All TV channels missing, but radio is fine - any ideas?

Charlie-Bravo

This is not the update we are looking for for our LZD81 and PZ81...some of you already have it...

...there is an update available through Freesat for these Pannies running since the 22nd May.

Company Models Version PNR Start End
Humax FOXSAT-HD 1.00.15 N 07-10-2008 Open
Freesat TECHNISAT HD STB product NA N 20-02-2009 Open
Alba GOODMANS, BUSH, GRUNDIG SD & HD products SD 1.4.25 HD1.5.46 N 15-04-2009 Open
Panasonic LZD81B and PZ81B v2.602 v1.616 R 22-05-2009 Open


http://www.dtg.org.uk/industry/download_schedule.php

Hopefully there is a future change which will allow a firmware fix for our DTT problem.

Hissing Sideban

keithoh wrote: »

The data attached is for the Mt. Leinster transmissions from a TH46PZ81B

Unzip the file and copy the contents onto a SD card and insert into a PZ81B TV

Use password 4851 when prompted

Attachment not found.

Ta Keith, worked a treat!

Now to write the letter to Panasonic

keithoh

Hissing Sideban wrote: »

Ta Keith, worked a treat!

Now to write the letter to Panasonic

No problem, glad you've got your channels back

antomack

Anyone out there got a file for Cairn Hill to use on my 42PZ81

Ninjakettle

+1 Would appreciate the Cairn Hill one too.

Down Exile

Tomdub

I downloaded the file for your 32LZD81 tv and put the data into my 37LZD81 which worked perfectly last week, DTT was restored. On Wednesday night I thought that I would try to tune in the ITV HD channel for the Champions League Final, I got the frequency from somewhere.

I went into the Other Satellite Services menu and entered the frequency and hit scan. This came up with a lot of channels, but not ITV HD. (by the way, can anybody else get the ITV HD channel to work, I know that is supposed to appear sometimes if you press the red button, but I have had no success so far).

I went back to DTT and the 4 channels were gone, all I get is "No signal"! After the match I reloaded your data from the SD card but no change. I then went back to Shipping Condition and then reloaded your data, but again no DTT.

The only thing that I noticed was that the software version is 2602-10100 which would seem to agree with another post re Engineering Channel over-air download schedule updates where the Panasonic LZD81B had a software update to v2.602 on the 22nd May.

When I go to DTT and channel 54 the signal strength is good, but the quality is zero which is different to what it used to be before. Does you 32LZD81 still work OK? Do you have the same software version as myself.

Thanks in anticipation

stephene

Down Exile wrote: »

Tomdub
On Wednesday night I thought that I would try to tune in the ITV HD channel for the Champions League Final, I got the frequency from somewhere.

If you entered a NI postcode in the Freesat setup you will have UTV at channel 103 and you won't have access to the ITV-HD red button.
However, if you go to channel 977, which is ITV1 London, the red button will pop up there fine - when there is an HD programme on of course

Stephen.

bob11

Down Exile ...

It may not be your TV,

RTE seem to be doing some changes at the moment, I lost all my channels from Three Rock 2 days ago, still not back. Other people have had problems as well, More discussion here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055350262&page=14

Aepos

Three Rock DVB fine with me all week. (FreeSat Panny)

Ae

Fat_Fingers

bob11 wrote: »

Down Exile ...

It may not be your TV,

RTE seem to be doing some changes at the moment, I lost all my channels from Three Rock 2 days ago, still not back. Other people have had problems as well, More discussion here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055350262&page=14

Yes, i noticed 2 days ago it was all gone from Three Rock, It was on channel 54 today i scanned all frequencies and found it all. They stopped broadcasting on 54 and moved to 61 so all channels are back now. I have RTE1, RTE2, TV3 , TNG and RTE Test , haven't had RTE Test channel before. Nothing on it, just a color bars...

The_Conductor

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

Yes, i noticed 2 days ago it was all gone from Three Rock, It was on channel 54 today i scanned all frequencies and found it all. They stopped broadcasting on 54 and moved to 61 so all channels are back now. I have RTE1, RTE2, TV3 , TNG and RTE Test , haven't had RTE Test channel before. Nothing on it, just a color bars...

