main event in Wrestlemania should be from the main brand, Raw and include the biggest draw, Cena and the biggest heel, Orton. It would have one of the most experienced main eventers there in HHH and a genuine chance of an upset as well as rewarding a superstar with a big match in Hardy. These elements would guarantee a great match and there is a backstory for all of them as mentioned by others earlier,bar HArdy and Cena but I would solve that by teaming them up before the match and having a loyalty angle. Bounty Hunter mentioned the crowd being hot for the three way but Hardy would add a massive "Rey Mysterio" like underdog factor. The crowd would go electric if he got a close 2 count on Cena and it would add a whole new dimension to the proposed 3-way.
All 4 our great in the ring and you would have a great mix of styles. A powerhouse in Hunter, a never-say-die crowd favourite in Cena, a high-flying underdog in Hardy and a oppurtunistic dirty heel in Orton. The roles would all fit in perfectly. Considering the amount of momentum that all 4 of these have going into NWO it would be one of the biggest draws they've had in years.

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

Well seeing as Orton vs. Cena got nabbed while I was awaiting clarification of the question (grrrrrrr) I'll make somewhat of a leftfield choice and go for a fatal four way match between Hardy-HHH-Orton and Cena

Haha, sorry! I didn't read any replies before I posted!

Rjd2

Oh just read this so sorry about this repy..
The Rated R Superstar v The Deadman...more to come after the United v Arsena match!!!

Rjd2

Edge v Taker then..
Undertaker is still absurdly over, Cena may also get a massive pop but a good bit of that consists of boos. Taker on the other hand is totally over he’s the number one face in the company who was screwed three times over the last year by the number one heel in the company Edge. Edge has being a star since he got his push, he got buried by HHH’S politics when he should have headlined Mania and sacrificing his undefeated Mania streak to give the undeserving Kennedy a push was stupid. The build up after Taker wins the chamber has the potential to be amazing, Edge is a god on the mic and its going to be great fun watching Edge sacrifice Vicki, Chavo the Edgeheads in a bit to avoid Taker till Mania,. When Mania comes around everyone is going to want Taker to annihilate Edge and finally with Taker having ripped through the rated r army Edge will have no way to hide. The match itself will be quality, Edge after finally getting his deserved Mania headlining spot will perform above himself, he will cheat, he will infuriate the crowd he will probably even use chairs however Taker will after an a amazing twelve months in the ring where he has carried Smackdown will be rewarded with his long awaited moment in the sun by getting his revenge with an amazing tombstone to get the win. The pop will be absolutely massive when he gets the belt in fact unless Hogan comes back it wont be beaten.
So it summarise why it should headline Mania, it will be an a amazing draw, the anticipation has being building for months and the match itself will be quality.

Danger_Dave

Ill post the scores and the next question in few hours, give few more people a chance to participate .

P.S Man its so hard not to post ! Next Question from the brain of Vince135..

Vince135792003

Danger_Dave wrote: »

Next Question from the brain of Vince135

And what a question it is.

Charlie

I said that I would participate, but i forgot that i'm heading to Newcastle midweek, so not much point.

Best of luck to all involved, but be warned, I will be back to take my title back (insert cold stare)

Danger_Dave

ATH:Round 2
Q : Out of all the woman that have been in wrestling, which one has had the greatest impact and why? (Credit for Question goes to Vince )

Current leader board
1. Bubs 101 (18)
2. Bounty Hunter (17)
3. RjD2 (16)
3. Cactus Col (16)
4. Fozzy (15)
4. Machismo Fan (15)

So Round 1 is over, pity theres only 5 people entered, but people can join late, and unlike Bounty Hunter For Round 1 if you submit the first Round question late, i will mark it on its merit, however late entry's in further rounds will be penalized.

Bubs101- Excellent Idea, clearly focused characters. How the wrestling would take place and how the audience would enjoy the aspects of all the different characters

Machismo Fan- You pick jeff, fair enough, viable since we saw his big push for the royal rumble. However you dont acknowledge how much momentum he's lost since losing to Orton clean and how that would effect his Status for Main event at wrestlemania.

Fozzy- You didnt Clarify who would win th EC and what would happend after they won, do they fight edge at No way out after the EC/ Or at WM ?. You just cut the EC out of the equation even though its a part of the story now for WM.

Ill try and keep notes for top and bottom each round. Comments might not be as long in future rounds

Bubs101

Right, I'll take Lita but I won't be able to post an answer until tommorow.

