yorkies

bigpinkelephant

~Thalia~ wrote: »

I should imagine that is because your question is a moot one. Of course you wouldn't say that to someone who was pregnant.

No, but it is alright to say it to someone who wants a dog?

If Kerrygold works with animals then I hope he/she only deals with animals and not people because if I went to a pound or shelter looking for a dog and was greeted with an attitude like that then I would be only too happy to bring my donation elsewhere, and I think a lot of people would feel the same.

Not only is there outright snobbery towards people breeding purebreds, and buying purebreds, there is also snobbery towards crossbreeds. It is none of his/her business if my aunt wanted to breed her dogs. The dogs had 4 puppies, my aunt kept one and gave her sisters and mother a puppy each, as they all loved the parent dogs and wanted a puppy they knew had had a good start in life. Particularly as her sisters had small children, they wanted a puppy they knew had come from a good place.
Our cat had kittens when I was small and we didn't have any trouble getting them homes as all our neighbours knew how well looked after they were. Those homes were permanent and those kittens are now very happy old ladies and gentlemen.

Also, my grandfather kept border collies and -shock horror- he BRED them!!!
They were two unrelated working sheepdogs and had a great reputation in the area, they had 9 puppies and all went to good homes as working sheepdogs. I suppose this makes my grandfather nothing more than a dog dealer out to make money, even though his puppies were sold purely by word of mouth :rolleyes:

I have pulled kittens out of ditches, spent my own money on getting stray cats neutered, have had more scratches on my hands than I have known what to do with, but at the end of the day my cat had kittens once so I am a scumbag. I'd better go find a stake to get burned on.

Back on topic- Who else likes Yorkies? I think they are the absolute cutest when their hair is pretty long and tied up in a bow, soooo cute!!! I remember one that won Crufts one year, fabulous little dog it was.

kerrysgold

Basically, at least 20,000 or so dogs are pts every year in this country because of people letting their dogs breed. only god knows how many feral cats there are and how many kittens are drowned or worse every year because of "accidental" litters. (even though there is no such thing when it is the owners responsibility to neuter/spay the animal)

you may think you're dog or cat having a few pups/kittens and them all getting good homes is no big deal, but what if say, 100 other people have the same idea? that's approx. 600 pups/kittens being added to the population.

shinners007

Basically, at least 20,000 or so dogs are pts every year in this country because of people letting their dogs breed. only god knows how many feral cats there are and how many kittens are drowned or worse every year because of "accidental" litters. (even though there is no such thing when it is the owners responsibility to neuter/spay the animal)

you may think you're dog or cat having a few pups/kittens and them all getting good homes is no big deal, but what if say, 100 other people have the same idea? that's approx. 600 pups/kittens being added to the population

And how exactly is that response on topic in relation to the op's first post kerrysgold. You still had to come back and spoil the thead once again, it is so irritating. People on here arent stupid,(not implying you said they were, a figure of speech) people are aware that a large number of dogs are PTS. I dont agree with accidental breeding but i dont have a problem with the controlled breeding of healthy tested animals.
When will you ever just accept the fact that people have a choice to choose a method of getting a pet in whatever way they want and suits them best, and that not all breeders are unreputable. And what you really need to realise is that coming on here assuming that everyone who's pet has had pups/kittens or who breed's; is unreputable/a backyard breeder isnt going to gain you anything and it wont reduce any numbers in rescues/pounds either. In fact your associating negativity with such places as you work in that area and personally just from reading your posts, if i knew you were at a particular rescue i would avoid it due to your condesending judgemental attitude and your off topic responses.
Your not superwoman, plenty of people in this country work in rescue centres and animal welfare, reputable breeders contribute to animal welfare by testing animals prior to breeding, controlloing breeding, etc... so come down off your high horse. Everyone else's opinion is as valid as yours

bigpinkelephant

kerrysgold wrote: »

may think you're dog or cat having a few pups/kittens and them all getting good homes is no big deal, but what if say, 100 other people have the same idea? that's approx. 600 pups/kittens being added to the population.