Cool- I'll do a rescan when I get home

Charlie-Bravo

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

They stopped broadcasting on 54 and moved to 61 so all channels...

If the channels are on 61 rather than 54, would the channel data file be rendered useless to us and leave us Panny owners with no service at all?? Or have they reverted back to 0x01?

Request for DTT channel data file for Greystones relay (Ch 52) if anyone has a LZD81 - Thanks

yayamark

Guys i have a Panny G10B and am unsure if i can recieve irish DTT and am unsure how to recieve it

Can anyone enlighten me? From reading your posts there seems to be problems with yer signals.

I can recieve the freesat no problem but would like to try out the dtt service.

Apogee

The G10B is from the new line of Panasonic Freesat models, so you may or may not encounter the problems reported by other Panasonic owners on this thread. You need to specify your location in order to determine the necessary scan frequency.

The_Conductor

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

Yes, i noticed 2 days ago it was all gone from Three Rock, It was on channel 54 today i scanned all frequencies and found it all. They stopped broadcasting on 54 and moved to 61 so all channels are back now. I have RTE1, RTE2, TV3 , TNG and RTE Test , haven't had RTE Test channel before. Nothing on it, just a color bars...

I was going to do a rescan on 3Rock yesterday evening- but the original mux is back on (on a lower power), and no rescan necessary. Scan profile indicator shows no additional services.

cnocbui

yayamark wrote: »

Guys i have a Panny G10B and am unsure if i can recieve irish DTT and am unsure how to recieve it

Can anyone enlighten me? From reading your posts there seems to be problems with yer signals.

I can recieve the freesat no problem but would like to try out the dtt service.

Presuming it is not much different from the previous PZ models, you use the TV button on the remote to select DVB, then Menu - Setup - Tuning Menu - Auto Setup

That will scan for new channels. If all you get are radio stations, welcome to the club.

yayamark

Im in Limerick

I tried that scan but nothing comes up

Do i need an aerial/rabbits ears.?

cnocbui

yayamark wrote: »

Im in Limerick

I tried that scan but nothing comes up

Do i need an aerial/rabbits ears.?

You need a UHF antennae and it needs to be pointed at the nearest UHF transmission mast. I am not sure where that would be for your locale, but I'm sure someone else will know.

peking97

Woodcock Hill I would suggest Ch's 41 - 51 Group B Horizontal.

See page 7 here:-
http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/ReceivingDTT.pdf

Tomdub

Down Exile, I've just read your message! My TV's are still receiving all DVB channels from Three Rock on Channel 54. My software version is 2602-10100.
I used a London Postcode ( WC2R OJJ ) for my Freesat and Other Sat channels. ITV1 London is on Freesat Channel 103 and the ITV HD Channel is invoked by pressing the red button when requested onscreen.

GadgetGeek

keithoh wrote: »

The data attached is for the Mt. Leinster transmissions from a TH46PZ81B

Unzip the file and copy the contents onto a SD card and insert into a PZ81B TV

Use password 4851 when prompted

Attachment not found.

Any data for the Spur hill CH 45 transmissions for a TH42PZ81B?

bob11

Hi There,

See attached the latest response from Panasonic ... I'm afraid that this is not going anywhere :

ISSUE RESOLUTION: Dear Mr ******,

Panasonic has received a number of communications from customers residing in the Republic of Ireland concerning the functionality of Freesat and Freeview compliant products. As our customers are aware, Panasonic Freeview product is not sold in the Republic of Ireland. We do, however, market a range of products which are DTT specific to the Republic of Ireland.

Customer queries have primarily been on the capability of these sets to receive the Irish DTT test transmissions. Standard Freeview sets, imported from the UK and Northern Ireland, received the first MPEG2 DTT test transmissions. However, as a consequence of changes to RTE’s direction with regard to test transmissions, we have been aware since mid-April 2009 that this is no longer possible.

Given that we are not directly involved with the testing being carried out by RTE, we cannot offer any formal information regarding testing already carried or, indeed, their future plans.

We would stress that the question of upgrading or altering the specification of these Freeview products in order to enable them to receive the altered DTT signal is more significant than just a software or firmware change, and unfortunately we have no modification available to customers who find themselves in this position. This also applies to any future specification changes that may be requested.