Bounty Hunter

didnt want to say until the round was over but really like the idea of Bubs's fatal-four way. this could be interesting also with only a small group competing this time.

im going to go with Chyna.... more to come

Bounty Hunter

good question

---
Chyna "The ninth wonder of the world" in my opinion had the greatest impact of all the women who have been in Wrestling.

In 1999, Chyna was the #30 entrant in the Royal Rumble in doing so she become the first ever woman to compete in the Rumble. Chyna was the first women to do a lot of things infact. at No Mercy 1999 in she defeated Jeff Jarrett in his last WWF match and in the process become the first and only woman to ever win the Intercontinental Championship. Not only did Chyna do what no other women has done and become IC champ but she went on infact to be a 3-time Intercontinental champion. She was also the first female WWE star to be used in the copanies cross marketing deal with Playboy when she appeared in the magazine (now a common occurance for Divas) back in 2000, she didnt just appear in the magazine either she was the Covergirl.

She appeared in a number of factions such as DX, The Corporation and the Corporate Ministry and managed/acted as a valet for a huge range of Wrestlers From Kane to Eddie Guerrero. Although she often played the typical female role as the wrestlers girlfriend or Mamacita in Guerrero's case she broke the mold for how Females could be used in such roles and actually occupied the role of Enforcer on more than one occasion includion most noteably with DX.

People legitimatley accepted her competing against men and she showed that women in wrestling didnt have to be confined to wrestling womens matches and the role of eye-candy. Infact she showed that women in wrestling didnt automatically have to be "Divas" (with reference to their looks) and instead could be real competitors. However she also competed in the Womens division where she was dominant. Chyna is one of very few people who left the company as champion as she won her final match for the WWE womens title against Lita which meant the title was left vacan upon her departure.

Charlie

She was also the first female WWE star to be used in the copanies cross marketing deal with Playboy when she appeared in the magazine (now a common occurance for Divas) back in 2000, she didnt just appear in the magazine either she was the Covergirl.

Sorry to be a stickler BH but Sable holds that title.

Bounty Hunter

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Sorry to be a stickler BH but Sable holds that title.

thats what i get for just writing and not researching and preparing it in advance etc im sure if you hadnt pointed that out someone else would have. though you never know i might have got away with it

Cactus Col

Danger_Dave wrote: »

So Round 1 is over, pity theres only 5 people entered, but people can join late, and unlike Bounty Hunter For Round 1 if you submit the first Round question late, i will mark it on its merit, however late entry's in further rounds will be penalized.

Okay, don't know how I missed this on friday, but I'm gonna take advantage and jump in here, if nobody minds.

My answer for round 1 is this (I haven't seen NWO yet but I assume it went as I'm about to describe):

I would have to go for Cena V JBL V Y2J.

How would I have made it happen?

Quite easily, Cena would go over Orton at no way out in a nice drawn out fight. However before the match I'd have had JBL come down to the ring to make a one time return to the commentator's table. As the match progresses JBL tries to distract Cena at every opportunity. But is frustrated by Orton's inability to get the job done. 15 minutes in, after a lot of back and forth action, Cena gets knocked to the outside, Orton goes to follow, but the ref intersedes and argues with orton .... JBL takes his chance, CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL! JBL picks orton up and rolls him back into the ring, and returns to the table. Orton goes for the pin, but no, foot on bottom rope. JBL rages. Up again, shouting at orton from ringside, but while JBL has orton distracted Cena recovers and hits the FU! 1....2.....3! However before he can celebrate his victory JBL is in and hits Cena with the a steel chair. Starts giving him the boots. Jericho appears, runs down the aisle, but JBL has the chair again. Y2J and JBL face off for a moment, Cena gets to his feet behind Bradshaw. As JBL goes to swing the chair at Jericho, Cena grabs it from his hands. y2J goes to superkick a surprised layfield, but jbl moves, and jericho connects with Cena, knocking him for ten. Suddenly the ring is flooded with officials breaking up the brawl.

The elimination chamber starts next, a good healthy war between the 6 combatants. A bloody brawl ends in all 6 men busted open, and several referees lying prone on the outside. In the middle stands JBL victorious, however, it was not him who eliminated y2j, who succumbed to a bit of skullduggery by triple h.

