Vaccines - Now my daughter won't be getting the vaccine

nesf

tallaght01 wrote: »

I take your point, but I do have some problems with the concept of forcibly medicating people.

Same here but my main problem is that most people aren't in a position to make an informed decision on it since they have no scientific or medical training. For instances where it doesn't adversely effect others, let them choose, but where things like herd immunity is at stake I don't think it's as clear.

Capt'n Midnight

World population in 1900 was 1,650 million.
Smallpox killed 300 million people in the 20th century.

Vaccination has now eradicated smallpox. And no one now needs to be vaccinate against a disease that no longer exists.

Rubella Measles and Mumps are human only diseases, if we vaccinated everyone now then future generations would not need to worry about the disease of the vaccine.

DrIndy

This should be in the conspiracy forum.

eth0_

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Yeah, and you look at the articles I have linked. The flu vaccine is useless.

You clearly know zip about the flu vaccine. It is not to PREVENT the flu - that would be next to impossible - it is to reduce the severity of the flu, to reduce the number of deaths in the elderly and very young.

norrie rugger

ZYX wrote: »

Flu vaccine works on the flu but not on colds. Most people think flu and cold are the same thing. I have never had flu in my life, neither has my wife, children or siblings. The majority of people on this site have probably never had the flu. Basic symptoms of flu are feeling like death, wishing you were dead, saying things like "I have never been so ill in my life". Flu tends to last 3-4 weeks.

Been there, done that!!!

christ, that was a horrible time.
Sweats, shakes, pain in every joint, could not move. Felt roasting but take the sheets off immediately freezing. I just am glad tha tthe body forgets most pains it has, all I can really remember is the fact that I knew that I was buggered royally

norrie rugger

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html

So a drama is created. The government uses reverse psychology on the people. We can't afford a cancer vaccine scheme for all young females. Of course the people cry out.

Well I won't ever willingly take any vaccine, with justification as the link will show.

I just love the way that people are willing to listen to some quack with "Real Life" examples.

Of course, Ignore all of us who have dedicated years of our life to reading about, studying, experimenting and, in a lot of cases here, treating viruses.
Ignore proven scientific methods, based on a single paper that has been torn to shreds experimentally.
Lets all go back to chewing leaves, for they are great at healing us. Ignore that we have taken that leaf, examined it, found the healing compound in it and purified it to maximise its potency.
Lets ignore the millions of people saved to date due to Smallpox vaccine (even if I have great reservations, in giving Jennings any admiration).
The millions of people no longer crippled by polio.

Nope, some new age person has "discovered" that crystals bury into subspace to release the "awsome power of the Nth dimension" to heal everything from ingrown toenails to superbugs.

Grow up, read some balanced articles on topics, stop listening to every anti-establishment quack out there and make an informed decision

Mr. Incognito

OP has to be a troll.

How can you counteract thousands of studies, experiences and proven results with two linked articles from notorious conspiracy websites.

Do you even understand with a vacination is? It's a weakened from of the virus that your body can produce antobodies to fight. In effect you are making yourself sick to a weakened infection so that your body has the tools to fight a stronger infection. There are drug companies shipping versions of the avian flu, right now as vacinnations against it. These vacinnations are expensive as they had to research a method of gestating the flu. The normal procedures are to incubate the flu in bird eggs but the avian flu killed them. The breakthrough was genetically modifing the flu so that it did not kill the eggs it was gestating in.

As a parent your paranoia is disturbing, not that you would mistreat your children but in your niavety you actually think that you are protecting them. I implore you to so some research, real research, not on these crazy websites into vacinnations and then google the 1918 avian flu that pretty much wiped out a huge chunk of the worlds population. If you genuinely care about your daughter you will want to do what's best for her.

Capt'n Midnight

Thanks to vaccination Polio is nearly gone

http://www.polioeradication.org/history.asp Holland had cases after places like Haiti , Bolivia eradicated it. Even "failed states" have eradicated polio.

1995
* Cease-fires are negotiated in Afghanistan (for the third consecutive year) to allow children to be immunized during National Immunization Days.

1992 - 1993
* A polio outbreak in the Netherlands, among a group who refuse to be immunized for religious reasons, proves that imported poliovirus still constitutes a threat wherever immunity levels are low.
* The virus spreads to Canada.