We are aware that a number of entries on various customer forums discuss modification of the firmware. We would stress that action of this nature is entirely at the risk of the customer and Panasonic would neither condone nor enable such an activity for the reasons stated above.

To clarify, the hardware and software on any Freeview compliant products have been designed for operation in the Northern Irish, and mainland UK markets. We are regrettably therefore unable to provide additional support to our customers in the Republic of Ireland who may have purchased these products.

If the users have purchased these units expressly for DTT functionality, and it was marketed to them by the retailer from whom they purchased the unit on this basis alone, we would suggest they contact these retailers to address their issues. We have notified the dealers in the North of Ireland about our opinion on this issue, and the fact that product cannot and should not be sold to customers in Republic of Ireland for Free to Air digital TV reception.

We would further add that Panasonic is not authorised to market Freesat models in the Republic of Ireland, nor to support the operation of the Freesat tuner by way of software or firmware upgrade.

Of course, Panasonic is fully committed to supporting our products marketed specifically for the Republic of Ireland to ensure continued functionality.

We appreciate that this response may cause some disappointment to our customers. However, our position is clear with regard to DTT compliant products in the Republic of Ireland.

Kind Regards
**************
Dealer Support / Correspondence Team
Panasonic UK Ltd

watty

So it's the fault of evil dealers mis-selling.

Charlie-Bravo

In relation to Panasonic's email to Bob11, does anyone here know how difficult it is technically for Panasonic to sort this out?

I am sure in the near future that Freeview in the UK shall be looking to do HD broadcasts....does that mean that these TV's will not work when they decide in the UK to change up to Advanced Television broadcast (0x16)? Otherwise there'll be a heap load of TV's with DTT capabilities for 01(0x01) Digital Television Service broadcasts which won't be able for the 25(0x19) Advanced Codec HD Digital Television Service let alone the 22(0x16) Advanced Codec SD Digital Television Service.

So does anyone here know if a firmware fixed over DTT to these TV's would be possible?

Apogee

astrofluff wrote: »

In relation to Panasonic's email to Bob11, does anyone here know how difficult it is technically for Panasonic to sort this out?

The new Panasonic Irish G10L models correctly scan the channels as reported in this thread. I would imagine that it's highly likely that the UK Freesat G10B series will also scan the channels correctly, but still awaiting cofirmation on that.

netwhizkid

Apogee wrote: »

The new Panasonic Irish G10L models correctly scan the channels as reported in this thread. I would imagine that it's highly likely that the UK Freesat G10B series will also scan the channels correctly, but still awaiting cofirmation on that.

Excellent news that Apogee, I am due one of these soon (hopefully this week) from Panasonic due to their mess up as I reported on this thread. I will update the thread as soon as I receive it and get it working from Mullaghanish.

watty

None of the Panasonic (nor anyone else's) current TV or Setbox can be made to do UK HD DTT as this needs a different tuner head/DSP chip (different Hardware). Not only will UK HD use MPEG4 H.264 AVC, but it will use DVB-t2 modulation. A new, as yet unavailable commercially, set box with HDMI will be needed for UK HD DTT.

netwhizkid

watty wrote: »

None of the Panasonic (nor anyone else's) current TV or Setbox can be made to do UK HD DTT as this needs a different tuner head/DSP chip (different Hardware). Not only will UK HD use MPEG4 H.264 AVC, but it will use DVB-t2 modulation. A new, as yet unavailable commercially, set box with HDMI will be needed for UK HD DTT.

Would this mean then Watty that when the UK launch DVB-T2 receivers that they would not be compatible with the Irish DVB-T MPEG4 signals (and presumably the UK DVB-T FREEVIEW MPEG2 signals)?

Because as these will probably be mass-produced for the UK market it would allow potentially in say a years time to import one of these cheaply for use in Ireland like the current situation where a cheaper SD Freeview box can be got for around £20 now but where are totally incompatible with the yet to launch Irish system.

Sponge Bob

Dunno about a years time, think 2 or 3 I would say .

STB

netwhizkid wrote: »

Would this mean then Watty that when the UK launch DVB-T2 receivers that they would not be compatible with the Irish DVB-T MPEG4 signals (and presumably the UK DVB-T FREEVIEW MPEG2 signals)?