Why I would make this happen:



Here you have the three of the best talkers in the wwe at the moment. Cena is the top babyface, but still draws boos from certain sections of the audience. Y2J draws cheers from every part of the arena, and with the right push is more than capable of getting great responses, he is also one of the most capable wrestlers in the promotion, able to get great matches out of not so great opponents. And JBL, only Edge might be able to equal him in getting heat from crowds, this is a man who could inspire Mother Theresa to spit on his grave. (if he were dead and she alive).

JBL and Jericho have been having a tremendous feud since they returned. Quite possibly the feud of the year, dropping cena in would add a little extra spark to the tinderbox and would set the preparations for mania running at a high gear. All three men are familiar with each other, and with the extra polish that Cena has added to his ring work in the past year, a great match is almost gauranteed.

To add to the great skills of each man there is also a storied history for them. As well as JBL's feud with Jericho, JBL previously feuded with Cena, dropping the belt to him at wrestlemania in 2005. This feud between JBL and Cena played out on smackdown, so while many raw viewers would be aware of the hatred between them, the matchup would still come off as being fresh. And who could forget that it was Cena that caused Jericho to be fired from raw.


I'll have my round 2 up in the afternoon.

Danger_Dave

Cactus your post has been scored and ive edited the scores at the end of round 1 to add you in, Anyone else who wants to come in late has until tomorrow afternoon, when Round 3 starts no more people will have points given for questions on Round 1/2.

Still alot of people to post on this question, Can Fozzy come back ? , Can Rjd2 push up from mid table ? .

P.S A mistake from Bounty Hunter, how rare

Fozzy

I believe that the Fabulous Moolah has had the greatest impact on wrestling, but it has been a negative impact

Back in the '40s and early '50s, the biggest name in women's wrestling was Mildred Burke. Women's matches were treated much like men's matches, there wasn't the sideshow spectacle of it that you see in WWE today. For various reasons that I don't need to go into here, Mildred found herself forced out of the business and Moolah came to hold, and more importantly own, the main women's title in America

As the owner of the women's belt she worked all the major territories and she was able to use her power to control the other women wrestlers. She booked practically all the women wrestlers for shows around the country and she took a cut of their pay. If a woman wrestler didn't like that then they weren't going to get booked. They also had no chance of getting the belt

In the days of Mildred Burke women's wrestling was a draw. She was a talented worker herself and the women getting booked were talented workers. In the days of Moolah women's wrestling became less of a draw and the women getting booked were there because they were willing to work for Moolah, not because they were the most talented

I feel that Moolah had the greatest impact because women's wrestling has never recovered in America to being the sort of draw that it was in the '40s

Cactus Col

I'm going with Trish Stratus.

The womens division in the nineties was a joke. To such a degree that the championship title in wwe was deactivated twice during that decade. The title was reactivated in the late nineties, mainly as a tool to promote Sable. But still, nobody cared about the belt, and it's greatest moments was spent as a prop for the McMahon Helmsly faction, around the waist of Stephanie.

Trish Stratus arrived in wwe in 2000, as a manager. As most divas eventually do, she was forced to compete in ring. And thanks to training from Dave Finlay amongst others, she became very competent.
With Trish, wwe finally had a female wrestler that the company could get behind and push. Beautiful, charasmatic, and a decent wrestler, Trish (along with Lita and Molly Holly) made us care about womens wrestling again, and made us realise that it wasn't all about T & A, that there are women out there who will, and do, work hard. Her popularity levels were huge and higher than many top male wrestlers at the time.

When she retired from the ring, she has left a huge void in her place, one that the wwe have yet to fill.

Bubs101

Sorry about the delay, here goes Lita.

As Cactus Col said, the womens division in the 90's was a joke but I would attribute that to Chyna, what's the point of having her on the belt if she's big enough to take on JJ and Eddie when all her competitors are jokes who enter bikini competitins with paint. That's why Lita had the biggest impact. She was a talented female wrestler who could do the high flying moves that were so popular yet unseen in the womens division. You believed that Lita could beat Chyna fairly because of her technichal abilities. In fact I would trace the improvement of the technichal aspect of women's wrestling back to Lita as the popularity she gained from it made it an aspect that the WWE couldn't ignore anymore. She became the first woman (along with Trish) to headline Raw in what is by miles the most memorable feud in the division, she would often get in the ring with the likes of Edge and Christian, The Dudleys and T&A in the way that no woman like her (e.g. not shaped like Xena) had done before even going as far as challenging Dean Malenko for the Light Heavyweight title and she was a mulitple time champion