1991
* The last indigenous case of polio occurs in the Americas in September. He is a three-year old boy called Luis Fermin Tenorio living in Junin, Northern Peru.

http://www.polioeradication.org/content/general/current_monthly_sitrep.asp

Polio eradication will only succeed if the necessary funds are made available, and with strong political commitment in polio-affected countries. More than 10 million children will be paralysed in the next 40 years if the world fails to capitalize on its >US$5 billion global investment in eradication.

Make that more than 10 million children will be paralysed if we allow people to go un-vaccinated for selfish reasons.


Measles is now gone in the Americas, but ...
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm57e501a1.htm

Even after elimination of endemic transmission in 2000, imported measles has continued to create a substantial U.S. public health burden; of the 501 measles cases reported during 2000--2007, one in four patients was hospitalized, and one in 250 died.

Thus far in 2008, five U.S. residents and five visitors have been documented as acquiring measles abroad. Of these 10 persons, nine acquired measles in the WHO European Region.

Dr Galen

anyone else notice the increase in quackery we've had on here lately?

nesf

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

OP has to be a troll.

No unfortunately there are people out there that have faith against all reasonable argument. It's an annoying facet of human nature to say the least.

sam34

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

anyone else notice the increase in quackery we've had on here lately?

they usually disappear once their links are shown to be rubbish and they are asked for proper proof.

if people can back up their claims with reliable, validated evidence, then i think its great to see this place becoming more diverse.

however, when its just snake oil bulls**t, i think they should be sent packing.

samson09

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html

So a drama is created. The government uses reverse psychology on the people. We can't afford a cancer vaccine scheme for all young females. Of course the people cry out.

Well I won't ever willingly take any vaccine, with justification as the link will show.

Jonny,

I know you are right and I know how it feels like your banging your head against a brick wall. You have to remember that people have been literally brainwashed into believing everything that they are told by doctors, scientists and even government. It is beyond some people (especially older people) to change how they view the world around them. All you can do is try and show people the truth, if they cant see it thats not your fault.

You can lead a horse to water....

taram

samson09 wrote: »

Jonny,

I know you are right and I know how it feels like your banging your head against a brick wall. You have to remember that people have been literally brainwashed into believing everything that they are told by doctors, scientists and even government. It is beyond some people (especially older people) to change how they view the world around them. All you can do is try and show people the truth, if they cant see it thats not your fault.

You can lead a horse to water....

Well I'm not old, I'm 23. I believe what I've seen with my own eyes, and if the science is reproduced by reputable sources in reputable journals, I'll believe it too, as it can be reproduced by myself if I had the training and money, therefore the truth. Can the quack science say that? Would bet everything on a no. Government I'm skeptical of, and rightly so though

People can believe what the hell they want, but if your child gave my sister (unable to vaccinated) measles because you refused to immunise your child due to a dodgy webpage saying not to and she was seriously damaged or killed by it, I honestly don't know what I'd do due to my anger. Vaccinations don't affect one person, they affect everyone that person is in contact with.

Dig a tiny bit into anyone's history and they'll say how one of the many diseases we have vaccines for affected their family or friends when they weren't vaccinated. Worse I had as a child was chicken pox, and I'm grateful for it.

samson09

taram wrote: »

Well I'm not old, I'm 23. I believe what I've seen with my own eyes, and if the science is reproduced by reputable sources in reputable journals, I'll believe it too, as it can be reproduced by myself if I had the training and money, therefore the truth. Can the quack science say that? Would bet everything on a no. Government I'm skeptical of, and rightly so though

People can believe what the hell they want, but if your child gave my sister (unable to vaccinated) measles because you refused to immunise your child due to a dodgy webpage saying not to and she was seriously damaged or killed by it, I honestly don't know what I'd do due to my anger. Vaccinations don't affect one person, they affect everyone that person is in contact with.

Dig a tiny bit into anyone's history and they'll say how one of the many diseases we have vaccines for affected their family or friends when they weren't vaccinated. Worse I had as a child was chicken pox, and I'm grateful for it.

You obviously have no idea what is happening now do you? Could you even consider for one moment that you are wrong? I dont have to time argue with you, so keep believing whatever you want. No skin off my nose buddy.

taram

samson09 wrote: »

You obviously have no idea what is happening now do you? Could you even consider for one moment that you are wrong? I dont have to time argue with you, so keep believing whatever you want. No skin off my nose buddy.