How has someone, by breeding their dog or cat, added to the overpopulation when they homed every puppy or kitten they bred?
I have to say that your responses give them impression of a child who has just read books about animals and has little experience of actually looking after them. You have all your statistics but seem compleely oblivious to the feelings associated with owning an animal. Perhaps you did a school project on dogs or something?
The OP sees her dogs as living creatures that she loves, you see them as walking Breed Standards. Heaven help us all, she mentioned the word "miniature", let's go and insult half the people on the thread. The OP cannot discuss her dogs as she wanted to because in your mind, her dogs have had puppies so this must mean she is nothing but a backyard dog dealer who therefore deserves to be insulted and patronised.

I am still eagerly awaiting an answer to the question I have already asked you a number of times. As you are aware there are millions of orphan children around the world, particularly because of AIDS.
Do you go around asking pregnant women why can't they adopt a child instead, and if they and the baby's father have been health tested?

bigpinkelephant

kerrysgold wrote: »

no, I'm not an expert on the breed by any means but luckily I can read the odd dog breed book here and there and know my breed categories.

And it appears that reading is all you do. Show me dogs of the same breed and I will show you my measuring tape that will prove they come in different sizes. They are not made in a factory.

kerrysgold wrote: »

Basically, if you're dogs aren't show standard, top quality, health tested Yorkies, then you shouldn't be breeding them.

Says who?
Show standard will rarely mean top quality if the dog's health is compromised for the sake of the breed standard/Bible.

My grandfather's Border collies were sheepdog trial champions. Herding sheep is what Border Collies were bred for. However the female had one ear more erect that the other.

I know, I know, he is nothing more than a scumbag breeding dogs that don't fit the holy words of the breed standard... He should never have bred them, just gone to a breeder and bought a nice show quality puppy that might never have seen a sheep in its life- or even better, gone to a rescue and rescued a dog- it wouldn't matter that it might not be a herding breed from a line of great sheepdogs, or that it might have been handed in for being afraid of or aggressive to sheep- as long as he didn't breed his own dogs it seems that is all that matters..

mousey2

who are you to judge me girl and tell me what to do as i said i have healthy puppys and yorkies never sick and all were tested and have no problems so go find something new to groan at who do u think you are ,,and i keep in touch with people who have baught puppys from me . so stop judging me ok ,,,,,,

mousey2

kerrysgold wrote: »

Definition of Backyard breeder:
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html

go find some back yard breeders and leave me out of ur dum ideas

bigpinkelephant

Mousey please post some more photos of your dogs, the one sitting in the cup was just too cute.

I love the way they are so small but try telling them that, they have huge personalities! :pac:

mousey2

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

Mousey please post some more photos of your dogs, the one sitting in the cup was just too cute.

I love the way they are so small but try telling them that, they have huge personalities! :pac:

thank you im so p..t off with wat some people say i will put some more pics up yes

mousey2

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

Mousey please post some more photos of your dogs, the one sitting in the cup was just too cute.

I love the way they are so small but try telling them that, they have huge personalities! :pac:

they all have there own personality

mousey2

Attachment not found.

mousey2

2008_0329minnyyorkies0022.JPG

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ATTACH]58746[/ATTACH]
mouse, missy ,bubba and the little 1s and then theres tiny king...
no dought there will be something to be said somewhere ........

kerrysgold

I dont agree with accidental breeding but i dont have a problem with the controlled breeding of healthy tested animals.

what about the people who let their pets breed so the children can see it? and the ones who just want some cute puppies? and the one who breed their dog so they can see what the pups are like? or the ones that have a "lovely dog" and want some pups from her? that's all "controlled" breeding!

you're yorkies are adorable but please don't breed them just for the sake of it. the only thing that is good is that they are a relatively un-dumped breed, it'd be worse if they were something like labs/gsds/rotties/staffies/collies which are two a penny in this country at the moment. (and still being bred in huge numbers)

bigpinkelephant

kerrysgold wrote: »

what about the people who let their pets breed so the children can see it? and the ones who just want some cute puppies? and the one who breed their dog so they can see what the pups are like? or the ones that have a "lovely dog" and want some pups from her? that's all "controlled" breeding!

Hang on one second, I thought it was "accidental" breeding you have a problem with? Now it seems to be breeding of any sort.

kerrysgold wrote: »

you're yorkies are adorable but please don't breed them just for the sake of it. the only thing that is good is that they are a relatively un-dumped breed,

I can see plenty of things that are good about those clearly well-loved dogs and if the OP breeds them, looks after them and finds them good homes then it is none of your business.