She was also arguabley the best female manager of all time. In her first appearance she got more of a reaction than her client, Esse Rios, despite the fact he won a belt on his debut. The Hardy Boyz were so over that they even appeared in Rolling Stone magazine, needless to say, with their manager Lita.She was so popular she went on a 5 year face run before turning heel with Edge to provide not only one of the most memorable feuds between Matt Hardy and Edge and Lita but give the biggest ratings boost a manger has ever given the promotion getting it a 5.2 rating, the highest it had gotten all year, when it was constantly drawing 3s

I feel that Lita had the biggest impact on female wrestling because she revolutionised the technichal aspect while setting new records in the more traditional, managerial position

Rjd2

Right all the choices I wanted are gone so Id have to say Trish for the simple reason despite the fact that she was absurdly beautiful and fitted into every negative cliché of female wrestlers she could genuinely hold her own in the ring. She could play face and heel excellently and her scrwewjob of Y2J was one of the best moments of what many agrees was an awesome Mania, I know the likes f Maria are about know may rival her in beauty but none of them hold a candle to her in the ring and this emphasised by the fact that she had total respect from the crowd. She may have being pretty but my god she was talented.

Danger_Dave

Remember people, you can decrease peoples score, or increase your own by arguing someones post and defending your own. Will be few hours before next question so plenty of time.

P.S Just to let you know Round 5 will be a question which will require a long answer, but its the last round and looking at how the scores in round 2 are shaping up it may well be close. It will also not just include the WWE

Bounty Hunter

Bubs101 wrote: »

Sorry about the delay, here goes Lita.

As Cactus Col said, the womens division in the 90's was a joke but I would attribute that to Chyna, what's the point of having her on the belt if she's big enough to take on JJ and Eddie when all her competitors are jokes who enter bikini competitins with paint.

If I recall currectly Chyna was only ever womens champion once and that was in 2001 (not the 90s) so the existence of such a sorry state of womens division in the WWE during that time could hardley be atrributed to Chyna. However as you say most of the women were "jokes who enter bikini competitions" and Chyna did show that women in wrestling didnt have to fit this "Diva" sterotype.

dont know if that will be taking as countering your arguement or defending my own but felt i had to say it.

Bubs101

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

If I recall currectly Chyna was only ever womens champion once and that was in 2001 (not the 90s) so the existence of such a sorry state of womens division in the WWE during that time could hardley be atrributed to Chyna. However as you say most of the women were "jokes who enter bikini competitions" and Chyna did show that women in wrestling didnt have to fit this "Diva" sterotype.

dont know if that will be taking as countering your arguement or defending my own but felt i had to say it.

I didn't mention the number of title reigns Chyna had. What I was aluding to was the fact that to have a woman's champion who wasn't Chyna at the time was a joke. Having the most dominant diva not challenging competitively for the belt made a mockery of it as if the company was saying it was below her and it took Lita (and to a lesser extent Trish) to give the belt some respect.

I would also object to theyour statement that Chyna did show that women in wrestling didnt have to fit this "Diva" sterotype. Much like Amazing Kong in TNA now, she wasn't treated like the others and any of the extraordinary things that she did couldn't be applied to the other women because she is so physically different.

Danger_Dave

Round 3 Q: In the Wake of No way Out, The Big show has returned , he looks fit, strong and ready to wrestle. Now at the moment he's Feuding with Mayweather. This Storyline will finish at the conclusion of Wrestlemania and he will need to move to a specific brand .Name what brand would you insert him into why ?, who would he feud with and why ?


Round 2 Scores
1. Fozzy (18)
2. Cactus Col (16)
3. Bubs 101 (16)
4. Bounty Hunter (15)
5. RjD2 (15)
6. Machismo Fan (No Score Yet)

Leader Board After Round 2
1. Bubs 101 (34)
2. Fozzy (33)
3. Bounty Hunter (32)
4. Cactus Col (32)
5. RjD2 (31)
6. Machismo Fan (15)


Fozzy : Good answer, I myself when hearing of her induction into the hall of fame and her death few months back, looked up on her to see what all the fuss was about. From Reading a personal problem with her ex husband also affected the way womens wrestling was directed from the 40's onwards, and that fact that she monopilized the belt and prevented anyone challenging, creating a void of any real competition or surprise for fans. Short Answer, but long ones are not always the best. If you had included the part with her Ex and how they fought over the womens wrestling . I would have found it very hard not to give a 20.