Because as these will probably be mass-produced for the UK market it would allow potentially in say a years time to import one of these cheaply for use in Ireland like the current situation where a cheaper SD Freeview box can be got for around £20 now but where are totally incompatible with the yet to launch Irish system.

No. dvb-t2 mpeg4 boxes would be backward compatible with Irish DTT (ie dvb-t mpeg4). But I wouldnt be depending on it. Those UK DVBT2 boxes boxes will not be mass produced initially anyhow. They will be available for those who wish to receive of a few HD terrestrial channels in the UK (ie in addition to the others that will remain in mpeg2).

watty

An Irish MPEG4 DVB-t or UK Freeview MPEG2 receivers will not work for ANY kind of DVB-t2 service, HD or not.

Just as ALL MPEG4 receivers can do MPEG2 (i.e. Irish receivers will receive Freeview near border), A DVB-t2 receiver will be able to receive existing DVB-t (Freeview MPEG2 or Irish MPEG4).

IN fact the new HD DVB-T2 receivers would be no use if they didn't do Freeview as only a few channels will be HD/DVB-T2 in UK. THe rest will remain as they are.

Such receivers are a few years away from being cheap and when they 1st are in the shops they will be much more expensive than DVB-T MPEG4 as many countries are using MPEG4 and UK will be the first with DVB-T2, I think.

It's likely a receiver (even HD PVR) for Ireland/France/Estonia/NZ/Others will be cheaper than the UK HD DVB-T2 at least 5 years or even longer until DVB-T2 becomes common.

maxg

bob11 wrote: »

Hi There,

See attached the latest response from Panasonic ... I'm afraid that this is not going anywhere :

ISSUE RESOLUTION: Dear Mr ******,
.
.

The same lies as usual.
It looks like the Panasonic staff is not able to understand that the pz81b/lzd81b series have an mpeg2/mpeg4 decoder on board and that the tuner has no affiliation to mpeg decoding.
You should ask them if Panasonic is willing to follow their own declarations:

DVB TH-42PZ81B Declaration of Conformity No. 5263, 9 January 2008
DVB TH-46PZ81B Declaration of Conformity No. 5262, 9 January 2008
DVB TH-50PZ81B Declaration of Conformity No. 5261, 9 January 2008
DVB TX-32LZD81 Declaration of Conformity No. 5755, 23 June 2008
DVB TX-37LZD81 Declaration of Conformity No. 5756, 23 June 2008

The problem is still a incombatibility with the DVB standard.

The channel scan is not willing to accept and store the irish tv channels in the channel list because service type 0x16 in the service description data for the irish channels is not defined in the firmware.

Apogee

maxg wrote: »

DVB TH-42PZ81B Declaration of Conformity No. 5263, 9 January 2008
DVB TH-46PZ81B Declaration of Conformity No. 5262, 9 January 2008
DVB TH-50PZ81B Declaration of Conformity No. 5261, 9 January 2008
DVB TX-32LZD81 Declaration of Conformity No. 5755, 23 June 2008
DVB TX-37LZD81 Declaration of Conformity No. 5756, 23 June 2008

The problem is still a incombatibility with the DVB standard.

The question arises : conformity with what? Which revision of the DVB standard are the PZ81s supposed to be compliant with?

maxg

Apogee wrote: »

The question arises : conformity with what? Which revision of the DVB standard are the PZ81s supposed to be compliant with?

Due to dvb.org Panasonic declared conformity for following standards:

DVB-CI EN 50221 (CENELEC)
R 206 001 (CENELEC)
TS 101 699
DVB-CSA ETR 289
DVB-MPEG TR 102 154
TS 101 154
DVB-S EN 300 421
DVB-S2 EN 302 307
DVB-SI EN 300 468
TR 101 211
DVB-SUB EN 300 743
DVB-T EN 300 744
TR 101 190

Apogee

Can you post the DVB webpage link for this?

maxg

http://www.dvb.org/products_registration/dvb_compliant_products/index.xml

Choose free textsearch and type Panasonic.

Apogee

Hard to know how to interpret that info - there is no reference to the revision number. The DVB-SI standard which lays out the stream flags is 300 468. The newest version v1.10.1, for example, has the "advanced codec" designation, but I've read through older ones and have been unable to find it.