It seems nobody can do anything right in your eyes and nobody is as fantastic as you either.

mousey2

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

Hang on one second, I thought it was "accidental" breeding you have a problem with? Now it seems to be breeding of any sort.



I can see plenty of things that are good about those clearly well-loved dogs and if the OP breeds them, looks after them and finds them good homes then it is none of your business.

It seems nobody can do anything right in your eyes and nobody is as fantastic as you either.

i dont breed for any of those reasons i dont allow my dogs to breed every year as it would not be good for my ladys and missy is nearly 2 and never had a a litter yet she is mouses daughter and i lve my dogs dearly

kerrysgold

breeding of any sort except of quality, health tested, preferably show standard dogs, is just adding to the problem of overpopulation.

bigpinkelephant

kerrysgold wrote: »

breeding of any sort except of quality, health tested, preferably show standard dogs, is just adding to the problem of overpopulation.

Says who?

I must inform the Irish Guide dogs of this. They often crossbreed Labrador x Golden Retriever, also they breed Labradoodles. I am sure you think they are a shower of dirty dog dealers so and not fit to breed any dogs.

peasant

kerrysgold wrote: »

breeding of any sort except of quality, health tested, preferably show standard dogs, is just adding to the problem of overpopulation.

fixed that for you

mousey2

u no it all kerry dont you u just keep going ,,,,,,,,

shinners007

what about the people who let their pets breed so the children can see it? and the ones who just want some cute puppies? and the one who breed their dog so they can see what the pups are like? or the ones that have a "lovely dog" and want some pups from her? that's all "controlled" breeding!

What a statement, ive personally never came across any one who breeds so that their children can see it, and if that were the case then it wouldnt be classed as accidential but as just plain stupidity. Controlled breeding in my opinion is selectively breeding unrelated healthy dogs that have been adequately tested to ensure their suitability to breeding. You keep bringing the fact up that dogs should be breed when their show quality and up to breed standard find me one breed standard that states the dog should be tested prior to breeding/showing for health defects? Yet you maintain it is ok to breed them jsut because there of show standard get real for gods sake, far more show material dogs come with health problems and defects due to inbreeding to try ascertain a certain look/standard within a breed therefore they are far more likely to be unhealthy if not tested prior to breeding. May be you should done some research on what ive said you may be surprised taht your notion of show dogs isnt exactly what you have been so pointly stating thus far.

breeding of any sort except of quality, health tested, preferably show standard dogs, is just adding to the problem of overpopulation.

fixed that for you

totally agree with you there, so let all thos reputable breeder who strive to improve a breed by adequate testing and health checks all just stop breeding pedigree's and let the breed become just a memory... let all those people who dont bother to spay/neuter their pets continue to roam the streets and create cross breeds and mongrels that will also add to the over population. And lets all just agree with kerrysgold cos SHE is the voice of all pets who knows all and is never wrong ha ha ha:rolleyes::rolleyes:

shinners007

Btw mousey2 i just love the pics please keep them coming!

their about the only good things in this thread since it was spoiled by......:pac::pac::pac::pac:

The pics remind me of my little yorkie Lilo!! So cute.:D

bigpinkelephant

shinners007 wrote: »

May be you should done some research on what ive said you may be surprised taht your notion of show dogs isnt exactly what you have been so pointly stating thus far.

And lets all just agree with kerrysgold cos SHE is the voice of all pets who knows all and is never wrong ha ha ha:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm telling you, I think she did some sort of school project in Transition Year or something and is edumacating us all!!!

So if a dog is not purebred and show standard then it is not worth being born.... yet she then tells us to go to rescues where at least 70% of the dogs will be crossbreeds?

I have no problem with rescues but I don't agree with this "show standard" rubbish. My grandad wasn't worried about the shape of his sheepdogs' elbows or the exact length in mm of their legs, when they were winning sheepdog trials.

bigpinkelephant

mousey2 wrote: »

2008_0329minnyyorkies0022.JPG

2008_0329minnyyorkies0015.JPG

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ATTACH]58746[/ATTACH]
mouse, missy ,bubba and the little 1s and then theres tiny king...
no dought there will be something to be said somewhere ........