I am often wrong, so can consider that quite easily. But what exactly is happening that the world at large is ignorant to? Hmm?

samson09

taram wrote: »

I am often wrong, so can consider that quite easily. But what exactly is happening that the world at large is ignorant to? Hmm?

We are being lied to since the day we were born. Ok, I know you think this is B.S. but just hold on for a second. To illustrate my argument, consider what happened in New York On Sep.11. Bin Laden arranged for planes to fly into World Trade Centre right? Hold that thought and now go to you tube and search for the following: Zeitgeist 9/11.

Unless you are totally incapable of indepenent thought you will see where this is going. Well?

sam34

conspiracy theories is that way

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sam34

samson09 wrote: »

I dont have to time argue with you, so keep believing whatever you want. No skin off my nose buddy.

excellent argument, btw :rolleyes:

taram

samson09 wrote: »

We are being lied to since the day we were born. Ok, I know you think this is B.S. but just hold on for a second. To illustrate my argument, consider what happened in New York On Sep.11. Bin Laden arranged for planes to fly into World Trade Centre right? Hold that thought and now go to you tube and search for the following: Zeitgeist 9/11.

Unless you are totally incapable of indepenent thought you will see where this is going. Well?

I've read a good bit about that, and am highly suspicious about the US government's actions, but already declared my skepticism for the government 4 posts ago But I saw your post on cervical cancer vaccines and I don't agree with mandatory vaccination for that, I do for those diseases that would be rampant all over society on and off if not for vaccination. The science is there to see how it affects those who get it, and those who don't, you can recreate those results, and see the proof for yourself. I used to immunise oranges (long story) and the difference in the crops was frightening, just one infected orange being accidently left into a untreated batch often meant the batch was wiped out. Now apply this to my own health and the health of those I love, I'll pick tried and proven vaccinations.

norrie rugger

ok 11/9 (I hate the American way of dates) has raised its ugly head and Zeitgeist has been mentioned.

Really would hope that this thread is deleted/locked or moved to the quack forum.

All of us with Science and Medical backgrounds are part of Da Man. We are brainwashing the ignorant public. Regardless of the fact that we all are vaccinated and have/intend to have our kids vaccinated.

tallaght01

norrie rugger wrote: »

ok 11/9 (I hate the American way of dates) has raised its ugly head and Zeitgeist has been mentioned.

Really would hope that this thread is deleted/locked or moved to the quack forum.

All of us with Science and Medical backgrounds are part of Da Man. We are brainwashing the ignorant public. Regardless of the fact that we all are vaccinated and have/intend to have our kids vaccinated.

The worst thing you can do with people who have poorly informed views is further isolate them.

I'm happy to leave things here, where we can at least keep an eye on the misinformation. Imagine how this would snowball in the conspiracy theories forum.

We can't just surround ourselves with people who agree with us, but I take the point that there has to be a line.

norrie rugger

tallaght01 wrote: »

The worst thing you can do with people who have poorly informed views is further isolate them.

I'm happy to leave things here, where we can at least keep an eye on the misinformation. Imagine how this would snowball in the conspiracy theories forum.

We can't just surround ourselves with people who agree with us, but I take the point that there has to be a line.

Sorry,
Should have made it a bit clearer. I have no problem in trying to educate people, as to why I follow a particular line.

What I can not stand is the people who will counter actual evidence with random "look at the twin towers maaaaaaannn" and the such.
These people are either trolling or are wearing tin foil hats and can not be reasoned with

Capt'n Midnight

norrie rugger wrote: »

ok 11/9 (I hate the American way of dates) has raised its ugly head and Zeitgeist has been mentioned.

Don't worry it's just a variation on Godwin.


For some vaccines the biggest cost isn't the vaccine, it's the insurance in case people try to sue.