So does DVB conformity mean you must be compliant with the very latest revision, or just whatever revision is current when you file for compliance?

maxg

The version which was valid at the day of declaration is the right one.
I think EN300468 V1.7.1 is the right one. The table for the service type values is the same in v1.7.1 than in v1.10.1 .

Apogee

300 468 Revisions:

v1.10.1 DVB Document A038r5 : April 2009 (Adanced codec flag listed)
V1.9.1 DVB Document A038 Rev. 4 : July 2008 (Adanced codec flag listed)
v1.8.1 DVB Document A038 Rev. 3 : July 2007 (Adanced codec flag listed)
v1.7.1 May 2006 (Advanced codec flag listed)
v.1.6.1 Nov 2004 (Advanced code flag not listed)

So the advanced codec flag has been part of the spec since 2006. Since Panasonic filed their compliance claim in 2008, then it appears they are in breach of the standard.

Apogee

I would think this info considerably strengthens the hand of people who have bought PZ81Bs. As the manufacturer claims DVB compliance, and the advanced codec flag was part of the standard at they time they made that claim, then the TVs were arguably "not fit for purpose" at the time of purchase. It doesn't matter whether they intended the units to be sold only in the UK or not.

Has anyone contacted the European Consumer Centre?
http://www.ecic.ie/

STB

A position I had emphasised earlier in this thread. It would seem clear to me what the root of the problem is, also be aware one Eu designated fix for standards is a immediate fix OTA.

What you must be aware of is that Pani reps have been advocating that they have been following a special UK version of the standard.

This of course is nonsense. I would imagine that technical supports representation of the company should perhaps be brought to the attention of pani Europe and then the parent company in parallel.

Potential untold damage to brand name in my opinion....

watty

It looks like Panasonic messed up but hiding behind the old "grey import" / "Wrong Market" Mantra.

It's perfectly acceptable to make a set for one market (though a bit silly), but you can't then claim compliance you haven't got. That's a defect or false advertising depending on where it has arisen.

skycatcher

Not sure if will do any good but I have raised this issue with BBC NI "on your behalf" consumer radio program. Whether the BBC will care that some of us cant get rte digital is another matter! Do RTE have such a consumer prog?

GadgetGeek

keithoh wrote:

The data attached is for the Mt. Leinster transmissions from a TH46PZ81B

Unzip the file and copy the contents onto a SD card and insert into a PZ81B TV

Use password 4851 when prompted

Attachment 80690

GadgetGeek wrote: »

Any data for the Spur hill CH 45 transmissions for a TH42PZ81B?

Can anyone help me with a data file for Spur Hill Ch 45 or Mullaghanish Ch21 for a Panasonic PZ LZ or can anyone advise if there is a way to edit keithoh's "Mt. Leinster" file.

netwhizkid

Apogee wrote: »

The new Panasonic Irish G10L models correctly scan the channels as reported in this thread. I would imagine that it's highly likely that the UK Freesat G10B series will also scan the channels correctly, but still awaiting cofirmation on that.

I got the Panasonic TX-L32G10L today as a replacement to my TX-32LZ80L and I had a very favourable outcome to the Panny/DTT debacle that I wrote about there. The Soundstore took back the TX-32LZ80L and replaced with the TX-L32G10L at the same price of €700 when the TX-L32G10L RRP is €1000. I also get a free 5 year guarantee from Panasonic as part of a promotion they are running until the end of June.

When I was into the Soundstore there today they had the TV's with DVB and MPEG4 capabilities labels with "Digital Tuner for RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4" and I applaud them highly for it as now whether you are a tech head of slack jawed yokel you will at least know what you are buying and it seems as the retailers will have to do this considering there is no peep from either the BCI, RTE or DCENR on this and when it launches proper there will be alot of angry tv owners who paid big money only to be not DTT ready.

I can also confirm that I have DTT working (almost)* from Mullaghanish and it is tuning in and decoding the MPEG4 picture fine. It bizarrely marks it as Pay tv though, which is I suppose accurate as Panasonic are clearly taking the licence fee into account

*My signal at home is pure crap but this is because I have old low gain aerial not even pointing at Mullaghanish and a low gain amplifier and I get the exact same results with my DTT Receiver at my home location. When I get a new aerial and a proper high gain amplifier it will work fine but at the moment it is highly pixalated and not watchable but the TV has proven it is capable and this was my main concern and it passed in flying colours. DTT does not Auto tune when the TV is first set-up either and must be done after words again no biggy! I am highly impressed with the TV and rigged it up to the Sky+ HD and could not leave the seat as I was clued to BBC HD's South Pacific programme, it was as if I was really swimming with the whales:rolleyes:

Well impressed I am!

slegs

netwhizkid wrote: »

I can also confirm that I have DTT working (almost)* from Mullaghanish and it is tuning in and decoding the MPEG4 picture fine. It bizarrely marks it as Pay tv though, which is I suppose accurate as Panasonic are clearly taking the licence fee into account

This is a setting being broadcast somehow by RTENL as the MVision also marks the channels as Pay TV.

Charlie-Bravo

netwhizkid wrote: »

It bizarrely marks it as Pay tv though, which is I suppose accurate as Panasonic are clearly taking the licence fee into account

Now, I am thinking this whole problem through, and now considering Panny's email as posted above, is there a work around for the problem.

I have been thinking about this 'Pay TV' item. If you were to go for pay TV, be it Sat or DTT, you would stick in a CAM and viewing card in the CI slot. Now, would a CAM and a viewing card unlock the whole problem in this instance?

Or is it still purely a problem with the Panny LZD81/PZ81's that they'll never be able to pick up a 0x16 Advanced TV broadcast?

GadgetGeek

GadgetGeek wrote: »

[/i]



Can anyone help me with a data file for Spur Hill Ch 45 or Mullaghanish Ch21 for a Panasonic PZ LZ or can anyone advise if there is a way to edit keithoh's "Mt. Leinster" file.

If anyone in the Cork City area has a PZ81B and hasn't lost the DTT channels, can you post the data for Spur Hill or Mullaghanish. If your not sure how just contact me by private message.

It would be much appreciated as I have run out of ideas.

As suggested in previous messages we should get a data base for different transmitters and TV's, at least till Panasonic "step up to the plate" with a firmware fix for it's customer base over here (assuming they are concerned with customer loyalty).

Apogee

astrofluff wrote: »

I have been thinking about this 'Pay TV' item. If you were to go for pay TV, be it Sat or DTT, you would stick in a CAM and viewing card in the CI slot. Now, would a CAM and a viewing card unlock the whole problem in this instance?

Or is it still purely a problem with the Panny LZD81/PZ81's that they'll never be able to pick up a 0x16 Advanced TV broadcast?

The encryption flag is a related yet separate issue from the advanced codec flag.

RTÉNL are transmitting the channels with the encrypted flag turned to 'on' despite the fact the channels are actually unencrypted. The G10, along with other TVs and receivers, see the 'on' flag and assume the channels are encrypted. Some receivers may even blank the screen. One reason why RTÉNL might be turning on the encrypted flag is to facilitate TVs with MPEG2 hardware - the encypted flag allows those people to route the stream through a Neotion CAM for "decryption" i.e. conversion from MPEG4->MPEG2.

However, this approach is useless with the PZ81s as they never store the channels to begin with, so the use of the Neotion CAM never arises.

Solutions for the PZ81Bs:
1) Continue uploading the channel paramters by USB and hope and pray RTÉNL don't change the PIDs.
2) Get Panasonic to issue a channel editor
3) Get Panasonic to fix the firmware and make it DVB compliant like the G10
4) Get Panasonic to replace your PZ81 with a G10

maxg

astrofluff wrote: »

Now, I am thinking this whole problem through, and now considering Panny's email as posted above, is there a work around for the problem.

I have been thinking about this 'Pay TV' item. If you were to go for pay TV, be it Sat or DTT, you would stick in a CAM and viewing card in the CI slot. Now, would a CAM and a viewing card unlock the whole problem in this instance?

Or is it still purely a problem with the Panny LZD81/PZ81's that they'll never be able to pick up a 0x16 Advanced TV broadcast?

The problem is still the channel scan procedure which is not willing to store channels with service type 0x16. If you cannnot select a channel from the channel list it doesn't matter if the channel is scrambeled or not or if the channel is paytv or not or if the channel is flagged as scrambled but being broadcast free to the air.