If I ever decide to get a Yorkie I know who to go to

mousey2

shinners007 wrote: »

What a statement, ive personally never came across any one who breeds so that their children can see it, and if that were the case then it wouldnt be classed as accidential but as just plain stupidity. Controlled breeding in my opinion is selectively breeding unrelated healthy dogs that have been adequately tested to ensure their suitability to breeding. You keep bringing the fact up that dogs should be breed when their show quality and up to breed standard find me one breed standard that states the dog should be tested prior to breeding/showing for health defects? Yet you maintain it is ok to breed them jsut because there of show standard get real for gods sake, far more show material dogs come with health problems and defects due to inbreeding to try ascertain a certain look/standard within a breed therefore they are far more likely to be unhealthy if not tested prior to breeding. May be you should done some research on what ive said you may be surprised taht your notion of show dogs isnt exactly what you have been so pointly stating thus far.




totally agree with you there, so let all thos reputable breeder who strive to improve a breed by adequate testing and health checks all just stop breeding pedigree's and let the breed become just a memory... let all those people who dont bother to spay/neuter their pets continue to roam the streets and create cross breeds and mongrels that will also add to the over population. And lets all just agree with kerrysgold cos SHE is the voice of all pets who knows all and is never wrong ha ha ha:rolleyes::rolleyes:

my guess is yeas wudn no a cross bred if t jumpd up and bit yeas in de ass go somewere else and play

peasant

to bring this thread back a bit closer to topic, here are a few quotes:

Teacup/tiny toy
The terms "teacup" ("tea cup") and "tiny toy" are not used officially by any kennel club, but the increasing frequency of their use by laypersons has led some to believe that the terms are official. Since the terms are unofficial, there is no accepted standard of their definition, but they are widely understood as describing particularly small adult toy dogs, usually smaller than the breed standard indicates.

Some breeders have expressed concerns that the terms are used by unscrupulous breeders to fool purchasers into paying inflated prices for dogs that may be unhealthy or need special care due to their extremely small size.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_dog

Some of the problems that may be encountered are both genetic and congenital in these tiny babies and the list is a long one.

The risk of open fontanels (soft spot from the cranial bone not forming), portosystemic shunts (PSS- abnormal vessel that allows blood to bypass the liver. As a result the blood is not cleansed by one of the bodies filters: the liver.), hypoglycemia, cardiac problems, collapsing trachea, luxating patellas, Leggs Calves Perthes disease, seizures, hydroencephaly, blindness and digestive problems can be increased in these tiny babies.

Problems such as respiratory problems can remain or worsen throughout their lives. These babies frequently are so fragile that they do not live more than a few years. There have been several tiny Yorkies as adults who still had open fontanels and their owners had to carry nourishment with them all the time. Their vets have felt it unsafe to give a full dose of vaccine so the puppies had to get several injections to be on the safe side.

The sad thruth about "teacup dogs" http://www.barkrescue.net/teacup.htm

~Health risks a teacup faces...

Exceptionally tiny individuals face a number of health risks based on their size alone.

Fragility results in easily broken bones, especially legs, when they jump off a piece of
furniture or a lap. There have been cases of bones simply shattering on impact in the course
of normal playing, tumbling around on the floor or yard, or being held too firmly. One adult
was routinely carried in the owner's pocket and caught a leg on the pocket, breaking it from
relatively minor force.

Often a 'teacup' dog's mouth is simply not big enough to accommodate all it's adult teeth
and problems arise with crowded teeth, deteriorating adult teeth, etc.

Internal organs may not be fully or adequately developed.

One of the biggest problems with any tiny is that they expend so much energy simply trying
to keep their own body temperature normal, that they can't consume enough calories to fuel
their own body and essentially starve to death despite proper feeding. They require careful
care and monitoring because they often simply can't maintain a healthy body temperature.

Tinies may have problems regulating their own blood sugar.

A simple case of diarrhea can kill a teacup since it dehydrates so quickly, and will most likely
cost a minimum of a trip to the vet.

It is not uncommon for a teacup to die at a very young age, even with an owner who takes the
best of care. (Of course those that make a living selling these dogs aren't too bothered
since this certainly opens up the market for them to sell you another one!).