Figures for the USA - the country with the most lawyers
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071113165636.htm

For eight diseases for which a vaccine was licensed or recommended prior to 1980, the comparison of the period before national vaccination recommendations vs. the 2006 number of reported cases shows greater than 99 percent declines in the number of cases for diphtheria (100 percent), measles (99.9 percent), paralytic poliomyelitis (100 percent), rubella (99.9 percent), congenital rubella syndrome (99.3 percent), and smallpox (100 percent). Smallpox has been eradicated worldwide, and endemic transmission of poliovirus, measles virus, and rubella virus has been eliminated in the United States. T

here were no reported deaths due to diphtheria, measles, mumps, paralytic poliomyelitis, or rubella; deaths due to congenital rubella syndrome are not reported. The decline in cases of mumps was 95.9 percent, of tetanus 92.9 percent, and of pertussis 92.2 percent. The decline in tetanus deaths was 99.2 percent and in pertussis deaths 99.3 percent. Whooping cough

For five diseases for which a vaccine was licensed or recommended after 1980 but before 2005, cases of invasive Hib disease declined 99.8 percent or greater and deaths declined 99.5 percent or greater; for hepatitis A, reduction in cases was 87.0 percent, deaths 86.9 percent; a decrease of 80.1 percent in cases and 80.2 percent in deaths for acute hepatitis B; a decline of 34.1 percent in cases and 25.4 percent in deaths for invasive pneumococcal disease; and a reduction of 85.0 percent in cases and 81.9 percent in deaths for varicella. Hospitalizations declined by 87.0 percent for hepatitis A, 80.1 percent for acute hepatitis B, and 88.0 percent for varicella.

"The number of cases of most vaccine-preventable diseases is at an all-time low; hospitalizations and deaths from vaccine-preventable diseases have also shown striking decreases.

Should the VHI/Bupa offer discounts to people who have been vaccinated / load premiums for those that haven't ?

Should people who reject a vaccination be liable to be sued for by anyone they infect or by the state for costs over and above hospitalisation , like having to vaccinate those they have been in contact / loss of earnings from reduced tourism.

samson09

Look, I'm not going to get involved in a who's right/who's wrong type debate that could possibly go on for weeks. In my opinion, based on what I have read, I have come to the conclusion that vaccines do more harm than good. I will never vaccinate myself, my children or even my pets again. Instead I will continue to provide myself with the proper foods and supplements such as Echinacea and zinc to keep my immune system function at an optimal level.

May I add that I am not a complete idiot either. I hold a PhD in nutritional medicine and have spent countless hours going through all the facts. My opinion was not formed after reading one or two articles on the internet like some of you may think. A good source of information is naturalnews.com, I have personally checked all of the references on any HPV vaccine related story and they ALL check out.

If you are interested in protecting your own health you might read the following article:

http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_HPV_Vaccine_0.html

If you dont even have the decency to flick through this before you comment on it, well....don't bother commenting. If you read it and are still not convinced then I guess that we will have to respect each others opinions. Please remember that I have absolutely nothing to gain by posting info. such as this. It is done purely out of my concern for others and if I was unsure about anything I was saying, I wouldn't say it.

994

samson09 wrote: »

I have come to the conclusion that vaccines do more harm than good. I will never vaccinate myself, my children or even my pets again.

Smallpox, 20th century: 300–500 million deaths
Smallpox, 21st century: Zero deaths

Thank God they took care of that before the Internet was invented.

Spear

samson09 wrote: »

I hold a PhD in nutritional medicine

From what university?

samson09

994 wrote: »

Smallpox, 20th century: 300–500 million deaths
Smallpox, 21st century: Zero deaths

Thank God they took care of that before the Internet was invented.

Thank God there's still a few independent thinkers out there...

http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html

AtomicHorror

samson09 wrote: »

Look, I'm not going to get involved in a who's right/who's wrong type debate that could possibly go on for weeks. In my opinion, based on what I have read, I have come to the conclusion that vaccines do more harm than good.

Primary papers on this? Large scale trials? Anything else is worthless, your opinion included.

samson09 wrote: »

will never vaccinate myself, my children or even my pets again. Instead I will continue to provide myself with the proper foods and supplements such as Echinacea and zinc to keep my immune system function at an optimal level.

Show me the data which demonstrates that these work to prevent viral infections. Large scale randomised trials or nothing.

samson09 wrote: »

May I add that I am not a complete idiot either. I hold a PhD in nutritional medicine and have spent countless hours going through all the facts.

I know plenty of idiots who also have PhDs. Where did you get that PhD., was it by primary research, is it accredited and is nutritional medicine a codeword for naturopathy? Frankly, your qualification would be irrelevant even if it was a PhD. in viral immunology. The evidence is what counts.

samson09 wrote: »

My opinion was not formed after reading one or two articles on the internet like some of you may think. A good source of information is naturalnews.com,

Terrible website. Give us primary sources please.

samson09 wrote: »

I have personally checked all of the references on any HPV vaccine related story and they ALL check out.

When you say they all check out, what does that actually mean? They were peer reviewed? Does that mean they used adequate controls? No. Does it mean they randomised properly? Again no? Does it mean the study size was significant? Once again no. Most critically, referring to a peer-reviewed paper doesn't mean that it actually supports your contention. Did you fully read all sources and assess what hypotheses were actually confirmed?

samson09 wrote: »

If you are interested in protecting your own health you might read the following article:

http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_HPV_Vaccine_0.html

If you dont even have the decency to flick through this before you comment on it, well....don't bother commenting. If you read it and are still not convinced then I guess that we will have to respect each others opinions.

You claim to have a science qualification. In what world does a scientist respect anyone's opinion?

samson09 wrote: »

Please remember that I have absolutely nothing to gain by posting info. such as this. It is done purely out of my concern for others and if I was unsure about anything I was saying, I wouldn't say it.

How sure are you? Because lives hang in the balance and poor advice kills. You'd want to have masses of really good data and I don't see you sharing it with us.

samson09 wrote: »

I know you are right and I know how it feels like your banging your head against a brick wall. You have to remember that people have been literally brainwashed into believing everything that they are told by doctors, scientists and even government.

If you suppose that we can be brainwashed then surely so can you? Tell me, how exactly have you established that your "alternative" is actually anything of the sort? And where's the evidence of brainwashing? Or the motive, for that matter?

Capt'n Midnight

Yet again mumps in third level education. It was on the RTE news today.
DKIT http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055503218

26 November 2008 http://www.rte.ie/tv/theafternoonshow/2008/1126/health661.html

So far in 2008 there have been 927 reported cases of mumps compared to 142 in 2007 (6 times as many!).

Oh yeah, there is NO effective treatment for most of the diseases we vaccinate against, the best that can be done is treat the symptoms.

Dr Galen

samson09 wrote: »

Look, I'm not going to get involved in a who's right/who's wrong type debate that could possibly go on for weeks. In my opinion, based on what I have read, I have come to the conclusion that vaccines do more harm than good. I will never vaccinate myself, my children or even my pets again. Instead I will continue to provide myself with the proper foods and supplements such as Echinacea and zinc to keep my immune system function at an optimal level.

May I add that I am not a complete idiot either. I hold a PhD in nutritional medicine and have spent countless hours going through all the facts. My opinion was not formed after reading one or two articles on the internet like some of you may think. A good source of information is naturalnews.com, I have personally checked all of the references on any HPV vaccine related story and they ALL check out.

If you are interested in protecting your own health you might read the following article:

http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_HPV_Vaccine_0.html

If you dont even have the decency to flick through this before you comment on it, well....don't bother commenting. If you read it and are still not convinced then I guess that we will have to respect each others opinions. Please remember that I have absolutely nothing to gain by posting info. such as this. It is done purely out of my concern for others and if I was unsure about anything I was saying, I wouldn't say it.

and you claim that some of us have been brainwashed? Fcuk me.....someone crack out Mulder and Scully......

the FDA says, "The HPV DNA test is not intended to substitute for regular Pap screening. Nor is it intended to screen women under 30 who have normal Pap tests. Although the rate of HPV infection in this group is high, most infections are short-lived and not associated with cervical cancer."

and your "scientific website says...

In other words, HPV infections do not cause cervical cancer! Remember, the entire push for mandatory HPV vaccinations of young girls across the country has been the urgent call to "save" these young girls from cervical cancer. The vaccine push has been about "savings lives." But as these documents clearly reveal, HPV is no threat to the lives of young girls.

now maybe I'm missing something, but your website seems to be misreading what the FDA is saying. Yep the FDA say MOST infctions sort themselves out and aren't associated with cervical cancer, but importantly the FDA does not say that there is NO link, as these crackpots seem to be suggesting.

This is only one example of the semantic word play that goes on out there in the world of keeping it natural.

The sad thing for me is that I also think that a lot of "alternative" type therapies can work very well. I've seen excellent results with manuka honey based woundcare products, and have read peer reviewed studies backing up what I see, same with products based on silver. Witchhazel has been shown to be great as a skin care product. I could go on........but when people like you crack out ****e like this your actually discrediting the whole arena.

Sheesh..........this place is getting worse than the religious forums on here....