Bounty Hunter: Her career in the last period of time with the wwe was weak , partly down to the WWE, but also because of her, Due to the contract negotiations between the two parties at the time of her leaving. There is also an argument that Chyna had a damaging effect on womens wrestling when she was womens champion. She had been pushed to much in mens wrestling , which gave no other women wrestlers credibility to fight her in the division. Which damaged womens bouts on Raw/Smackdown and PPVS as in "ahh we know Chyna will beat (insert female wrestler) unless theres interference" . Even when she fought women in single bouts with no title on the line, it was not credible. Although she had an impact on wrestling. It was a mixed bag of Good and Bad. She broke the mold when wrestling men, but she gave nothing to the womens division.


RjD2:Same as an other Contestants choice but you did elaborate different points. If you had Delved deeper into her heel turns and her managerial skills with T+A , or her feud with the Dudley's which would have made it much different to Cactus Answer, if you just gave even one more paragraph to it, i would have easily scored it higher, the points were there you just different elaborate on them. Short answer are good, however they need some substance.


P.S Im going to Give Machismo Fan 3 more hours to post his response to Round 2 before i declare him late for the round, and have to penalize him. Good luck to everyone in round 3 !

Bubs101

Round 3 Q: In the Wake of No way Out, The Big show has returned , he looks fit, strong and ready to wrestle. Now at the moment he's Feuding with Mayweather. This Storyline will finish at the conclusion of Wrestlemania and he will need to move to a specific brand .Name what brand would you insert him into why ?, who would he feud with and why ?

Raw, it picks itself. If the Big Show were to move to either ECW or Smackdown we would be stuck enduring matches between him, Big Daddy V, Khali, Kane and Mark Henry. I couldn't imagine anything worse.Also, Raw is actually lacking in menacing Giants at the moment and considering how good Show looks at the moment there's nothing to say he would detract from the technichal aspect there.

As to who i would feud him with, I think he could have a great Intercontinental title programme with Jeff while actually restoring some credibility to the title while bringing it back into the spotlight. Since it looks like Jeff has fallen out of the title picture for the time being it's clearly important to keep his momentum up until he re-enters. ATM it looks like he will be in the MITB match or maybe even an Intercontinental programme with Kennedy (what I personally think will happen) but either way, he should impress and come out as hot as before even more-so if he wins the MITB. Big Show will be coming out of the most high profile match so he should have a massive amount of momentum behind him as well.

The feud would fit well. You would have a hot face versus a heel with alot of heat (assuming it stays), the traditional big giant versus tenacious high flyer feud which has worked so well for Show in the past. Show also knows what's good for business and is apparently eager to put others over him (if what Heyman said in the sun regarding Punk and the ECW elimination chamber is true) so he'd have no problem putting Hardy over.

As for how and why they'd feud, here's how I'd do it. Have Hardy win MITB having not defended the IC title in the period between now and Mania. On the first Raw after Mania have Hardy come out, talk about how he's going to use it etc. when Show's music hits. Show claims that Hardy has been avoiding defending his Intercontinental title and challenges him that night for it. Show wins by cheating. Then have a programme to Backlash which would involve Show refusing to let Hardy have a rematch unless he puts his briefcase on the line as well. Big Show gets Shane, who was with him at NWO and is still with him now, to let him pick his match. he picks a three stages of hell match with none of Hardy's specialities. No ladder match, no TLC. Instead it'll be a Cage, hell in a Cell and lumberjack combo. Hardy wins 2-0 cleanly hitting a Swanton of the Cage or something along those lines and comes off hot enough to challenge the champion at the next PPV. Show gets rewarded with the IC title a couple of months down the line

Bounty Hunter

Round 3 Q: In the Wake of No way Out, The Big show has returned , he looks fit, strong and ready to wrestle. Now at the moment he's Feuding with Mayweather. This Storyline will finish at the conclusion of Wrestlemania and he will need to move to a specific brand .Name what brand would you insert him into why ?, who would he feud with and why ?

Having Show face Mayweather is like the big man himself Huge. It like Vince vs Trump will get huge attension from the Media and the fans alike. However I really dont expect Big Show to win at Mania because again just like with Trump WWE wins just by having Mayweather involved in a major storyline building to a bout at WM and a big star with a big ego like Mayweather and an undefeated record albeit in a different sport is bound to want to win in what is likely to be his only WWE match.

Because of this I think it is very important that Big Show next faces an opponent that is both a big name (so as to capitalise on Show still being in the post WM spotlight) and someone who is willing to lose. I think two back to back loses would be terrible for Show on his return and would kill any momentum the big man would have from both that return and despite losing from being in such a big WM match.

Instead I would have BigShow feud with... Batista

and this feud would take place on.... Raw

in recent times Show has spent the majority of time on either Smackdown or ECW where he was champion until he left (well technically Lashley held the title for about 3days before Show left), there are more new feuds for him on Raw and old ones that the WWE's new fans would not remember if they ever say them. Raw is also devoid of a quality Monster heel character atm with Snitsky and Umaga nearest to filling that void. Meanwhile ECW/SD have numerous(Kali, Henry, big daddy V etc..).

How I would do it:
I would have Batista face his friend and Mentor (and obviously play this up) Rick Flair at Wrestlemania and defeat him ending the Nature boys Career. He would shake flairs hands with him though before joining the rest of the roster making a guard of honour along the ramp and on the titantron who clap the legend as he leaves WM and competitive wrestling. Batista is on a huge high coming off a Major Wrestlemania match and still very much so a face in the eyes of the fans. Meanwhile Big Show is enraged having lost in a major WM match and is filling the aformention monster heel position. then on Raw the 2008 WWE Draft would be announce for the following week. On all three shows Big Show is courted as a free agent and someone who can personally choose where he is drafted to. While he is on SD discussing contract possibilites with Teddy Long(he is demanding a bigger contract than anyone on SD to sign up) he has an altercation with Batista who claimes that if he wants to be the champ on SD again that he would have to go through him first.

Then on Raw the big Shock draft of the night is Batista to Raw, his music hits and the crowd go nuts. He starts speaking about how despite the fact that he was sad to see Ric Flairs Career end at WM his belief in himself and confidence is sky high after that defeating Natch. He then goes on to state that this new self-belief will be key not if but when he becomes the World Champion here on Raw.... Big Shows Music hits.... after hearing this Show comes out and anounces that he has just signed a Raw contract and that if Batista wants to be champion on Raw that he would have to go through him first. He is then joined by his manager Shane-O-Mac who announces he has just negotiated with Raw GM William Regal that it will be The Big Show vs Batista.

This would keep both men occupied while out of the title picture for now yet still keep them in a very high profile match. It would be a match that it think Show should win then prehaps have Batista win a rematch.

Bounty Hunter

Bubs101 wrote: »

As to who i would feud him with, I think he could have a great Intercontinental title programme with Jeff while actually restoring some credibility to the title while bringing it back into the spotlight. Since it looks like Jeff has fallen out of the title picture for the time being it's clearly important to keep his momentum up until he re-enters. ATM it looks like he will be in the MITB match or maybe even an Intercontinental programme with Kennedy (what I personally think will happen) but either way, he should impress and come out as hot as before even more-so if he wins the MITB. Big Show will be coming out of the most high profile match so he should have a massive amount of momentum behind him as well.

The feud would fit well. You would have a hot face versus a heel with alot of heat (assuming it stays), the traditional big giant versus tenacious high flyer feud which has worked so well for Show in the past. Show also knows what's good for business and is apparently eager to put others over him (if what Heyman said in the sun regarding Punk and the ECW elimination chamber is true) so he'd have no problem putting Hardy over.

As for how and why they'd feud, here's how I'd do it. Have Hardy win MITB having not defended the IC title in the period between now and Mania. On the first Raw after Mania have Hardy come out, talk about how he's going to use it etc. when Show's music hits. Show claims that Hardy has been avoiding defending his Intercontinental title and challenges him that night for it. Show wins by cheating. Then have a programme to Backlash which would involve Show refusing to let Hardy have a rematch unless he puts his briefcase on the line as well. Big Show gets Shane, who was with him at NWO and is still with him now, to let him pick his match. he picks a three stages of hell match with none of Hardy's specialities. No ladder match, no TLC. Instead it'll be a Cage, hell in a Cell and lumberjack combo. Hardy wins 2-0 cleanly hitting a Swanton of the Cage or something along those lines and comes off hot enough to challenge the champion at the next PPV. Show gets rewarded with the IC title a couple of months down the line

Why i wouldent have Jeff Feud with Show is that i dont believe that Show will win at WM for the reasons ive outlined and 2 back to back defeats upon his return would be very detremental to his own momentum and character especially if done as you suggest with Jeff winning both falls. It would be great for Jeff no doubt but would make Show look weak. Meanwhile if Show beat Hardy it would ruin all the good work the WWE have done building him into a genuine contender.

Bubs101

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Why i wouldent have Jeff Feud with Show is that i dont believe that Show will win at WM for the reasons ive outlined and 2 back to back defeats upon his return would be very detremental to his own momentum and character especially if done as you suggest with Jeff winning both falls. It would be great for Jeff no doubt but would make Show look weak. Meanwhile if Show beat Hardy it would ruin all the good work the WWE have done building him into a genuine contender.

2 rounds in a row insuiating I said something that I didn't say. I NEVER said Show would win, just that he would be coming out hot, which he would be, extremely hot. Second, I don't think Show would stay at the top for long. Whenever he held the belt he dropped it in a month or so. He's not a Main Eventer, upper Midcard at best. He's been pushed there time and time again and failed. Hardy on the other hand is attracting alot of praise for his time there and a victory over Show in his first proper rassling feud back, especially, in just 2 falls would cement his place there. Also, keep in mind that Show wouldn't come out too bad. He'd have won a title and lost to a man who has beaten Hunter, Orton and HBK clean. Hardly the worst thing in the world. It would be good for business in the long term and it would be good to watch which is more than I could say for a Show Batista match, how could you wish that on anyone

Bounty Hunter

i didnt insinuate you suggested Show would win i refered to Show not winning (WM) in my post hense my saying for "the reasons i outlined" nor did i suggest he would be at the top or hold the title. ive already counterd your post though so now I will not say anything further that could be taken as countering your initial post.

Danger_Dave

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

i didnt insinuate you suggested Show would win i refered to Show not winning (WM) in my post hense my saying for "the reasons i outlined" nor did i suggest he would be at the top or hold the title. ive already counterd your post though so now I will not say anything further that could be taken as countering your initial post.

You can only counter him once BH, This is your second time to do it, you have directly posted a comment towards him . Which is outside the rules of ATH

Fozzy

Big Show's going to have a lot of steam coming out of Wrestlemania due to the amount of "plubicity" (™Mayweather) he'll be getting. They could stick him on Raw, but with the amount of top stars they've got now I think that he'd get lost in the shuffle, or someone else would. Realistically, there's six or seven credible title holders on Raw (Cena, Orton, Jericho, HHH, HBK, Jeff, maybe JBL). On Smackdown though, there's only four (Edge, Taker, Batista, Rey), and one of them is injured now. Big Show said that he's coming back to be a champion, so I'd have him go for the Smackdown title

I don't see ECW as a good destination for him as it really is treated as an afterthought by WWE. Plus if he were on Smackdown he could just show up there if needed

Ideally that would mean that either Undertaker wins the title or Edge retains and a triple threat is set up, as it looks like they're going with Big Show as a heel. If I were in charge I would have Undertaker win and have a rematch on Smackdown. This is when Big Show would come down and destroy Undertaker, setting up a feud between the two

The reason I would go with this feud, apart from just continuing on what Big Show said his intentions were, is that Big Show and Undertaker work well together. People have praised Taker for bringing out the best in some big men over the last couple of years and the good thing here is that Big Show is actually a very talented big guy

A win over Big Show in his first title defence would be a great way to kick off Taker's title run. They could have a very good match and with the weight loss by Big Show it could mean that Undertaker could hit the tombstone, which would send the fans crazy

The handy thing about having him on Smackdown too is that when Rey's healthy again he'll be there for him to feud with

Bounty Hunter

Danger_Dave wrote: »

You can only counter him once BH, This is your second time to do it, you have directly posted a comment towards him . Which is outside the rules of ATH

youd think id know better:o

Cactus Col

Round 3 Q: In the Wake of No way Out, The Big show has returned , he looks fit, strong and ready to wrestle. Now at the moment he's Feuding with Mayweather. This Storyline will finish at the conclusion of Wrestlemania and he will need to move to a specific brand .Name what brand would you insert him into why ?, who would he feud with and why ?

The Big Show needs to go to ECW.

Why does he need to go there?
The same reason he was put there originally. The same reasons Kurt Angle, RVD, and Chris Benoit were put into ECW. The brand needs at least one legitimate main eventer. ECW has done a great job in building CM Punk as it's top face, it would be fair to say that CM Punk is the face of ECW. Unfortunately heels on ecw have faired very badly, with any challenger to CM Punk falling short to such a degree that Chavo Geurrero had to be brought in from smackdown
for Punk to have credible opposition. Chavo Geurrero, who despite doing well in his current role, would best be described as having a lacklustre wwe career.

With a legitemate top heel to face ECW's top face, the ECW title might actually start to mean something.

Who would he feud with?
Well as previously mentioned, ECW's top face, CM Punk. Punk will win at mania, causing a slight injury to Chavo. Show would debut on ECW by squashing and destroying Colin Delaney, and then announcing he wants to challenge for the ECW championship. Seeking revenge for his protege's squash Tommy Dreamer would want to fight show. So at the next ppv we get a 3 way dance extreme rules match for the ECW title. Show wins after Chavo causes an interference.

So Show will now feud with Tommy Dreamer for the title, while Chavo keeps CM Punk busy. Show will go on a fairly dominant run as ECW champion, having short feuds with tommy dreamer, Kane, and balls Mahoney. While CM Punk on the other hand feuds with Chavo, and Shelton Benjamin. Come Summerslam Punk will be back in the title hunt, and a series of fights with Big Show will happen, starting at summerslam and ending at around Cyber Sunday (possibly no mercy). Big Show will at first dominate the feud, however, Punk will rebound and eventually win back the title. Clearly establishing Punk as a Main Eventer on a par with those of Smackdown and Raw.

By association show can help to build new heels for punk to face, and slowly start putting over ecw's faces as well. Giving the brand a much healthier balance.

Cactus Col

Bubbs: I don't see why it would be a good idea to kill off Big Show's momentum straight away with a loss so quickly. Especially if it's a match with Jeff Hardy. This would effectively kill off Big Show's main event status.

Fozzy: Same thing with Bubbs idea I think you're having big show far too quickly. This is a multi time World Champion, he is returning to wwe hot. He should not have his momentum killed straight away with a loss. Quite the opposite, he should be given several big wins. Big Show would then just become one of the many monsters littering the ring around the undertaker.

Bounty Hunter: My problem with your scenario is that Raw is just too top heavy to support Big Show for long. With both John Cena and Triple H, a third main event face like Batista would get lost in the mix.

Fozzy

Cactus Col wrote: »

Fozzy: Same thing with Bubbs idea I think you're having big show far too quickly. This is a multi time World Champion, he is returning to wwe hot. He should not have his momentum killed straight away with a loss. Quite the opposite, he should be given several big wins. Big Show would then just become one of the many monsters littering the ring around the undertaker.

It's the Big Show, I don't think that a loss to the Undertaker for the title is going to harm him a whole lot. It won't be straight away either, Backlash will be ten weeks after his return. He's going to be built up as a monster before Wrestlemania and again after Wrestlemania

I think that putting him on ECW would go a lot further in killing his momentum. ECW has been treated in a way where the fans are conditioned not to care about it. It gets a quarter of the audience of the other two shows. Plus, their main problem is a lack of faces, not heels. Punk is the only credible face title holder there. The fans don't buy Tommy Dreamer as a title challenger. Stevie Richards might get a title push soon but apart from that there's no faces. Sticking Big Show in there as a heel will only hurt the potential of guys like Elijah Burke and Shelton Benjamin who deserve a run with the ECW title

Cactus Col

Fozzy wrote: »

I think that putting him on ECW would go a lot further in killing his momentum. ECW has been treated in a way where the fans are conditioned not to care about it. It gets a quarter of the audience of the other two shows. Plus, their main problem is a lack of faces, not heels. Punk is the only credible face title holder there. The fans don't buy Tommy Dreamer as a title challenger. Stevie Richards might get a title push soon but apart from that there's no faces. Sticking Big Show in there as a heel will only hurt the potential of guys like Elijah Burke and Shelton Benjamin who deserve a run with the ECW title

You are right, ECW has been treated badly, but that does not mean it will be in future. I'm basing my arguement on the assumption that WWE will do try its best for all its brand.

Punk has already defeated burke a load of times in defence or his title. The same with Miz and Morrison. I agree that the faces on ecw haven't fared much better.

The notion that dreamer could go straight into a title feud isn't really that far fetched. He is an ECW original, a former ECW champion. But the point of using him isn't to make him a main eventer, but to keep Big Show occupied as the rest of the ECW roster consolodates, and grows stronger. Both Face and Heel.