~Small size equals big purchase price

Just in case the risks aren't enough, the final insult is the exceptionally high prices that are
often tagged on these diminutive babies. Dubbed "designer dogs", their price tags are
typically FAR in excess of a price of a normal, healthy, well bred puppy from a reputable
breeder. Some sellers require hefty deposits that equal the entire costs of another puppy!
It is not uncommon to see price tags in the $2000.00-$3000.00 range.

doublecreekkennel.com http://www.doublecreekkennel.com/teacups.html


food for thought ....

kerrysgold

my guess is yeas wudn no a cross bred if t jumpd up and bit yeas in de ass go somewere else and play

what on earth is that supposed to say O.O

anyway, this thread just makes for brain rot. There is no point in trying to argue with people who are completely blind to the truth/facts and have their own idea about everything.

and yeah, agree with you peasant but sure it's better than idiots breeding eh? (in more ways than one lol )

shinners007

my guess is yeas wudn no a cross bred if t jumpd up and bit yeas in de ass go somewere else and play

Was that reply aimed towards me?? If so then you would be very wrong. Ive rescued and rehomed plenty of cross breeds as well as pedigrees which lets not forget are in rescues/pounds also. Plus that ststement does make you sound very childish no offense intended, everyone is entilted to have a say on here whether other agree with it or not.

anyway, this thread just makes for brain rot. There is no point in trying to argue with people who are completely blind to the truth/facts and have their own idea about everything.

-- maybe you should try taking your own advice their :D

and yeah, agree with you peasant but sure it's better than idiots breeding eh? (in more ways than one lol )

Are you suggesting people are idiots for breeding dogs? Does that mean people who rescue these dogs that sometimes result in needing rehoming are idiots too? Gosh you really are self centered.

Peasant I did agree with you also, however where we differ is i think, is that i believe that testing animals before breeding improves a breed not in terms of a standard devised by judges years ago but through health status of the animals. Also i believe we have discussed that previously on another thread.

At the end of the day, i dont agree with people breeding their pets who have bothered to spend the time and money themselves researching, testing an animal before breeding them.

Also kerrysgold a question for you. Do you think there is any reputable breeders in Ireland? ANd what makes them reputable - and please omit "show standard" from it if you could.

bigpinkelephant

shinners007 wrote: »

Was that reply aimed towards me?? If so then you would be very wrong. Ive rescued and rehomed plenty of cross breeds as well as pedigrees which lets not forget are in rescues/pounds also. Plus that ststement does make you sound very childish no offense intended, everyone is entilted to have a say on here whether other agree with it or not.

-- maybe you should try taking your own advice their :D

Are you suggesting people are idiots for breeding dogs? Does that mean people who rescue these dogs that sometimes result in needing rehoming are idiots too? Gosh you really are self centered.

Peasant I did agree with you also, however where we differ is i think, is that i believe that testing animals before breeding improves a breed not in terms of a standard devised by judges years ago but through health status of the animals. Also i believe we have discussed that previously on another thread.

At the end of the day, i dont agree with people breeding their pets who have bothered to spend the time and money themselves researching, testing an animal before breeding them.

Also kerrysgold a question for you. Do you think there is any reputable breeders in Ireland? ANd what makes them reputable - and please omit "show standard" from it if you could.

Well said Shinners!

carwash_2006

I know one guy that is a very reputable breeder.

He produces a litter once every 3 years, he always has a list of people looking for a dog off him at least 3 times as long as any potential litter. He refuses to charge anyone for the pups because he feels that if he takes money off the people that they will be more likely to feel that they can do what they want with the dog if their circumstances change and they can't keep it. He makes them promise that in those circumstances the dog will be returned to him.

His dogs are not kennel club registered, the dogs he breeds are not a kennel club recognised breed, but between himself and another guy they know the history of every dog in the line going back over a hundred years. Every dog is vet checked before breeding.

bigpinkelephant

carwash_2006 wrote: »

I know one guy that is a very reputable breeder.

He produces a litter once every 3 years, he always has a list of people looking for a dog off him at least 3 times as long as any potential litter. He refuses to charge anyone for the pups because he feels that if he takes money off the people that they will be more likely to feel that they can do what they want with the dog if their circumstances change and they can't keep it. He makes them promise that in those circumstances the dog will be returned to him.

His dogs are not kennel club registered, the dogs he breeds are not a kennel club recognised breed, but between himself and another guy they know the history of every dog in the line going back over a hundred years. Every dog is vet checked before breeding.

Unfortunately it seems to some people around here that if the dogs aren't up to the all-important holy words of the Breed Standard then he is nothing but a scumbag...

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a dog from him and neither would a lot of people but our opinions aren't important... :rolleyes: