Suggestion for gear recommendation threads.

sei046

I know what your saying. I just dont see the massive crime tbh. Like its literally only a scroll down. Im not saying its right, but its not really THAT wrong!

sei046

Doc I still think your missing the point. That was never the point I was trying to make. This might sound really harsh and I dont mean to offend but anyone who is intimidated by words on screen should turn off their computer, go outside and get a bit of life experience so their skin thickens a little. I know its harsh but Like I said I am one of the lowenders and I dont give a toss what people say! What are they going to do?

Doctor J

sei046 wrote: »

I know what your saying. I just dont see the massive crime tbh. Like its literally only a scroll down. Im not saying its right, but its not really THAT wrong!

Nobody is saying it's THAT wrong. As Fitz's thread title says: "Suggestion"

All that's being suggested is that posters bear in mind what the OP is asking, rather than just go "This stuff is way better than the stuff you can afford"

It's not THAT unreasonable

Doctor J

sei046 wrote: »

Doc I still think your missing the point. That was never the point I was trying to make. This might sound really harsh and I dont mean to offend but anyone who is intimidated by words on screen should turn off their computer, go outside and get a bit of life experience so their skin thickens a little. I know its harsh but Like I said I am one of the lowenders and I dont give a toss what people say! What are they going to do?

You're blowing it out of proportion.

Look, all that was suggested is people bear in mind what someone is asking. If someone asks a question and doesn't really get answered, why would they post again?

It's not a big deal.

sei046

Doctor J wrote: »

It's not a big deal.

Deal!

Doctor J

Agreed!

There are a lot of very knowledgable guys here, which is great, and it's fantastic to see discussions on some of the high end gear, but just remember the little guy from time to time

PaulBrewer

Doctor J wrote: »

As I've said more than once, it's great that there is knowledge of high end gear here, but if someone asks a question then answers should be somewhat relevant to it, no?

I agree totally!

However using the monitor thread as a reference template for the argument.

In my Professional Opinion after 25+ years of working with all sorts of Bad Shizzit as well as Good Shizit what I said in reference to monitors is what I absolutely believe to be true.
I think that Poster would be wasting his money. I'm sorry to thread on toes saying so but it is a big bad world and that sometimes happens. Anything that saves a guy wasting money is GOOD advice in my book.

I always think save your money and buy good stuff is the way to go - every time. I was the home guy who was constantly frustrated about my recordings as was sold the lie by the Industry that great recordings are cheap to make. The very same industry I'm apart of and trying to change from within.

Perhaps the core problem is that people don't want to hear the answer?

It's a bit like your mates telling you, as you drink 7 nights a week, you're drinking to much! Your view seems to be 'But it's my birthday this weekend!'

I'll give you and anyone else my honest answer every time.

Maybe people aren't posting about cheapo stuff because really, it's not that good?

Doctor J

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Maybe people aren't posting about cheapo stuff because really, it's not that good?

Maybe because they don't want to recommend something when they've found a step up from their previous setup when there are some clearly experienced people telling everyone it's a pile of ****e?

It's all relative.

Maybe comepared to a lot of pro setups a €200 set of monitors isn't worth the trouble, but then again, how good is yer man's hi-fi? Nobody ever asked. Would a set of M1 MkII's be a step up for him? Quite probably, they were a huge revelation for me, but you'd never guess it with all the talk of Genelecs, Dynaudio, etc.

Everyone has to start somewhere and maybe it's a good thing people take incremental steps up the ladder and learn for themselves. Not everyone can afford great gear, not everyone wants to buy great gear and answers should keep a bit of perspective.

Anyway, you get my point

sei046

Well gear being good is definitely relative. And I dont think the reason they dont post about it is because it is not good(what?!). And can I just say again I AM A LOWENDER!??!

Doctor J

I think there's quite a bit of that. Audio production is a huge topic, if you're on the outside looking in there is so much to learn. It can be very intimidating for people to come in and ask a question, or to say "These are good" if there are experienced people saying that things twice as expensive are ****e. Maybe to the person who's just moved on from from their stereo system a low end set of monitors are amazing, but how can they argue against a set which costs over a grand?

For example, on the instruments forum, if someone asks about a first guitar, have you ever seen it suggested to keep their money until they can buy a PRS?

All I'm saying is to keep a bit of perspective, there are all levels here and if someone is starting off just to bear it in mind with responses. There is "good gear for €200" and there is "good gear", you know what I mean?

fitz

The weak link in my recording setup is my interface, and it's convertors. I get pretty good results for now, so I'm not gonna upgrade until I can replace it with something like an Apogee Ensemble. But I've made that choice.

It's equally valid for someone to decide that he just wants to spend €200 on monitors cause he needs a set of monitors. It's not helpful, or encouraging, to that guy to say "don't bother until you can spend €1000. Do you think someone starting off, looking at €200 monitors is likely to have the ears to benefit from €1000 monitors anyway?

All I'm suggesting is that the negativity be left out of it.
I think we can all accept that people are going to start out on cheap gear.
Nobodies going to jump straight in buying an SSL console and Dynaudio monitors.
There's a middle ground here that is not a waste of money for people who are developing their knowledge, skillz and most importantly their ears. If someone is asking for advice because that's the stage their at, then what's the point in advising them to go for something which is wasted on them.

It's like giving a Custom Shop Les Paul to someone playing guitar for 2 months...

fitz

Doctor J wrote: »

For example, on the instruments forum, if someone asks about a first guitar, have you ever seen it suggested to keep their money until they can buy a PRS?

Ok, we're now entering the Analogy Twilight Zone.
I'm getting a little creeped out...

cornbb

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I agree totally!

However using the monitor thread as a reference template for the argument.

In my Professional Opinion after 25+ years of working with all sorts of Bad Shizzit as well as Good Shizit what I said in reference to monitors is what I absolutely believe to be true.
I think that Poster would be wasting his money. I'm sorry to thread on toes saying so but it is a big bad world and that sometimes happens. Anything that saves a guy wasting money is GOOD advice in my book.

I always think save your money and buy good stuff is the way to go - every time. I was the home guy who was constantly frustrated about my recordings as was sold the lie by the Industry that great recordings are cheap to make. The very same industry I'm apart of and trying to change from within.

Perhaps the core problem is that people don't want to hear the answer?

It's a bit like your mates telling you, as you drink 7 nights a week, you're drinking to much! Your view seems to be 'But it's my birthday this weekend!'

I'll give you and anyone else my honest answer every time.

Maybe people aren't posting about cheapo stuff because really, it's not that good?

I think many of us have hugely different priorities when it comes to interpreting "Music Production". Paul, I have respect for your professional expertise. I also recognise the value of high-end gear when it comes to producing a professional, polished mix, and I know that using great gear can advance someone's engineering/mixing skills.

But for a lot of users on the forum, "Music Production" is about cranking out tunes - mixing and post production is only an element of that. If composition (as opposed to pro or prosumer mixing) is someone's passion, and they are making/mixing music in their bedroom for the love of it, then frankly the difference between a €200 pair of monitors and a €2,000 pair of monitors is far more negligible than some people would imagine. Especially if the price difference could be spent more effectively elsewhere (e.g. on instruments).

An expensive pair of monitors can improve a mix and they can improve someone's ability to mix well, but they do not help the creative process one iota. I believe that time/money spent on working on creative and innovative composition techniques and tools can be far more valuable than buying high-end gear, for a lot of budding musicians/producers.

As for threads being derailed with this discussion, I guess it might get tiring if its happening every week or something. Generally I see nothing wrong with it, the OP always has the option of asking people to keep things on-topic. In general, if someone asks "what is the best bit of kit I could get for €x?" then that particular question should be answered, rather than the familiar mantra of "save your cash for x".

teamdresch

We seem to be forgetting that yer man's question WAS answered satisfactorily, and he was given several alternatives in, or close to, his price range.
The discussion then moved on, as discussions are wont to do.

None of the big audio forums are moderated in anything like the way that's being suggested here. And they get by just fine.
Just let the forum members do their thing (within reason).
You'll find that the fewer barriers there are to discussion, the more discourse you get.

Doctor J

fitz wrote: »

Ok, we're now entering the Analogy Twilight Zone.
I'm getting a little creeped out...

Get out of my skull!!! :pac:

Neurojazz

cornbb wrote: »

An expensive pair of monitors can improve a mix and they can improve someone's ability to mix well, but they do not help the creative process one iota.

hehe, beg to differ there - nice speakers can sometimes aid creativity - i spent a few years at the hands on most sub 200 quid mark speakers and a decent set really helped fire me off into new material... That's just my take of course, i like a little warmth to help things keep me interested while i mix (knowing to keep an eye on the meters for a shortcoming on the lower range!)

PaulBrewer

Doctor J wrote: »

Anyway, you get my point

Ja! Keep on postin' Brother!

sei046

I agree with dresch

jtsuited

funny thread. 100% agree with OP.
I would hate to be someone who wants to knock out a few breakbeat tunes in my bedroom and come to this forum where I'm going to be told (ad nauseum) that the expensive posh stuff is the best blah blah feckin blah.

And asking what's the cheapest soundcard i can get for under 100 euro is a hell of a lot more relevant than the new SSL product coming out to the term Music Production (for the vast majority of readers and posters on Boards).

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

that the expensive posh stuff is the best

But it is!

PaulBrewer

teamdresch wrote: »

We seem to be forgetting that yer man's question WAS answered satisfactorily, and he was given several alternatives in, or close to, his price range.
The discussion then moved on, as discussions are wont to do.

None of the big audio forums are moderated in anything like the way that's being suggested here. And they get by just fine.
Just let the forum members do their thing (within reason).
You'll find that the fewer barriers there are to discussion, the more discourse you get.

Agreed!

"Just let the forum members do their thing (within reason)"

I was thinking of posting a few Topless pics of myself if that's ok?:eek:

Neurojazz

wasn't 'The Joshua Tree' mixdown done through a crappy builders stereo or somthing like that? (to keep it mixed for end consumers equipment)

I remember also speaking to a guy called Ross Cullem / Cullam? - an engineer that got paid about 3k an hour hired in to work on major projects in tears for fears (now van morrisons) studio basically had basic kit himself and produce excellent results with lower budget equipment using his black belt knowledge and dog-like ears.

Personally, because i make mostly electronic material these days that i concentrate on 'Source' and make sure my samples are as good as i can get them so that the end result needs less fixing!

I will throw a thread out when my next budget comes out shortly to see what the thread ends up going into. My bet is something about how to care about goldfish probably.

seannash

sei046 wrote: »

Doc I still think your missing the point. That was never the point I was trying to make. This might sound really harsh and I dont mean to offend but anyone who is intimidated by words on screen should turn off their computer, go outside and get a bit of life experience so their skin thickens a little. I know its harsh but Like I said I am one of the lowenders and I dont give a toss what people say! What are they going to do?

i do agree with this,how do people get intimidated by whats written by someone they dont know.
ive got feck all experience and felt no intimidation when posting here.
but i do see both sides of the argument on this one

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

i do agree with this,how do people get intimidated by whats written by someone they dont know.
ive got feck all experience and felt no intimidation when posting here.
but i do see both sides of the argument on this one

Good Man Sean!

seannash

you lot are pussy cats

sei046

I know! We're all friends! Take all opinions and dont let things get TOO off topic.

sei046

and how can gear be posh?

frobisher

I always feel that the time to make changes to how the forum operates will always be self evident. I also think that the OP's suggestion would be very hard to put into practice. If things really degrade into a willy measuring contest on every gear recommendation thread then maybe it would be time for some of sort of change but I personally don't think that time is now.